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kcroy posted:the Wild Cards scene where Dr. Tachyon is turned into a 16 year old girl and then raped by his own nephew  I guess I was wrong to stop reading wild cards after fortunato. Imma head on overto that thread now peace
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Aug 3, 2014 13:03
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jsoh posted:arya playing sansa in the in universe play about the first three books GRRM said, when he released that chapter, that he had orignally written it back in the 90's or something.
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Aug 3, 2014 13:38
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Damo posted:ASoIaF: It cuts off right when you get to the interesting part, though. ASoIaF: Blue balls for years
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Aug 3, 2014 15:24
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ASoIaF: The literary equivalent of edging
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Aug 3, 2014 15:33
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Syrio Forell is a faceless man 
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Aug 3, 2014 18:05
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Pretty sure Jon "dying" will make the show watchers go bananas.
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Aug 3, 2014 18:21
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jsoh posted:frey pies and arya playing sansa in the in universe play about the first three books are pretty cool things. Yeah, seriously. I thought Cersei's entire arc in AFFC was pretty great and will play pretty well on TV. Maybe there isn't anything I can think of that I want to see reaction videos of but there are certainly great climactic moments. It'll be pretty awesome when the poo poo hits the fan and Cersei gets arrested by the faith - that's a fairly intense moment. I think the Griff/Prince Aegon reveal with Tyrion could be a great moment. Obviously Wyman Manderly's reveal to Davos and the "mummer's farce" in court with the Freys and little Wylla speaking up is one of my favorite scenes for some reason. Just a lot going on, really. The other thing to remember is that the show is not the books, and thus not locked into a single perspective. There is a *lot* going on in King's Landing in books 4/5, we are just not privy to it because Cersei is a self-absorbed drunk paranoid madwoman. I'm sort of hoping that we'll get to see more of what the High Septon's motivations are, and I'm also expecting the Sand Snakes to actually arrive at court and start interacting a lot sooner on the show than in the books; I don't think they made a big deal about casting these actresses for these roles if we're only getting glimpses of them. So what am I trying to say? The show has been diverging more and more from the books in terms of chronology, and that will reach its apex here. I think inevitably there are going to be new scenes in the show (maybe specifically in Bran and Sansa's arcs, which I doubt they will just abandon for a season+) that will be entirely new to both show-watchers and book-readers, and we will have absolutely no clue what was thought up GRRM or what was thought up by D&D and there'll be a massively entertaining shitstorm on the internet.
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Aug 3, 2014 21:31
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I would expect the show to tighten up some of gurm's problematic pacing. Maybe they leave themselves one or two big cliffhangers, but I doubt we'll get the multiple concurrent cliffhangers that you see at the end of ADWD. I'll bet they accelerate things so that one of the big battles we miss out on can be used as the big Episode 9 Extravaganza, for instance.
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Aug 3, 2014 22:05
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kaworu posted:So what am I trying to say? The show has been diverging more and more from the books in terms of chronology, and that will reach its apex here. I think inevitably there are going to be new scenes in the show (maybe specifically in Bran and Sansa's arcs, which I doubt they will just abandon for a season+) that will be entirely new to both show-watchers and book-readers, and we will have absolutely no clue what was thought up GRRM or what was thought up by D&D and there'll be a massively entertaining shitstorm on the internet. Don't let them spoil the books, GRRM! 
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Aug 3, 2014 22:26
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What the hell do we know about Ned's momma? What are the most entertaining crackpot theories related to what little is known?
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Aug 4, 2014 02:57
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tehk posted:What the hell do we know about Ned's momma? What are the most entertaining crackpot theories related to what little is known? The main one I remember from the Huis Clos guy was that she was a wildling? Maybe. And that Rhaegar knew that and intended to join her wildling blood to the Targaryen line for... reasons blah blah blah that's why it's Song of Ice and Fire.
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Aug 4, 2014 05:24
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tehk posted:What the hell do we know about Ned's momma? What are the most entertaining crackpot theories related to what little is known? It's Varys
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Aug 4, 2014 10:33
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savinhill posted:It's Varys He's been a mermaid pretending to be a merman this whole time.
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Aug 4, 2014 10:36
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The length (relative to what happens) is definitely a problem for the later books. I always thought I had hardly read any of Dance when it came out. But when I looked through the chapter synopses recently I realized I had read an entire novel's worth of pages, which was barely a dent in Dance, before getting bored and losing interest.
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Aug 4, 2014 20:38
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A lot happens in Feast and Dance, but it's masked by the point of view of characters who are observers instead of agents. There were a lot of observer characters in the first three books, and they were (not coincidentally) some of the more boring chapters to read (eg Sansa, Cat) but they were offset by chapters where the point-of-view character was making things happen (eg Tyrion, Theon). Probably the largest problem with books four and five is that those agents were stripped of their power and became pure observers, and very few new characters have any sort of agency at all. Those that do, like Cersei and (early on) Arienne, are blind to what's happening, and it's left to the reader to read between the lines and figure out all the poo poo that's happening behind the scenes, like Lady Merryweather playing Cersei and Manderley getting revenge on the Freys. From a technical standpoint, it's actually a pretty impressive slight-of-hand on the part of Martin: it isn't easy writing from a point of view that sees something but doesn't understand it, while leaving enough clues for the reader to piece things together.* But that doesn't mean it's compelling or even necessary. Had all (or any) of it added up to an actual climax, it could've been brilliant, but of course that didn't happen, and the decision to move the two major battles into the next book was a hideous editorial misstep. Even Clash, which was by far the most meandering of the first three books, at least had the Blackwater. Anyway. My point was that I agree with kaworu--the show being free of POV limitations means that we're probably going to get to see see all the plot happening without having it filtered through observers, and I'm looking forward to these next couple of seasons exactly because of that. A lot of cool poo poo really does happen, and I bet that the showrunners are smart enough to end the seasons strong. Can't wait. *Clues that readers who are UV on the spectrum make incredibly tenuous connections between like all that bullshit in the Hois Clois or whatever the gently caress that thing's called. Asbury fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Aug 4, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 21:31
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ADWD is a bad, naughty book and should be punished.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:16
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tehk posted:What the hell do we know about Ned's momma? What are the most entertaining crackpot theories related to what little is known?
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Aug 4, 2014 22:20
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3Romeo posted:There were a lot of observer characters in the first three books, and they were (not coincidentally) some of the more boring chapters to read (eg Sansa, Cat) I think that this is totally personal, but I think a lot of the reason I enjoy Feast and Dance more than the consensus seems is that I don't mind observers as far as perspective goes, and in fact sometimes prefer it. Sansa and Cat were my favorite characters/chapters. Not really excusing GURM though because the reason the first book works so well is that there is a good balance between the two. That balance is not present in the last two in the series.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:43
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:Sansa and Cat were my favorite characters/chapters. What in the heck?
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Aug 5, 2014 00:24
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kcroy posted:the Wild Cards scene where Dr. Tachyon is turned into a 16 year old girl and then raped by his own nephew that brought him to old Nick's attention.. but I digress. Somehow I get the feeling GRRM insisted that part absolutely HAD to be in the book.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:28
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TK-42-1 posted:What in the heck?  I really like the way Cat is characterized and empathized with her the most in the series. Not necessarily her worldview which is dramatically different from mine, but I think that added to it. Especially in the books, where she's both a part of the system but desperately trying to make good on what's going on around her. I appreciate the tragedy of her mistakes as well.Similar reasons for Sansa, though primarily because of how she grows as her naivete is winnowed away.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:59
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:
I agree with you about Cat generally, Sansa too. Both are characterized very well and I understand them a lot better when I try and see things from their perspectives. With that said, I was honestly pretty soured on Cat though after she told Jon "It should have been you" way back in AGoT. I mean, wow 
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Aug 5, 2014 01:20
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:
You nailed an important aspect here, and I'll take it a little farther and say that besides a balance of passive/active characters, there was also a balance inside the chapters. Let's look at Arya in Clash. For the first part of the book she's dragged around and doesn't do much; Yoren takes her, then the Mountain, then she winds up in Harrenhall. Throughout most of her arc in that book, she's a passive observer, but to a balance of some bland and uninteresting characters (Chiswyck) and to some very important ones (Roose). But throughout that, she still makes some things happen: Jaqen's murders, the soup incident, and her escape where she slits that guard's throat. There's a solid mix of seeing things and doing things, is what I'm saying. But compare that to Aero Hotah. He was written to be a camera, and the only thing of any interest he does is kill another camera (Oakheart). Both of those POVs were superfluous, when all we really needed was Arienne's: she convinces Oakheart, she gets captured, Doran tells her of his long-term plan to take down the Lannisters. That's her story across two books, and we didn't need three different POVs to show it. (Incidentally, the same thing applies to the Greyjoys.) I don't mind new POVs to the story--Davos' chapters in Clash and Jaime's chapters in Storm were great--but again, both of them had a good mix of doing things and seeing things. Theon's chapters in Dance were fantastic for that same reason; he was a neutral observer to the Frey/Manderley/Bolton intrigue, and he finally remembered himself in time to do something heroic. I don't particularly hate Feast and Dance (and the Ball of Beasts e-book does a good job of giving things a little more coherency), but--no news here--they're just unwieldy and incomplete. They're the second act of a story, and poo poo's supposed to get complicated, but second acts also generally end on a pivot that takes the story into act three, and almost every pivot (the Battle of Winterfell, the Battle of Mereen, Cersei's trial by combat, Jaime's brush with Stoneheart, the poo poo going on down at the Citadel) got pushed forward. I mean, there were some good turns and some good setups (Jon's stabbing; the start of Davos' quest to find Rickon), but too much went unanswered. Again, yeah, not exactly a novel opinion, I know. All tired "lol he'll never finish" jokes aside, Winds needs to be balls-deep action from start to finish to make the effort of Feast and Dance worthwhile.
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Aug 5, 2014 01:25
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I looked but haven't seen it mentioned, sorry if it was: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/136596-Game-of-Thrones-Author-Admits-Pressure-to-Finish-Books-Affect-Him quote:George R.R. Martin says he's "given up" on answering when the A Song of Ice and Fire novels will be finished, and confirms the pressure from both HBO and fans gets under his skin.  More loving whining. quote:Obligation is an odd word, I don't know if I would go with that word. I certainly feel a desire to finish the book. Well that sure is good to hear!
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Aug 5, 2014 02:29
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I'm surprised that HBO still pressures him. I figured that they're resigned to the fact that they're gonna be writing the last couple seasons without source material.
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Aug 5, 2014 02:40
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Not a drop of sympathy for the fat gently caress. He knew exactly what was coming for years and now he gets to pay the price. And so do we-- what started as a seriously above-average fantasy epic that could have really resonated for a long time to come is now all but consigned to end on a middling and disappointing note whether it's through the pallid echo of a show adaptation or GRRM ever plopping his fat rear end in front of a desk and grinding out the rest of the books.
mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 02:55
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mind the walrus posted:Not a drop of sympathy for the fat gently caress. He knew exactly what was coming for years and now he gets to pay the price. And so do we-- what started as a seriously above-average fantasy epic that could have really resonated for a long time to come is now all but consigned to end on a middling and disappointing note whether it's through the pallid echo of a show adaptation or GRRM every plopping his fat rear end in front of a desk and grinding out the rest of the books. But at least he has a desire to finish the next book! That's something! But really, that seriously pissed me off the most. Okay sure you're an artist and we don't deserve anything and blah blah we've heard it all before. But you know millions are waiting for this book, you couldn't buy your dumb loving theater without those fans, but hey, you have the desire to finish the next book! Sweet! I'm glad you have desire to work on the only thing you'll be remembered for you fat gently caress. BTW loved you at Comicon, really grinding that book out!
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Aug 5, 2014 03:05
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Even if you fully agree with Gaiman, Gurrm still signed away his story to HBO knowing full well how long Feast took him to write and how slowly he was progressing with Dance. 20 seconds of extrapolation should have clued him into how far behind he'd be after four or five seasons.
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Aug 5, 2014 11:21
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Junkenstein posted:Even if you fully agree with Gaiman, Gurrm still signed away his story to HBO knowing full well how long Feast took him to write and how slowly he was progressing with Dance. 20 seconds of extrapolation should have clued him into how far behind he'd be after four or five seasons.
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Aug 5, 2014 13:27
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Toplowtech posted:GURRM should just realize he created a franchise, and if he ever finishes the books, even if it's after the end of the show, it just mean another adaptation/reboot of some sort down the road with the "closer to the books" tag somewhere on the cover. Hell, an animated adapation would be nice. Unless he really hosed up when he sold the rights. Ralph Backshi could direct the animated version! Make it like Lord of the Rings and Wizards!!!
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Aug 5, 2014 15:51
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You missed the real gem in that article:quote:Martin also talks about his obligation in finishing the books, and that he's given up on answering the question "when it (the books) will be done?" since whenever he gave a time frame before and it didn't pan out, some people assume he's doing it deliberately. Not only that, but there's even a crazy conspiracy theory among book fans that Martin has the books already finished and is just releasing it in a timely manner to maximize profit, which the author calls as "crazy." I'd like to address this scurrilous rumor that I've actually been writing this whole time. It is absolutely not true.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:41
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Solice Kirsk posted:Ralph Backshi could direct the animated version! Make it like Lord of the Rings and Wizards!!! 
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Aug 5, 2014 19:00
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Yeah, like that but with 400% more pedophilia, 300% more dragons, and 5000% more food.
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Aug 5, 2014 21:15
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So ignoring GRRM's latest tirade and in an effort to guide this thread away from another splurge of "He's fat and HE'S GONNA DIE", what is eveyone's favorite scene from the books? Could be funny, serious, big political game-changer kind of stuff, but what sticks out to you the most when you think over them? I've got a lot but the one scene that jumps most to mind is at the end of Storm of Swords, when the Night's Watch is electing their new Lord Commander. Dolorous Edd is in the running because of some rear end in a top hat who keeps voting for him, and Edd makes a speech telling everyone he'd be a terrible choice, so don't waste your vote on him. Then on the next round of votes he gets two people's tokens. I literally had to put the book down and laugh after reading that.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:05
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That was really an excellent scene. Possibly the funniest thing in the books.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:07
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Pretty much all of Edd's lines are great. Edd is AA confirmed.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:13
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That's an interesting question. I agree about that scene you mentioned being quite amusing - I also liked the people voting for Three-Finger-Hob repeatedly because they hate his cooking and just want him out of the kitchen. You know, it's odd, in fantasy books I tend to like the sequences when the characters earn a much-needed respite for a brief period of time, which are often the intervals when the most interesting dialogue and character development takes place. That said, GRRM doesn't really do this in his books, because there really are no "safe" places as such; even the locations that offer sanctuary to certain characters are generally hosed up or horrifyingly corrupt in some way. With this in mind somewhat, one location that actually seemed legitimately restful (and this portion of the book also felt like something of a break from awful crap going on everywhere) was The Quiet Isle. During a time when practically everywhere else in the riverlands and crownlands is just ravaged and hosed, there's this one little semi-secret place that's out of the way where these monks just silently go about their business, collect flotsam and jetsam, tend the vegetable garden, dig graves... I don't know. In a series full of absolute horrors that seem utterly inescapable it's nice to think there's this almost secret little island of cowled monks and they don't even know what's going on because they don't talk, and Elder Brother doesn't tell them the worst of the tidings from the outside world because the whole point is to escape all that. 'Tis a nice idea.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:28
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The best scene in this entire series is when Hodor's manhood hangs long and heavy, glistening in the morning sunlight. Aye, there's some giant's blood in him for sure.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:28
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No scene beats The Shittening.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:36
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Bronn naming his heir Tyrion was pretty hilarious. Manderley breaking out his The North Remembers was pretty excellent as well.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:38
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