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Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

Krinkle posted:

The first scene of the anime is erin looking up at the skinless colossal titan and then some scouts fail to kill a titan in a forest? Who's the memory wipe girl?

This is the girl


And this is the part I think he's referring to

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Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤
It's always a bit hard to identify characters in Isayama's style, but I'm pretty sure it's the same girl from Eren's flashback.

Daler Mehndi
Apr 10, 2005

Tunak Tunak Tun!
If memory serves well, Eren even asks Mikasa if she did something with her hair on the next page.

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

Daler Mehndi posted:

If memory serves well, Eren even asks Mikasa if she did something with her hair on the next page.

He asked her when her hair got so long, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Flying Squirrel
Oct 24, 2007
Thanks, Zombie Lincoln
Oh yeah, that panel reminds me, if eating people can take their abilities, they do have a handy Annie pill he can swallow to get that hardening ability

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤
That's... innovatively horrifying. Hanji is probably already deciding on the best recipes now.

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

Squidster posted:

Eren's first anime scene is him waking from an impossible dream, featuring imagery we still haven't seen yet. I'm curious if the room full of abandoned toys is from the same place where he had his flashback to life as memory-erasing girl.
For some reason this dream shows the clip of his mom being eaten before it actually happens. Anime filler?

Pensive posted:

Huh. I just realized something that should have been really loving obvious to me by now. In the very first scene in the manga/anime Eren was talking to memory wipe girl, then she made him forget about it afterwards. Eren had probably been having the same lessons that Historia was.
:drat:

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!
He's also oddly crying for unexplained reasons as well. That first chapter especially with the introduction of Eren has a lot of intriguing things that are easy to overlook on a first read-through. I didn't notice till watching the anime and going back through it again especially now we know he likes putting in very subtle foreshadowing. The chapter's title of To You, In 2000 Years I'm still curious about.

yellowyams
Jan 15, 2011
I'm starting to realize I don't mind this arc so much as long as it focuses on anyone besides Levi and his squad. It was nice to see Hange and Flegel again, feels like the first time in a while I've actually enjoyed reading a chapter, even if it's only in comparison to the last few. Really hope that MP squad approaching Levi's group is either Hitch and Marlowe with conveniently swayed reinforcements, or Nile's guys after he considered what Erwin told him, because I don't think I could bear another action chapter so soon and with all the other much more interesting plot threads we're still waiting on.

e:Can't remember if we're still supposed to spoiler stuff after Crunchyroll release, sorry.

yellowyams fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Aug 10, 2014

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Veskit posted:

The direction this manga took has been super loving boring. Maybe after it's all said and done it'll play out nicely as a book to read, but my god the monthly waits are tiring for so little to happen. It really does feel like it's being dragged out regardless of how it's handled.

Not really? It's been pretty fast paced and we're moving through lots of events, not really sure how you're getting the idea it's slow unless you just don't like reading setup for big events? Just because we're not having amazing action scenes happen every chapter doesn't mean things are going slow.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Honestly, I'm starting to think that Mikasa was, for the lack of a better word, 'programmed' to look after Eren.

Liquid Dinosaur
Dec 16, 2011

by Smythe

Saagonsa posted:

This is the girl


And this is the part I think he's referring to


For a while the thing which kept me confused, preventing me from being 100% sure the girl in panel 1 was indeed Mysterious Mind Control Woman was that they look so different, what with Panel 1 Girl having a wider face and less pronounced nose. I'll chalk it up to be just not thinking about it very hard, but only now do I realize the obvious explanation is that Mysterious Mind Control Woman's full face was not drawn till almost 5 years years after issue #1. Isayama just changed his idea on what she should look like in the intervening years, not to mention that at the beginning of the comic Isayama's art was frankly such dogshit I am astounded he got it published.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.
Taco Defender
Just wait bigfoot titan will show up with titan sized 3d gear and then the poo poo will hit the fan.

Daler Mehndi
Apr 10, 2005

Tunak Tunak Tun!

Liquid Dinosaur posted:

not to mention that at the beginning of the comic Isayama's art was frankly such dogshit I am astounded he got it published.
You're overestimating manga and what gets published.

Gyre
Feb 25, 2007

Asuron posted:

Not really? It's been pretty fast paced and we're moving through lots of events, not really sure how you're getting the idea it's slow unless you just don't like reading setup for big events? Just because we're not having amazing action scenes happen every chapter doesn't mean things are going slow.

I really like the direction things are going, because usually in manga/anime the protagonist would beat any inhuman enemies and then whatever human resistance they had would dry up instantly like it was never there. In AoT the inhuman enemy is intimately connected to the human enemy, and there's no way you can get the resources to stop the first without dealing with the second.

It mirrors how revolutions actually work. When Portugal was fighting their untenable colonial wars, the soldiers didn't fight harder in losing battles, they went home and usurped the fascists so they could end the wars. In AoT the untenable situation is not fighting, because it's that or slowly be annihilated.

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005



Flying Squirrel posted:

Oh yeah, that panel reminds me, if eating people can take their abilities, they do have a handy Annie pill he can swallow to get that hardening ability

Do you really think Eren would go through with it though? I don't. Mass murderer or not, when push comes to shove I doubt Eren can murder his friends for humanity's sake. That her sleeping beauty act was probably done in part so she couldn't be devoured.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Flying Squirrel posted:

Oh yeah, that panel reminds me, if eating people can take their abilities, they do have a handy Annie pill he can swallow to get that hardening ability

Cool idea, but I suppose the enveloping crystal would avoid her being digested, stopping taking her powers.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Liquid Dinosaur posted:

For a while the thing which kept me confused, preventing me from being 100% sure the girl in panel 1 was indeed Mysterious Mind Control Woman was that they look so different, what with Panel 1 Girl having a wider face and less pronounced nose. I'll chalk it up to be just not thinking about it very hard, but only now do I realize the obvious explanation is that Mysterious Mind Control Woman's full face was not drawn till almost 5 years years after issue #1. Isayama just changed his idea on what she should look like in the intervening years, not to mention that at the beginning of the comic Isayama's art was frankly such dogshit I am astounded he got it published.

I'm with you, the mysterious dream sequence will be important later, and 99% sure that's was Geographia. She can modify memories so it wouldn't be a stretch to think she could appear before him with Mikasa aspect or something like that.

Flying Squirrel
Oct 24, 2007
Thanks, Zombie Lincoln

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Do you really think Eren would go through with it though? I don't. Mass murderer or not, when push comes to shove I doubt Eren can murder his friends for humanity's sake. That her sleeping beauty act was probably done in part so she couldn't be devoured.

Nah, things would have to get even more severely hosed for him to do that. I was just wondering about how she would come back into play, and with powers being transferable, it means maybe she doesn't even have to wake up. Though yeah, crystal shell probably specifically prevents devouring or something.

I know when she did that, my first thought is that is what would be in the basement: some crystallized people from olden times and maybe a way to wake them up, but after the whole shitstorm that happened since then with all kinds of new info...yeah, not so much.

Carpator Diei
Feb 26, 2011

Turin Turambar posted:

I'm with you, the mysterious dream sequence will be important later, and 99% sure that's was Geographia. She can modify memories so it wouldn't be a stretch to think she could appear before him with Mikasa aspect or something like that.

Wait a minute, where did you get this name from? Did I miss something?

Anyway, I also think that scene at the beginning has some connection to Memory Wipe Girl, but then there's that flashback scene which implies that Eren is (or, more accurately, was) Memory Wipe Girl :psyduck: My theory is that she implanted some of her own memories in Eren's mind, but I can't think of a reason why she would do that. Maybe it just happened by accident. Of course, that still does nothing to clear up their relationship. At least we can be pretty sure that Eren did not gain his shifter ability from eating her, otherwise she couldn't have talked to him while he was human (assuming that all the stuff above is correct).

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
.

BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Dec 30, 2017

Terper
Jun 26, 2012


Carpator Diei posted:

Wait a minute, where did you get this name from? Did I miss something?
Some people on the internet have come to call her that, since, well, Historia.

Say Nothing
Mar 5, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
Found on Imgur.

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

Carpator Diei posted:

Anyway, I also think that scene at the beginning has some connection to Memory Wipe Girl, but then there's that flashback scene which implies that Eren is (or, more accurately, was) Memory Wipe Girl :psyduck: My theory is that she implanted some of her own memories in Eren's mind, but I can't think of a reason why she would do that. Maybe it just happened by accident.
Maybe she erases memory by replacing it with her own "junk" memories

...nah

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤
Enjoy some more Spoof on Titan! I enjoy seeing the MP side characters, especially since it looks like they're going to become more central in the main story.

BuhamutZeo
Jun 1, 2011
Love how the King is having this audience in what amounts to his PJs and bathrobe. :allears: Also Armin tearing up at Mikasa doing some self image maintenance. :newlol:

Ataru13
Jul 28, 2005

...Packing Space-Age Shit!
Why did the latest chapters say it would be continued in the October issue, are we not getting any AoT in September?

Sub Harrison
May 2, 2013

Carpator Diei posted:


Anyway, I also think that scene at the beginning has some connection to Memory Wipe Girl, but then there's that flashback scene which implies that Eren is (or, more accurately, was) Memory Wipe Girl :psyduck: My theory is that she implanted some of her own memories in Eren's mind, but I can't think of a reason why she would do that. Maybe it just happened by accident. Of course, that still does nothing to clear up their relationship. At least we can be pretty sure that Eren did not gain his shifter ability from eating her, otherwise she couldn't have talked to him while he was human (assuming that all the stuff above is correct).

Just before Eren saves Mikasa and Armin from the cannonball, he has a flashback of his father on the day of the injection, where Grisha says "There memories will teach you!". Relating to Memory Wipe girl and the whole Eat Shifter Become Shifter mechanic, I feel Eren seeing her memories implies the original owner of Eren's shifting ability was Memory Wipe girl and her DNA was injected into Eren. And to another level of speculation, maybe Memory Wipe girl and her whole family have the shifter ability, which would mean Historia can shift, but doesn't know how to control it yet. This also helps explain why Pastor Nick pointed the survey corps towards Historia for answers.

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

Carpator Diei posted:

but then there's that flashback scene which implies that Eren is (or, more accurately, was) Memory Wipe Girl

What

Ataru13 posted:

Why did the latest chapters say it would be continued in the October issue, are we not getting any AoT in September?

Y'know how monthly magazine cover dates are generally a month ahead? It's pretty much like that

Terper
Jun 26, 2012





From this perspective, Eren couldn't have seen Memory Girl. She's looking in a mirror. Implying that he's remembering this from her perspective.

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

Terper posted:



From this perspective, Eren couldn't have seen Memory Girl. She's looking in a mirror. Implying that he's remembering this from her perspective.

Didn't Grisha say something along the lines of "Their memories will teach you how to use your power" when he injected Eren? I'd bet it has something to do with that

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Well thought. So not only she can erase and manipulate other people's memories but she can transfer hers (and others?) to other people. In this case to control being a titan?

Bluemillion
Aug 18, 2008

I got your dispensers
right here
Maybe Eren got injected with whatever it is that titans get by eating other shifters? And it just happens to come with some of their memories?
That room is pretty nice, she's probably from nobility. Perhaps the family controlling everything is in that position because they used the ability to control titans to coerce the wall titans into creating the walls?

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005



Bluemillion posted:

Maybe Eren got injected with whatever it is that titans get by eating other shifters? And it just happens to come with some of their memories?
That room is pretty nice, she's probably from nobility. Perhaps the family controlling everything is in that position because they used the ability to control titans to coerce the wall titans into creating the walls?

Maybe, but I think the implication is Eren or Grisha devoured her.

That and the most important word Grisha says is "Their" memories. More than one.

TheBlandName
Feb 5, 2012
I'm glad that nobody else has put all the pieces together, and I get to lay claim to the first complete formulation of the upcoming reveal. This is on the level of Berthold and Reiner, two largely upstanding people in an impossible to handle situation, being the direct cause of the worst event to befall humanity since the appearance of the titans. Right up to the level of foreshadowing, actually. So, if you don't want to risk the big volume 16 reveal being spoiled tread carefully. Mostly I'm posting this so within four months or so I can look back and see how I called things.

The injection that Grisha gave his son is a red herring, and it only has a connection to the titanification process because Grisha wishes to be merciful to his son. The injection's primary purpose is to suppress the formation of memories during the real process.

The reason Eren can become a titan is because Grisha forced him to eat Historia's half-sister, the only legitimate child of Lord Reiss.

The secret, based upon the bloodlines of the center's elite irrespective of a person's social status, that the central government must remain in power to protect is that the catalyst for creating human titans exists in the bloodlines of the nobility. Any violent upheaval of the social order carries the risk that those people who can catalyze the creation of titans will be lost track of, easy prey for those who know the secret or at risk of spreading the trait to a wide section of the population in all three walls.

This is why Rod Reiss arrived to bring his mistress and Historia to his home to protect them. This is the reason that the Central MP felt there was a threat to Lord Reiss's life, and why they killed Historia's mother and forced Historia into exile. The Central MP could not risk the political instability that a recognized, but unknown, heir would bring.

This is why the central government has continually sought Eren. Because it is obvious to them that Eren, the boy who can "mysteriously" transform into a titan and son of the prime suspect of a royal kidnapping, gained his powers through cannibalism. The entire time Lord Reiss has known that Eren gained his strength and reputation by eating Rod's daughter. Every time the scout regiment performed an operation the losses have been high, secrets have been revealed, and little has been gained for it besides a delay in questioning Eren and Erwin's word that it served to prevent humanity's extinction. Surely, by now Lord Reiss's advisers are convinced that everything in the last 5 years has been part of a premeditated coup.

How damning the evidence must appear. The scouting legion performing an expedition the day the walls were breached. The abduction of royalty during the chaos as the news spread. The attack on Trost, during which the scouting legion is on an expedition, the day before the southern cadets join any regiments. During which Eren Jaeger reveals his titan-power, two fanatically loyal bodyguards, and is instrumental in securing the district. The following trial, for which records indicating Eren and Mikasa's unusual competency in killing at age 9 are revealed. Where Levi makes the insinuation that an enraged titan Eren isn't going to attack the scout regiment even after a severe beating. A reasonable compromise is offered by Erwin, which results in a short operation with catastrophic losses and no gain to speak of. When Eren and Erwin are summoned to explain what happened, they give the appearance of cooperation but actually launch an operation. This operation "reveals" that Annie, one of Eren's closest classmates and the only one to join the MP, was actually a titan and enemy to humanity. A hole is torn in the wall where anyone could see the titan inside, significant civilian losses are incurred, a church ceremony of the wall cult is crushed, and the only gains were that Annie was "captured" and "humanity was saved" again. But Annie is in a totally unbreakable crystal, no information can be gained from her, she's going to be kept "captive" at the scout regiment's HQ, and Erwin "reassures" his superiors that he and his scout regiment will root out the threat to humanity that hidden titans like her represent. A deacon of the wall cult disappears into the scout regiment's protection. Oh, also Historia, illegitimate daughter of Lord Reiss, is a member of the scout regiment. But as soon as MP starts inquiring about her they get stonewalled.

And yet, despite all this the Central MP have taken great care to transport both Eren and Historia, physically unharmed, directly to Rod Reiss. This is where the mystery eludes me. I suspect that even after all this, Reiss wants to know the truth of why his daughter died. Reiss wants to know if Eren really was complicit in all this, or if he was just a child soldier thrust into a situation nobody should envy. Because the possibility that his advisers are wrong and that humanity really is under attack by an outside faction is too dangerous to ignore.

My suspicion is that, unfortunately for Eren, the last experiment with his powers showed that the memories of that night where he ate Rod's daughter are in his head. He couldn't handle them the last time they surfaced. And now he's in the clutches of a man who likely has the power to reveal those memories. And Eren's going to be questioned alongside Historia who once had a sister that loved Historia, and an unhappy life ruined further by her sister's death. Which is Grisha's fault, but Grisha is not here and his son may make a convenient scape goat.

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤
Your conjecture is based on a character that has never been introduced. Who would be Historia's half-sister? We have no reason to believe a person like that exists in this manga.

Do you mean memory-erasing girl? If so, she's been interacting with Eren vastly earlier than she got eaten in this hypothetical timeline. His ability to kill muggers as a kid is also not related to eating members of the royal family, as that mysterious injection didn't happen until after the wall fall. It is vastly more likely that the Memory-wiper girl is a rogue member of the royal family. I expect that it will be later revealed the Memory-wiper has been continuously interacting with the cast throughout the manga, but skipping out of their memories every time.

Eren ate Grisha, who carried a titan-coordinate in his body. Grisha is the missing key, and I strongly expect he came from outside the walls. He's from Reiner's village, and the reason they attacked the city was to bring his body back to the outside faction.

Lord Weiss has ensured Krista is well-treated because he is not 100% a dick. He has been shown to be sentimental in the two brief times we've met him, and he's ensured Eren is well-treated because, in both scenes we've met him, he is also a pragmatist.

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005



Squidster posted:

Your conjecture is based on a character that has never been introduced. Who would be Historia's half-sister? We have no reason to believe a person like that exists in this manga.

Do you mean memory-erasing girl? If so, she's been interacting with Eren vastly earlier than she got eaten in this hypothetical timeline. His ability to kill muggers as a kid is also not related to eating members of the royal family, as that mysterious injection didn't happen until after the wall fall. It is vastly more likely that the Memory-wiper girl is a rogue member of the royal family. I expect that it will be later revealed the Memory-wiper has been continuously interacting with the cast throughout the manga, but skipping out of their memories every time.

Eren ate Grisha, who carried a titan-coordinate in his body. Grisha is the missing key, and I strongly expect he came from outside the walls. He's from Reiner's village, and the reason they attacked the city was to bring his body back to the outside faction.

Lord Weiss has ensured Krista is well-treated because he is not 100% a dick. He has been shown to be sentimental in the two brief times we've met him, and he's ensured Eren is well-treated because, in both scenes we've met him, he is also a pragmatist.

Reading Bland's hypothesis, I think he's on to something. There is strong evidence to support that the memory erasing girl is a half sister and Eren devoured her.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MWHlRS8DZ0M/UExpHmEIPZI/AAAAAAAAFfA/7Qmhjy1gJ_8/027.jpg?imgmax=3000
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VrioaNQvAhg/UqcUWzwEErI/AAAAAAAABXg/qwLRjtDIKb8/041.png?imgmax=3000 Historia was a wedge between family members. Why and What family members were fighting over her? We don't know yet.

http://i.imgur.com/0wg2ozj.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gSY0oMEnkBk/UvWWDhHngrI/AAAAAAAAFSs/cnxySEYARUA/005.png?imgmax=3000 She was being groomed for some kind of ritualistic role with sacrificial overtones. This is probably one of the major keys to unravel the plot and why she's just as important to everyone as Eren. What's more this keeps with her character theme, she's always forced to submit to some role from the people around her. Ymir is always in conflict trying to get her to make her own choices.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NHgFHBVBP2s/UvN0GorXFYI/AAAAAAAAATA/QmMQgMbaEVg/021.png?imgmax=3000 Eren thinks she is Historia. They have basically the same features. In the art motif significant attention is placed on eyes. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Prfcs4wAiwA/UqcUghZhAmI/AAAAAAAABYA/o_pkc-KGqlA/045.png?imgmax=3000 All three of them have the same eyes.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZytpPWIRUrw/UvWWALXbapI/AAAAAAAAFRs/w7hTuJh9T9g/001.png?imgmax=3000 Historia calls her sister. This could just be an affectionate nickname, or she really is related.

Grisha said that "their memories will guide you" implying Eren has multiple people's memories locked inside of him. It's also been suggested that you gain a titan's power through cannibalism. Eren has the power of the coordinate, which the memory erasing girl did too. I'm certain that Eren devoured her, and probably Grisha too.

My only question to your theory Bland is where does Historia's mother sit in all this? Just because her daughter is a pawn doesn't mean she should hate her like she does. It makes no sense. Historia being one of the few who can create titan-shifters should be somewhat "celebrated" instead of her entire family shunning her but keeping her alive for whatever reason they need her for. My take away is whatever Historia is needed for is about continuing the subjugation of humanity. Her mother hates her because that's what she's going to be used for, but can't kill her because it's a necessary evil.

Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Aug 23, 2014

Krinkle
Feb 9, 2003

Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts


I can't really follow this but if he ate the memory erasing lady then who erased his memories of doing that?

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005



Krinkle posted:

I can't really follow this but if he ate the memory erasing lady then who erased his memories of doing that?

Nobody remembers who they devoured.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-efijepycXr8/UddrJMQUmqI/AAAAAAAAJD8/nT_yRzZADUQ/066.png?imgmax=3000

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wJSY87BOFPo/UddrMTEB07I/AAAAAAAAJEE/YLx_Hgq1pgI/067.png?imgmax=3000

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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011




I don't think it's the same case. In their case, they can't remember because they were normal minnless Titans, in other words people who lost themselves in their titan form. Once they eat a shifter, the came back as humans.

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