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Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

A little step further than that, clothing should be modifiable too. Stuff like sewing plastic bags in the liner of a coat for insulation, putting in some armouring, extra pockets or something like the battery-powered heater stuff.

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GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.
I support the right of the player to make bad decisions.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
You guys ever see one of those videos of a mujahedeen with those anti-tank weapons they build? They're basically just RPGs strapped onto a stick for punching tanks with, but they work surprisingly well (which is to say you can survive using them.)

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

Also that one (Spanish?) event where people hit steel plate-covered explosives with a sledgehammer.

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.
Even the Russian's have an explosive-tipped staff which they whack across a vehicle to disable it.

P.S. Modern land-mines are incredibly directional, because it's a complete waste to throw shrapnel anywhere but straight out. Also, the (wood) handle would most likely disintegrate long before your arms gave out.

AceRimmer
Mar 18, 2009
All this talk about silly antitank weapons reminded me of this thing which should really be a craftable item in this game.

Tiler Kiwi
Feb 26, 2011
ahahaha the zlave stuff and the dev reaction is so terrible. dude is so clueless about game design / writing.

His whole stubbornness about keeping it named a "zlave" says a lot about his vision for the game. Its the same mentality a lot of small devs with big egos have, where he goes from trying to provoke feelings into trying to put the players on an emotional railway because he sucks too much to manage anything but cheap cliches. If he would let people rename the zombie luggage carrier some silly name instead of his incredibly thought provoking name of zlave, thatd upset him since well gently caress thats not right theyre supposed to be having an uncomfortable moment about the "z" they turned into a sapient pearwood chest instead of braining with a pipe, not reveling in the black humor of their new buddy "Ol' Benny the Smilin' Ghoul" being loaded up with petrol to firebomb a school. So rather than stepping back and wondering why people are not reacting the way he expected, he just double downs and goes "WOW YOU MUST BE TERRIBLE FOR WANTING TO RENAME IT", silently wondering if renaming zlaves "Holocaust Survivors" and the player "Hitler" might work instead.

it is also why the idea that someone would sexaulize this is so alien to him. hes stuck in the mentality of "well _i_ think this is very serious, why would anyone get off on this???", even when his forum posters are a bunch of hosed up weirdos he managed to attract by adding features in his game that normal people find uncomfortable/annoying and hosed up weirdos get off on.

Turtlicious
Sep 17, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
The worst part is if you don't agree with him, he won't merge your poo poo and actively try to shut it down. So, on his forums you have to just cow to his line because his fork gets way more pulls.

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.
I was actually just scouring the DDA forums looking for references to what you guys are talking about, and while I didn't find what I was looking for, I did read a lot of Granada's posts, and by the third post it was clear that he takes the game and the story way too loving seriously; either that or the man has no sense of humor and is incapable of detecting humor in other people. Someone made a joke about adding vampires with *sparkles* as a mutation, and he shut them down like they were dead serious about adding it.

Taking his posts from both in the forums and on Github as a whole, it seems he sees DDA as *his* branch of Cataclysm, and really Cataclysm as *his* game. Because of that, or possibly vice versa, he has an air of the emperor with no clothes about him. Yes, he's the man in charge of the project, but he can't see anything but what he wants to see. What he wants to see is a serious game, but the joke everyone is in on but him, is that DDA has always been a bit of a whimsical branch of Cataclysm and was never meant to be serious business.

Also, Turtlicious is loving spot on about him as well. If Granada didn't devote so much of his own time to the project as to become a necessary fixture, I'd say to hell with him and have another dev take his place. Rivet and other core developers have their faults as well, everyone does, but I don't see them talking down to people the way Granada has a tendency to do. Unfortunately because of the volume of time Granada commits to the project, replacing him would mean much slower development.

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010
Reminder that during shelfgate, granade literally posted a libertarian screed about how if he wasn't the sole voice of reason deciding everything that goes into the game, he's a literal slave. How the other devs didn't see that and rebel at the implication, I don't know.

Slime
Jan 3, 2007

senae posted:

Reminder that during shelfgate, granade literally posted a libertarian screed about how if he wasn't the sole voice of reason deciding everything that goes into the game, he's a literal slave. How the other devs didn't see that and rebel at the implication, I don't know.

Simple. Granade's a loving idiot, but he's an idiot who does a job that the other developers either don't have the time or the desire to do. He's got the job because nobody else wants it.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
It's not like he could "keep" the game even if he wanted to. The moment someone else does a better job than him, he's old news. His only luck is that there's nobody halfway competent who wants to deal with that sort of thing.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

senae posted:

Reminder that during shelfgate, granade literally posted a libertarian screed about how if he wasn't the sole voice of reason deciding everything that goes into the game, he's a literal slave. How the other devs didn't see that and rebel at the implication, I don't know.

Shelfgate? Clearly I've not been tuning into the drama as much as I should. What's the story there? :allears:

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.

Anticheese posted:

Shelfgate? Clearly I've not been tuning into the drama as much as I should. What's the story there? :allears:

Remember when I wrote that commit that made it so that furniture increased your crafting distance? The rational behind it was that crafting distances (then) were only 2 tiles, and that by placing items on shelves and tables, made them easier to find, which made it reasonable to use them in crafting at further distances. As a side-effect (because it was needed), the commit also meant that furniture could now define qualities like items could.

Long story short (and as you probably remember), Granada threw a poo poo-fit over it, adamantly denied to commit it, claiming that it warped space time and was incomprehensible that anyone would think it made sense. The community was largely against Granada over it (not blowing my own horn, he really was being a baby about it), and he blew the gently caress up.

Unfortunately it meant that not only did my commit not get merged (and I left because I wasn't putting up with it), but a couple other people that were looking forward to the qualities on furniture system didn't get that either, as when I offered to only merge just that and forget about the furniture crafting stuff, he went on about how that wouldn't make sense either, because no one would be using it, and why would you commit code that no one is using. Harumph!

Edit: Here's the commit where things started to turn sour: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/4904

2nd Edit: Ok, this is the first time I've actually reread those comments since they were first posted, and I'm just going to come out and say it. Kevin Granada is a dipshit. I remember him being unreasonable but not overly mean to, or overbearing on the community, but reading it all again makes it clear that he has some form of little emperor syndrome.

Final edit: This is the actual, exact post from Granada about the slave thing:

Kevin Granade posted:

You aren't trying to tell me what to do, but I should do what you say, if
there's a distinction there I can't see it.
I did listen, I did discuss the issue, but in the end I disagree.
If at the end of that process I'm allowed to act on my own opinion, I'm a
leader, if I'm not, I'm a slave.
I'm not a slave.
ONE MORE TIME: There's a way for you to override me, and that way is for
you to do my job, but better, good luck.

When I said that was the final edit, I lied: That post comes from this commit: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/5279

The King of Swag fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Aug 1, 2014

Slime
Jan 3, 2007
At one point I considered maybe trying my hand at contributing something to the game. It'd be good practice for my rusty coding skills, and contributing to an open source project would look good to an employer if I'm going to be coding. But seeing how the project is run and the kind of people working there made me decide not to. It just seems like a toxic environment to work in at this point.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
At least mods are making a lot of headway, so I'm sure once everything is fully JSon'd we'll see more mods. On a happy note they finally got around to making items decay into different items, and brewing is in. I might have to sperg out on it and expand it in a mod. Hopefully they'll move it to constructions and I can start adding coal clamps and such.

Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

The King of Swag posted:

I was actually just scouring the DDA forums looking for references to what you guys are talking about, and while I didn't find what I was looking for, I did read a lot of Granada's posts, and by the third post it was clear that he takes the game and the story way too loving seriously; either that or the man has no sense of humor and is incapable of detecting humor in other people. Someone made a joke about adding vampires with *sparkles* as a mutation, and he shut them down like they were dead serious about adding it.

And yet he has no qualms about naming an in-game grenade after himself that does magic things. Or a fish bowl containing a tiny goldfish with reindeer antlers.

Felime
Jul 10, 2009
The hell? Is that his fursona or something?

Turtlicious
Sep 17, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Felime posted:

The hell? Is that his fursona or something?

No, it's him pissing all over the game and marking his territory.

aerion111
Nov 29, 2011

Prodigy of Curiosity.
Master of Jacks.
Apprentice of Masks.
And, when fighting the forces of darkness, always remember: "Armor of Darkness, Weapon of Light"

Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

At least mods are making a lot of headway, so I'm sure once everything is fully JSon'd we'll see more mods. On a happy note they finally got around to making items decay into different items, and brewing is in. I might have to sperg out on it and expand it in a mod. Hopefully they'll move it to constructions and I can start adding coal clamps and such.

Yeah, at this point, I think the main hope for 'de-toxing' the community is to shift it over towards a mod-focused system.
Make it mod-friendly, and start merging in the more popular (and 'fitting') of the mods.
Especially since I'm sure some people want different things from the game, and that can be hard to deal with if it isn't customizable.

In the Minecraft modding community, there's a lot of stuff like one guy thinking that if he doesn't have to constantly worry about food, the game's no fun... And then another guy thinks food is boring busy-work that distracts him from building.
In Minecraft, that's solved by choosing not to install the 'make food really important' mod, in Cataclysm... You need to use the debug menu.
For a more relevant example, I'm sure a lot of people in this thread would choose not to install the 'vibrators and fursuits' mod(s).

Presumably, though, once modding is supported on a greater level, 're-skinning' the 'zlave' shouldn't be hard.
Maybe you want Lydia from Skyrim to carry your burdens, maybe you want it to be The Luggage from the Discworld series.
Maybe you just don't care about 'Zlavery' and would prefer anything else.

Turtlicious
Sep 17, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

Was that like, today today? Jesus loving christ.

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.
I've only recently started playing Cataclysm again (you can actually see when because my posting in this thread goes from very rarely to more often), but Granade is doing a very good job of ruining any enthusiasm to play that I had.

Anticheese posted:

Was that like, today today? Jesus loving christ.

It was: Kevin Granada on Zlavery

Apparently telling people to fork their own and gently caress off is a common thing with him:

Kevin Granada posted:

I read and understand your objections, I just don't agree with them. Feel free to make a fork, good luck with it, but kindly stop blaming me for your unwillingness to take feedback.

Fork Your Own

Edit: Wrong post

The King of Swag fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Aug 2, 2014

Tiler Kiwi
Feb 26, 2011

cool poo poo but lmao if the picture he uses in his dumb profile thing is really him. he looks exactly like you would expect

<(Putting stuff in shelves? Thats magic crap that doesnt make sense, I store all my stuff in a highly efficient pile in real life as well *takes swing of dew/Soylant mix*.)

nftyw
Dec 27, 2006

It is a game... where you will put your life on the line.
Lipstick Apathy
This is why I just stay in my cave and play 0.A exclusively. Let the drama stay in the forums.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

aerion111 posted:

Yeah, at this point, I think the main hope for 'de-toxing' the community is to shift it over towards a mod-focused system.
Make it mod-friendly, and start merging in the more popular (and 'fitting') of the mods.
Especially since I'm sure some people want different things from the game, and that can be hard to deal with if it isn't customizable.

In the Minecraft modding community, there's a lot of stuff like one guy thinking that if he doesn't have to constantly worry about food, the game's no fun... And then another guy thinks food is boring busy-work that distracts him from building.
In Minecraft, that's solved by choosing not to install the 'make food really important' mod, in Cataclysm... You need to use the debug menu.
For a more relevant example, I'm sure a lot of people in this thread would choose not to install the 'vibrators and fursuits' mod(s).

Presumably, though, once modding is supported on a greater level, 're-skinning' the 'zlave' shouldn't be hard.
Maybe you want Lydia from Skyrim to carry your burdens, maybe you want it to be The Luggage from the Discworld series.
Maybe you just don't care about 'Zlavery' and would prefer anything else.

As long as I am a free man, and not a slave to the whims of the community, then dildos will never die.

Yeah though, mods are probably the key. You can take out whatever you want with mods now, actually. Someone could take out the fursuits and dildos with a mod. Call it Tipper's PCRC or something.

Slime
Jan 3, 2007
Kevin Granade can go fork himself.

No wait then there'll be multiple versions of Kevin Granade poo poo poo poo poo poo.

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
Since those cash cards are in, it seems like they should give fuel pumps back a lot of fuel and just make them charge you to access it. It'd give cash cards more use, and also make a lot more sense with how modern gas pumps work.

Slime
Jan 3, 2007

Strudel Man posted:

Since those cash cards are in, it seems like they should give fuel pumps back a lot of fuel and just make them charge you to access it. It'd give cash cards more use, and also make a lot more sense with how modern gas pumps work.

Those exist if you add the automatic gas stations mod.

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
Ah.

Well then. Never mind.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
It really would have been nice if after all this time there was a way to play the game with a square font size for the world display while keeping regular aspect ratio for text. I mean, the tilesets are all pretty bad and the ascii in the game has always been good. Alternatively, is there a tileset that is basically just square ascii? cause that would be pretty great.

Turtlicious
Sep 17, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

emanresu tnuocca posted:

It really would have been nice if after all this time there was a way to play the game with a square font size for the world display while keeping regular aspect ratio for text. I mean, the tilesets are all pretty bad and the ascii in the game has always been good. Alternatively, is there a tileset that is basically just square ascii? cause that would be pretty great.

There is, look at your fontdata.json in the nightly.

Spoggerific
May 28, 2009
I use this square ASCII tileset. It looks pretty much exactly like default ASCII while being square.

e: Whoops, thought I was in the dwarf fortress thread. I'm dumb.

Kayle7
Mar 19, 2012

Little solace comes
to those who grieve
when thoughts keep drifting
as walls keep shifting
and this great blue world of ours
seems a house of leaves
moments before the wind.
DejaVuSansMono font, 100 X 65 Y. Basically full screen, square font. Use this it's really good

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
The retro tiles are really good and square.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

I use Retrodays because it's very complete and where it isn't it'll fall back to ASCII, rather than 'tile not found'. I'm not a big fan of the appearance, but the other sets have too many holes.

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
Hm. The limits on skill gain from easy tasks are certainly necessary in the abstract, but perhaps they're a little too strong at the moment. It seems like it's basically impossible to start homesteading without a book; you can dig a pit with 0 skill in construction, which can get you up to skill 1, but log walls require skill 2, and there's no good way to get there in the wilderness.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
I was playing on 0.A stable and not on the nightly so I didn't see the retro tile set, I guess this works rather nicely though for some reason it seems a lot slower with tiles than with ascii.

Thanks!

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Strudel Man posted:

Hm. The limits on skill gain from easy tasks are certainly necessary in the abstract, but perhaps they're a little too strong at the moment. It seems like it's basically impossible to start homesteading without a book; you can dig a pit with 0 skill in construction, which can get you up to skill 1, but log walls require skill 2, and there's no good way to get there in the wilderness.
I agree. You are hugely dependent on books now, not just to get recipes but in many cases to progress at all. The limit on skill gains really should be implemented as a matter of diminishing returns instead of a hard cut-off.

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Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
This game does provide opportunity to craft interesting narratives. I just set a mansion on fire before I was done with it, and wound up rollerblading frantically through the hallways as the ceiling collapsed behind me, ultimately diving out a window, yanking the rollerblades off, and putting on a pair of sandals I'd looted from the place. Then a short while later my APC skidded out of control after ramming a zombear, sending me careening back through the still-burning wreckage. :supaburn:

If not for the sheer pointless stupidity involved, that would have made a great action movie scene.

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