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poptart_fairy posted:Yeah, Amana's a terrible slog that is completely trivalized by a single weapon you're never encouraged to use again. It's such a misstep. I remember before I got to Amana I was expecting a nightmare crypt of deep water and tight hallways with blue wizards shooting homing bolts from atop pillars while my one path was blocked by hordes of black knights based on how people described it, so the actual thing was pretty tame compared to what I'd built up in my head. It seemed pretty easy to me then, even before the patch, but I was playing with a faith build and then a strength clubs build, so I guess they weren't strong against my weapons and spells. I probably died less in the Shrine than any other single place in the game. The bog monsters are easy to target before they activate so you know they're there and go down really quick; you can roll around the priestesses's bolts; and lightning does extra damage in the water. The water doesn't even slow you down that much if you stay close to cover or the critical path of interconnected islands. And since the patch the homing projectiles track so slowly you're only getting hit if you're asleep. Though the drop offs hidden in the deep water did make me super anxious. And there's a piece of loot off to one side of the map that I never found a way to reach, which continues to haunt me.
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Aug 2, 2014 16:21
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...of SCIENCE! posted:FF7's dialogue and writing in general is pretty bad and uneven by today's standards ("Let's mosey", "He are sick", etc.) but it's still better than a lot of JRPGs from that time period. If you really want to see a bad translation try playing the original Suikoden or Final Fantasy Tactics, where the word "breath" was translated as "bracelet" across the board. Doesn't Suikoden 2 have a sidequest that they didn't finish translating?
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Aug 2, 2014 16:21
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muscles like this? posted:Doesn't Suikoden 2 have a sidequest that they didn't finish translating? No but there are some untranslated conversations http://tcrf.net/Suikoden_II#Untranslated_Gibberish_Text
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Aug 2, 2014 16:26
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Vrikkian posted:Every FEAR game has been poo poo since the first one. They are making it into creepy mom rape, dead psychic murder brother Call of Duty. Then I'm glad I stopped after the first one. My thing bringing it down was that is was marketed as a horror game, but you're basically an invincible Kung fu super soldier who can slow down time to drop kick SWAT teams. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it's dumb that the game expects you to be scared of the little girl from the Ring.
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Aug 2, 2014 16:42
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kazil posted:I can't imagine trying to play FF7 for the first time these days. It's a good game for the era it was made, but it has not aged well at all. I think a lot of the stuff that drives you crazy is ignored because of nostalgia, yes. I've tried, and yeah, it doesn't work (primarily for the reason that I stated above, the translation is so bad it actively obstructs you). There's other reasons, but in general it just doesn't age well. I want to say that Square was one of the companies that bit off more than they could chew in the jump to 3D, but that's not entirely right; 7 pulls a lot of the same stuff as 6, especially narratively, and if the two games were made with the same engines and constraints they'd come out pretty equal. Instead, it feels like FF7 was a shaky first step. They tried to make the same sort of game they made beforehand, with an entirely new engine and potential new heights to reach, to learn how they work and if they need to change things up. Very little of it works, but (with the exception of the lovely translation which is a different issue) fixing it would've required foreknowledge that they just didn't have. I haven't played FF8 or 9, so I can't attest to how quickly they learned, but I can say that they definitely did by the time the PS2 rolled around. I'm going to make the bold claim that 7 is the worst mainline Final Fantasy, or at least the worst one I've played, but I find it hard to really blame them for that. They were learning how to make an entirely new type of game, and they didn't exactly have any other way to do it. I have a bit of a fascination with that era of gaming, where pretty much every company (and sometimes different teams within the same company) was faced with the same question of 'how do you make the jump to 3D' and having to make their own answers. I've been kicking around the idea of doing a YouTube series or something on it, but I have no idea how I'd do it or if anyone else cares as much as I do.
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Aug 2, 2014 16:45
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Especially because after a certain point you realize that Alma won't actually ever hurt you. So every jump scare with her is rendered toothless.
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Aug 2, 2014 16:45
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I love how Rogue Galaxy sabotages itself at every turn. In addition to the cliched plot, wasted characters, uneven combat, cut-and-paste level-design, a nauseating romance between a woman and a dog, there is the hilarious writing decision to ham-hand melodrama into every scene. Near the end of the game you learn the backstory of your Jack-Sparrow-ripoff companion. It turns out that he had a previously unmentioned girlfriend who was killed suddenly by an oversized bird in the middle of a completely ordinary city. I haven't bought another JRPG since. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYUEMYFN1w Inspector Gesicht has a new favorite as of 17:14 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 16:58
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Cleretic posted:I haven't played FF8 or 9, so I can't attest to how quickly they learned, but I can say that they definitely did by the time the PS2 rolled around. From the point of view those with a nostalgic fondness for both games, Final Fantasy VIII suffers most from simply not being VII. If you take nostalgia out of the picture, it still definitely has some issues, but they're not as bad as everybody makes them out to be. Graphically, they covered major ground both in pre-render work and polygon models, and the art direction for the most part kept things looking interesting. The translation was definitely a step up, but that couldn't help the writing and overall story, which left lots of players groaning, especially during some particularly ridiculous(ly stupid) plot twists. The story itself is a "take it or leave it" affair. In hindsight, it seems like one last love-letter in JRPG form to Generation X, with the brooding "I can't rely on anybody but me, leave me alone" protagonist and themes of being pushed aside, forgotten or ignored (contrasting starkly with Tidus's nigh-undefeatable perky attitude and limitless naivete in Final Fantasy X). Gameplay mechanics-wise, they overhauled everything and tried something new with the Junction system, which is either "loving terrible" or "a bold attempt," depending on who you ask. Characters were no longer restricted to certain things they were good at--a few seconds making changes in the junction menus could make your hotheaded, overzealous pugilist your party's most powerful mage just as easily as a physical damage-dealing machine. The star minigame, Triple Triad, is actually a lot of fun, and relies on a nice mix of luck, skill, and effort. The rules of the minigame can and do change throughout the progression of the story, usually in loving annoying ways. There are ways to counteract this, but a lot of foresight and planning is required (as well as patience). Was it an improvement over Final Fantasy VII? Definitely. Does that make it a good game? Not necessarily. I adore the everloving poo poo out of it and have since it was first released, but I recognize that it's not everyone's cup of tea.
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Aug 2, 2014 17:32
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I played my post-SNES FFs for the first time in pretty much the opposite order: FF10, FF9, FF8, FF7 (SNES and earlier sprinkled in-between. I'm a latecomer). FF9 is one of the very best games in the series for me, but FF8 is abysmal and I loving hate it. FF7 is fine. Even so late, it's fine. There are a lot of parts that are genuinely fun, as compared to FF8 (or, God help me, FF3DS) which for me at least are just terribly boring and/or frustrating all the time. The PC version of FF7 even has a slightly touched-up translation (mostly the really egregious mistakes like "this guy are sick"). Minigames and menus suck, I would agree that it has aged badly, but not to the point of unplayability. FF8 looks and reads far, far better, has fantastic menus and only one (but very good) minigame, but it's a pile of poo poo in every other aspect.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:26
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FF9 had the best and most rewarding Chocobo sidequest.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:30
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The VII translation isn't that bad. Even the tutorial line is hurt more by having a line break, without a comma or an 'and' to connect the lines, making you take "Attack while its tail is up" as a standalone phrase. Taken altogether, it's obviously what to do.
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Aug 2, 2014 20:08
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Lotish posted:Though the drop offs hidden in the deep water did make me super anxious. And there's a piece of loot off to one side of the map that I never found a way to reach, which continues to haunt me. Carry a torch.
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Aug 2, 2014 20:28
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Cleretic posted:I'm going to make the bold claim that 7 is the worst mainline Final Fantasy Accordion Man has a new favorite as of 20:33 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 20:31
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The DS version of FF3 is given credit for bringing the game into the third dimension, as well as making every flaw in the original a thousands times worse.
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Aug 2, 2014 20:50
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I love how Rogue Galaxy sabotages itself at every turn. In addition to the cliched plot, wasted characters, uneven combat, cut-and-paste level-design, a nauseating romance between a woman and a dog, there is the hilarious writing decision to ham-hand melodrama into every scene. Near the end of the game you learn the backstory of your Jack-Sparrow-ripoff companion. It turns out that he had a previously unmentioned girlfriend who was killed suddenly by an oversized bird in the middle of a completely ordinary city. I haven't bought another JRPG since. Level-5 makes some very pretty games but jesus christ they need to cut down on all the padding and grinding in their JRPGs. Dark Cloud 2 and Dragon Warrior VIII were great 40-hour games that were stretched out into intolerable 100-hour games.
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Aug 2, 2014 20:53
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The first three Final Fantasy games are all very bland at this point. I think nostalgia is the only thing holding the first one up.
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Aug 2, 2014 20:56
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The job system was basically the only good thing about III, and V did it infinitely better along with everything else. I and II's Dawn of Soul remakes pretty decent, however, and still stand up.
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Aug 2, 2014 21:12
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Final Fantasy 7 was the greatest game ever when it was released and its the greatest game ever right now and I will fight anyone who says differently.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:04
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The only bad thing about FF7 is the best attacks (the summons) are all long as gently caress (especially after you've seen them a couple hundred times) and there's no way to skip or shorten them.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:16
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oldpainless posted:Final Fantasy 7 was the greatest game ever when it was released and its the greatest game ever right now and I will fight anyone who says differently. I will hold them down, you can punch.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:45
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I thoroughly enjoyed FF7 when it was still a new game, more than I did 8 or 9, but I think my enjoyment would be a lot more limited if I tried to replay it now. But I think that's largely because JRPGs are really loving archaic as a whole and the genre has aged very poorly in general (although certain games like Xenoblade have done an okay job at modernizing a little). I still think it qualifies as a very good game despite not aging well because it's not exactly fair to say that a game like FF7 doesn't meet our modern standards of game design when those standards didn't exist, and it really was a groundbreaking game in many respects.
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Aug 3, 2014 01:33
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Xenoblade is the best rpg game I've ever played - but I really do hate any quest involving a monster that only comes out in certain weather (especially that one in Eryth Sea that took ages to get shooting stars going). Really hoping that the not sequel isn't going to suck balls.
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Aug 3, 2014 02:01
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Mierenneuker posted:The first three Final Fantasy games are all very bland at this point. I think nostalgia is the only thing holding the first one up. I admit I haven't played the original NES Final Fantasies, but they have the advantage of stellar remakes. The Dawn of Souls remake of 1 was actually the first Final Fantasy game I played at all, and I think that polish does a lot to help it; the remakes remove some of the worse bugs, sharpen up the slightly shaky translation, and overall when it gets that level of polish then it actually holds up really well, although it comes off a tad plain. II is a different beast to the entire rest of the series, but I still like it for trying. Its attempt didn't exactly succeed, but it's fun enough to go with. III isn't user-friendly at all even remade, and I'll admit that has to go somewhere near the worst, but I'm a sucker for the job system, so. Playing the absolute originals of all the games, yeah, one of the NES Final Fantasy games will come last. But they've had remakes to polish up their flaws and actually make them pretty decent. If someone, right now, decided to buy and play every single Final Fantasy game in its most readily available form, I think VII would come in last because it's the only one that really needs that review and hasn't gotten it. So it only ever stands as Square's shaky first steps into 3D that only kinda-sorta work.
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Aug 3, 2014 03:02
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The only problem with FF7 was they didn't spend enough time in the giant cyberpunk city run by en evil electricity corporation.
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Aug 3, 2014 04:53
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AngryRobotsInc posted:The VII translation isn't that bad. Even the tutorial line is hurt more by having a line break, without a comma or an 'and' to connect the lines, making you take "Attack while its tail is up" as a standalone phrase. Taken altogether, it's obviously what to do. It's bad because of a misplaced "!". http://imgur.com/KSGNGwJ
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Aug 3, 2014 04:56
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Lord Chumley posted:It's bad because of a misplaced "!". Right. Been a while since I'd seen the actual line. VII's biggest issue with translation is it was (probably) translated in-house on the Japanese side of things. So it's overly literal in a bunch of spots, and the grammar and spelling can be quite spotty. For the most part though, it's not terribly hard to understand, and doesn't have any outright story changing mistakes like some games (Chrono Trigger is an example of that, sort of).
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Aug 3, 2014 05:17
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I died to the scorpion the first time because of that. FF7 had some goofy enemies. Like that place in the slums with the giant house-shaped robot.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:28
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FF7 is weird. It seriously feels like Midgar and the rest of the game don't belong in the same world.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:45
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Phobophilia posted:I died to the scorpion the first time because of that. You say this like FF8 doesn't have literal goddamn hockey players as enemies.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:57
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Speaking of Final Fantasy gripes, it's weird how at the start of IV the Red Wings are angsting about what they've done as if they were forced into a bad position, but in the flashback they're like "Dare to defy us!? *kills the innocent white mage*".
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Aug 3, 2014 06:00
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The Bee posted:You say this like FF8 doesn't have literal goddamn hockey players as enemies. One thing I liked about 8 was getting rid of getting money from monsters. Its never made a lick of sense but everyone does it.
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Aug 3, 2014 06:04
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The Bee posted:You say this like FF8 doesn't have literal goddamn hockey players as enemies. Stupid jocks! Why won't they leave us alone?
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Aug 3, 2014 11:32
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WickedHate posted:Speaking of Final Fantasy gripes, it's weird how at the start of IV the Red Wings are angsting about what they've done as if they were forced into a bad position, but in the flashback they're like "Dare to defy us!? *kills the innocent white mage*". You usually have to do something bad before you can regret it. The Bee posted:You say this like FF8 doesn't have literal goddamn hockey players as enemies. Every-game tends to have a really weird/goofy enemy. Lightning Returns had a Cactair (a cactuar with an afro that spends its first few actions trying to get his needles to poke a hole in it so he can hurt you). One of my favorites though is the Tonberry Chefs in Crystal Chronicles. Speaking of that game though, there is no way to effectively level up new characters alone if you decide to create them after you've reached a certain point in the game where all enemies become gently caress you strong. I spent 20 minutes fighting the first boss with a new Yuke and he had a loving sliver of health left and loving thundaga. What makes this bad is that each character you make gets a trade - and that trade advances by doing levels.
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Aug 3, 2014 11:33
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Divinity 2: The Dragon Knight Saga. 1) Quests that get marked as failed if you complete them "wrong". Early on some guy wants you to bring in some debts from some other dude. He turns out to be a blackmailing rear end in a top hat, but you take the victim's side, the quest fails when you turn it in.  I mean, I guess I technically failed the job he gave me, but that's an incredibly weird way to do it in a game.2) NPCs that gently caress off to somewhere after giving you a quest. I can't remember the exact ones, but several of them give you a quest and then haul rear end somewhere else. Thanks! This is made doubly as annoying because... 3) NO QUEST MARKERS. Yes I'm a lazy spoiled entitled dumb idiot gamer but I need quest markers or I bumble around and never find where I'm supposed to go.
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Aug 3, 2014 19:39
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AngryRobotsInc posted:Right. Been a while since I'd seen the actual line. whats the chrono trigger mistake?
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Aug 3, 2014 19:47
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scarycave posted:You usually have to do something bad before you can regret it. Someone conflicted about their actions usually wouldn't just blurt out "DARE TO DEFY US?!" and kill someone without much provocation.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:38
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:whats the chrono trigger mistake? It's pretty minor, and you have to actually be talking to NPCs to see it, but at one point in the original translation, Janus is called Schala's step-brother.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:44
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:whats the chrono trigger mistake? I'm guessing either the mistranslation of Gasper's "Someone close to you needs help" line or maybe some random NPC dialogue?
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Aug 3, 2014 20:46
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God, why do the rifts in Saint's Row 4 take loving forever to finish, and why is the TK one so lovely. Like, even with explosive knockback removed, it's still a buncha crap.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:51
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I just started playing Assassin's Creed 2 on the PC. The controls on the PC are wonky as hell, and it always says to press the button with the face or foot the icon on it, rather than a key, so I had to constantly refer to the options menu. So I bought a Xbox controller. Apparently the game has issues with those. I kind of remember how the face buttons work from playing the first game back when it came out on Xbox, and the default Xbox controller settings are completely random. The game tells me to press the b button to do something, for example, but that function isn't actually mapped to the b button. The map and pause menus are mapped to clicking the sticks, for some reason, instead of the start and back buttons. And while that hand, off-hand, face, and foot icons are at least the same color as the face button they should be mapped to, other functions, like the weapon wheel, just show some grey icon. Thanks, game. It might be my fault for buying a 3rd party controller, but it worked with Dark Souls (which also told me to push a controller button when I was using the mouse and keyboard  ).It also hasn't been autosaving. I got to the part where you first get to your villa, quit for the night, came back, and I was back at the part where you get the tutorial to blend in with the courtesans. After that, I got a little farther, to the point where you return to Florence after assassinating the conspirator's son, and I'm back to the part with the courtesans again.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:51
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