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oh woops yeah, yeah I looked at the 20 man box from dreamforge! which is... don't know how I missed that... the ones that are more expensive ARE better sculpts, at least. and the dreamforge ones are just cool.
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Aug 9, 2014 14:40
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Edit: Beaten!  But more informative  dichloroisocyanuric posted:I'm surprised that over half of these options are actually more expensive. 10 Cadians are $29 USD, 20 are $58, etc 10 Eisernkern Stormtroopers, which are superior sculpts technically, are $18.70, 20 are $35 10 Corporation Marines are $24, but Mantic really excels at price when buying double squads or army boxes, ie $35 for 20, and $75 for 40 guys with gun options and command bits plus 3 heavy weapons teams 18 Shocktroopers for $21.95 The only ones more expensive are the Puppetswar troopers at ~$33 for 10, and the Victoria ones are $50 for 10 but give you unique themes and are vastly superior to the GW original offerings. This is just in the US of course - for me in Australia, all of those prices stay exactly the same except for the GW Cadians which go up to $44 USD for 10, $88 for 20, etc NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 14:43
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NTRabbit posted:10 Cadians are $29 USD, 20 are $58, etc yeah  I looked at the dreamforge ones wrong. also I didn't look at the shocktroopers closely, but holy crap, you get 18?also this guy exists:  which is awesome third-party GW prices are much more similar to those prices (warstore has 10 cadians for $23), which is just sad.
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Aug 9, 2014 14:48
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:yeah The comments on the Shocktroopers and Eisenkern ones are pretty funny though, because apparently GW invented the Imperial German Army of WW1 and their helmets, greatcoats, gas masks and rifles, so clearly Wargames Factory, Dreamforge and Kaiser Wilhlem II are guilty of ripping GW off. The Dreamforge gear has been slow in coming, but it's real quality - you only need to compare the Eisenkern APC with the  Astra Militarum Taurox, which both hit the internet in image form in the same week 
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Aug 9, 2014 15:04
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I think the big difference is that one looks like it was designed for a saturday morning cartoon, and the other looks like it was designed for the military. those dreamforge models make me want a helghast/jin roh IG army. edit: oops, I mean, Astra Militarum 
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Aug 9, 2014 15:16
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NTRabbit posted:
I always laugh a little to my self when I see that thing. This was the last nail in the coffin for any enthusiasm I had about the new Imperial Guard release.
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Aug 9, 2014 15:17
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Is anyone still making Hammer's Slammers minis?
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Aug 9, 2014 15:19
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:I think the big difference is that one looks like it was designed for a saturday morning cartoon, and the other looks like it was designed for the military. those dreamforge models make me want a helghast/jin roh IG army. I think there was a grimdark middle ground between realistic future military and cobra commander on acid that they could have hit if they had tried, but they didn't.
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Aug 9, 2014 15:23
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NTRabbit posted:I think there was a grimdark middle ground between realistic future military and cobra commander on acid that they could have hit if they had tried, but they didn't. Someone posted the Taurox with the treads fixed to wheels on the front (or maybe all, can't recall) and the side cannons off, and it actually looked baller as gently caress. GW is just phoning it in lately on a bunch of things. Like the loving wolf-sleigh.
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Aug 9, 2014 15:48
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:yeah Its a nice idea, but that is a really awful cast. Its just a featureless blob.
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Aug 9, 2014 15:53
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The thing is that they've given up on the weird diesel-punk WWI thing they had going on with the original IG tank design. They're just sort of wandering between aesthetics, and it doesn't work. That thing looks like Imperial Russia invented a steam-driven SdkFz 251. It's 100% thematically consistent with the Vostroyans, but looks like complete rear end juxtaposed with the Catachans or whoever.
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Aug 9, 2014 15:57
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Halloween Jack posted:Is anyone still making Hammer's Slammers minis? Yep! Ground Zero Games do the infantry, although GZG have an annoying habit of never putting up photos. There are a few images here and there which should give you the idea. They also do the infantry in 15mm, and you can see pictures of their minis on the other pages I'm linking. For the tanks and other vehicles, you want Old Crow. You can find all this, with links and game rules, on this handy page here.
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Aug 9, 2014 16:11
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The best thing about the Taurox Prime: Tracks were implemented on tanks because of weight distribution when traversing softer ground and so that it's less likely to get stuck while driving over a trench, and having two tracks per side on different axles eliminates the very reason for the drat thing having them instead of wheels.
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Aug 9, 2014 17:05
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Not true! It saves half the height of a wheel, and still has a broader footprint. It's more mechanically complicated and prone to breaking, but by gum, it's still better than your caveman wheels. Those treads are a premium experience. Like mud covered jewels. Somehow in my mind, the taurox is an attempt to compete with this: http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/khador/battle-engines/gun-carriage When what they should have been competing with was this: http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/the-protectorate-of-menoth/battle-engines/vessel-of-judgment
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Aug 9, 2014 18:00
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serious gaylord posted:Its a nice idea, but that is a really awful cast. Its just a featureless blob. On the other hand the Dreamforge support weapons are the duck's nuts, albeit lacking a lascannon style weapon option  Priced at $28 for 3, compared to the Cadians at $39.50 USD, though the Dreamforge are 1 of each and the Cadians have 1 of each weapon for each team. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 18:05
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So I should try second-hand or recasters for relatively generic stuff like Guardsmen, and ebay if I want something like a Space Marine for Deathwatch?
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Aug 9, 2014 18:05
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Lightning Lord posted:So I should try second-hand or recasters for relatively generic stuff like Guardsmen, and ebay if I want something like a Space Marine for Deathwatch? It all depends on what you want, and what you like - alternate Space Marine models are also quite popular, a lot of those stores I listed plus places like Anvil Industries and Scibor make some. Can't say too much about recasters, other than that nobody I linked is a recaster, and the actual recasters have everything. If you have philosophical objections to recasting and don't like any of the cheaper alternatives above, second hand on ebay has most things.
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Aug 9, 2014 18:11
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NTRabbit posted:It all depends on what you want, and what you like - alternate Space Marine models are also quite popular, a lot of those stores I listed plus places like Anvil Industries and Scibor make some. Oh, I guess recasting is illegal knockoffs? What's the difference between those stores you listed and that, then?
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Aug 9, 2014 18:12
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Lightning Lord posted:Oh, I guess recasting is illegal knockoffs? What's the difference between those stores you listed and that, then? Recasters are illegal knockoffs, they take the GW original sculpts, create moulds from them and start making and selling copies. Some are in Russia, most are in China. The stores I listed have designed all of those figures themselves, and then had them manufactured, often in China. Some of them make figures that are designed to be similar enough to GW stuff that you can slot them right in and they look at home in 40k ie Puppetswar, Kromlech, Scibor, Chapterhouse, Victoria. Some do the same, only they also offer their own game rules as a justification and to drive sales ie Dreamforge. Others have their own game, but due to things like generic scifi soldiers in armour and aliens drawn from Tolkien fantasy and the Alien movies, their products mostly translate well enough to be used in 40k ie Mantic, Prodos NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 18:18
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NTRabbit posted:On the other hand the Dreamforge support weapons are the duck's nuts, albeit lacking a lascannon style weapon option Its really weird that the first ones are so awful though. The fur collar on that officers coat looks like its from the early 90's. Yet these ones look rather tasty. Lightning Lord posted:Oh, I guess recasting is illegal knockoffs? What's the difference between those stores you listed and that, then? Friendly tip, the forum has been told numerous times to not talk about recasters by the mods, so I wouldnt keep on about that.
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Aug 9, 2014 18:19
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serious gaylord posted:Its really weird that the first ones are so awful though. The fur collar on that officers coat looks like its from the early 90's. Yet these ones look rather tasty. That's because the first image is the Shock Troops Heavy Weapons from Wargames Factory, not Dreamforge  And yeah, recasting is  so can't say a lot more than I already have
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Aug 9, 2014 18:22
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serious gaylord posted:Its really weird that the first ones are so awful though. The fur collar on that officers coat looks like its from the early 90's. Yet these ones look rather tasty. As NTRabbit pointed out, different companies. all of the dreamforge models that I've seen are absolutely stellar. the image I posted was from here
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Aug 9, 2014 18:43
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serious gaylord posted:Its a nice idea, but that is a really awful cast. Its just a featureless blob. Unfortunately that is pretty much everything from WGF. They've apparently been doing Wyrd's Malifaux plastic models, and you can tell--there's a lot of featureless poo poo in there, mostly with human faces. They're also cut in the most infuriating, frustrating manner, like tiny gremlins with separate feet and 3-piece heads.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:40
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Whoever is digitally sculpting the Malifaux stuff needs to get their head out of their rear end immediately. I think it's done in-house at Wyrd. WGF has been doing some pretty amazing sets lately, but they were initially pretty bad. I think they jettisoned a CEO or something. The earliest sci-fi and Dark Ages lines had problems with soft detail with bad proportions. Their current WW2 stuff is great, and their upcoming AWI stuff looks pretty good too:  Keep in mind these are budget figures, priced at $25 for 30 (including bases) which works out to roughly $0.84 per figure. Some of the poses are a little stiff (and that could be the camera angle) but even still, I think they look much better than some $5/figure GW plastics.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:08
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Yeah WGF's history is as interesting as GWs and as much of a "How not to run a miniatures business lesson". The founding guy did get jettisoned, new owner found the company was in an awful, awful state with loads of undeclared debts and a huge backlog. Original founder starts new company and people were surprised when he ran off with the Kickstarter money and no products have appeared. I'm wary of WGF, even if they appear good in photos. I've had 3 boxes from WGF and the models in the photos in no way reflected what I received - much of the detail had been painted on and the anatomy was dodgy at best. They've apparently improved a lot since the founder got booted, but I'm still not convinced.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:40
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Daedleh posted:Original founder starts new company and people were surprised when he ran off with the Kickstarter money and no products have appeared. Ah right, the Defiance Games guy. Note he also ran off with the money from another kickstarter after convincing them to use Defiance as the manufacturer, and they failed to do due diligence.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:46
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What kits were screwed up, Daedleh?
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Aug 9, 2014 21:50
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It's already been more or less said, but a bunch of the problem with poo poo like the Taurox, flying wolf head transports, etc. is that at some point they crossed the line from blocky, unrealistic stuff as an aesthetic into an excuse for phoning it in. Compare those two with "earlier" designs like the Thunderhawk or even the Dark Angels fliers. The latter are equally unrealistic from an actual physical point of view, but for me personally it's much easier to buy them as parts of the 40k universe. The new stuff is just self-parody at this point. I will say that I don't mind the wolf sleigh though. To put it another way: in my mind, "Chunky wings" is an aesthetic. "Tank treads because it looks cool" is an aesthetic. "Missile pods firing their wash right into engine intakes," "autocannons that can't actually aim because they're bolted flat to a truck's hull," and "tiny toy-like tank treads" are a lazy designer taking a cargo-cult approach to designing a 40k vehicle without understanding the je ne sais quoi that made the earlier designs work. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 22:21
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I actually think the flier example is perfect. The Dark Talon, even if it looks goofy as hell, fits right into the universe and is at least interesting with a unique silhouette. The Stormfang is greebly at best, muddy with wolf decals and otherwise boring. And I'm still seeing comments on other websites about super cool it is. opulent fountain fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 22:55
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Daedleh posted:Yeah WGF's history is as interesting as GWs and as much of a "How not to run a miniatures business lesson". The founding guy did get jettisoned, new owner found the company was in an awful, awful state with loads of undeclared debts and a huge backlog. Original founder starts new company and people were surprised when he ran off with the Kickstarter money and no products have appeared. True. I have also bought several kits from one of WGFs ranges. The quality is quite obviously better in the newer kits, while the older ones are... not spectacular. Still, it's a budget brand and they are cheap, and I can always get nicer models for the first rank. Sucks when it's the only plastic options available, but it's nice to see that they are actually improving their quality.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:06
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moths posted:What kits were screwed up, Daedleh? I bought the Vikings, Celt Cavalry and Persian Cavalry. Vikings had generally poor definition and the proportions were really poor. The lego-hands syndrome was in full effect and there was a general lack of detail. I bought the Gripping Beast vikings a few days later and the difference was like night and day. Gripping beast was very well sculpted and was excellent value. The Celt cavalry were absolutely awful. Shapeless blobs is the best I can describe them. The faces were mush with a bit of a pointy bit for the nose. These were the main contenders for "painted on detail" since none of the detail in the promotional photos is as sharply or even vaguely defined on the actual models:  Possibly the worst contenders were the Perisan Cavalry. This is what you see on the box:  Looks quite workable? Except no. There's not a sharp edge or any definition in the entire set. And it's funny that you only see side-on pictures of them. You think they're just shapeless blobs, but then you look at them front on.  Oh. Oh god. WHATS WRONG WITH YOUR LEGS?! Their legs seem to come out at a 90 degree angle from their waist, snap somewhere mid-thigh and then drop straight down another 90 degrees. What you also don't get much of a sense of from the photos is that the angle of the thigh that you can see would put the top of the leg behind their arse. Awful. I know people say that they're a value brand, and that might be the case in the US but in the UK their prices are on par with decent manufacturers like Perry and Gripping Beast. I wouldn't touch WGF at all now unless I held the sprues in my hands before buying.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:38
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I had never seen those before, and I agree that they are Not Good Models. I've had luck getting good paintjobs out of the Vikings, which I thought were the worst of it, but those legs are just... that's not how you ride anything.
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Aug 10, 2014 00:12
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moths posted:I had never seen those before, and I agree that they are Not Good Models. I've had luck getting good paintjobs out of the Vikings, which I thought were the worst of it, but those legs are just... that's not how you ride anything. Oh yeah, you can get a good paint job out of them certainly, but the Gripping Beast ones are Good Models and cost the same price over here in Blighty. Here's a comparison pic I did between the two of them a while back, WGF on the left and GB on the right:  GB costs £20 for 44 minis at 50p/mini while WGF costs £18 for 32 minis at 53p/mini (all at RRP). No contest. Meanwhile this is the official picture for the Celt Cavalry:  Compare that with the bare plastic photo above and you can see how much the details have been painted on. The fingers just don't exist on the proper models and have been painted on, the detail on the horses face doesn't exist etc etc.
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Aug 10, 2014 00:39
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Yeah in the US the GB ones are like 32ish while the WGF ones are 18ish so you get a lot more for your buck. I have however seen very good results from mixing the kits together. The Celt and Roman stuff is generally considered to be extremely poor and sub par at best.
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Aug 10, 2014 07:59
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Let's run this derail to the ground. My WGF experience is with the medieval Japan kits. This far there's been three kits, with a lot of time between their release. First kit was samurai infantry. Think elite infantry. This is a pretty bad kit. I still haven't built mine, because I have plenty of better options in metal. Second kit was ashigaru infantry. Think mass infantry that you need a ton of. I have built these, and "painted on detail" is exactly how I'd put it. You can save these with a decent paint job. They will look weird if you pick one up and scrutinize it, but in a large unit on the table they will look ok. Ex:  Not my proudest display miniature vs  Actually pretty decent, if I might say so myself Third kit was samurai cavalry. The details are just way better now than in the first kit. The only real complaints I have is that the stock poses are a bit wooden, which you can fix with a bit of carving and green stuff, and that the horses are almost impossible to affix to the bases. No, a single hoof is not enough to attach a horse and its rider to a plastic base. It's silly, and you'll pretty much have to pin a rod all the way from the horse's belly along the legs into the base to get even a semi-solid solution. It's a design flaw in the kit, but it's still a much better looking kit than the first one. So the problem with the company is that the quality level is all over the place. Some kits are ok, some kits are actually decent, and some are really bad.
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Aug 10, 2014 08:16
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Loving the Ashigaru, but now it's making me want to play Shogun: Total War.
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Aug 10, 2014 10:37
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I don't think it's been remarked upon yet ITT, but apparently Mat Ward left GW back in May of this year.
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Aug 12, 2014 03:05
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I don't think it's been remarked upon yet ITT, but apparently Mat Ward left GW back in May of this year. How the hell did no-one hear of this back in May, then? I thought he was still writing codices.
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Aug 12, 2014 03:11
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Night10194 posted:How the hell did no-one hear of this back in May, then? I thought he was still writing codices. No idea, but as long as it means GW will henceforth ignore his stupid fluff changes to Necrons, Ultramarines/SM in general, Blood Angels, and the infamous GK/Sisters of Battle "incident", I'm 100% fine with it. 
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Aug 12, 2014 03:18
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I'm doing a happy dance at seeing he's out of there. I wonder if he was fired, or if it's a rats-leaving-the-ship kind of deal?
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Aug 12, 2014 03:21
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