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Yoshi Jjang posted:Can someone give me some tips on what to look for when buying a set of Indian tablas? I'm no percussionist, but I am familiar with music, having played piano since elementary school. Ahhhhh, stop, hammertime. tl;dr: It's worth paying the extra to buy from a reputable dealer vice eBay; a novice won't know a good drum from lovely and you'll end up blaming yourself for the instrument's faults if you get a lemon. Tabla is pretty complex and worth reading up on, not simply "a drum", it's not impossible but it's harder than just learning basic hand drums. Let us know if you're more dead-set on playing solid traditional Indian classical, or if you just find tabla cool sounding and would be open to easier ways to get similar sounds for your jams. Longer answer follows photo  Re eBay tablas The huge portion of people selling Indian instruments online are just a ton of schmoes doing drop shipping and the like from just a handful of major factories/importers. That's largely why their pictures and often layouts are pretty identical. While it's not impossible that some of their stuff is decent, and the initial craftsmen may be okay at his job, the factory largely doesn't care about the final product so long as the sellers can keep moving them, and the sellers don't care unless the product is so egregiously lovely that eBay buyers scream at them and give them bad feedback. Much like in the ukulele thread, where we tell goons to absolutely look for the keyword "settup", you want to be confident that somebody who actually cares about tablas and their business's reputation amongst musicians has actually picked up your individual item, looked it over, played it a bit, made needed tweaks, etc. On eBay and the like, "professional" means jack poo poo. Most likely "I'll sell just about the same thing in hopes that some people will pay $20 because I call it Pro, and the people that pay $20 less will feel wise and thrifty". To one degree, buying used tabla wouldn't necessarily be bad (I think), but absolutely only if you're buying it from an actual musician, not from someone who bought it at an estate sale, or bought an eBay cheapie and is unloading it at half-price. Fundamentally, it'll be penny-wise and pound-foolish if you save a hundo or two on a set of tablas, and they end up gathering dust because they just aren't responding right to your playing. Like buying a cheap guitar with an action so high it throws off your pitch and hurts your fingers, or a beat-up oboe with leaky joints and bent keywork. I'm absolutely not at all saying don't buy inexpensive/used instruments, I'm saying that as a novice be sure whatever you buy, you're getting it from someone who knows about and cares about that instrument. Other dealers Are you in the US or elsewhere? If the US, the Ali Akbar College of Music in Berkeley is a respected outfit and runs their own store. They have brand-new solid quality Bombay-style tablas starting at $325, and occasionally have blemished but workable sets as low as $250. And they'll actually include all the proper accessories (which some drop-shippers may not know or care about, leaving it to you to figure it out). To generally read past threads to get a feel for where happy folks are buying from, I'd check http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewforum.php?f=3 (I've gotten great advice in their harmonium subforum), or pull up past threads on tabla from Drummerworld.com where you might get a more US/Euro view on the issue. Not advising you to go spending $800 for your first set, but if you managed to save up $175 for an eBay set, it's likely a very smart idea to save your pennies just a little longer for $250-300 to buy from a reputable dealer. Choosing tabla If you've read up a lot on tabla and you're sure that's what you want, by all means rock on. But if you're just generally aware of tablas from glancing around, it's important to realize that it's a bit misleading to think of tabla as "a drum" or "percussion". A tabla is a pitched percussion instrument, something you don't see as much in Western music except for the orchestral timpani. While you aren't exactly playing a melody on it, you aren't simply knocking out a rhythm like it was a snare drum either. So it's a bit of an involved instrument, and AFAIU far more than most drums you'd want to take at least some formal lessons on it. Are you wanting to take up tabla to get serious into playing Hindustani music with others? I'll defer to the actual players of Indian music, but if you find tabla a bit complex for a start and want to focus on rhythm, there are a number of Indian drums which are either unpitched or less-pitched and thus more forgiving to a beginner, like the dhol (double-head drum) and its many relatives. One option that I personally own and have messed with just a little, and is nicely affordable/durable/available and pretty cool is the kanjira. I believe I have a megapost on kanjira from around Dec'12-Jan'13. I haven't gotten back into it serious, but find it really fun to mess with. It's a Southern/Carnatic instrument, so if you're set on Hindustani/Northern it wouldn't be your thing, but if your current stance is just "I like what I hear of Indian music I run across casually, and want to play some kind of drum", trying Carnatic might not be a bad way to go. If your interest in tabla is more simply "tabla sounds cool" and you're fixing to play it in Western music for effect, a world percussion flavor, I would strongly suggest you shop around on some other instruments that might tickle your fancy. I play the udu some for bar gigs (Nigerian water pot), and a number of folks online compare it to tabla for the types of sounds/techniques that work on it, and it can also get a sound very similar to that deep "gloop-bloop" that makes tabla so distinctive. You can get good starter ceramic ones for under $100 from mainstream online music stores, though myself I have a fibreglass Meinl (paid around $125) since it's much lighter and I can toss it around at pub gigs without worrying about it. Udu would, no exaggeration, be my strongest recommendation for someone who "kinda wants to learn that tabla thing that sounds cool". That aside, there are a ton of drum options out there. If you post back giving a bit more detail about what your priorities are, I (and maybe Yiggy if he drops in) can give much more concrete advice. Just where you fall on the spectrum between "I really want to learn tabla since I idolise the work of Anindo Chatterjee and want to play in a Hindustani trio like he does and I want to start lessons in a month or so" or all the way to "I saw a tabla in a movie and it sounded awesome so I want something that sounds like that so I can jam out." This is a less-common modern double-udu drum, but even the traditional single-body udus can get tabla sound, I just picked this model since it also visually resembles tabla so I thought it cute. Here's a guy playing this model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FeC1SITxA8. Check out the tabla-esque sounds he does. 
TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 16:17
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Just recently got a pair of these. Got them from a guy named Rick Fogel for $18, here: http://www.whamdiddle.com/bones.html    These are Pine, because someone earlier in the thread said pine are quiet. Pine are not quiet. The Bones are not quiet. The Bones are loving loud as gently caress unless you have your knuckles as close to the top as possible, which makes the sound slightly less clacky, but still not quiet. They (Rhythm Bones? Or just Bones? i don't know) are cool as heck but so hard to play. Also I feel like one pair isn't enough. When will I sound like these guys? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxFZzqUCzoI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMokBr9cTxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU31eqwC3w4 If nobody saw the post earlier about them, the Bones are based off of cow rib bones / short ribs, so you can just get them from ribs if you really want, but I'm not sure if they work as well as handamde ones. Apparently you have to dry them out a fair amount before they clack right. Lavender Philtrum fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 01:00
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I feel like a lot of YouTube vids and books oversimplify bones. There is a lot of subtlety to how they are held and positioned, and also to adjusting the tension on your grip. It took me several months of constant practice before I could get a consistent sound. I kept them with me at all times in my messenger bag and practiced when I was on break at work, stuck on traffic, etc. Just be patient and keep practicing.
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Aug 7, 2014 01:09
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Lavender Philtrum posted:Just recently got a pair of these. Rick Fogel is the poo poo. He lives on a houseboat in Washington state and makes those bones and hammered dulcimers for a living. quote:These are Pine, because someone earlier in the thread said pine are quiet. Pine are not quiet. The Bones are not quiet. The Bones are loving loud as gently caress unless you have your knuckles as close to the top as possible, which makes the sound slightly less clacky, but still not quiet. Pine bones are quiet when compared to bones made of most other material. Compare them to a set of harder wood bones like ebony or rosewood and you'll notice a major difference between the two. If you want a truly quiet set for home/apartment practice, the quietest I know of are made of plastic/resin and modeled after goat ribs. Percussionist and pompous douchebag Aaron Plunkett makes them. quote:They (Rhythm Bones? Or just Bones? i don't know) are cool as heck but so hard to play. Also I feel like one pair isn't enough. Bones is the actual name. Rhythm bones is the trademarked name of the notched bones made by Joe Birl, but it's one of those trademarked name that has become genericised, like Jell-O or aspirin. Most people play with a set of bones in each hand, so yeah, one pair may not be enough. quote:If nobody saw the post earlier about them, the Bones are based off of cow rib bones / short ribs, so you can just get them from ribs if you really want, but I'm not sure if they work as well as handamde ones. Apparently you have to dry them out a fair amount before they clack right. You will want to go to the butcher's shop or remove them from the meat yourself before cooking to get them if you want to DIY a pair. Cooked bones won't work, they'll splinter and crack apart when playing and sound like poo poo before they do collapse. Also, if you make your own, be sure to do your cutting in a well ventilated area with a respirator/dust mask on and wet sand everything. Bone dust is toxic poo poo. laertes22 posted:I feel like a lot of YouTube vids and books oversimplify bones. There is a lot of subtlety to how they are held and positioned, and also to adjusting the tension on your grip. It took me several months of constant practice before I could get a consistent sound. I kept them with me at all times in my messenger bag and practiced when I was on break at work, stuck on traffic, etc. Just be patient and keep practicing. A million times, this. Most of the people playing in the videos (especially Dom Flemons) practiced for years before being good enough to play publicly. Also, if you're anything like me, putting them down for a few weeks will be enough to set you back several months. I picked up a pair a few weeks ago to gently caress around with the drummer in my band and it was like I'd never picked up a pair in my life. Anyone who tells you playing the bones is easy either forgot how long it took them to learn, is trying to be funny, or is just a loving prick.
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Aug 7, 2014 02:07
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Holy poo poo I think my bones technique was wrong. I was going right-handed and my middle finger was NOT LENGTHWISE ALONG ANY BONE, i had my index finger keeping it tight and my other fingers were basically slack except to hold the bones up. Then I watched those videos again and realized it's the middle finger that holds it down. Epiphany. Finally I get what they mean about how they follow the body movements and I get why they make those movements, this makes way more sense. I am soooo dumb.
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Aug 7, 2014 02:36
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Ahhhhh, stop, hammertime. That is so informative, thank you! I've been pondering about getting the tabla for years now. This isn't some sort of on a whim thing. I've been aware that it's a tonal instrument, and that's what draws me to it. But to be honest, I don't know much about Hindustani music, though, and I don't think I'll go far enough to actually take lessons, let alone pay for them. Fortunately, not only am I in the US, but Berkley is within reasonable driving distance. I'd love to check out that music store some day. Also, those udu drums sound totally badass. How different is the technique playing them compared to the tabla?
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Aug 7, 2014 09:45
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Hedningen posted:So talharpa update - I'm still waiting for the thing, and I have gotten no responses from the maker. So yeah, never buy from ArCane Lutherie. That must be really frustrating; have you tried multiple options to contact him (his personal email, his Facebook page, etc?). While even decent artists can be dirtbags sometimes, Nathan Sweet seems to have a pretty good online rep over the last few years. Not to excuse such delay, but it's possible he's had some health crisis or similar that's interrupted work. So I definitely would suggest a gradual good-faith effort to get a hold of him to ensure he's not just blowing you off. Pham Nuwen posted:I'm still waiting for my jouhikko You ordered from Nogy, right? While the delay is annoying he's a pretty trusty guy, serious enthusiast in the lyre community and pleasant person. I think he's just one of those cases of a "gentleman luthier" who has a day job and just chips away at luthiery work as a hobby, so the pace on such guys is generally slow. But really looking forward to seeing your result.  quote:(kantele kit) Update: we've glued everything together and are now sanding. Holy crap, be prepared for a lot of sanding. We don't have an electric sander, so we're doing it the old fashioned way with 60-grit glued to a block. For future projects, have you considered getting a small finger/thumb plane? That can be a much more efficient way to remove big overhangs on joints and all, "shaving" the excess wood off rather than abrading it off. Plus for joining pieces, a big advantage of a little finger plane is that you can get nice sharp angles with it, whereas sandpaper rounds out edges like melting soap (good in some cases, not in others).  quote:Wow that's a gorgeous looking set! I'm going to be getting a set from EJ Jones with the 4 drones and hopefully both A and D chanters if I can spare the coin. I haven't settled on a wood/mounts just yet. My initial leaning would be mopane with either blackwood or a black horn type of mount, but I think next email I get I'm going to ask him if he has any really cool/unique ideas for pipes that he's been wanting to make. I want something unique more than a specific look but I definitely want wood that is light enough to see the grain. I'm just so tired of seeing blackwood pipes with bland mounts. I really like mesquite; I think Dow was the first American to publicize it for smallpipes, and somewhere on the internet there's an old glowing paper he wrote on that wood. EJ Jones has done mesquite in the past, and Nate Banton got into it a few years back for smallpipes. It's very dimensionally stable so bores stay symmetrical over the years, and it's very lightweight which is good for the passel of stocks laying across your arm. I'd at least discuss the idea with Jones. Would look good with either very light or very dark mounts. I'd suggest talking to Jones a little about alternate tunings and the like, as he's above-average into those. Personally, though I'm a lovely smallpipes so play sackpipa instead, having the additional back-thumbhole to play in Am was amazing. And you can always temporarily plug that hole if you want to have just the standard holes, so it's really no additional hassle. Jones might also have some tricky little mods to drones allowing you to set them to unconventional combinations. Do you have a really clear reason for wanting a D chanter? Recall that the Amyx standard chanter does Dmaj just fine. A D chanter you'd mostly want for playing in Gmaj in whatever tradition. If you want a second chanter just for general shiggles, the C is an oft-overlooked option; fingers in Cmyx so can pull off Fmaj and the like. But you can always just get your set first and order others later. Did you intend to play SSP before, or did you get into them because of this thread? quote:I've been pondering about getting the tabla for years now. This isn't some sort of on a whim thing. I've been aware that it's a tonal instrument, and that's what draws me to it. But to be honest, I don't know much about Hindustani music, though, and I don't think I'll go far enough to actually take lessons, let alone pay for them. Okay, so you're aware of the tricky bits of tabla, but you aren't dead set on being a serious Hindustani guy. Especially if you're new to percussion (especially pitched percussion), I would really advise you get something simpler for your first go-round. Tabla is one of those instruments where they strongly, strongly advise actual formal training even at the beginning. Otherwise you'll end up just banging on out-of-tune heads until you get bored, and they'll gather dust. If you want to at least try tabla a little and see if it grabs you more than you expected, since you're right by the Akbar School, check in and see if they have any "Intro to Tabla" workshop for total noobs where they set out some basic drums and walk you through utter basics. Failing that, maybe you can take just a lesson or two (or share in a small group lesson with other noobs) with Akbar's pandit for tabla. That way you'd at least give a little shot at formal tabla to see if it grips you. If all that sounds too involved and pricey, and playing Hindustani isn't in your cards, then definitely picking a different cool drum would suit. I do genuinely think udu (also called "ibo") is the most tabla-like option. It is not at all a "tabla substitue", but it's an instrument that speaks to some of the same tonal varieties, though I do think it could convincingly sound "Indian" to an audience not used to Hindustani music. I think a lot of the similarity is the way it replicates both the high "tek" of the small drum, and that heel-strike "whoom" on the low drum. Do note, while there are a few modern-designed double udus, a single-body udu can sound just as tabla-like. It's not the doubling that gives the tabla effect, it's that big hole on the side and the hole in the neck, which allow you to tonally shape and change your pitch, and whomping the side hole just right with the palm gets that deep tabla "bloop". It's not so much that the technique is similar, since tabla is dealing with flexible heads and udu with a rigid body, so I'm not saying you could seamlessly move from one to the other, but there is a YouTube trend of people showing how to apply tabla techniques to other types of drums, and the skills from udu would translate better to other non-pitch world percussion than the more specific tabla skills would. Here's a neat clip of multi-udu playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ44TcvX5Q4 EDIT: here's the best example I can find of really tabla-esque udu playing. Watch for example around 0:21 when he gets those great "bloops" by hitting the hole with his palm. Again, I emphasize you don't have to buy a double to get these tabla sounds, so buy a double if you like but be aware a single can produce basically the same sounds too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FeC1SITxA8 EDIT2: lovely recording quality, but some good tonal work on the "utar", a flat-lying smushed udu that LP designed. I'm not totally clear what the advantages are of this layout, but they seem to sell just fine for the last decade or so. If I had to guess, it's because players of other drum types didn't like having to change to embracing a round pot, so wanted something that laid nice and flat so they were using a hand motion they're more accustomed to.  If you want the cheapest decent option, get the Meinl ceramic one that's like $70. If you want a double-udu, all the affordable ones I know are by LP (Latin Percussion) and ceramic. If you want an udu that you can toss in grocery sack and run around with all day, and not freak if it gets knocked off a table or falls of your bicycle, get a Meinl fiberglass one. They're like $130-150 on a good day; I would stay away from the one with the rawhide head just because it adds fragility, but what I do own and enjoy is the "Trio" model which is a standard udu but also adds a little flattened drumming surface on the side to allow additional sounds. Nice thing about udus is that they don't go out of tune or age poorly, so if you just play yours occasionally and toss it in and out of the closet, or leave it in the corner for decoration, it's no big deal. Also, there is an Indian relative called the ghatam, a clay pot used in Carnatic music and also in the Punjab. So your udu skills could still cross back to Indian down the road (cool ghatam clip), though ghatam lacks udu's awesome side-hole and is more a straight drum. If you watch some udu clips and just don't get into it, but still want to figure out a drum, poke your head back in and let us know what features you do/don't want in a drum, and we can talk djembe, ashiko, bongos, frame drums, kanjira, zarb, etc. EDIT: Udu still my top tabla-sub, but for drums in general, I really just haven't sold many goons on frame-drums in this thread. I think hand-played frame drums are really underrated in the Anglosphere. Aside from just sounding cool and a bit different from other hand drums, they come in several neat varieties (with snares, rattles, jangles, etc). Also logistically convenient in that even nice big ones are pretty affordable, and yet easy to carry and store since they're so slim. Anyone looking for hand drums and maybe right now torn between djembe vs dumbek or what have you, go peruse some frame drums on YouTube for a bit and see if any speak to you.  I would own a moderately-big basic Remo or Meinl frame drum (maybe with a snare or jangles on back), but instead I bought a Carnatic kanjira because it's really small but can put out great bass. Seriously, if you watch kanjira on YouTube on your laptop, it's kinda meh, but if you listen to it through a decent sound system it's night and day and sounds amazing. EDIT: Just switched on my bluetooth amp from my laptop, and the clip goes from "wait, why did I buy a kanjira again?" to "drat kanjira is awesome". You really need bass in your speakers to hear it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukn0UWHc6Kg TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 15:45
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I really like mesquite; I think Dow was the first American to publicize it for smallpipes, and somewhere on the internet there's an old glowing paper he wrote on that wood. EJ Jones has done mesquite in the past, and Nate Banton got into it a few years back for smallpipes. It's very dimensionally stable so bores stay symmetrical over the years, and it's very lightweight which is good for the passel of stocks laying across your arm. I'd at least discuss the idea with Jones. Would look good with either very light or very dark mounts. I'll definitely ask about it, I've also been looking around and like the way Orange Osage looks too, but we'll see what he says when we get back to corresponding, he's been travelling a bit it would seem. I'll definitely ask him about tunings, as it seems like he plays in very unconventional ways on a lot of tunes. As far as why I'd want a D chanter, I like they way they sound having listened to as much as I can on youtube, and from what I've read the D can be useful for playing a lot of Irish tunes, which I enjoy. You may be the perfect person to ask this, but I've got a buddy who's learning the concertina, and he picked up one of the Rochelles. I wouldn't mind being able to learn some tunes to play along with him, but I don't know enough about the instrument to know which options of SSP chanters would be better to go with it. I intended to play SSP before, I've wanted a set ever since I've started playing GHB. I go camping at renfaires a lot (yes I'm a huge nerd) and while I can play my GHB out there, they're usually a little too loud, so I wanted something a little quieter. I thought about getting into Uilleann piping too, however being able to play all of the tunes I've learned/am learning on the smallpipes is what made me go with those first.I also figured I'd dip my toes in the water with a tin whistle to get my Irish tunes kick. I'll probably end up buying a David Daye practice set at some point in the future because I'm an idiot.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:17
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:
I've been in contact with Nogy, it sounds like he just got behind on things after a really bad season. I'm checking my progress page all the time, he said there was only one instrument in the queue in front of me. I had thought about just taking my knife and trying to shave off bits of it, never thought about a little plane like that. That would have been perfect. I ended up buying a drill attachment that gives a cylindrical grinding surface, it was only  and it ended up doing the job. The kantele is now sanded to our satisfaction, so we started the finish last night. I applied two coats of boiled linseed oil, then a very light coat of polyurethane before going to bed. This morning I tossed on another thin coat of polyurethane and will probably put on one final layer tonight. The combination of the BLO darkening the wood and enhancing the grain with the polyurethane adding some shine is looking really fantastic, I just wish I had taken a "before" shot.
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Aug 7, 2014 20:35
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:If you watch some udu clips and just don't get into it, but still want to figure out a drum, poke your head back in and let us know what features you do/don't want in a drum, and we can talk djembe, ashiko, bongos, frame drums, kanjira, zarb, etc. Yeah, I've been really digging those udu clips, and I think you've convinced me on getting an udu instead of tablas solely based on how I'm probably going to mistreat them in the future if I'm not classically trained. (I still really, really want tablas, though) Also, while searching this thread for tablas, somebody mentioned the bodhrán and how they're sort of like the European equivalent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhpybB6lfcc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9HyB5yNS1A As much as I totally want a bodhrán now as well, I doubt I could do anything like these guys in the videos even if it took me years. I can't fathom how they do all those fast rhythms practically single-handed. I guess what really draws me to these types of drums is the high range of highs and lows they provide, as if it's an entire drum set in your lap.
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Aug 8, 2014 13:12
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quote:The kantele is now sanded to our satisfaction, so we started the finish last night. I applied two coats of boiled linseed oil, then a very light coat of polyurethane before going to bed. This one is for your wife? 10-string? Should be awesome. Does she play music already? Are you getting any 10-string book for her to learn some basics, or just going with intuitive playing? My understanding is there aren't a ton of 10-string books (or many kantele books in general), but in Finnish there's Kymmenkielisen Kanteleen Opas (and apparently with the diagrams and music language skills not really an issue), and Lani Thompson has several books for 5/10 string kantele: http://www.kantelemusic.com/product.html Yoshi Jjang posted:Yeah, I've been really digging those udu clips, and I think you've convinced me on getting an udu instead of tablas solely based on how I'm probably going to mistreat them in the future if I'm not classically trained. (I still really, really want tablas, though) Ah, so it's really the tonal/pitched aspect that draws you. That clarifies a lot. So far as tabla, I still opine it wouldn't be a wise starter for your situation, but Summer TYOOL 2014 is not like your final chance to ever learn tabla. Get another easier/cheaper drum to start on, and if you learn some good basic pitched percussion skills, and tabla still draws you, maybe down the road you'll have a clearer desire to take some formal instruction with a decent student set. And/or maybe you'll get really good on udu/bodhran/whatever and be at a point where you'd feel confident just messing around with tabla and watching YouTube and getting, if not true Hindustani schools, some cool sounds out of it that make the most of the instrument. I'm not at all against forging a "Western school" of tabla-play, just noting that a novice just isn't going to end up waltzing into tabla on his own and feeling fulfilled. Bodhran is an interesting point: I'd vaguely heard it compared to tabla before, but googling around it's not an uncommon comparison. Clearly tons of differences, but some key similarities in that both involve selectively striking and use of hand-bending to vary tone. Interestingly, the German bodhran maker Metloef takes a cue from tabla and applies a thin patch of extra goatskin to the center of the head to add weight, much like tabla players add syahi, that paste of rice/glue/iron-powder which forms the black dot on the drumhead which helps it produce varied pitches. If you were to take up bodhran, it has its challenges, but compared to tabla is way easier for a home-learner to figure out using some DVDs, YouTube, etc. Plus in the Bay Area there must be hundreds of casual players you could hang out with, pub sessions you could drop into to watch players, etc. There is some in-joke about bodhran having a bad rep, due to the cliche of some novice thinking "it's a drum, how hard can it be? I'll buy one and go to the session next week" and then just making a mess of it. But if you get a decent one (not spending big bucks, but just not buying eBay junk) and maybe a DVD or two, you could probably be playing casually with friends in a month or two. As I've noted earlier in the thread, it's really remarkable how the preferred construction of bodhran has changed so markedly even in my lifetime, from everyone buying pretty shallow rims with a big crossbar on the back, but now everyone buying really deep rims with no crossbar at all. BTW, here's a fun clip of a bodhran player with two nyckelharpa (key-fiddle) players, doing some Scandi and Irish tunes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR349svGkao  While we're talking tonal, though I still think udu is your bestest bet, I want to mention another pitched drum. Partially because I haven't done a megapost in so long: Talking drum  The talking drum is a relatively distinct design, found almost entirely in Western Africa, with a few blips of similar styles in other parts of Africa, and in bits of South Asia. Talking drums generally are long narrow goblet-drums with a double-head, and the feature that makes them unique is a narrow waist with extensive tuning ropes deliberately designed to be squeezed by the player's arm, dramatically shifting the pitch as the head is tightened and loosened.  Generally played with a single hooked mallet in the free hand, and the holding arm hand can be used to mute/push the skin for further tone control. These have some small following with serious cosmopolitan/world music percussionists, but are still extremely niche compared to more popular (non-pitched) drums like West African djembe, Arabic dumbek, Latin conga, etc. If you were to buy one of these, note they come in a pretty wide variety of sizes, and are relatively small compared to non-pitched drums like djembe. Like the largest sizes are only a couple feet long, and the small barely a foot tall. The commercial ones I see, broadly speaking have a body length around double the head diameter. If any goon thinks to buy one, again don't buy the cheapest, and for a novice avoid any trad/"tribal" ones of primitive quality until you know how to choose wisely; stick to standardized commercial products from Remo, Meinl, LP, Toca, etc. Not Mid-East Mfg or similar sweatshop types of indifferent QC. The cheapest ones are the Meinl line, with their smallest just $50. Most of these are natural materials, though if you need absolute durability and all-weather stability, Meinl for like $180 has a small all-synth, and I believe LP's discontinued line had a synth model with nylon tuning straps. Whatever you buy, check to see if the mallet comes with or is sold separately; if you see them cheap (like $5 Meinl TD mallets) you may want a spare or two.  - Not best vid quality, but a master Nigerian player: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4oQJZ2TEVI - White guy unconventially playing TD with the fingers of two hands, and using his knees to change pitch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AgJBcWqQkw - An even weirder innovation: B-Rad makes TDs that are attached to a foot-pedal which controls tension, leaving both hands/arms free to beat rhythm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuTQYpFIEys EDIT: If anyone does need a talking drum that's fully-synthetic for throwaround use, there's a Meinl fiberglass one (the synth is only offered in the smallest 7" head size afaik) for $100 shipped, so about half the new price. If one of y'all doesn't buy it, I probably will, so somebody buy it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/350976333936?lpid=82 TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 17:31
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:This one is for your wife? 10-string? Should be awesome. Does she play music already? Are you getting any 10-string book for her to learn some basics, or just going with intuitive playing? My understanding is there aren't a ton of 10-string books (or many kantele books in general), but in Finnish there's Kymmenkielisen Kanteleen Opas (and apparently with the diagrams and music language skills not really an issue), and Lani Thompson has several books for 5/10 string kantele: http://www.kantelemusic.com/product.html Yep, 10 string. The finish turned out really nice, I'm extremely happy with the color and texture. We strung it last night, and as usual I managed to stab myself in the fingertip with a string. The worst part was getting the strings spaced properly on the tailpiece, since they just kind of slide around until you get it tight. Oh, and the lack of a nut on the other end meant that I had to wind carefully or the wire would end up too high/too low. You really start to appreciate the additional development that's gone into a guitar... Anyway once we got it tuned up, it made a pretty great sound. Then it went out of tune, because it has 10 brand new strings on it. I'll tune it up again tonight, hopefully the strings have settled/stretched by now. I'll check out those books, but tonight we'll probably just be looking at some basic "how to play" PDFs and doing some intuitive playing. She can play guitar ok, although she's rusty, so hopefully strumming and picking should come easily.
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Aug 8, 2014 17:50
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Ahahaha, this is great! Check out how the crowd starts clapping on 1+3 and he switches them to 2+4 just after 2 minutes. Reminds me of this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw
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Aug 9, 2014 04:08
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Korwen posted:I'll definitely ask him about tunings, as it seems like he plays in very unconventional ways on a lot of tunes. As far as why I'd want a D chanter, I like they way they sound having listened to as much as I can on youtube, and from what I've read the D can be useful for playing a lot of Irish tunes, which I enjoy. Good deal, Jones should have a lot of interesting opinions on possibilities for you to explore. So far as your concertina buddy, key of D comes really easy to a 30b C/G Anglo (which is why that variant is overwhelmingly the Irish trad choice, vice G/D or similar). An A chanter plays in Dmaj (Amyxo), so I'd suggest tunes in Dmaj would be a good way to go. If you get a back thumbhole (which I strongly suggest unless Jones has some objection), y'all can easily do minor tunes in Am. So far as SSP and Irish music, that's a bit out of my territory, but I'll just note that while SSP is great for the Scottish tradition from which it springs, a lot of Irish tunes have chromatics that an SSP chanter won't do, and cover more range than an SSP can. So SSP is great, but I'd approach doing Irish stuff on it with tempered expectations; there are a few good Dunsire Forum and The Session forum threads discussing this issue. For Irish dance music, the tinwhistle will be a great experience, so I'd focus on using SSP for the things it excels at, which is not necessarily limited to Scottish (Bretagne stuff sounds great on SSP and Jones plays some of those, and Appalachian stuff sounds gorgeous), rather than fret too much of trying to do the Irish side. While Daye's starter sets are really affordable, I'd suggest holding off on a uilleann until you're really solid on GHB/SSP. It's a very, very different creature, like as different from SSP as banjo is from guitar. Some pipes are easy transitions between each other (some people even buy sackpipa chanters to just plug into their SSPs for a change of pace), but things like uilleann and Northumbrian smallpipes are really specialized early-Industrial instruments that take some ground-up study. So don't rush or pressure yourself in either case; your SSP will be awesome, so take the time to enjoy and get to know it, and learn the more informal and dance-based repertoire that distinguishes SSP from GHB. Plus your neighbors will probably really appreciate it. 
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Aug 12, 2014 14:54
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Hey TapTheForwardAssist, do you have a link where you got your udu? Or any recommended places to get one? I'm still on the edge about getting a double, but I'm sure a regular model would do just fine.
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Aug 12, 2014 15:32
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Yoshi Jjang posted:Hey TapTheForwardAssist, do you have a link where you got your udu? Or any recommended places to get one? I'm still on the edge about getting a double, but I'm sure a regular model would do just fine. I got mine used (which you don't see often), but for new I'd go with anyone reputable with decent prices and good return policy. Udus don't need setup or fine tuning; they either work or they don't. Just make sure you carefully check in all over as you receive it to ensure no shipping damage. X8 Drums seems a good online dealer with wide udu selection. If you have a Guitar Center or other huge big box store around, or at the opposite a more hippie/world local shop, they may have a few udus in stock you could try, likely LP. None of the basic Meinl or LP options is a bad answer, so just scope a few YT clips and pick whichever appeals to you. If you plan to haul it all over, beaches and outdoor festivals and all, lean fiberglass. Otherwise lean clay. So far as double vs single: I had been leaning towards suggesting single since they're more common, but honestly the doubles are pretty cute, so if a double does a better job scratching the tabla itch, I say go for it. Definitely post a pic and initial impressions feeling it out once you get it. For super extra credit, find an amateur tabla player in your area and meet up to let him see if he can crossover some tabla techniques onto udu. EDIT: The LP "Udongo" and "Hadgini" models are the most tabla-like in terms of layout; I'd suggest searching under those model-names on YT to see some examples. The former is somewhat larger and lays flatter, the latter smaller and joined by more a V-shape. The Nadishana solo on Hadgini is the best clip I've seen of that instrument; for Udongo the best I've seen is Frank Giorgini's clip though recording quality not great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8XFZ4LO1RQ. Here's also an amateur clip that's pretty well done for giving examples of the sound possibilities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwUT0c0YOA 
TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 12, 2014 |
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Aug 12, 2014 16:46
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It was fun doing a megapost for an instrument again; haven't done those much in the last year while this thread has been at a slow boil with folks dropping in with occasional questions. Once I get moved down to Colombia and settled into my new job I'll endeavor to post more megaposts every other week or so. Anyone have any particular instruments that haven't been megaposted yet that you'd like to see? There are a number of rhythm instruments in general, and a number of string instruments particularly in the Arabic and Latin America traditions which are reasonably accessible to Yankee/Euro musicians that we haven't gotten much into yet. Once I get settled, I'll also get a new banner ad set up to bring in more curious newbies as well, which will also give the thread regulars more chances to champion their respective favorite instruments. There are also a few instruments like hurdy-gurdy and serpent that not any goons yet have picked up, so we'll see if anyone gets grabbed enough by those to make the leap. 
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Aug 14, 2014 19:23
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If anyone is wanting a mega-cheap Middle Eastern made Irish flute, this guy is selling them for fairly cheap. I made an offer a decent chunk below his asking price and still got one, and the number he has available keeps climbing so I guess he has at least a couple dozen. Quality is exactly what you would expect, but for the price I'm OK with that to have a knock around. Just be sure to have some cork grease and bore oil handy! As a bonus, I just now bothered to figure out Dizi tuning. I found out that a Low G Dizi, the Chinese membrane flute, is the nearest equivalent to a Irish D/simple system flute, so next month's instrument is definitely going to be one of those. Also, Dizi on the tinwhistle seems like it could be fun.
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Aug 15, 2014 05:01
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Paladin posted:If anyone is wanting a mega-cheap Middle Eastern made Irish flute, this guy is selling them for fairly cheap. I'd cautiously suggest that getting one of those in the $20-30 range might be an acceptable risk for someone who already plays Irish flute (or is really good on tin whistle). That way the player can figure out what's good/bad about the ME beater, make adjustments as needed, etc. But for a total novice they'd want something totally locked tight out of the box, so though less sexy would be better off with a Tipple PVC flute or similar as a very first piece. But since you have some flute skills and know what to tweak on a cheapie, more power to you. Maybe even grab and then tweak a spare or two for a friend so you can QC it for them, and use it to teach them the basics? I've been pondering percussion more; a musician buddy is borrowing a few things while I'm out of town and is already in love with the udu (and probably already playing it way better than I). I've been really tempted by the talking drum, but I think I'll have my hands full with the udu and kanjira, both of which are awesome. And when I move down to Colombia I might just get some local drum and take some cheap casual lessons to keep my hand in. I did want to share some cool cajón stuff I ran across; over the course of the thread the cajón seems a goon favorite. Not that we necessarily have a lot of players, but in that like the hurdy-gurdy it's an instrument which has intrigued a disproportionate number of readers. Cajón is also really exploding over the past few years, with tons of spinoff instruments (cajon-bongos, cajon-conga, canjos with snares, with cymbals, etc). Though I'm not a dubstep fan (though do enjoy drum-n-bass), some of the demos of acoustic dubstep on cajón are pretty fascinating: Check out this guy's channel overall, but this clip is a good intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ71GBUJz48 For those new to the thread, yes, it's just a wooden box you sit on. And it sounds amazing.  I plan to eventually get one when my living situation is more settled, reckoning it also makes a handy side-table, so two birds with one stone.
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Aug 16, 2014 20:18
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Here's a loving kantele post! We got it together and tuned after breaking only one string. It sounds really nice even to just sort of aimlessly pluck strings, which is mostly what we've done so far (I plan to play with chords later). I'm especially pleased with how the finish came out. I applied two coats of boiled linseed oil, then some polyurethane. I honestly think it would have been best with just the BLO, but by god I bought that polyurethane and I was going to use it! Boiled linseed oil kicks rear end, use it on everything. I'll see about recording some noises later.   Edit: Here, put some loving kantele noise into your ears! https://soundcloud.com/phamnuwen/kantele-sample Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 22:06
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Pham Nuwen posted:Edit: Here, put some loving kantele noise into your ears! https://soundcloud.com/phamnuwen/kantele-sample Man, if I had a nickel for every time someone's said that to me... Seriously though, here's some kantele hardcore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oif7mQstovc (no guitar, just kantele/bass/drums).  Nice work on your kit build! Sound samples pretty cool though, though sounds like your tuning is slipping as it settles in. If you have a decent $5 tuning app for your smartphone, kantele is an ideal instrument to start learning about unEqual temperaments. Since each note on the kantele is individually tuned, you can look at whatever tune/set you're about to play and build your temperament around your keynote. As an easy starter, if you have something like ClearTune, just go futz with the settings and make the keynote of your song the keynote on the app, and then chose "Just Intonation" or "Pythagorean" and note how much clearer your harmonies are within the tune. If this is just too technical, let me know and I'll see if I can dig up an article with a straightforward explanation. Sidenote: if anyone plays or is planning to start playing tin whistle or Irish flute, and is the sort that likes having a really organized step-by-step course of study instead of winging it, I'm selling my copy of the 480 page "Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle" at great discount since I'm moving overseas and am going to just buy the ebook to be more portable. But I have to sell it in the next seven days or so sine I'm trying to leave the country, so PM me or write my username at yahoo to get a hold of me. SA Mart: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3658949 
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Aug 19, 2014 18:59
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:the 480 page "Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle" This a decent book but it is incredibly massive. I can't believe that they didn't make it spiral-bound.
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Aug 20, 2014 17:29
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Nice work on your kit build! Sound samples pretty cool though, though sounds like your tuning is slipping as it settles in. If you have a decent $5 tuning app for your smartphone, kantele is an ideal instrument to start learning about unEqual temperaments. Since each note on the kantele is individually tuned, you can look at whatever tune/set you're about to play and build your temperament around your keynote. As an easy starter, if you have something like ClearTune, just go futz with the settings and make the keynote of your song the keynote on the app, and then chose "Just Intonation" or "Pythagorean" and note how much clearer your harmonies are within the tune. If this is just too technical, let me know and I'll see if I can dig up an article with a straightforward explanation. Ah yes, let's talk about tuning. I have a tuning app on my phone. Tuning the kantele seems to be largely a matter of luck, because the tuning pins have a lot of static friction. If the string is flat, I use the tuning tool and by the time I get the pin moving, it's gone pretty sharp. Tune it back down and it goes flat again. At least the strings don't seem to be stretching any more. I basically tuned the fucker so that all the wires were on the sharp side rather than the flat, figuring that being slightly sharp sounds better than being slightly flat. Would I regret putting a drop of 3-in-1 oil at the base of each tuning pin?
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Aug 20, 2014 18:41
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Pham Nuwen posted:Would I regret putting a drop of 3-in-1 oil at the base of each tuning pin? Yes. I don't know what the solution is but that ain't it.
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Aug 20, 2014 18:53
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slap me silly posted:Yes. I don't know what the solution is but that ain't it. These fuckers are sticky! Oh well.
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Aug 20, 2014 18:55
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Violin peg dope maybe, but find out from somebody who actually knows what they're talking about.
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Aug 20, 2014 18:56
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slap me silly posted:Violin peg dope maybe, but find out from somebody who actually knows what they're talking about. Closest parallel would be autoharp pegs; what does the internet prescribe for those sticking?
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Aug 20, 2014 19:08
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I looked! For more than 5 minutes, even. Couldn't get the internet to tell me.
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Aug 20, 2014 19:33
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Everything I'm reading about zither pins tells me that, by design, they're just plain difficult to turn. It looks like the tuning wrench from the Musicmakers kit has a fairly short handle. I would look for one with a longer handle (more torque) before I'd start messing with lubricants. You can also get tuning keys that are T-shaped or look like giant watch keys; maybe that would make precise adjustments easier.
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Aug 20, 2014 21:14
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Bar soap is a traditional substitute for peg dope and should be easy to remove if it makes things too slick.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:05
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So it looks like ArCane has closed its Etsy shop. Already tried contacting Nathan several times through every channel I could - no responses, and stuff keeps going up on the eBay store, so unless it's an automatic listing of surplus stuff, I've resigned myself to never seeing my talharpa. Bit of a shame - I'm guessing health issues are the root cause, but I'm super-frustrated that I can't even get any acknowledgment out of him for it. Oh well, I suppose that's life. You try obscure instruments, you gotta be prepared for the occasional "never able to find what you're looking for". Now if only there was someone who made a good aulos.
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Aug 21, 2014 07:12
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Hedningen posted:So it looks like ArCane has closed its Etsy shop. Already tried contacting Nathan several times through every channel I could - no responses, and stuff keeps going up on the eBay store, so unless it's an automatic listing of surplus stuff, I've resigned myself to never seeing my talharpa. Bit of a shame - I'm guessing health issues are the root cause, but I'm super-frustrated that I can't even get any acknowledgment out of him for it. Did you get a refund?
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Aug 21, 2014 15:54
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Anyone know where to buy a lute? What I'm finding on the internet is: - $450 lutes made in Pakistan, to dubious standards - Luthiers offering $3,000 - $6,000 custom "student' lutes with a long waiting list Guides on the websites of the various lute societies advise against buying the middle eastern lutes and encourage a novice to spend "a little more" to buy a real instrument  . Any ideas?
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Aug 22, 2014 00:35
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If you're in an urban area, your best bet is to look for an early-music mailing list or bulletin board and hope for used lutes. You can also contact local lute teachers, if there are any. If you're willing to buy sight unseen, check out Wayne Cripps's list. I'm not a luthier, but my understanding is that building a lute that doesn't self-destruct over time is not straightforward. Old mandolins with bellied backs don't survive as long as flat-backed mandos. Edit: Changed URL. Wayne's overall site is useful, too. Edit edit: Depending on what you want to play, you might look into an oud. The oud is the ancestor of the lute, and unlike the lute is still in active use in a large (ish) community. If what you like is the plucked sound rather than the Classical repertoire, an oud might make you happy. There's also the cittern, which is the country cousin of the lute -- citterns were flat-backed and had 4 courses rather than the 7-13 of the lute. Because citterns are used in Irish folk music, they're again way cheaper than lutes. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 18:36
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Gilgameshback posted:Anyone know where to buy a lute? What I'm finding on the internet is: Lutes are one of those areas where it's hard to find a "cheap-good answer". This article lays out the basics, you may have seen: Cheap Lutes. Important question: what part of the world are you in? If it's London, or some key cities of the US, it might be possible to rent a lute affordably, which would give you a chance to feel out the instrument and see if it's something you want to stick with, at which point a larger investment might not feel so bad. Also, kind of like our tabla goon above, but in your case less crucial: are you fixing to take serious lessons, or is this more a casual hobby? Plenty of folks learn lute on their own, this is a different situation than tabla, just the individual/casual approach would indicate a different path. If you're going to take serious lessons, get a teacher first, and get help in lute-buying from the teacher. - So far as Pakistani lutes, it appears to be one of those things where you buy it assuming it needs some basic work done. If you enjoy mucking with things it may be worth the risk, but I wouldn't buy one just to be a bargain if you don't enjoy the project part itself, otherwise you'll end up with an unstrung lute with bridge removed languishing in your closet for years. Ask me how I know. If you want this route, John Redmond's "Improving a Bargain Lute" is a must-read. If you're around London, the Early Music Shop sells Pakistani lutes they've QCed, but for a Londoner I'd still try renting first. - The Sandi family of Turkey has some lutes as low as $700 on eBay, but I'm not seeing much about them online. It may be that the threads about them are stuck in that damned YahooGroups where you have to be a member of "LuteList" or whatever they call it to read past threads. I'd join that YG to get the word on Sandi. - As above, rentals. In London you can rent a lute as low at like £15-20/mo, which is really attainable. A few places in the US do that too. - What instruments do you play so far, if any? If this is still at the nascent/casual phase, you might want to just pick up any decent classical (nylong-strung) guitar for $99 at a pawnshop, and tuning it to lute tuning (which is slightly off guitar tuning). There are some threads I could dig up that discuss using lighter strings and capo'ing to make it more lute-like. That way you could go online and practice playing the basic lute repertoire from free tablature, get a feel for the style of music. That could also help you skip the "I'll just get whatever lute" step and figure out that you positively want a 5-course lute for 12th century Spanish music, or at the opposite end you love German baroque and want an 11-course. A cheap classical guitar looks less exotic, but it's inexpensive and gets the skills down. EDIT: Here's also an article on transitioning from guitar to lute, including intermediary steps: http://stdionysius.lochac.sca.org/collegeprojects/guitartolute.pdf Those are my initial suggestions, let me know if anything jumps out at you.  
TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 21:00
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Thanks for the advice guys - it confirms what I've learned so far, which is that finding a good lute for around $1K is not too likely. I already play classical guitar (fairly seriously) and have played through quite a bit of lute music, either arranged for EADgbe guitar or in lute tuning with a capo. I would love to spend more time with the enormous corpus of music for the lute and the idea of playing it on an authentic instrument is appealing, plus I would be interested in dealing with all the period-instrument inconveniences (tying fret gut, peg tuning, etc). I'm on the east coast of the US near some pretty big cities so maybe rental is the way to go. I am most interested in renaissance music and John Dowland, so somewhere in the neighborhood of eight courses would work for me; my impression is that this is the most common. Ouds are out, I'm afraid, though I'm sure one would be really cool in its own way. Also, if anyone else is interested in the lute repertoire check http://www.gerbode.net/ . Sarge Gerbode is a well-respected lutenist and has assembled an amazing library of lute tablature, free, online (he is also an ex-scientologist with a truly bizarre personal history). Gilgameshback fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 21:58
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Gilgameshback posted:Thanks for the advice guys - it confirms what I've learned so far, which is that finding a good lute for around $1K is not too likely. I already play classical guitar (fairly seriously) and have played through quite a bit of lute music, either arranged for EADgbe guitar or in lute tuning with a capo. Good deal, so you're already deep into the curve then; that clears up a lot. Have you read the "Guitar to Lute" article I edited in above? But having some idea of what period and type of music you intend to play is apparently huge with lute. Given that lute people probably get a ton of casual "where can I buy a cheap lute" they're tired of hearing, I would suggest when you hit them up to lead with "I'm an experienced classical guitarist and want to play the works of Dowland, any leads on a starter 8-course?" The main renters I've run across in the US are Bay Area, and I have no idea if they ship lutes or just rent them locally, since in the UK the London group requires you pick up in person (the Bay guys really should make that clearer on their page): http://theaterofmusic.com/bayarealute/rental.html Have you joined the Lute Mailing List out of Dartmouth? http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html . They have multiple lists for different eras/topics. I wish they just used vBulletin instead of pretending it's 1995, but it's not my show. Looking at their page now, these are the same cats that ran the mailing list for Northumbrian smallpipes I was on, good deal. NSPs, autoharps, and apparently lutes are among the instruments still using mailing lists as their main community. But it appears their archives are up on their website, so some good digging there. I take it you've already been exploring Dartmouth's Lutes for Sale page? Also 1995-esque but actually kept up to date. Not trying to insult you with easily-found stuff, bringing up some of this just so other interested goons have the info right there. Like you note, below $1000 it's nearly impossible to find anything, but the good news is that if you buy a decent one in the $1-2k range, you'll have no problem selling it on if you ever upgrade or get out of lute. You'd think the market would be there for a non-lovely flat-backed student lute, but apparently not right now. This is one of those things where you're gonna want to engage the playing community and make some contacts, meet players in your area, etc. I don't know how much band for the buck the Lute Society of America gives you, but that's worth looking into too. But definitely the Dartmouth mailing list, meet some other Dowlandites and get some idea of where to proceed. And start saving up cash for that $1-2k window. Don't mind me, I'm just posting pics of extended theorbo lutes just because I think they look bitchin'. 
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Aug 22, 2014 23:19
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Thanks again, this is all extremely helpful - I will def join the Dartmouth mailing list and make inquiries there and see if they might know someone in the Boston/New York area who might rent a lute. In the interim I found one of the Pakistan-made ones for REALLY cheap so I'm going to give it a shot while I look for something higher quality. The John Redmond page that TTFA linked makes it sound like some really basic things (peg dope and new strings and fret gut) can help with the mideast lutes and I'm certainly willing to try that, since part of the charm of the lute is getting to know a weird instrument. I'll report back to the thread with my findings. Me IRL, prithee: 
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Aug 24, 2014 18:26
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Gilgameshback posted:Thanks again, this is all extremely helpful - I will def join the Dartmouth mailing list and make inquiries there and see if they might know someone in the Boston/New York area who might rent a lute. In the interim I found one of the Pakistan-made ones for REALLY cheap so I'm going to give it a shot while I look for something higher quality. The John Redmond page that TTFA linked makes it sound like some really basic things (peg dope and new strings and fret gut) can help with the mideast lutes and I'm certainly willing to try that, since part of the charm of the lute is getting to know a weird instrument. I'll report back to the thread with my findings. No worries, glad to hear it's got you some good ideas. If you know what a good instrument feels like, and you don't mind having a project to mess with, and you get a good deal, then sure a Mideast might be worth a punt. Let us know your impressions when it comes in. And if you decide to roll up your sleeves and do some serious stuff like leveling the fretboard or thinning the top, I imagine the DIY forum would be really interested. Restringing and refretting are a given, but I'd also suggest being prepared to make adjustment to the bridge and nut for the action, which should mostly just be small/cheap tools like (round!) needle files, sandpaper, etc. I have not seen it in person and am just going by brand/model, but Arsenic (or whoever), does this look like a great deal? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stoney-End-...=item27ea12d67e Stoney End "Brittany" model 22str lap-harp with full levers and case. Bidding for $299 on eBay from a pawnshop. Retails for $825 plain, but full levers and bag bring is up to $1299 retail. Too good to be true, reasonable used price, or possible lucky deal for someone looking to start harp? I sure don't need it, but it jumped out at me while mucking around eBay. Killing time waiting for a friend to come by to borrow a concertina while I'm overseas. gImages pic of a half-levered model as example 
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Aug 24, 2014 19:04
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quote:I basically tuned the fucker so that all the wires were on the sharp side rather than the flat, figuring that being slightly sharp sounds better than being slightly flat. I glanced around online for autoharp and hammered dulcimer peg tips, surprisingly little info about slicking up pegs. Tons of info on tricks to try when your peg won't hold, not much on the opposite. I think the overall best guess is to very lightly try applying a little bar soap to just one peg, probably your worst one, as an experiment and seeing how it goes. If it gets too slick, that's an easy problem to fix. If it smooths out, all good. But I still submit once you get the pegs correct, you need to get into Just, Pythagorean, and other such tunings to get the best sound from your gear. Plus educational. Depending how small/crappy the turnkey that came with the kit is, for just a few bucks you can buy a longer-handled or T-handle zither peg tuner from China on eBay. My only slight waring on the L-handle ones is that if you're turning and encountering strong resistance, stop for a second and see if you're hung up on anything. I once snapped a pin on an autoharp since I was cranking on it and didn't notice that the L-handle had bumped into another peg and that's why it wasn't turning. Small metal bits can overheat and fatigue quickly if you really grind back and forth on them, like snapping a wire coathanger.  Just loaned my concertinas to a conservatory-trained friend who'll babysit them for the rest of the year. I expect she'll be playing far better than I in a few weeks. She was vaguely wanting to get a bayan, so we'll see if this converts he to concertina instead. Or compromise in the middle and get one of those bandoneones with CBA/bayan fingering layout.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:30
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