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BiggerBoat an A/T thread would be awesome.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:49
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ManOfTheYear posted:What are the besst documentaries on youtube? I'm trying to find decent nature documentaries but jesus all this national geographic or history channel stuff is just retarded bullshit. Watch Blackfish. Or The Thin Blue Line. Or Tabloid. There are three notable titles that are not Nat Geo or History channel.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:53
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Zwabu posted:Watch Blackfish. Or The Thin Blue Line. Or Tabloid. There are three notable titles that are not Nat Geo or History channel. Blackfish is flipping awesome. (Pun intended!!)
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Aug 2, 2014 20:42
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ManOfTheYear posted:What are the besst documentaries on youtube? I'm trying to find decent nature documentaries but jesus all this national geographic or history channel stuff is just retarded bullshit. The Staircase, which is sort of like a documentary miniseries about a single case, is on Youtube. Really excellent, but not widely seen. 8.3 on imdb.
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Aug 3, 2014 16:01
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DrVenkman posted:There was. The early case summary noted that the bank looked 'slicked off' as if someone had tried washing something away. Ok that's vague enough however the police went back and sprayed Luminol around the crime scene which highlighted the blood. You can see the pictures here http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img2/luminol_photos.html - they also reported that after eliminating any blood patterns that pointed to blood being spilled in the process of the bodies being moved, they found more than enough blood to indicate that something happened at the ditch. The issue in court came around asking the question of 'visible blood', of which there was none. But again that's what the luminol testing was for. Whoa, I guess I was mislead by the documentaries that we are currently talking about in this thread because they told me that there was no blood at the crime scene.
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Aug 4, 2014 10:07
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Guy asks for nature documentaries, and you all point him to crime dramas. The Art of Flight is a cool one if you just want to see some crazy scenery. They go down to Patagonia and hit up some really beautiful places in South America, New Zealand, Alaska, Canada, etc.
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Aug 4, 2014 10:27
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bunky posted:Whoa, I guess I was mislead by the documentaries that we are currently talking about in this thread because they told me that there was no blood at the crime scene. It's a strange issue because, no matter how it's put, there was blood at the crime scene. However the judge eventually came to the decision that he couldn't allow the luminol testing - that site has the transcript of that conversation with the lawyers - but I'm not entirely sure why. He rules it's not 'strong' enough to be used as evidence against the three, but concedes that it does show blood was at the scene. It was actually one of the decisions that the judge made in favour of the defence, but it's left out of the movie (As is the whole blood issue). Having watched the second movie again I've come away with a bit more of a sour take on it, mainly because it does spend so long going "look at this guy!" in regards to Byers. He's clearly attention seeking and either the film-makers were sucked in by it or just documented it in lieu of anything else. By all accounts it was known for a while that Byers was having his teeth removed and replaced with dentures but the movie still frames it as 'There's teeth marks on the body...Oh my God this guy suddenly had his teeth removed!'. I think the first movie works as well as it does because they just document what's happening, the second and third movies instead want to play detective, to their detriment. Anyway. Everyone should watch 'Art of Flight' because it's gorgeous to look at and if you want a thorough look at how movies and their sequels are made, watch 'Never Sleep Again'. It's a great, candid, look at all the Nightmare on Elm Street movies from almost everyone involved. Marvel as execs blame the creative teams for them forcing movies into production without finished scripts because they had to milk a franchise as quick as they could.
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Aug 4, 2014 13:20
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DrVenkman posted:if you want a thorough look at how movies and their sequels are made, watch 'Never Sleep Again'. It's a great, candid, look at all the Nightmare on Elm Street movies from almost everyone involved. Marvel as execs blame the creative teams for them forcing movies into production without finished scripts because they had to milk a franchise as quick as they could. Really loved this, and I believe it's on Netflix right now. Enjoyed the stuff about how the effects were done, especially the famous 'blood fountain from the bed' part from the first movie.
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Aug 4, 2014 14:29
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Kojiro posted:Really loved this, and I believe it's on Netflix right now. Enjoyed the stuff about how the effects were done, especially the famous 'blood fountain from the bed' part from the first movie. It's given me a new appreciation of Nightmare 5. It's still not a very good movie, but Stephen Hopkins tried bless him. Being hired in February for an August release date and working without a finished script couldn't have been easy. Then Bob Shaye just shrugs it off with "Oh they didn't do a very good job with that one". Well no Bob, they probably did the best job they could with New Line placing those constraints on them. The whole section about Nightmare 2 is great though and I love it seemed to get through production without people really realising the very heavy gay slant it had.
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Aug 4, 2014 14:50
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Volkerball posted:Guy asks for nature documentaries, and you all point him to crime dramas. Crime dramas document nature. Human nature.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:06
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DrVenkman posted:It's a strange issue because, no matter how it's put, there was blood at the crime scene. However the judge eventually came to the decision that he couldn't allow the luminol testing - that site has the transcript of that conversation with the lawyers - but I'm not entirely sure why. He rules it's not 'strong' enough to be used as evidence against the three, but concedes that it does show blood was at the scene. It was actually one of the decisions that the judge made in favour of the defence, but it's left out of the movie (As is the whole blood issue). Regarding the luminol testing, not only was it done after the fact, but was done in an area where the bodies were placed on the ditch. Deer urine (and other animal urine) reacts to luminol tests and deer were very prevalent in that area also. There's a reason the judge disallowed it. EDIT: I was mistaken here. A dump site would also produce trace evidence of blood. When supporters say "no blood was found at the crime scene" what they mean is "if 3 children were murdered RIGHT HERE and stabbed to death in a drunken Satanic ritual orgy, there'd be blood EVERYWHERE". Byers didn't do it either. Granted, he comes off as a crazy person (but so does everyone else in those films) and has copped to being drunk and on drugs for at least 10 years after the murders, but his known timeline and alibis don't fit nor does any of physical evidence link him to the crime. Why would Byers, were he guilty, suddenly flip sides and loudly turn into a supporter, write Damien letters of apology and fight for their releaseif he was confident that he already had other people locked up for something he did? The Kershaw knife is a red herring because none of the children were stabbed. Same with the lake knife found behind Jason's house. The deeper you get into this case, the more you have to apply Occam's razor because there's so such innuendo, heresay and shoddy police work that it's hard to know who or what to believe. Guess I need to drum an A/T thread but it's very daunting, has been done better elsewhere and, having followed the case so closely for so long, I have closed the book/turned the page on so many things it's hard for me to be objective. I guess I could C&P a bit of it but that's rather frowned upon on this site. Look at that denture impression and the rebar pattern I posted. That's the closest thing there is to a smoking gun, along with Hobbs' and Jacoby's DNA, the Natalie Maines deposition and Hobbs placing himself at the crime scene at the time the murders were supposedly committed. If the WM3 did it, they're criminal masterminds. Do they strike any of you as tremendously bright or clever? Volkerball posted:Guy asks for nature documentaries, and you all point him to crime dramas. Old Tennis Court about 20 posts up asked for True Crime movies. Probably most of us were replying to that dude. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 18:50
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Volkerball posted:Guy asks for nature documentaries, and you all point him to crime dramas. The Art of Flight is a cool one if you just want to see some crazy scenery. They go down to Patagonia and hit up some really beautiful places in South America, New Zealand, Alaska, Canada, etc. That is hilarious....I read it wrong. I thought he was looking for regular documentaries but could only find nature documentaries. Well my post still stands, The Staircase is good poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:14
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I really enjoyed Never Sleep Again, even though the only NoES movies I've seen are the original and New Nightmare. It's just a really interesting look into how movies are made, especially those with basically no money.
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Aug 5, 2014 11:23
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ManOfTheYear posted:What are the besst documentaries on youtube? I'm trying to find decent nature documentaries but jesus all this national geographic or history channel stuff is just retarded bullshit. I'd like to point out that Fog of War is also available on youtube and is one of the best things ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwXF6UdkeI4 Also more nature-related, but just bearely, the Grizzly Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8MjDyfcMmU Ps. Watch everything else by Errol and Herzog too.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:32
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mobby_6kl posted:I'd like to point out that Fog of War is also available on youtube and is one of the best things ever: Also more nature-related, but just bearely, the Grizzly Man: 
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Aug 5, 2014 20:50
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Finally watching The Fog of War. Holy poo poo. 
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Aug 7, 2014 04:40
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I'm 15 minutes into Nixon by Nixon: in his own words on Hbo Go and holy poo poo this is loving incredible. Its a documentary about the secret classified Nixon tapes from the white house and all the poo poo he talk. I had no idea he loving hated jews so much goddamn.
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Aug 7, 2014 05:53
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Just finished "Searching for Sugar Man". Spectacular documentary. Really showcases such a weird, weird life this guy Rodriguez had.
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Aug 7, 2014 06:20
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mobby_6kl posted:I'd like to point out that Fog of War is also available on youtube and is one of the best things ever: Grizzly man was definitively interesting. Good movie, but the guy was an absolute nut.
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Aug 7, 2014 06:21
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mobby_6kl posted:I'd like to point out that Fog of War is also available on youtube and is one of the best things ever: This is one of the best documentaries I've watched in quite some time. Another one i watched recently and highly recommend is The Unknown Known made by the same guy (Errol Morris) about Donald Rumsfeld. edit: I really like the part where he pretty much admits that if Bush didin't name some idiot politician to run the temporary Iraq government who in his infinite wisdom decided to fire the whole iraqi army among other great ideas against the wishes of the Pentagon. (200000+ armed, trained and jobless iraqis who basically turned into the resistance/terrorists/whatever after a short while). He also fired basically all of the existing civilian government there that led the country to being run by people who had zero experience in running a country. Doikor fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 20:44
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I think I would kick my TV out the window if i had to sit there and watch that smug fucker for an hour.
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Aug 7, 2014 20:45
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I think I would kick my TV out the window if i had to sit there and watch that smug fucker for an hour.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:05
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DrVenkman posted:... if you want a thorough look at how movies and their sequels are made, watch 'Never Sleep Again'. It's a great, candid, look at all the Nightmare on Elm Street movies from almost everyone involved. Marvel as execs blame the creative teams for them forcing movies into production without finished scripts because they had to milk a franchise as quick as they could.
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Aug 8, 2014 06:20
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appleskates posted:Hey this movie is FOUR HOURS LONG by the way. We made it about 45 minutes in before my partner (who doesn't especially like horror movies) asked me to save it for the gym or when he is at work or something. How can anyone make a four-hour long movie about anything?!? It is really good though. I can't wait to get to part 3, The Dream Warrior. That one is my favorite. The Friday the 13th one is 7 hours. The stuff about Part 3 is pretty good, though I had to laugh that Wes couldn't be involved because he was about to start Deadly Friend. It's a shame they couldn't talk to Darabont though, who hasn't really done much interviews about his horror days.
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Aug 8, 2014 12:01
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appleskates posted:Hey this movie is FOUR HOURS LONG by the way. We made it about 45 minutes in before my partner (who doesn't especially like horror movies) asked me to save it for the gym or when he is at work or something. How can anyone make a four-hour long movie about anything?!? It is really good though. I can't wait to get to part 3, The Dream Warrior. That one is my favorite. There are lots of great four hour movies.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:56
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:There are lots of great four hour movies. Once Upon a Time in America--by far my favorite gangster movie. Absolutely epic film. I think it's better than The Godfather.
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Aug 8, 2014 19:25
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BiggerBoat posted:Regarding the luminol testing, not only was it done after the fact, but was done in an area where the bodies were placed on the ditch. Deer urine (and other animal urine) reacts to luminol tests and deer were very prevalent in that area also. There's a reason the judge disallowed it. The West Memphis 3 case is fascinating. For me the thing that stands out is Misskelley confessing many times over a period of months to prosecutors, police, and in private with his own defense. I've heard of false confessions after long hours of interrogation but he came out with this after about 2 and half hours and stuck with it despite his lawyer pleading with him to shut up. Also, both Misskelley and Echols revealed details about the murder before they were known to the public or to the detectives. Misskelley knew that a boy had been cut on the face, and that only one boy had been sexually mutilated. Echols said something about urine in the mouth/stomach before it was found in the autopsy. People get super emotionally invested in the case because of the whole heavy metal loving teens getting railroaded in Arkansas angle. poo poo ain't black and white, sometimes the nice guy living next door is Ted Bundy or BTK and sometimes the kid dressed up in black is Dylan Klebold or these three.
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Aug 8, 2014 19:26
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Cats LOVE Cigars! posted:Also, both Misskelley and Echols revealed details about the murder before they were known to the public or to the detectives. No they didn't. Cats LOVE Cigars! posted:Misskelley knew that a boy had been cut on the face, and that only one boy had been sexually mutilated. Neither of those things happened. Cats LOVE Cigars! posted:Echols said something about urine in the mouth/stomach before it was found in the autopsy. There was no urine found in anyone's stomachs.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:10
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Hey y'all, does anyone have any good recommendations for movies on philosophy, theology, or mysticism? I really liked Waking Life (not really technically a documentary, I guess) and Into Great Silence, about life in a monastery in the French Alps (definitely not for everyone). I just really like meditative/contemplative films, especially if they've got some heady philosophy to absorb. Edit - Also, any good funny, feel-good documentaries along the lines of Hands on a Hard Body, King of Kong, Spellbound, Best Worst Movie, etc? I work full time on a suicide hotline, so I need some good pick-me-up movies to have on file. Thanks!!! discoukulele fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 20:51
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BiggerBoat posted:No they didn't. Yeah there's some major leaps going on there. I'm sure some of the most venimous anti-WM3 sites cite that stuff but it's all bullshit. There's still the talk that Echols 'confessed' to some people before he was arrested, but it's only going to be conjecture at this point. The 'Miskelley was questioned for 12 hours before he confessed' angle is one of those things that's oft repeated without being true though. He's interviewed from what, 10am? And by 2pm he's talking about the crime. The police do go on interviewing him on and off that day, but it's a fallacy to say that there was 12 hours of questioning before he admits to it. Hell, Miskelley's lawyers hired an interrogation expert who had to admit that actually, the questioning wasn't excessive. From his cross-examination. quote:Davis: Okay. And would it be accurate to say that when you train officers to conduct interrogations that you tell them that, at a minimum, in an important case, that you want them to go 4 hours, uninterrupted, with a suspect? It's fair enough to question the detail of his confession (He does actually state that the one boy was cut in the face) but the titlecard in PL2 "...and was questioned for 12 hours" is a carefully worded lie, as is the idea that he was denied access to his parents (His Father met with WMPD twice that day) and that he was denied access to legal representation (He was offered it 3 times before he confesses).
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Aug 8, 2014 20:55
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Jessie Misskelley, a dude with a 70-ish IQ was interrogated long enough (who cares if it was actually a full 12 hours) for him to admit exactly what the detectives needed him to say. That's what cops do. His confession was the crux of the trial. Misskelley wasn't friends with Damien and Jason; they were hardly acquaintances. Misskelley didn't even know what time the murders took place until detectives planted it in his testimony.
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Aug 9, 2014 10:11
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The cop seemed to talk him into changing his statement on pretty crucial things like the time, and such. I hadn't heard anything about him confessing at any other point either- heck, he even refused to testify in the trial for the other two kids. Is West of Memphis available streaming anywhere?
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Aug 9, 2014 15:02
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bunky posted:Jessie Misskelley, a dude with a 70-ish IQ was interrogated long enough (who cares if it was actually a full 12 hours) for him to admit exactly what the detectives needed him to say. That's what cops do. His confession was the crux of the trial. Misskelley wasn't friends with Damien and Jason; they were hardly acquaintances. Misskelley didn't even know what time the murders took place until detectives planted it in his testimony. It matters if it's a full 12 hours or not because one of the big soundbites of the whole thing is that he was questioned for 12 hours, not allowed access to his parents and denied a lawyer, therefore he must be totally innocent and everything recanted. The problem is that those 3 things are repeated again and again but are not true. Saying he goes into the police station at 10am and isn't questioned any longer than two hours at a time (He's interviewed for an hour, then his father signs off on a polygraph, Miskelley takes the polygraph and then is questioned again) doesn't quite have the same ring to it. The real truth of the matter is that there's not enough to convict them and sadly there's not enough to say they definitely didn't do it either. Personally, yes I think they're innocent, but for my own curiosity I like to look at what's widely reported (That 12 hour confessions has been recently blooming to over 18 hours by the way) and what actually happened. For what it's worth, for all the talk of police coercing him into saying what they want, Miskelley actually incriminates himself more in his initial confession and says that he tried to stop one of the boys escaping. It's a while after that he changes his story to say that he left before anyone was killed. He also repeats his initial confession when he meets with his defence lawyer, and doesn't recant it until some sixteen weeks later when Echol's defence team bring up the idea of a false confession. He then maintains that they did it when he meets with his lawyer privately in February of 94, much to his Lawyer's chargrin. That transcript is here for anyone who wants it http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img2/jm_2_8_94_statement.html I just find it interesting that we take for granted that everything in those movies happened the way that they want us to think they did. We see a title card and just accept that it's true. DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 17:38
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DrVenkman posted:
I don't know if this is directed at me, but I know the police manipulated Misskelley by reading the transcripts. He initially says that they went into the woods at 9am and that the young boys skipped school (they didn't). Then he says noon. Then he later meanders between entering the woods between 6:30 and 7:00 PM while obviously trying to give Ridge the answers he wants to hear. Jessie also claims to have left the scene about four times, probably because he doesn't want to implicate himself further in these lies, but that's not the story the dectivies want, so they push him further. They had no evidence other than a retarded kid's testimony that was less of a confession and more of a satanic fairy tale drawn up by bored hillbilly cops.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:30
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bunky posted:I don't know if this is directed at me, but I know the police manipulated Misskelley by reading the transcripts. He initially says that they went into the woods at 9am and that the young boys skipped school (they didn't). Then he says noon. Then he later meanders between entering the woods between 6:30 and 7:00 PM while obviously trying to give Ridge the answers he wants to hear. Jessie also claims to have left the scene about four times, probably because he doesn't want to implicate himself further in these lies, but that's not the story the dectivies want, so they push him further. They had no evidence other than a retarded kid's testimony that was less of a confession and more of a satanic fairy tale drawn up by bored hillbilly cops. No, sorry it wasn't directed at you. I took the same for granted that it's as the movie says and he was questioned over 12 hours with no representation etc. It's more the fiction around the case that makes me curious, like the issue of Echols psych file. To play Devil's Advocate, in regards to his initial confession, Miskelley seems muddled on his times and the cops establish that fact because he says he received a call that morning, that he was in the woods that morning and that he had a call that evening. In his initial confession itself there's nothing more untoward than police doing what they do and actually trying to establish something. I agree that if his confession later suddenly gains more clarity then it's likely he's being prodded in the right direction. What doesn't make sense to me is that he maintains his guilt to his defence lawyer, right until February of 94. There's also the thorny issue of their alibis, though West of Memphis claimed that Jennifer Bearden wasn't allowed to testify, which also isn't true. Her Alibi contradicted Echol's own one. As was noted earlier, the problem with the case is that there's lies coming from both sides, there's shoddy police work and the whole thing is clouded in myth that it's hard to parse what's true and what's not. It's too easy to make the assumption that anything that goes against the 3 is the result of shady cops or intimidated witnesses just as it's easy to make the claim that a hole in a story means that they did it.
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Aug 10, 2014 13:22
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Doikor posted:This is one of the best documentaries I've watched in quite some time. This arrived from Netflix yesterday and I popped it in pretty quickly. I found it kind of empowering in the sense that if I have any sense of a foreign doctrine, I can confidently say it's not that guy's. Little of it is surprising but it's fascinating to witness an individual so convinced by his dumb aphorisms that being rational about what could happen doesn't account for all the crazy nonsense the imagination can conjure up. Fog of War is the easy comparison but I think Morris's work at large is in part about exposing these myths we like to create about ourselves. In Mr. Death a perfectly weird but rather affable schmo becomes a holocaust denier pretty much because he fits in. McNamara and Rumsfeld speak in riddles like it's the only way to maintain their sanity. Standard Operating Procedure shows us that wartime practices are oversimplified by both the press and the military in wildly different directions. Morris is a champion of the medium because he respects the environment of chaos the truth calls home, and with that awareness he can really start investigating human nature like no one else.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:20
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mobby_6kl posted:I'd like to point out that Fog of War is also available on youtube and is one of the best things ever: I found this utterly fascinating. It's well produced, and Robert McNamara seems pretty candid about his experiences and his motivations. I think it's easy to look through the lens of a history book and lose the humanity of the people involved, with all the fallibility and the contradictions and the mistakes and the intentions that go with it; this definitely makes me look at McNamara more as a person than as a figurehead in relation to the world around him at the time. It also makes me think LBJ was a son of a bitch and it's an utter tragedy we lost JFK.
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Aug 10, 2014 20:55
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Mo_Steel posted:this definitely makes me look at McNamara more as a person than as a figurehead in relation to the world around him at the time. It was a very good documentary, but he is a politician first and foremost. He is a slick character that can manipulate an interview like nobodies business.
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Aug 11, 2014 01:42
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I watched Jodorowsky's Dune this weekend and it was amazing, does anyone know of other similar documentaries about films that were never completed such as this one and Lost in La Mancha (which was also great)?
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Aug 11, 2014 15:30
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Dr.Caligari posted:Not only do I want to hear more, but I think this deserves an ask/tell or some other thread of it's own (surprised we don't have a WM3 thread already actually) DrVenkman posted:I agree it probably needs a thread of its own somewhere though so we don't derail this thread. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:BiggerBoat an A/T thread would be awesome. Thy will be done: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3657059 Can you guys C&P your questions over there to get it going (or do you mind if I do)? I may just drag and drop our exchanges from this thread over there to light a fire. With your permission of course.
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Aug 11, 2014 20:36
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