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In actual Roguelike happenings: Solstice is back in action, a ridiculously over-ambitious Roguelike that aims to joust with the biggest of the big---though I don't know that a David V Goliath comparison is apt considering I can't in good conscience equate a Sling down to the level of Visual Basic 6 as his weapon of choice. The dude has made quite some progress since the last update about a year ago though! http://solsticeroguelike.weebly.com/ PRIME is back in action, crazy as ever while apparently rocking the latest gains in NotEye---though I don't know if that means the latest latest NotEye using SDL2 as per the bleeding edge of ADOM backer releases or just far more recent versus the last release. http://www.pesky-reticulans.org/
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Jul 24, 2014 14:33
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German Joey posted:Yes, a list so insane and convoluted that it consists of a single line: if the game plays and feels similar enough to the game "Rogue" then it is in the "Roguelike" genre, if it does not then it is not. Not you. The last time This Discussion happened, someone came in guns blazing and declared pretty much every game a not-roguelike unless it had a minimum of X stats and CRPG advancement etc. It was glorious. And Abyss Odyssey looks like an instabuy, a roguemetroidvanialike where the combat doesn't suck poo poo?
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Jul 24, 2014 16:47
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Abyss Odyssey would be better if it was just about the Chileans and not about the immortal demigods or whatever.
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Jul 24, 2014 21:26
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We should start calling them ToeJam & Earl-likes instead.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:38
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On the subject of (maybe possibly okay probably not but please don't start that argument again) Roguelikes... *Idly tosses Nuclear Throne into the sun.* I've got 15 hours on this thing now, and hit 6-1 for the first time just now. And I am learning jack and poo poo from 85% of my runs, because I get a nasty enough enemy spawn or screw up something oops dead, but you know, okay, I could handle that alone. It's not great... but I could. Then I hit something that insta-kills me. Oh look these enemies have shields, that's cool, wait they reflec, oops, oneshotted by my own Flak Cannon. Oh look, that enemy looks like he has a boombox on his-*oneshotted by thrown car at high speeds*. Oh look, a boss that is entirely built around jumping on your head, doing contact damage and pointblank shot volleys, and then exploding on death. This is ignoring the ever present "There are cars everywhere" and... basically everything about Stage 4, which takes some very real knowledge of how it functions to not die on consistently, which of course is eight levels in. And... well, Stage 5 is evil, but it's legitimate evil, outside of the boss, but that doesn't help either. Then I hit 6-1, which is apparently a dark stage, with spawn-in of some kind? with enemies that can melee range explode and one of them successfully did 11 damage to me, oneshotting me. It's triply frustrating because, well, the game is actually quite good outside of every stage ever having a oneshot explosion and enemy design in general being very obnoxiously fast-kill slippery slope. But it's just no fun to actually try to beat for me due to these oneshots. Fast kills are fine. Kills I can prepare for in some manner besides spraying off screen (and running out of ammo), sure. But... not this. Which is a shame, as I love both Roguelikes and shmups and this should definitely be a game I like. In short;  Someone give this goddamn game an invinco period after hits of longer than five frames, and cap damage at 4, please.
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Jul 27, 2014 22:17
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SageAcrin posted:In short; I've played a some Nuclear Throne as well (over 20 hours) and managed to loop once (after the final boss was added), here's some info : - In stage 6-1, there are "Necromancer" type enemies that will revive the basic enemies of the stages (not the explosives ones, but the rat-like enemies) until you kill them. They have some kind of white robes and are usually hanging around the back, as they can't attack you. Usually a good fast firing weapon (laster pistol/rifle, machinegun/assault rifle, auto shotgun...) will do the job, just be sure to rush them after the explosive enemies are cleared. - For the boss of 5-3, moving in a square like way usually help about not getting the boss stomping on your face. He's really low health too so with a grenade launcher, laser weapon or slugger will do the job. - The brawler enemies in 5-1 to 5-3 are very deadly when carrying cars around. The not-die-to-explosions perk or an undirect fire weapon (grenades...) assure you that they are not a problem. - Lighting shotgun (pistol is heh) is a really good weapon past stage 3-3. - If you ever reach stage 7-1, be prepared with really strong weapons and be sure to move around ! I died in the 6 first seconds in stage 7-1 the first 4 times I reached it because I didn't move enough (spoiler, enemies teleport ON you). Some deaths really feel like bullshit like you said, such as melee enemies doing 14 damage to you in one second, unavoidable deaths (often on 3-3 due to horrible room...) and such. Vaos fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 08:43
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Yeah, the prevalence of explosions past 3-1 means Boiling Veins is one of the best perks in the world. I pick it up no matter what else is there (unless it's really early on) Plutonium Hunger is another top pick for me, just because it means you can suck up rads from a safe distance after sniping someone off. The boss of 5-3 loving sucks though, the "landing" is almost instantaneous and the initial volley is almost guaranteed to one-shot you. I still have no idea what the boss actually does because I instantly die on landing half the time and the other half I win instantly after taking zero damage.
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Jul 29, 2014 05:51
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blakyoshi posted:We should start calling them ToeJam & Earl-likes instead. Is Zombies Ate My Neighbors a ToeJam & Earl-like?
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Jul 29, 2014 06:25
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Does Boiling Veins actually prevent oneshots if you're above 50%? I could swear I tried it and got killed from over 50% by an explosion, which means you have to run around more vulnerable to normal attacks and take a mutation pick to avoid oneshots. Which is about where I start wanting to hurt the developers. (I miss the old always on version. That was actually good.)
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Jul 29, 2014 16:30
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DalaranJ posted:Is Zombies Ate My Neighbors a ToeJam & Earl-like? ZAMN has fixed levels, and thus ineligible to be a Festooned Abacus.
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Jul 29, 2014 17:03
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SageAcrin posted:Does Boiling Veins actually prevent oneshots if you're above 50%? It does -- any explosion damage that would drop you below 50% will drop you to 50% instead. This means that if you're at 5/8 health and you eat an explosion you'll walk away from it with 4 health. Melting will drop to 1 health from 2/2, which makes Boiling Veins not completely useless on him 
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Jul 29, 2014 17:28
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Okay, that knowledge does help enough that I will probably continue trying. When I feel more like ramming my head into a wall, I mean. Gah, the game is so good outside of the cheapshots... Well, and the questionable weapon balance. Why does the Revolver, SMG, Assault Rifle, Machine Gun and Pop Gun exist? Did you really need five weapons that all do the same damage and just have varying bursts/RoF/spread, and all appear early on in a weapon pool of about ten total options? And then the Pop Gun reflects off walls, rendering the entire set of other guns questionable? And has anyone really used the Screwdriver for more time than it took to get another weapon that was anything else besides a copy of your other weapon? But still, there's worse balance than that in games. Sadly. SageAcrin fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 19:00
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changing the RoF/spread of a weapon usually, uh, makes it into a completely different weapon? just because they shoot projectiles that each individually do 'the same damage' does not mean they do anywhere near the same damage in actual practice to to RoF/spread, and they're effective at different ranges/in different situations. all that means is the shots share a graphic like Revolver/SMG/Assault Rifle all play totally differently, the only ones that are actually similar enough to overlap are revolver/machine gun which could be fixed just by giving the machine gun a bit higher RoF
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Jul 29, 2014 23:19
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SageAcrin posted:Okay, that knowledge does help enough that I will probably continue trying. The pop gun actually deals less damage than the others and doesn't work with recycle gland, so it's far from the king of early bullet weapons. The pop rifle has an ammo efficiency close to the other bullet weapons because it uses 2 bullets for a burst of 3. I remember shotgun fingers being hilarious with the pop guns the one time I mixed them, though. Screwdriver is one of two purposefully bad weapons in the game (the other being the disc gun), but it's the key to a secret lock 
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Jul 29, 2014 23:32
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SageAcrin posted:Okay, that knowledge does help enough that I will probably continue trying. The Screwdriver is used to hotwire a car in the junkyard levels. It's kind of deliberately crappy. edit:added spoiler tag girth brooks part 2 fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 23:32
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Count Uvula posted:Screwdriver is one of two purposefully bad weapons in the game (the other being the disc gun), but it's the key to a secret lock
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Jul 29, 2014 23:41
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Oh, Popgun does do less damage? I was mucking with it and I wasn't sure. I liked it the most out of the various bullet weapons(not a surprise, it's the newest and in general the weapon balance has been more interesting on newer/more recently overhauled weapons.). RoF/spread is interesting, yes. "Burst fire", "Fire single shots", "Fire single shots automatically" and "Fire shots automatically with more spread" is kinda a tiny spread of traits, considering they all run off the same ammo and all the shots do the same damage, so the net result is finding various ways to hit an enemy with the same amount of shots. You could reasonably chuck all but one of those four and it'd be fine(Hell, leave the Revolver, as it's a nice starting weapon). Although bitching about these over the Triple Machinegun is probably unfair, thinking on it. Anyone gotten good mileage out of it? I want to like it but every single time I use it I just waste ammo, even against huge rooms. Also; The Screwdriver does special things? Okay, complaint rescinded on that one, that's sorta cute. I want to complain but I can't, it fits the style of the game to hide cute obscure secrets people don't need to win on trashy weapons. I don't know if "deliberately crappy" is the right term for Disc Gun. It's just frigging doofy in general, I've gotten some decent use out of it once in a while though. By being very, very careful. More like they wanted a weapon that did certain things and wanted it to not be broken for being found early? Edit: *Gets to 7-2, dies.* I blame all of you for me continuing to do this. 
SageAcrin fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 23:42
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Actually, the screwdriver does as much damage as the Sledgehammer but attacks way faster. The range is horrid though, rending it mostly unusable. I also agree on the disc gun being the shittiest gun.
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Jul 30, 2014 12:13
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What really bugs me about Nuclear Throne which I play briefly every so often is getting sucked into the next level when you kill the last enemy.
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Jul 30, 2014 12:33
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Ah Map posted:What really bugs me about Nuclear Throne which I play briefly every so often is getting sucked into the next level when you kill the last enemy. Big fan of getting yanked toward the portal and then killed by an explosion that was impossible to escape from before the level ends.
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Jul 30, 2014 14:03
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And the portal triggers explosive objects, yeah. You can easily play around it, but it's an odd design decision, that you have to be scared of killing the last few enemies on a stage. It's weird, because this game is open access. So the entire thing has a bunch of grating elements that surely they've gotten complaints about, but don't want to change because of their personal vision for the game. If anything, they've doubled down on the design since I started playing. (Actually, by and large it's the same element, extremely fast kills that are impossible to react to, in a huge set of flavors and types. I play bloody danmaku shmups and I think this game has too high of a kill speed to resources ratio. I get Dangun Feveron flashbacks, though Dangun will forever be king at that.) But then they want to polish it up as much as possible without changing that. I guess that's nice, but it seems sorta like saying "I want you to ignore the anchovies in the ice cream. Outside of that, how does it taste?", and that's the nicest way I can think of to put it. Then again, I guess it's what made me put up with the game so far, so some kind of mission success? 
SageAcrin fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 14:46
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Is the only way I can heal in Rogue Legacy by finding food from destroyed objects? Just wondering whether there's something I could do when I'm in the lobby of the castle.
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Jul 30, 2014 14:55
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ufarn posted:Is the only way I can heal in Rogue Legacy by finding food from destroyed objects? Pretty much, yeah. I mean you can get some backgrounds or traits or whatever that may heal you tiny bits in weird ways, or vampiric gear which heals you when you kill stuff (but reduces your max hp to nothing) and some other stuff like that but by and large, yup, you find food in broken vases and you learn to like it. Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 15:40
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I'm pretty excited for Crypt of the Necrodancer today. It's a shame they're releasing it while I'm at work though.
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Jul 30, 2014 16:23
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IronicDongz posted:the disc gun is actually quite good if you get good with it Disc gun with Y.V.'s upgraded pop pop is brutal.
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Jul 30, 2014 16:30
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The new version of ADOM (r49 or 1.8.1) is pretty cool, there's more color-coded text, tabbed info screens (inventory, backpack, skills, talents, quests etc) and new movement commands. Auto-explore is pretty drat handy when you only have a few corners left to explore. edit: welp, met my first ghost  That ghost is my level 4 troll barb who died on level 3 of the puppy cave. It killed me in two hits. feraltennisprodigy fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 16:39
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Crypt of the NecroDancer now available on Steam! $14.99 for the base game, $24.99 for game+soundtrack.
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Jul 30, 2014 18:12
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Crypt of the Necrodancer is really good! It's kind of real-time with the way the dungeon takes a turn every beat, but everything about the game meshes together marvelously when as you learn it. There's a hardcore mode for roguelike purists, but also a way to gradually level up the dungeon and character per run (rogue legacy style -- you earn diamonds per run, but lose them all at the beginning of the next run. Rewards good play because costs ramp up and you'll need 5+ diamonds to continue upgrading the dungeon)
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Jul 30, 2014 19:09
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RoboCicero posted:It's kind of real-time with the way the dungeon takes a turn every beat, There's also two other unlockable characters at the moment, obtained by clearing Hardcore mode (no persistent upgrade effects) with at least four more to come. edit: Some walls have blue specks on 'em, if you dig them out you can find diamonds. Also, the shopkeeper is the best  I dunno what it is but just having an NPC singing along to the music every stage is great.
maketakunai fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 19:18
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Crypt of the Necrodancer is literally everything I wanted.
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Jul 31, 2014 00:30
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Necrodancer is insane. It starts to get pretty difficult in the later zones. At this point I can't even imagine completing the game in hardcore mode.
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Jul 31, 2014 02:12
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Lilli posted:Crypt of the Necrodancer is literally everything I wanted. I can confirm it is fun. The only problem is that afterwards I try to keep doing things to a rhythm. It's hard to read a thread when I have to keep scrolling the page to the beat of the song I have playing.
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Jul 31, 2014 04:19
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Necrodancer is absolutely amazing. Totally hooked. The conga-line zombie boss had me laughing out loud right up until I missed the variable beat and got my head caved in.
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Jul 31, 2014 04:29
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Sundae posted:Necrodancer is absolutely amazing. Totally hooked. The conga-line zombie boss had me laughing out loud right up until I missed the variable beat and got my head caved in. That's what it loving was. I keep exploding at the bosses because I keep messing up the beat. Only cleared Zone 2 because I had a potion and was literally on my last half-heart by the end. I just realized that they give you that room at the beginning to let you practice in before you roll out to face the boss. Also I thought the game, being in "alpha", would suffer from worse artwork and design in zone 3 due to things not being totally fleshed out and boy was I wrong  The mechanics also seriously ramp up. I have no idea how I'm going to beat this game.
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Jul 31, 2014 04:41
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Oh my gods Necrodancer is amazing. Cleared Zone 1 just barely (fell through a trapdoor on floor 4, barely managed to beat the boss anyway), got completely pasted in Zone 2. I'm going to have this game's music stuck in my head, aren't I? The shopkeepers singing along to the music is hilarious and will never stop being so 
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Jul 31, 2014 04:59
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Here's a trick I found: bombs will destroy shop walls, and each wall destroyed drops 10g. If you plop a bomb in a corner you can get 5 tiles for 50g per bomb, so if you've got excess bombs or you're on stage X-3 it can be really good. In Zone 2, the shop has mushrooms in the corners, some of which explode, so you can do the same thing for free. Sometimes the shopkeeper sells 3-packs of bombs for 60g - if you destroy three corners, you get 150g, so as long as you can get enough to buy those initial 3, you'll make 110g profit easy. Also, if you see a cracked wall (other than cracked shop walls), break them down with a bomb or a Titanium-or-better pickaxe for a surprise  TooMuchAbstraction posted:The shopkeepers singing along to the music is hilarious and will never stop being so 
maketakunai fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 05:16
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I have no ability to deal with red dragons  e: game is amazing fun btw
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Jul 31, 2014 07:03
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straight jerkers posted:I have no ability to deal with red dragons Red Dragon is a bitch but just wait until you get to face Blue Dragon. The trick is that you deal with the the same way you deal with Green Dragons but you're forced to attack them only vertically. EDIT: Has anyone figured out an easy way to deal with Goblins? They're wrecking my rear end every time.
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Jul 31, 2014 07:06
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Jack Trades posted:Red Dragon is a bitch but just wait until you get to face Blue Dragon. To deal with goblins, I chase them into a corner so they're one or two blocks away, then I turn away and dig a wall or something to get them to approach for the last step. (You can also just stand in place, but that'll make you lose your multiplier unless you have the ballet shoes.) Digging walls is also useful for dealing with enemies that move every turn like wraiths or mounted skeletons. If you're not at the right distance to step right next to them, just stand in place by digging out a wall and they'll be kind enough to walk into your dagger. All of this is unnecessary if you have a longer-range weapon, though. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 07:10
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straight jerkers posted:I have no ability to deal with red dragons Firstly, they only fireblast horizontally. Secondly, they only move/attack on every second beat, generally, excepting the below fireblast behavior. Thirdly, the first beat you get into horizontal range, they charge a fireblast, then the beat after, they fire it. They skip a beat after firing before moving again. Using this, you can exploit the AI pretty easily: stand directly above or below one and wait for it to get into melee range (assuming you only have 1 range). Attack, move away, attack, move away until you hit a wall. Once you hit the wall, move to the side so the Dragon charges a fireblast at you, then move away from the wall so you're 1 tile diagonally away from the Dragon. The turn you move onto the diagonal tile, it will breathe fire. On the next beat, move back above or below it - the dragon will skip this turn. On the next beat, the dragon will attack, so move away, then attack, then move away.. If you have access to a bow, crossbow, spear, longsword or broadsword this is even easier since you can just run more than one tile away and plink at it, or smash it from the diagonal tile. Just make sure that when you run out of space and dodge to the side you actually have room to move back towards where the dragon was chasing you (watch out for pillars in cramped rooms). One cool fire dragon trick: its breath kills the shopkeeper RPATDO_LAMD posted:To deal with goblins, I chase them into a corner so they're one or two blocks away, then I turn away and dig a wall or something to get them to approach for the last step. (You can also just stand in place, but that'll make you lose your multiplier unless you have the ballet shoes). maketakunai fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 07:15
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