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Veyrall posted:I've never played Suicide Black before, so I might be way off with some of these cards.
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Aug 3, 2014 17:34
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BaiSha posted:
Hmm, the main issue I see with this card is that black suicide tends to involve an all in strategy. Let's say you were to take away the option to do anything but pay life, then that would be suicide black because you're committing to the fact that you're playing that guy, no matter how disastrous. So I'm going to recommend to keep it simple and forget vanishing, just make it lose 2 life on each of your turns. vegetables posted:I think this is probably too weak: Just make it so that each player loses 1 life. Bam, now it's aggressive.  This card would go into another Phyrexian themed set with Phyrexian mana or other stuff that makes you benefit from paying life. It's a bit underpowered for regular creatures, on the curve with infect, so I think it works out well as an uncommon build around. Ramos fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Aug 3, 2014 |
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Aug 3, 2014 17:46
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This isn't a serious entry to the contest, but it's definitely something that could have been printed in '94.
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Aug 3, 2014 19:41
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 Disfigure, temporary Gruesome Deformity, and some black burn, all at the price of two life.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:24
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 I forgot about a similar card until I uploaded this one. I'm not sure whether the lower mana cost is an even tradeoff for being poisoned. On the other hand, I like the flavor of this one a little more.
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Aug 4, 2014 01:00
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  The internet has some seriously unfortunate vampire art. I had to go with the art without gratuitous boobs, even though it doesn't show flying. Sorry about that.
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Aug 4, 2014 03:52
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Zephirum posted:
Assuming this card is printed in a set where poison exists (ie. New Phyrexia 2: Electric Boogaloo), this could probably cost BB and have no poison threshold requirement given that unlike its predecessor it can't hit opponents.
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Aug 4, 2014 04:10
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Mikujin posted:Assuming this card is printed in a set where poison exists (ie. New Phyrexia 2: Electric Boogaloo), this could probably cost BB and have no poison threshold requirement given that unlike its predecessor it can't hit opponents. But in Modern or whatever that'd read "BB: Draw 3" unless you're playing against infect.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:33
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Mikujin posted:Assuming this card is printed in a set where poison exists (ie. New Phyrexia 2: Electric Boogaloo), this could probably cost BB and have no poison threshold requirement given that unlike its predecessor it can't hit opponents. I dunno. Obviously, such a card (BB: 3 cards and 3 poison) would never be printed outside Phyrexia II: Infect Harder. However, if it were, it would warp the environment towards Infect, because it would be so strong against non-infect. Of course, they might decide to not give black any infect for *storyline reasons*, which would create a tension between black and infect. In Modern, infect is a thing and it probably always will be (2 of the top 8 in Worcester were infect). Still, 3 cards for 2 mana is big even in Modern, so this would likewise warp the environment.
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Aug 4, 2014 07:30
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BW Leeches.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:37
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Mikujin posted:Firstly, Tribal is not a super-type that is ever likely to return (sorry!) - right up there with stuff like Storm. Secondly, a triple black Sorcery speed tutor should not have such a crippling drawback when compared to other 'standard' tutor effects (which are normally 4 CMC with no drawback).  How about a tutor that encourages you to kill yourself? Also, I had no idea how to template this effect, so any help on that front would totally get good karma from me. 
Veyrall fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 4, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 17:37
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Veyrall posted:
This feels much less like suicide black and more like a borderline unplayable tutor. If you're at 1 life, short of something like Reverse the Sands, a tutor isn't what you need. Templating seems fine though. I doubt there'd be a significant difference if you made it "~ costs 1 more for every life you have"
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Aug 4, 2014 17:54
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That doesn't really seem very Suicide black... Suicide black usually gives you an advantage at the cost of killing you, this kills your opponents and encourages you to not attack (on the ground anyway).
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Aug 4, 2014 19:50
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Yeah, I am really only now starting to grasp how Suicide Black is supposed to play. It's a very specific archetype, it seems. Let's try this revised design.  And one last attempt at getting it. 
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Aug 4, 2014 20:16
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suiBlack would never play tutors. suiBlack would never spend its turn two casting anything other than something like Skittering Skirge or Flesh Reaver. If suiBlack wants card advantage/quality at all, it's probably only something like Sign in Blood, which can go to the dome in a pinch.
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Aug 4, 2014 20:19
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Eh, the best way I've had suicide black described to me was "You rip off your arm and then beat the other person to death before you bleed out." There's really nothing clever about it, in fact, you're pretty stupid for doing it. But that's how it goes, just an all in sort of play driven to just win. These cards can (and often should) require careful consideration and calculation when using them, but the card flavor itself shouldn't, a la "Can you count to 20 in burn?". edit:  Rakdos in general is a good example of the suicide approach to strategy. Ramos fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 21:03
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Veyrall posted:Yeah, I am really only now starting to grasp how Suicide Black is supposed to play. It's a very specific archetype, it seems. Let's try this revised design. That's basically Death Wish 
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Aug 4, 2014 21:42
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You know what Rakdos hates? Life totals and having cards in hand!
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Aug 4, 2014 22:01
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Soviet Canuckistan posted:You know what Rakdos hates? Life totals and having cards in hand! Is upkeep before or after draw? I think this should hit you after you draw, or else it might not hurt you sometimes. Ramos posted:Eh, the best way I've had suicide black described to me was "You rip off your arm and then beat the other person to death before you bleed out." There's really nothing clever about it, in fact, you're pretty stupid for doing it. But that's how it goes, just an all in sort of play driven to just win. This is good, if a bit cheap for what it does. If you have good lands and at least 8 life, it untaps to be a 24 power creature with trample.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:31
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Gensuki posted:Is upkeep before or after draw? I think this should hit you after you draw, or else it might not hurt you sometimes. This won't hurt you if you don't have cards in hand at the start of your turn, since you draw after your upkeep. I'm fine with that, since trying to work around it just makes it wordier.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:58
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 Literally Suicide Black  Still waiting for Return to Kamigawa, Wizards, make it happen. (Couldn't find the artist, from a cursory reverse GIS, if someone is more familiar with that sort of thing, I'd be glad to give credit) Gensuki posted:Is upkeep before or after draw? I think this should hit you after you draw, or else it might not hurt you sometimes. Yes it is, it goes Untap Upkeep Draw. I like the card, because it might not hurt you indeed, if you play it well, as well as because it keeps to principle of having effects like that at upkeep, seeing how it'd be kinda wonky if it always either hurt you or hampered your tricks, if it triggered at the beginning of the main phase. That wasn't a good sentence, sorry.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:45
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Gensuki posted:This is good, if a bit cheap for what it does. If you have good lands and at least 8 life, it untaps to be a 24 power creature with trample. Good point. Ran some math, moved the numbers around on him.
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Aug 5, 2014 02:43
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Soviet Canuckistan posted:This won't hurt you if you don't have cards in hand at the start of your turn, since you draw after your upkeep. I'm fine with that, since trying to work around it just makes it wordier. Not much wordier. Just replace "upkeep" with "draw step".
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Aug 5, 2014 03:09
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Soviet Canuckistan posted:This won't hurt you if you don't have cards in hand at the start of your turn, since you draw after your upkeep. I'm fine with that, since trying to work around it just makes it wordier. I like that it doesn't hurt you if you're Hellbent. That's very Rakdos. Having it check cards in hand after the draw step means it will deal 1 damage no matter what, and that seems like an unnecessary drawback.
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Aug 5, 2014 03:14
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Dungeon Ecology posted:I like that it doesn't hurt you if you're Hellbent. That's very Rakdos. Having it check cards in hand after the draw step means it will deal 1 damage no matter what, and that seems like an unnecessary drawback. Unnecessary drawback, yes, Suicide Black, also yes. I'm not the judge, so I don't know how Sleep of Bronze feels on it, nor does my opinion necessarily affect anything, but making the card slightly worse in exchange for fitting the week's theme slightly better seems like a good thing to me.
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Aug 5, 2014 03:28
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 (This one is my favorite of the cycle because it has the simplest wording) 
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Aug 5, 2014 07:37
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Sacrifices a number of creatures equal to the difference between... Loses life equal to the difference between... The last one is weirdest because it suggests continuous incremental life loss in instances of 1 until that number matches your life total, as opposed to one large chunk of life (triggering only one instance of life lost).
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Aug 5, 2014 08:00
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The last one, if I understand it properly, should be phrased like this card. First one I like, second one doesn't feel suicide black, the third strikes me as overpowered.
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Aug 5, 2014 08:03
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None of those seem suicide black. They combo with the archetype pretty well, but none of them give you any kind of positive advantage, and none of them require you to pay an extra cost for their power.
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Aug 5, 2014 10:41
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Gensuki posted:Unnecessary drawback, yes, Suicide Black, also yes. I don't usually offer opinions before the end, but I might as well put in that I'm OK with this one. If it were more expensive and you were more likely to be hellbent by the time it got down, I'd likely prefer the draw step phrase - though then the drawback is just too small for the boost to be especially significant - but I think it's fine on a 2 mana creature. Suicide Black can get away with negating its disadvantages (e.g. Carnophage), it just can't be too cavalier about it. (That said, I think I would develop the card slightly differently. I won't actually say how though, because I think that's offering too much help.  )
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Aug 5, 2014 13:07
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Aug 5, 2014 16:10
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You might want to clarify that the +2/+2 stacks with the +1/+1.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:42
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This deeply misunderstands suiBlack even while topically aping one of its best cards (Flesh Reaver) and also isn't a Vampire despite having the 'vampire' mechanic from Zendikar. It should probably be closer to that Oni that was posted allll the way back in the very first contest: Bloodfeeder B Creature - Vampire Horror Trample Whenever Bloodfeeder deals combat damage, you lose two life As long as you have 10 or less life, Bloodfeeder gets +2/+2. 2/2 Now it's actually closer to a suiBlack card, and as a side-note, actually beats the curve.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:48
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Oh huh, it is a lot weaker than flesh reaver. I thought there was already a card like that but I couldn't find it. I guess I can tweak the starting p/t or the bonus it gets. As a side note Zendikar vampires care about your opponents' life total, not your own
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Aug 5, 2014 18:17
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 Mmm, just like a banana. Ramos fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 23:29
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Costing suicide cards is pretty tough. I might have made the mana costs a bit too low.  
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Aug 6, 2014 00:00
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The instant's probably fine, since that was one of Orzhov Charm's modes. That demon seems like an awfully big set of numbers for a two drop, though.
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Aug 6, 2014 00:15
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U-DO Burger posted:Costing suicide cards is pretty tough. I might have made the mana costs a bit too low. 
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Aug 6, 2014 00:48
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Mine hits black creatures and uses the creature's power instead. Totally different. Heatwizard posted:The instant's probably fine, since that was one of Orzhov Charm's modes. That demon seems like an awfully big set of numbers for a two drop, though. Yeah, I wasn't sure about that one. I think it needs to stay at two mana because Suspending everything is going to be even worse if you start on turn 4, so maybe I should just lower its power to 4 or 5.
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Aug 6, 2014 00:54
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A 6/3 for 2 would be overpowered even if it said "At the beginning of your upkeep, bash your head against the table until it bleeds." On the other hand, a 4/3 flier for 2 that gives your opponent a Mindslaver? Useless.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:19
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