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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Carbon composite flywheels decompose in a ball of fluff basically. No shrapnel. They originally developed them for use in Postal Service jeeps back in the 70s. That's useful. There must be a trade-off though, what are they, 80% less dense or something?
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Jul 25, 2014 07:23
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slap me silly posted:That's useful. There must be a trade-off though, what are they, 80% less dense or something? Yeah, but it's in a vacuum, suspended by fuckin magnets, so it can run at insane RPMs. The flywheel in the 911 hybrid racing car was like 36,000 RPM, in a race car bouncing up and down a race track.
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Jul 25, 2014 07:37
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Also, flywheels can last loving decades. There are flywheel UPS units in a building my father works at that haven't been opened internally since the 80's, and they still don't make much, if any, mechanical noise. Only things to go wrong on them are ancillary electronics.
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Jul 25, 2014 07:40
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I feel like a carbon fiber composite flywheel shell with an interior layer of very finely powdered, sintered lead (or just lead in the composite) would be a good tradeoff there.
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Jul 25, 2014 08:04
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I remember reading about a UPS/generator that used a huge flywheel that was basically a coiled clock spring, bound into a single disc. The idea was that if anything went wrong with it, instead of turning into a shrapnel bomb, there would be the loudest 'SPOING!' in the history of sound and you'd instantly have a chamber filled with tightly twisted up metal.
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Jul 25, 2014 08:37
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Ground straps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzLoeIfc5-U
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Jul 25, 2014 10:22
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Mr. Despair posted:What's the benefit of having a flywheel based UPS? Faster response time or more output for the physical UPS size? Reaction time mostly. Generators take a few seconds to start and reach peak power output so the flywheels are used to cover the gap while they start.
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Jul 25, 2014 12:31
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Reaction time is about the same. Lead acid batteries kick in basically instantly as well. The two big benefits are maintenance and power to maintain the plant. I want to say the flywheels have a 20 year service life or are designed to be maintenance free for 20 years. Really reaching back to remember this buy I want to say that to maintain the flywheel at full speed they were showing somewhere around an amp or two @ 408v.
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Jul 25, 2014 13:23
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FatCow posted:Reaction time is about the same. Lead acid batteries kick in basically instantly as well. The two big benefits are maintenance and power to maintain the plant. I want to say the flywheels have a 20 year service life or are designed to be maintenance free for 20 years. Really reaching back to remember this buy I want to say that to maintain the flywheel at full speed they were showing somewhere around an amp or two @ 408v. That's a cost of 175k amp hours to keep it spinning for 20 years.
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Jul 25, 2014 14:15
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And the rest of the facility would have pulled around 200GvA. (Assumes 3MW draw 12 hours a day at a pf of 1)
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Jul 25, 2014 14:50
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Yeah at that point that's a rounding error. The metering equipment may not even be accurate enough to register the difference. Probably isn't, in fact, because 175k out of 200G is slightly less than 1ppm.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:34
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FatCow posted:I was once in a room with enough flywheel UPSs (Flywheels hooked to generators) to power an 11MW datacenter for 16 seconds. I was fairly terrified. I'm not entirely sure my city is aware of how much mechanical energy is being stored in that building. I've been in a room full of these, and it's a weird feeling. It's almost like being next to a freight locomotive but without being able to see or hear it, you just get a sense that there's a huge amount of energy and motion around you.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:03
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FatCow posted:Reaction time is about the same. Lead acid batteries kick in basically instantly as well. The two big benefits are maintenance and power to maintain the plant. I want to say the flywheels have a 20 year service life or are designed to be maintenance free for 20 years. Really reaching back to remember this buy I want to say that to maintain the flywheel at full speed they were showing somewhere around an amp or two @ 408v. We have Hitec QPSes in one of the facilities I'm at. Reaction time is near enough to be instant.....there are no battery backups on site. If there were straight diesel generators there would have to be batteries to account for switchover time. With the QPSes, the clutch gets dumped on power outage and is used to start the diesel. There is no transfer per se, as everything is being run off the alternator output all the time.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:49
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atomicthumbs posted:I feel like a carbon fiber composite flywheel shell with an interior layer of very finely powdered, sintered lead (or just lead in the composite) would be a good tradeoff there. Can't do that for environmental reasons. Some of them use iron dust though.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:10
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Can't do that for environmental reasons. Some of them use iron dust though.
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Jul 25, 2014 18:52
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Cakefool posted:That's a cost of 175k amp hours to keep it spinning for 20 years. FatCow posted:And the rest of the facility would have pulled around 200GvA. (Assumes 3MW draw 12 hours a day at a pf of 1) Y'all are using some pretty weird units, Or am I just too European? Amp hours is neither a measure of power nor energy. VA is power and not energy. I get it as; 12 units * 2 Amps * 408Vrms * 24 hrs * 365 days * 20 yrs = 1,715 GWh. 3 MW * 12 hrs * 365 days * 20 yrs = 262,8 GWh. So 0,7%. Please correct me because I feel like I am taking this way too far.
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Jul 25, 2014 18:55
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My number should have been GWh. 3MW * 12h * 365d * 20y rounded way down. FatCow fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 22:03
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Can't do that for environmental reasons. Some of them use iron dust though. Depleted uranium, then
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Jul 25, 2014 22:38
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Tungsten. 
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Jul 25, 2014 22:46
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gently caress all that lightweight bullshit, go with Osmium, the densest of metals. It'll be fine until the powder oxidizes and suddenly everyone is dead and/or made of cancer.
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Jul 25, 2014 23:04
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jammyozzy posted:Tungsten. Too pricey.
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Jul 25, 2014 23:21
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Motronic posted:We have Hitec QPSes in one of the facilities I'm at. Reaction time is near enough to be instant.....there are no battery backups on site. If there were straight diesel generators there would have to be batteries to account for switchover time. With the QPSes, the clutch gets dumped on power outage and is used to start the diesel. There is no transfer per se, as everything is being run off the alternator output all the time. Does it sound like this when the power goes out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zXkVQnVmuo
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Jul 25, 2014 23:24
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Sudo Echo posted:Does it sound like this when the power goes out? That would be awesome, but would probably result in a significant frequency/voltage sag. So sadly no. It just goes from a dull geary hum to very loving loud and clattery diesel in an instant, then settles down to less clattery but still really loving loud diesel (there are 10 of them on the top floor). It's this place.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:59
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kastein posted:gently caress all that lightweight bullshit, go with Osmium, the densest of metals. It'll be fine until the powder oxidizes and suddenly everyone is dead and/or made of cancer. And because it's so dense that all the primordial osmium has long since sunk to the Earth's core, any that you find near the surface necessarily came from a meteorite sometime in the last billion years or so. Yes, it is pretty loving expensive.
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Jul 26, 2014 04:10
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And back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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Jul 26, 2014 04:34
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Powershift posted:And back to our regularly scheduled programming. Hmm, I'm thinking bullshit. Only way that happens is by the use of a tubing bender.... (no really, WTF?!)
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Jul 26, 2014 04:44
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"2 silegage bales in a bucket, rough field."
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Jul 26, 2014 04:46
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I don't have any pictures because its all internal but I got to witness a Porsche 911 GT3 go horribly wrong on the track today. Makes a horrible warbling noise with revs cluch in or out, occasionally something thumps inside the transmission. Starter has stopped working entirely. We bump started it to verify the noise and its oddly drivable but the owner didn't want to risk doing more than park it. I have no idea what would cause this combination of symptoms. It was absolutely cooking before it happened. What a majestic car 
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Jul 26, 2014 05:12
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8ender posted:I don't have any pictures because its all internal but I got to witness a Porsche 911 GT3 go horribly wrong on the track today. Makes a horrible warbling noise with revs cluch in or out, occasionally something thumps inside the transmission. Starter has stopped working entirely. We bump started it to verify the noise and its oddly drivable but the owner didn't want to risk doing more than park it. I have no idea what would cause this combination of symptoms. On the upside, anyone who A) has the money for a GT3 and B) tracks it will probably have it repaired and ready to go by the next track day.
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Jul 26, 2014 06:19
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8ender posted:I don't have any pictures because its all internal but I got to witness a Porsche 911 GT3 go horribly wrong on the track today. Makes a horrible warbling noise with revs cluch in or out, occasionally something thumps inside the transmission. Starter has stopped working entirely. We bump started it to verify the noise and its oddly drivable but the owner didn't want to risk doing more than park it. I have no idea what would cause this combination of symptoms. maybe it threw a rod. into the transmission.
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Jul 26, 2014 09:05
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8ender posted:I don't have any pictures because its all internal but I got to witness a Porsche 911 GT3 go horribly wrong on the track today. Makes a horrible warbling noise with revs cluch in or out, occasionally something thumps inside the transmission. Starter has stopped working entirely. We bump started it to verify the noise and its oddly drivable but the owner didn't want to risk doing more than park it. I have no idea what would cause this combination of symptoms. Ouch that's always a bad way to end a track day. GT3's were all over the place at the ring the other weekend but the best part by far was signalling a GT3 by then him quickly moving right to let a E30 M3 (Group A Replica) by. Also two Ferarri 458's playing. Fucknag is right though, generally if someone is tracking a car like that they can afford to fix/replace it. Most of the time at least.
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Jul 26, 2014 17:06
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At least my first track day went well aside from some catastrophic understeer out of the A3. Now I feel compelled to modify it and ruin it as a daily driver. I passed a Civic SI, Trans Am and NC Miata on a round of lapping and felt like a god.
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Jul 26, 2014 20:36
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I love machines that fly. I love racing. Racing machines that fly have the Ola posted:I think this vid has been posted before, but worth repeating. The sound of the overrev and immediate self destruction is something else. (From the Aeronautical Insanity thread.)
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Jul 27, 2014 21:17
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 Wasn't that Horrible as it happened as I pulled into my friend's place, but I'd been on the freeway 5 minutes earlier, so I'm glad it waited. As it was going, the truck was definitely pulling to the right, and it felt like the toe had gotten way off! Now I know why. On the plus side, those may be the 47 year old original tie rods with newer boots, so I guess that's a good lifespan for them.
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Jul 28, 2014 02:58
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Could have been worse, i guess.
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Jul 28, 2014 04:13
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 It will be.
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Jul 28, 2014 04:28
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The cops would be well within their rights to pull that over and call the 'will it shred' guys up for a mobile unit to drop it in.
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Jul 28, 2014 05:33
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Minor stuff relatively speaking for this update but they were fun. Pulled from a buddy's 460 powered old beat up f250 camper truck that 'idled a little funny all of a sudden."  Subaru that thinks it might have run over something on the freeway.  Caravans   And not automotive related but was looking for an excuse to share it. 
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Jul 28, 2014 05:43
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13 INCH DICK posted:And not automotive related but was looking for an excuse to share it.  NOPE
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Jul 28, 2014 05:53
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Pretty sure this isn't how my power seat's forward/backward rail is supposed to look. Anybody know a good place to buy GM seat parts? Struck out at the closest Pick-n-Pull.
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Jul 28, 2014 06:14
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