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Error 404 posted:But, to be way more fair than that crowd deserves, it was a massively stupid thing Gau posted. Like with the situation as it is and all, it goes to levels of dumb we don't have words for, So I'm calling this Gau. This isn't the chat thread, nor is it the callout thread. Please knock this off.
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Jul 23, 2014 15:43
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ravenkult posted:Wait, why the gently caress is Mikan banned. I should either add this to the FAQ or get Dagon to make a list we can randomly consult to give the answer.
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Jul 23, 2014 15:54
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Winson_Paine posted:I should either add this to the FAQ or get Dagon to make a list we can randomly consult to give the answer. Get fuegofish to write a generator for it
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Jul 24, 2014 00:42
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So in the wake of WOTC deciding to describe sexuality and gender in their games in a way, best described as a paternalistic grandpa trying his best, but not really helping, Paizo comes out with things like this. Then they follow it up with this statement and good on them.
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Jul 25, 2014 10:06
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Literally bought a product by them today just because of that.
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Jul 25, 2014 12:21
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Paizo is a company that I really like, it's just that their main product is something that I really hate.
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Jul 25, 2014 12:59
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ProfessorCirno posted:Paizo is a company that I really like, it's just that their main product is something that I really hate. Could always buy novels or setting material.
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Jul 25, 2014 13:12
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Better than WotC by far but they still said "born a man" and deadnamed the character, which is not good.
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Jul 25, 2014 13:21
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Deadnamed? And I think "born a man" fits the not-quite-modern language that D&D and its relatives affect; born a transwoman or whatever is way too clinical for an elfgames book. Is it ideal - are you going to find pages stamped by Janet Mock and Julia Serrano? No, but that's not the point. It's a huge, huge improvement upon what you normally get in any RPG book, and it's positive and done with an active, friendly character (for the record Anevia is a campaign-long ally of the players with her own life, ideas, and goals. Not just a bit player or anything - she's there from the very first fight until whenever your GM determines is appropriate at level 20.) There is an iffy element - Anevia drinks a potion to change her body - but holy poo poo trans phenomenology is a thing literally no one wants in an elfgame book. It's a good portrayal, cover to cover, and it's probably the most positive thing I've seen in the mainstream RPG industry. Compare to what WotC was doing ten years ago, where you can randomly develop transsexuality as a mental disorder by meeting Cthulhu, and what they're doing today, with that bad paragraph in 5e Basic.
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Jul 25, 2014 13:43
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ProfessorCirno posted:Paizo is a company that I really like, it's just that their main product is something that I really hate. Paizo has plenty of great things that you can buy, even if you don't like Pathfinder - they make a ton of play aids like battle mats, turn trackers and the like, all of which are pretty fuckin' great.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:11
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ProfessorCirno posted:Paizo is a company that I really like, it's just that their main product is something that I really hate.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:34
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The pathfinder adventure card game rocks too, lots of fun and even people new to games can pick it up in a few turns. Their adventure paths are a lot of fun if you take out all the mechanics as well.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:55
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Asymmetrikon posted:Paizo has plenty of great things that you can buy, even if you don't like Pathfinder - they make a ton of play aids like battle mats, turn trackers and the like, all of which are pretty fuckin' great. But yeah, although they're doing great stuff in a lot of other areas, there's still the thing that Pathfinder is a minor update to D&D3.5 (though I'm legit curious about the Pathfinder Unchained thing) and for that matter I'm kind of sick of the whole dungeon fantasy genre just now, so what money they get from me will have to be through other things.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:59
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Ewen Cluney posted:They also publish some board games apparently. Their board games are... not great. Probably better than Pathfinder itself, but still the second weakest part of their business model. Everything else is high quality, though.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:02
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Their monster stand-ups are looking a lot more appealing. This is a good trend, and I really don't think we'd have seen anything like this even five years ago. Or hell, even last year.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:04
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They also had a positive transgendered character in Reign of Winter last year. Though she isn't as important as Anevia and only shows up in one adventure module. This doesn't really affect my spending habits because I already like their elf game, but it is a very good trend for an RPG company.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:17
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Fenarisk posted:The pathfinder adventure card game rocks too, lots of fun and even people new to games can pick it up in a few turns. Their adventure paths are a lot of fun if you take out all the mechanics as well. Seconding this. I was holding off even though I'm friends or acquaintances with basically everyone who worked on it because Pathfinder, but then a different friend brought it over one Friday and...well, I'm on their subscription plan now. 
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Jul 25, 2014 17:27
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It's obviously happened for very valid reasons, but it's amazing to see the mindset inversion w/r/t paizo and wotc around here.
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Jul 25, 2014 18:51
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Captain Foo posted:It's obviously happened for very valid reasons, but it's amazing to see the mindset inversion w/r/t paizo and wotc around here. Not so much inversion as it is newfound, and vocal, appreciation for the non-lovely parts. I mean, I thought Pathfinder was a bad game before, and my opinion hasn't changed in that regard, but they're now cool people who make a bad game.
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Jul 25, 2014 19:06
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Error 404 posted:Not so much inversion as it is newfound, and vocal, appreciation for the non-lovely parts. Here buy a goblin. http://paizo.com/products/btpy8veo?Pathfinder-Goblin-Plush-Licktoad-Tribe
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Jul 25, 2014 19:12
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While their hearts seem to be in the right place, it doesn't mean Paizo isn't above writing FATAL & Friends level bullshit. I don't hate them or anything, but man, some of their poo poo is just terrible.
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Jul 25, 2014 19:14
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Cassa posted:So in the wake of WOTC deciding to describe sexuality and gender in their games in a way, best described as a paternalistic grandpa trying his best, but not really helping, Paizo comes out with things like this. Motherfucker, I think I just got a Melf's minute meteor in my eye. I'm  on Paizo and dislike Pathfinder for feeling like playing is more like navigating someone else's house rules, but I like that gesture.Winson_Paine posted:Here buy a goblin. And I think I just found a present for Drakli whenever an appropriate event rolls around again.
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Jul 25, 2014 19:27
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Winson_Paine posted:Here buy a goblin. I will definitely get that little guy, The top of my shortlist of things I love about Pathfinder is the goblins (I actually did buy the Goblins of Golarion book when that came out). 
Error 404 fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 19:29
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Captain Foo posted:It's obviously happened for very valid reasons, but it's amazing to see the mindset inversion w/r/t paizo and wotc around here. Paizo is often groggy and awful, and their attachment to cheesecake art is terrible, but they're clearly good at LGBT issues.
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Jul 25, 2014 19:44
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Well, as far as I'm concerned, Paizo has fallen down a long hill, and it's good to see them stop and start climbing back up again, but they're still the folks who doubled down on one of their core races being the product of rape. It's good to see them moving forward but they're not anywhere close to the top of that hill yet. There are certainly reasons to buy Paizo products, but doing it because they're "progressive" seems very premature on account of a lot of their core products still being fairly immature.
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Jul 25, 2014 20:04
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However, relative to WotC and most other TG companies, they're goddamn saints.
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Jul 25, 2014 20:51
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Asymmetrikon posted:However, relative to WotC and most other TG companies, they're goddamn saints. quote:Hi there, Brie! loving saints, man. e: here have some delicious Pathfinder art:  WotC doing something lovely does not magically absolve Pathfinder of their incredibly mediocre track record. Tulul fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 21:02
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I'm afraid to ask, but did WOTC do anything recently (I haven't been paying attention to 5e) to act as the negative contrast in this situation?
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Jul 25, 2014 21:06
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GrandpaPants posted:did WOTC do anything recently (I haven't been paying attention to 5e hahahahahahaha Oh, boy.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:07
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GrandpaPants posted:I'm afraid to ask, but did WOTC do anything recently (I haven't been paying attention to 5e) to act as the negative contrast in this situation? Let me tell you about Zak S.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:07
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Keep on finding that dark cloud to go around the silver lining, goons.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:09
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Asymmetrikon posted:hahahahahahaha Seriously feel free to ignore the question if it is going to be an inappropriate derail that will lead to people being probated. I really did not want to open a  .
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Jul 25, 2014 21:12
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GrandpaPants posted:Seriously feel free to ignore the question if it is going to be an inappropriate derail that will lead to people being probated. I really did not want to open a Nah, I think the recent WotC events fit perfectly here as instruction on exactly how not to run a business. However, I'm not really qualified to sum them up.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:15
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There was the "sexism" stuff with the art direction at the beginning of 5e.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:21
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GrandpaPants posted:Seriously feel free to ignore the question if it is going to be an inappropriate derail that will lead to people being probated. I really did not want to open a I was about to post the same question. I became disinterested in D&D before much development of the new edition had taken place. I've occasionally taken a peek to see that the new edition seemed to be more of a regression towards past game design choices than (what I considered to be) a step forward, and also that it seemed to be fairly rudderless and aimless in terms of development (kind of a 'designed by committee' approach that included the worst segments of the fanbase as major members of that committee). But that's as far as I've taken it. If someone can post a brief summary of what's happened, in particular with reference to progress (or lack thereof) in gender issues, I'd appreciate it. I don't want to start an argument or even necessarily a long discussion. I'll say one more thing about it though: I have the impression that there have been individual commentaries and actions on both the laudable and condemnable sides. Some of those individuals are key employees, and using official channels to talk, but I do not necessarily take a single individual's comments as indicative of the direction or opinion of the company as a whole. Of course taken in aggregate, all of the discussion and commentary (and most of all, products) of a company present a direction/opinion/attitude, and that's what I'd use to categorize that company's current position and assess whether or not it's praiseworthy (for progress and leadership) or scornworthy (for the lack of those things or even worse, regression).
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Jul 25, 2014 21:36
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Asymmetrikon posted:However, relative to WotC and most other TG companies, they're goddamn saints. Does the new D&D Monster Manual, like the Pathfinder Bestiary, also include creatures that can only reproduce through rape? I'm not defending WotC by saying that, mind, they're apples and oranges sort of issues. But it's also not a seesaw where if WotC does wrong, Paizo suddenly stops being a company that promotes and publishes Rise of the Runelords. (Hell, Pathfinder was effectively devised so they could publish... Rise of the Runelords.) JerryLee posted:Keep on finding that dark cloud to go around the silver lining, goons. I read Pathfinder cover-to-cover. I know too much.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:46
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GrandpaPants posted:Seriously feel free to ignore the question if it is going to be an inappropriate derail that will lead to people being probated. I really did not want to open a Go read the last dozen pages of the closed chat thread
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Jul 25, 2014 21:46
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Tulul posted:loving saints, man. We all know how lovely Paizo was. That's the point. Somehow, Paizo has improved and moved past their lovely start, where WotC is embracing the shittiness and giving it a consulting credit and hoping that a pat on the head and an awkward paragraph on inclusivity will be enough. The other big NPC in Wrath of the Righteous, by the way, is Irabeth; a half-orc, born of loving parents, who grew up to be a paladin. It's made clear that nothing about her orcish heritage or being married to a woman is any threat to her paladin status. Paizo has come a LONG way since Runelords. gently caress Runelords.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:56
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Every time I look at Runelords I find something new and terrible. Like the dominatrix succubi with her daughters as submissive incestual sex slaves - complete with prestige classes to match!
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Jul 25, 2014 21:59
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GrandpaPants posted:I'm afraid to ask, but did WOTC do anything recently (I haven't been paying attention to 5e) to act as the negative contrast in this situation? tl;dr, without dragging this into another derail: WotC paid some really lovely people (we're talking "sic your fans on people you disagree with to send them IRL death threats, call for the death of all storygamers and use people's gender identity/sexuality to harass them" lovely) to "consult" on making their lovely grog game shittier and groggier. When some of the harassed people complained, Mearls asked for proof, which was emailed to him, then proceeded to email one of the lovely people to go "it's all good, I looked over the evidence and none of it is true."
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Jul 25, 2014 22:00
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