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gingerberger posted:Chris seems like he has an emotional world, he seems like a human (ie beating the poo poo out of dookies dad). Ehhh, disagree a little bit. That scene is pretty much the only time we ever actually see him show any emotion. It definitely gives us a powerful hint into exactly why he turned out the way he did (and, weirdly, is probably his most sympathetic moment), but apart from that he's basically a stone-faced remorseless killer. He obviously has emotions, but he seems like he learned how to suppress them a long time ago.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:11
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Chris is shown to have a family of his own though, one he's very attached to as well. It's only that Marlo and his work seem to come first to him which, while softening him up a bit, makes him even more terrifying in a way.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:14
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Stare-Out posted:Chris is shown to have a family of his own though, one he's very attached to as well. It's only that Marlo and his work seem to come first to him which, while softening him up a bit, makes him even more terrifying in a way. Putting his job above his family makes him kind of a bizarro-McNulty, I guess.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:20
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gingerberger posted:I think her and Marlo are both genuinely sociopaths, snoop just gets her hands dirty. But how is Snoop any worse than any of the other henchmen, like Wee-Bay or Slim Charles? Wee-bay might be emotional but he has killed dozens of people and showed zero respect for human life. And fans love Slim Charles but he's the one that uttered the horrific throwaway line "Murder ain't no thing...", not long after coolly shooting some kid on Marlos corner.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:27
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bucketybuck posted:But how is Snoop any worse than any of the other henchmen, like Wee-Bay or Slim Charles? And let's not forget that one time when he casually raped a dying woman! Wee-Bay's definitely a fucker. Slim...is unquestionably a remorseless murderer, but if you can say anything for him, it's that he only murders people who are in the game. Not that that's ok, but it at least puts him a cut above some of the other murderers, I guess.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:32
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Snoop was shown to legitimately enjoy murdering people. Chris was more cold. Whether it was because it was simply his job or if there was something more to it, I don't know. Wee-bey seemed more indifferent, but we never got to witness him actually kill someone, to my recollection, so who's to really say.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:00
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Wee Bay was also the "tap tap tap" shooter (the murder scene is where Bunk and Nutty have the "gently caress" scene), it's pretty loving cold blooded shooting some poor girl in the face.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:04
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Ainsley McTree posted:Ehhh, disagree a little bit. That scene is pretty much the only time we ever actually see him show any emotion. It definitely gives us a powerful hint into exactly why he turned out the way he did (and, weirdly, is probably his most sympathetic moment), but apart from that he's basically a stone-faced remorseless killer. He obviously has emotions, but he seems like he learned how to suppress them a long time ago. To me murderer with a lot of baggage is better than total sociopath. Seems like Chris can at least conceptualize of abstract morality. I honestly don't know if snoop can. Which is "worse" is probably a matter of opinion; however I think sociopath is definitely scarier.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:24
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It seems to me more like Slim, Wee-Bay, Chris all knew what they were doing was some evil poo poo and accepted it as a job. They are killers and they make no qualms about it. Snoop, who may be a part of the newer generation, didn't see it as such. She doesn't empathize like the others do. She doesn't see a problem with killing. Hell, if given the word, she would probably try to murder Clay Davis. She wouldn't see the difference in murder and assassination. Remember that scene when she and Chris were hiding out from Omar? Chris is distraught, worried about his family. Snoop didn't understand why Chris was so upset and mentioned that they should bring gifts to his kids. Chris had to explain why he couldn't see his family. Edit: also, Chris beat Bug's dad to death, not Dukie's
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Aug 8, 2014 00:28
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ChikoDemono posted:It seems to me more like Slim, Wee-Bay, Chris all knew what they were doing was some evil poo poo and accepted it as a job. They are killers and they make no qualms about it. This rings true to me. To put it another way: can you see Snoop getting out of the game? I can see the others retiring (not necessarily by choice, mind you), but Snoop just seems like she's a permanent fixture. Even Marlo gets out of the game.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:38
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Call me shallow but I hate Snoop because of the way she talks and to a lesser extent that smug frog expression on her face. Edit: Also I think she is an awful actress. She is just a bizarre human sort of woodenly playing herself. Finndo fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 01:49
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Snoop's great, y'all are weird.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:01
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Finndo posted:Call me shallow but I hate Snoop because of the way she talks and to a lesser extent that smug frog expression on her face. You're probably already aware of this fact and are just making reference to it, but on the off chance you aren't, she isn't actually an actress and pretty much is playing her actual self. I'm not going to laud her performance and say that she should be in more things, but she's definitely quite unlike anything else I've ever seen on television, and I like her for that alone.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:02
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Yeah, her RL persona is something else I don't like about her. She definitely dominated her scenes but on rewatching I just so much more appreciate watching Marlo as a perfectly executed villain, compared to her freak show.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:38
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comes along bort posted:I'm not so sure Templeton fabricated stories just for career advancement purposes as much as it seemed the only way to ensure he would have a career in journalism at all given the ongoing consolidation of ownership and shutting down desks. No, didnt mean he did it for his career. More for self preservation. Against a backdrop of cuts and redundancies (buy outs), if a reporter doesnt deliver for a prolonged period then they're shitcanned. The constant pressure makes reporters react in differebt ways. One would be to try and stand out by filing something extraordinary. comes along bort posted:I'm not so sure Templeton fabricated stories just for career advancement purposes as much as it seemed the only way to ensure he would have a career in journalism at all given the ongoing consolidation of ownership and shutting down desks. comes along bort posted:I'm not so sure Templeton fabricated stories just for career advancement purposes as much as it seemed the only way to ensure he would have a career in journalism at all given the ongoing consolidation of ownership and shutting down desks. No, didnt mean he did it for his career. More for self preservation. Against a backdrop of cuts and redundancies (buy outs), if a reporter doesnt deliver for a prolonged period then they're shitcanned. The constant pressure makes reporters react in differebt ways. One would be to try and stand out by filing something extraordinary. Its easy to see how Templeton could conceivably act the way he does. Its still exaggerated though. No newsdesk exec would pander to a reporter in such a way.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:20
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Chris questioned at least one of the hits ordered by Marlo so he has some conscience or empathy. Chris' perceptiveness when Michael asked for the hit on Bug's father, and the way he carried it out, hinted to me that Chris may have been abused. Either way, more evidence for empathy. As for Templeton, I don't think his name was an accident. He was a rat fucker. edit; added part about empathy wormil fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 21:45
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ChikoDemono posted:It seems to me more like Slim, Wee-Bay, Chris all knew what they were doing was some evil poo poo and accepted it as a job. They are killers and they make no qualms about it. On this subject, one of the best things about seasons 4 and 5 is the development of Mike, the kid that Chris mentors into a sociopath. He's always so outside of the other kids, not much talk and all action. He's a defender of the people close to him but ruthless and fearless to anyone else. I always thought of him as a concurrent Chris backstory, and they really connect it with the beating of Bug's dad.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:50
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LloydDobler posted:On this subject, one of the best things about seasons 4 and 5 is the development of Mike, the kid that Chris mentors into a sociopath. He's always so outside of the other kids, not much talk and all action. He's a defender of the people close to him but ruthless and fearless to anyone else. I always thought of him as a concurrent Chris backstory, and they really connect it with the beating of Bug's dad. In one of his interviews, the guy who plays Marlo mentioned how he imagines Marlo seeing Michael as a lot like him (ya Marlo orders Michael hit but he would do that to anyone, the man is incapable of being personal about anyone but himself). And the last episode very clearly demonstrates Michael filling Omar's role. I've never seen or read any piece on The Wire about why they chose to have Michael be the product of these specific characters, but no other character I can think of right now seems to be able to trace their influences so directly to characters we the audience actually know. It wasn't until I typed that last paragraph out that I appreciated just how much Michael loses everything personal and just sort of fades into the system, not just in the plot but in the actual show where who he's with and where he's living were such strong ways for us to visibly understand him as a person. Dookie and Randy only had glimpses of a personal identity/homelife because they had gone through so much already they didn't really expect anything good to happen to them. But Michael did everything right and ended up a common criminal for it. What is that supposed to mean?
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Aug 9, 2014 00:02
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KORNOLOGY posted:What is that supposed to mean? The game is the game. Always.
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Aug 9, 2014 04:29
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The interesting thing about Snoop is the fact that The Game is extremely male dominated, so she has to be even more brutal to overcome that prejudice. I can't be the only one who thought she was a teenage boy whose voice hadn't changed when she first appeared. Brings up an interesting question, why are criminal organizations in general so patriarchal?
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Aug 9, 2014 06:14
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Konstantin posted:The interesting thing about Snoop is the fact that The Game is extremely male dominated, so she has to be even more brutal to overcome that prejudice. I can't be the only one who thought she was a teenage boy whose voice hadn't changed when she first appeared. Brings up an interesting question, why are criminal organizations in general so patriarchal? General conception. It's not like the hood is on the fore-front of social justice and an understanding of gender roles. EDIT: I'd also argue that frankly it's no different from the police either. Kima is the only female we see in the police, and Pearlman is the only woman in the law side of things. Part of why Kima shines is the comparison to her male counterparts, and the perception in the department of women. I'm rewatching Season 4 and Prez is about to put the call into Daniels about Randy. It just makes me so sad to see Carver get wrapped up in it, try to do the right thing, and ultimately feel the failure harder than anyone else aside from Randy. I really appreciate how Season 4 didn't pull any emotional punches. The bond between Prez and his kids feels genuine, and Carver's concern for Randy feel genuine. It makes it that much harder. Also, I think there's been a lack of discussion on the comparison between the kids in season 4 and the adults. We're sympathetic to a lot of these characters because of how they're written, but the difference is that we see the kids become who they will be. We consider Avon, Stringer, et al as terrible people. Heck, Marlo we consider to be the most ruthless person in the show but how did he get there? What happened? I think there's a sympathy that's allowed for even the "bad" guys due to the system failing them. Boywhiz88 fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 08:58
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Boywhiz88 posted:. Uhhhhhh beadie? That woman McNulty talks to before planning out the murders in season 5?
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Aug 9, 2014 10:01
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Boywhiz88 posted:General conception. It's not like the hood is on the fore-front of social justice and an understanding of gender roles. Or to paraphrase McNulty, "Only met two female police worth a drat and both were lesbians".
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Aug 9, 2014 10:07
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Skeesix posted:Uhhhhhh beadie? That woman McNulty talks to before planning out the murders in season 5? Ah yes, the very significant character, That Woman McNulty Talks To.
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Aug 9, 2014 12:15
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And Beadie wasn't city police. She took the job because it was relatively easy and she could make sure her family was taken care of. They comment on how she's completely green when she starts the investigation but at the end, she's real police. Also, I feel like a lot of the behaviors geared towards Beadie early on, specifically from the State Police, feels like there's an element of talking down to her. Again, we don't see many women characters but I'd say they're all fairly strong, aside from Donette. And my comment was specifically geared to make the comparison between the patriarchy in both sides of the game.
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Aug 9, 2014 16:06
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You are underestimating Donnette's special Complaining Powers.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:49
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Gale 
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Aug 10, 2014 05:39
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Hahaha I went in the opposite direction but yep. He really doesn't seem to have any characteristics aside from being the harbinger of poo poo. If you compare him to, I guess Rawls is his Homicide Department equivalent? it's season-five-problems.txt right there.
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Aug 10, 2014 07:00
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I finished the series for the first time about a week ago. I decided to take a break from it before doing a rewatch, so I started watching Treme. The first thing I thought was "Since when does Bunk not wear a suit?!" I'm saving a rewatch of The Wire until I can convince some friends to watch it. I watched it all off of Amazon, but is there any way to listen to the commentaries beyond buying the DVDs? I hate the idea of having to switch discs all the time, but I won't ever entertain an option that I don't pay for.
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Aug 10, 2014 09:49
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bentacos posted:I finished the series for the first time about a week ago. I decided to take a break from it before doing a rewatch, so I started watching Treme. The first thing I thought was "Since when does Bunk not wear a suit?!" This is one of the few shows I was very happy to pay for.
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Aug 10, 2014 10:00
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bentacos posted:I finished the series for the first time about a week ago. I decided to take a break from it before doing a rewatch, so I started watching Treme. The first thing I thought was "Since when does Bunk not wear a suit?!" Buy the DVDs then get a non-disc version you may not have paid for for the convenience?
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Aug 10, 2014 10:47
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I think the Treme thread died, but it's also such a great show. Much less cynical than the wire, but just as real.
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Aug 11, 2014 07:00
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Zesty Mordant posted:I think the Treme thread died, but it's also such a great show. Much less cynical than the wire, but just as real. I watched the first 4 episodes when it came out and didn't really get into it. It felt like it was trying to hard or something. Been intending to go back and watch the whole thing, just haven't gotten around to it.
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Aug 11, 2014 09:06
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gingerberger posted:I watched the first 4 episodes when it came out and didn't really get into it. It felt like it was trying too hard or something. Same here. I lost interest about halfway through the first season. Which is weird, because I loved the music and liked seeing Wire actors in new roles. But something about the show was just strangely off-putting and vaguely hypocritical. In particular, I'm thinking of the scene very early on, when the tour buses come in to the neighborhood and the tourists sit behind the windows, taking pictures of the devastation. While I'm sure that really did happen, it also had the side-effect of implicating the show viewers as a part of an observer culture--after all, we're watching the devastation, too--and the impact got lost somewhere in the commentary.
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Aug 11, 2014 09:26
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I take the tour bus scene as the opposite really. The tourists are just there to gawk at the destruction, not to understand why it happened, or how the people are coping with it. The show was trying to explain why people stayed or came back after the storm, and how the political corruption in the city ensured that the problems that resulted in Katrina were never really going to get fixed.
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Aug 11, 2014 14:07
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I'd recommend giving Treme another shot. It's not like "if you liked the Wire, you'll like Treme" necessarily but it is a high quality show and I think it gets better as it goes along.
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Aug 11, 2014 14:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5za4VsskM this scene really encapsulates recent events. "Pretty soon, drat near everybody on every corner is your fuckin enemy"
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Aug 14, 2014 01:23
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the culminator posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5za4VsskM Everyone goes nuts for Bubbles but I think Bunny Colvin is the series most sympathetic character by FAR. Because he's the only person in power trying to make a difference, make it work. I'd be very interested to sit in on police meetings and see how far they are from what we see in The Wire. I hope one day policing will involve understanding the people they are arresting and trying to better the community. Maybe they're a junkie who should just get their ride home, gently caress a humble. But here we are.... EDIT: SUPERCUT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70eU840lc38 SHEEEEEEEEIT Boywhiz88 fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 02:42
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Boywhiz88 posted:Everyone goes nuts for Bubbles but I think Bunny Colvin is the series most sympathetic character by FAR. Because he's the only person in power trying to make a difference, make it work. To some extent. But even he's guilty of not really giving a poo poo about the junkies or the dealers. The whole reason he does the hamsterdam thing is, to paraphrase his words, "to save the parts of his district that are still worth saving." You get the feeling that he thinks everybody involved with the game is part of a plague that he's not interested in curing, he just wants to quarantine it so everybody else can get on with their lives without having to worry about it. Which, to be fair, is a heck of a lot more than anyone else in the department seems to care about it. But then you have that scene where he's talking to the deacon (a real life ex-drug lord, which I loving love as a casting choice) who's pointing out that life in hamsterdam is hell, and you can see Colvin fighting back a migraine thinking "goddamn it, deacon, I don't wanna have to think about this." To his credit, he does think about it, and genuinely makes efforts to help out with it, but it took someone pointing it out to him before he actually saw it. So I guess in the end, you're right, but at least at first, his goals with hamsterdam were only partially well-intentioned. Which again, is a gently caress of a lot more well-intentioned than anyone else in the show is. But still.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:23
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How much heroin were the Greeks actually bringing in? It seems like they are the only guys around doing the actual importing straight from the source, and I think I remember someone saying the co-op only gets a couple dozen kilos at a time but the time they seized a shipment disguised as pigments it was like hundreds of kilos.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:30
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