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Hobgoblin2099 posted:It's more armored, but also bulkier and slows him down a bit. Yeah - when you think about it, actual heavy metal armor is quite crude and low-tech compared to the light, flexible, yet still protective material in AA/AC.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:12
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That and there's also one more subtle distinction. Batman in Asylum and City has a number of gadgets that are designed to incapacitate. Pretty much all of Origins Batman's gadgets still require him to go up to someone and punch them in the face.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:14
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Origins' story is loving terrible. It's a long line of contrivances, plotholes and attempts to shoehorn in references to the Dark Knight Rises.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:26
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City was probably the best of the games overall. Asylum was very good for its time but feels clunky compared to City, and the boss fights were poo poo (why would the Joker inject himself with Titan and then not even bother to fight you directly?). Origins had the best story when viewed independently, but by the third game I was sick of the Joker always being the Big Bad when we're promised something else. Also, on the PS3 version, they pointlessly switched the shoulder buttons, meaning I kept turning on Detective Mode when I was trying to throw batarangs. Stupid muscle memory.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:26
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:That and there's also one more subtle distinction.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:26
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Regarding Titan Joker, the reason he injected himself was so that he and Batman could fight each other as monsters. Presumably, he lost interest in that once Batman cured himself. Still doesn't excuse the final battle for being lame, though. Sober posted:Except all the Origin gadgets are functionally the same (minus the line launcher for the remote claw) as City's? I might be remembering wrong, since it has been a while, but I recall that outside of stealth sections, Origins encouraged using your fists a lot more than your gadgets. Like, the Concussive Detonator didn't really do much of anything and lasted a short while, the Gel was unreliable due to the proximity upgrade messing up the effectiveness of certain kinds of takedowns, the Shock Gloves speak for themselves, etc.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:34
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I'm struggling to remember what the Joker's plan originally was in Origins.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:36
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I'm struggling to remember what the Joker's plan originally was in Origins. Hire assassins to kill Batman, kill Loeb, make Black Mask look dumb, and blow up buildings. Joker in Origins really felt tacked on, even though the lead up to his initial appearance was decent enough.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:39
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I feel the opposite. The Joker is awesome and he would be sorely missed from any Arkham game at this point.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:45
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Mentioned it before but one of my favorite things about Origins is that Batman actually gets a character arc (unlike the other games) where he learns to trust others in his mission*, and a number of the side cases are organic to the themes of his arc. With people like Anarky and the Riddler we see the alternative of others trying to help the city in their own ways... misguided to him, meanwhile they end up perceiving him as misguided in the end (and there's some truth there), meanwhile Gordan lumps them all together as vigilantes until his own arc later on learning to accept that Batman can be helpful to his cause too. Perhaps if Batman had his revelation before taking them down he could have found ways to utilize them and convert them from their causes, if not to his in some limited capacity at least to keep them busy under his guidance. Especially with someone like the Riddler you can see how Batman's methods turned him into more of a criminal than he was before (the escalation another common theme of Batman stories) until Arkham City riddler is batshit insane with hostages in insane traps and forced to roam around the room or explode. *and if they're predictably doing Jason Todd in Arkham Knight it sounds like theres might be an actual arc for him there too with the inverse of this and how the people around him are at risk because of him whether he likes it or not Anti-Hero posted:Having not played Origins, I'm a little confused as to why Batman's suit is more advanced looking than the suit in AA & AC. Doesn't Origins take place before the previous games? I would think the suit would be more primitive. Honestly based on the similar looking one in Arkham Knight they probably just preferred the design, and its just one of those flaws of prequels where you're really not suppose to question it. Pretty common thing, although usually you see that with gameplay mechanics that they like to much to drop now they've introduced them even though logically they shouldnt be there. shamelessly stolen comparison shot  Doctor Spaceman posted:I'm struggling to remember what the Joker's plan originally was in Origins. Kill Batman, take over the crime in the city and cause chaos. He's just masquerading as Black Mask cause he was just a relative nobody before that night without the clout/cash to back up that sort of offer and attract those assassins. It's vengeance for him perceiving Batman as having turned him into what he is. It's only after Batman saves his life and sends him to blackgate that he realizes there's so much more fun to be had with batman alive and tempted with situations challenging him to break his own code.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:46
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I feel the opposite. The Joker is awesome and he would be sorely missed from any Arkham game at this point. That's fine but he doesn't need to be the big bad in every drat game.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:48
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Regarding Titan Joker, the reason he injected himself was so that he and Batman could fight each other as monsters. Presumably, he lost interest in that once Batman cured himself.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:49
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I'm not really fond of the direction Joker has gone in the comics. Prior to New 52, he was a force to be reckoned with. Not just to Batman, but the entire DC universe. There was even a whole series where he gets Mxyzptlk powers and fucks with Superman.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:53
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mind the walrus posted:That's fine but he doesn't need to be the big bad in every drat game. I think you're right but on the other hand it really just makes sense that he is. He's Batman's foil in every possible way. Where Bruce Wayne is basically western society's vision of the perfect male, The Joker is not special in any way, he's just a really intelligent person- that's it. Beyond his ability to make you laugh and horrify you at the same time, he's just a (insane) normal man. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 03:54
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mind the walrus posted:That's fine but he doesn't need to be the big bad in every drat game. Same, although I really liked him in AO pulling strings and causing chaos where hes the one who set everything in motion but a lot of the stuff happening is based on those dominos he knocked down and people he set onto Batman. There are so many situations where he's clearly not in control (Bane constantly telling him to gently caress himself and knowing he could kill him at any moment), and the final "battle" with him basically just being nothing but Batman beating him down for all the poo poo he pulled was awesome. Joker shouldn't really be a boss fight like that terrible titan joker from AA. When he first showed up there was an initial feeling of apprehension and joker fatigue (although the reveal was pretty awesome), but the way he was handled throughout the story made me change my mind and really glad he was there. But here's hoping they stick with him dead for Arkham Knight.
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Aug 25, 2014 04:00
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I don't particularly like Joker in any of his incarnations (I often feel like the writers love him so much that he turns into almost as much of a Mary Sue character as Batman is) but the Origins story only got stronger when he showed up and it was my favorite writing of him in pretty much anything. It was such a novel change - Joker having no real interest in Batman other than wanting to kill him so he's out of the way, moving on to "hey you just saved my life, what are you doing, stupid?" and eventually ending in the full blown "Hahahahaha wow you are tons of fun, we're gonna be buddies forever" thing. Even the plan to force Batman to kill Bane was genuinely clever (even if electroshocking somebody back to life is dumb). God, I loved Origins Joker. Anti-Hero posted:Having not played Origins, I'm a little confused as to why Batman's suit is more advanced looking than the suit in AA & AC. Doesn't Origins take place before the previous games? I would think the suit would be more primitive. There's also no in game explanation for why he has the grapnel accelerator when it was supposedly still being tested in City. Of course, the actual explanation is that Origins is loving huge and it would be a pain in the rear end to get around without it.
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Aug 25, 2014 04:42
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Overall, I think Origins is the weakest of the three. I never, ever had as much fun with it as I did with Asylum or City. That being said, it DEFINITELY has the strongest story of the series so far, which is odd because I usually hate being retold origin stories, especially Batman's because I don't think there's a single solitary person in the solar system who hasn't heard Batman's origin story by this point. Asylum is a really good, really well designed game with the best level design in the series so far, and the combat is still great, but I dunno... going back and playing it makes me really REALLY miss gliding around. Still though, the focus on it was really tight, and there's only one or two parts I felt were really badly designed (gently caress you killer crocs lair). City definitely has the best "I am Batman" feel so far... getting to glide around, stopping random muggings, the combat being the best its ever been in the series. My problem is that in terms of story, it's the weakest of the bunch. Too many villains are in play in the main game (and even the side missions had too many i think), and there's a few DEFINITE parts that are deliberate and unabashed filler in order to pad out the game time. All in all, when I want to replay an Arkham game, I typically default to City simply because I think it's the most fun and the combat is the best, but they all have their strong points. I can't wait for Arkham Knight to come along, blow them all out of the water, and end the series on a seriously high loving note.
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Aug 25, 2014 04:58
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AA also still looks good. Like, really loving good.
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Aug 25, 2014 05:11
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My main issue(s) with Origins is that at the end of the game, I felt like Batman was pretty drat dumb trying to make sure that none of Riddler's Super Secret Secrets were never revealed to the Gotham public, because...I'm not really sure. When I'm agreeing with what Riddler is doing over the actions of your playable character, something is wrong. Also, at the end, the entire Diamond District is a full-scale, active war zone that Bats seems to have no interest in even attempting to fix or clean up before the citizenry wakes up in a few hours. Outside of saving (most of) the bridge, I didn't feel like I accomplished very much to help Gotham, and for chunks of the city, things were noticeably worse off. One thing that drives me crazy about going back to AA is not being able to perch on things like railings--you just jump over them or down past them. redbackground fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 05:23
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redbackground posted:My main issue(s) with Origins is that at the end of the game, I felt like Batman was pretty drat dumb trying to make sure that none of Riddler's Super Secret Secrets were never revealed to the Gotham public, because...I'm not really sure. When I'm agreeing with what Riddler is doing over the actions of your playable character, something is wrong. I am totally with you on this, but part of it is probably personal bias because Riddler is my favorite character in the entire Batman mythos, bar none. That said, having had this conversation with people in this very thread before, I think what it comes down to is this: Batman isn't wrong to stop Eddie from releasing all of the data in one fell swoop. There's so much corruption in Gotham that it could lead to a lot of riots. Gotham knows its government and police force are corrupt, but they may not know just how deep it runs and they can pretend it isn't as bad as it is if they don't know the details. And Eddie did kill at least two people as you discover in the first radio tower you have to open up, although Eddie also mentions working with Black Mask at that tower and that never comes up again at ALL, so I think there's something off about that one. What Bats should have done (and may have done if it was later in his career and he wasn't stuck on the "I'LL DO IT ALL BY MYSELF" thing) is talked Eddie down a bit, maybe got him to release the information gradually and not made an enemies out of each other. Although admittedly, Bats couldn't really have predicted that Eddie would be the extremely obsessive type with an inferiority complex and an incessant need to be right.
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Aug 25, 2014 05:37
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What irritated me about it was that Batman initially says,"You can't release that information, people will be hurt!" and I got the impression that Batman had already read the pertinent information and it was about relatively "innocent" or even ordinary people who were going to get their dirty laundry aired out in public. But as you continue playing and unlock more information it becomes apparent Batman is only getting access to the information as the night goes on and it's all shown as exclusively dealing with the massively corrupt and monstrous crime bosses, crooked politicians etc. Exposing their crimes makes perfect sense in that regard, even if the Riddler himself is a greedy jerk and you don't for a second believe any claims he makes to be doing this for some greater good.
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Aug 25, 2014 06:09
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redbackground posted:Outside of saving (most of) the bridge, I didn't feel like I accomplished very much to help Gotham, and for chunks of the city, things were noticeably worse off. The batman's dilema. By helping the city he often indirectly creates situations that put the city in danger (One of my favorite Alfred moments is when he recommends they just chill at home all night eating turkey cause no batman, no assassination, no prize money. But Batman knows the assassins will go after innocents to lure him out so he must fight anyway, and the only reason they're there is because he exists to begin with, something Gordon and batman himself point out) With regards to the Riddler, I think there's an intentional parallel there. There is merit to his mission, but while it might take down a lot of bad people some good people (Gordon specifically) were caught in the crossfire. Maybe the ends would have justified the means, maybe not. Its hard to say, but (like CuwiKhons said) Batman makes a mistake in how he handles the Riddler, creating a monster from someone that could have been an ally because Batman's main obstacle in the game is refusing to see anyone aside from himself making a difference and refuses to accept or acknowledge help (even from Alfred who does nothing but support and protect him, yet he treats him like dirt most of the game). Had those lifechanging experiences (bonding with Gordon and the close call with Alfred) happened before his encounter maybe he would have been wise enough to make things work instead. Same with Anarky who is also somewhat sympathetic (and even applauds Batman for dismantling the bombs instead of being upset with him), showing that it would be possible to guide and influence Anarky who admires the Batman, especially as someone Batman realizes is "just some kid" (much like the wards he will one day take in and help him in his war on crime). Nigma, Anarky, Batman, Gordin... all these men initially share a dream of making Gotham a better place but all are working from different perspectives with imperfect plans even though they want the same thing. Had things gone differently, maybe all could have found a common bond and worked/influenced each other to protect the city instead of just Gordon and Batman. Not really material here, but one of my favorite Riddler incarnations is a brief period in the comics where actually works as a private eye and uses his abilities for the common good. Oh and yeah the diamond district being a warzone still is p hosed up, but I think that's something based in game design choices rather than story related. They just dont wanna cut off the free roam of the sandbox for people who've completed the game so we just accept the ever respawning (although uh... now unemployed) thugs. Jerusalem posted:What irritated me about it was that Batman initially says,"You can't release that information, people will be hurt!" and I got the impression that Batman had already read the pertinent information and it was about relatively "innocent" or even ordinary people who were going to get their dirty laundry aired out in public. But as you continue playing and unlock more information it becomes apparent Batman is only getting access to the information as the night goes on and it's all shown as exclusively dealing with the massively corrupt and monstrous crime bosses, crooked politicians etc. Exposing their crimes makes perfect sense in that regard, even if the Riddler himself is a greedy jerk and you don't for a second believe any claims he makes to be doing this for some greater good. I just assumed there was a lot more files that the game just doesn't show us because its not really related to any characters of interest in the game. Most of the stuff we get is already about known crime bosses, assassins, and corrupt cops because those are the characters we've dealt with, but there is one file on Gordon misappropriating resources or something along those lines (something about Barbara scanning private police frequencies to keep his family safe from the cops out to get him). I figured that was symbolic of all those other people probably in the files that aren't corrupt themselves but end up with dirt on their hands by merely having to exist in a corrupt system, sorta like bribes being a necessary aspect of business in a place like Russia. Or other cops who aren't actively dirty but take the occasionally hush money because they dont want some Serpico poo poo like was planned for Gordon... I imagine Bullock is probably like that.
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Aug 25, 2014 06:27
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Jerusalem posted:What irritated me about it was that Batman initially says,"You can't release that information, people will be hurt!" and I got the impression that Batman had already read the pertinent information and it was about relatively "innocent" or even ordinary people who were going to get their dirty laundry aired out in public. But as you continue playing and unlock more information it becomes apparent Batman is only getting access to the information as the night goes on and it's all shown as exclusively dealing with the massively corrupt and monstrous crime bosses, crooked politicians etc. Exposing their crimes makes perfect sense in that regard, even if the Riddler himself is a greedy jerk and you don't for a second believe any claims he makes to be doing this for some greater good. I figured that while the idea behind what Enigma was doing was somewhat heroic, in practice releasing information like that all at once would cause catastrophic political destabilisation? Wouldn't a situation like that require a somewhat gentler touch?
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Aug 25, 2014 06:41
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BreakAtmo posted:I figured that while the idea behind what Enigma was doing was somewhat heroic, in practice releasing information like that all at once would cause catastrophic political destabilisation? Wouldn't a situation like that require a somewhat gentler touch? That was kind of the point, though. Enigma wanted riots and chaos. Innocent people would have gotten hurt, and he would have been okay with this, because in his master plan this would call for a reform of the system and make everything change for the better. Batman never wants innocents to be caught in the crossfire, therefore he and Enigma are at odds. People saying that if it were a bit later that he could have talked Enigma down don't understand this incarnation of the Riddler, I think. He considers himself above everyone, so I don't think he would stoop so low as to allow himself to work with a "lesser" intelligence like Batman. In his mind, his plan was absolutely perfect and flawless, and releasing chosen snippets slowly with Batman's help wouldn't have been nearly as effective because that's not his plan, dammit, and obviously his plan is the best because it's his.
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Aug 25, 2014 13:17
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Did he say he wanted the riots? I legit don't remember. It's certainly possible, this incarnation of Edward Nigma is a huge rear end in a top hat compared to his other versions. Maybe Bats couldn't have talked him down but he also didn't even try, just jumped straight to picking a fight, and it makes Bats come off as the bigger jackass even though he's objectively in the right. I'm not calling it bad writing or anything, everybody was perfectly in character because Bats was genuinely a jackass to everybody for pretty much the entire game.
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Aug 25, 2014 13:58
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He was very dismissive about the riots and stuff, comparing them to Batman breaking someone's legs or arm while stopping their crime, but quickly gets lost in his own ego and falls into the ME ME ME ME speech. He's a bit like Anarky in that while his main argument is pretty solid, the context - and his later behaviour (in Anaky's case the very next sentence) - contradicts it somewhat. I'm curious what story arc Arkham Knight will have with him. I'm also praying that the Knight isn't just a Scarecrow hallucination.
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Aug 25, 2014 14:13
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Speaking of Scarecrow hallucinations, this literally just occurred to me but the odds of Joker appearing in at least one of the inevitable fear gas segments seems pretty loving likely. If he ends up speaking, do you think they'll get Hamill do it since it would just be a short segment or just use Troy Baker?
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Aug 25, 2014 14:36
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redbackground posted:My main issue(s) with Origins is that at the end of the game, I felt like Batman was pretty drat dumb trying to make sure that none of Riddler's Super Secret Secrets were never revealed to the Gotham public, because...I'm not really sure. When I'm agreeing with what Riddler is doing over the actions of your playable character, something is wrong. Not to mention the fact that Riddler releases information on Mayor Hill and gets him booted out of office in the Mr. Freeze DLC. poptart_fairy posted:in Anaky's case the very next sentence I love how Anarky gives a huge rant to Batman after you beat him where he changes his mind about Batman about four times in the span of five minutes. 
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 15:18
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CuwiKhons posted:Speaking of Scarecrow hallucinations, this literally just occurred to me but the odds of Joker appearing in at least one of the inevitable fear gas segments seems pretty loving likely. If he ends up speaking, do you think they'll get Hamill do it since it would just be a short segment or just use Troy Baker? I think they might ask permission to use clips from his previous work in the Arkham series, but I doubt he'd come back even for a couple of lines.
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Aug 25, 2014 15:27
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Troy Baker's the new Joker. He voiced him in the Arkham animated movie
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Aug 25, 2014 23:29
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Troy Baker's the new Joker. He voiced him in the Arkham animated movie I dunno, that could just as easily mean he's Young Joker since AoA is set shortly after Origins. I think they'd get Hamill back for a final scene.
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Aug 26, 2014 01:45
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BreakAtmo posted:I dunno, that could just as easily mean he's Young Joker since AoA is set shortly after Origins. I think they'd get Hamill back for a final scene. No. They wouldn't. Hamill's been very firm on this, he wasn't even going to do Arkham City until he realized it would've been a nice swan song for the character. He's done with the character, and even if he isn't, he's done enough where it's gonna take more than a single scene to get him back to doing it.
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Aug 26, 2014 01:59
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Crappy Jack posted:No. They wouldn't. Hamill's been very firm on this, he wasn't even going to do Arkham City until he realized it would've been a nice swan song for the character. He's done with the character, and even if he isn't, he's done enough where it's gonna take more than a single scene to get him back to doing it. He said the only time he would break this vow is if they did a Killing Joke animated movie. Considering they've done Year One and Dark Knight Returns, that isn't outside the realm of possibility. Otherwise I can see him giving an okay to reuse lines he's already recorded, but if they need anything new, they'll definitely be getting Troy Baker again.
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Aug 26, 2014 02:26
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I've currently got a GTX 660 in my PC and in looking at the screenshots for Arkham Knight, i don't think there's any way it could get the game looking that good  Does anyone who knows a bit about graphics cards have an idea of which Nvidia model would be needed to produce graphics like that? Although i'm assuming that closer to release date there'll be a few cards with the game bundled with it which'll be a good indicator of what to get. I only got my 660 back in Feb, but i figure that if i get a card capable of pushing out AK then it's a card that should be capable of top performance for the entire PS4/Xbone generation.
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Aug 26, 2014 21:42
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So, I decided to give Arkham Origins another playthrough after not touching it for the last six months. This time I went in not comparing it to AC, and just taking it on it's own merits. And it still irritates me every time I play. I haven't had any game-breaking bugs, but there are so many annoying little design flaws that it brings down the whole experience. The city layout has no flow to it. It's big an sprawling, but it's a pain to get around anywhere. The large building to the west of the Wonder Tower in particular is just a massive wall that gets in the way, and the bridge itself really needs to a better layout if it's going to be the main path from island to island. There is some nice verticality to the south island, but it's hampered by the general lack of convenient grapple points you'll find all over the city. So many times I'll start a glide with several structures within easy reach of the gun, but the prompt either never appears, or pops up about the time Batman's nose brushes the structure you wanted to grapple accelerate from. My biggest beef is easily the combat. I know the pacing was changed from AC's, and I don't personally care for it since it boils down to hammering counter or evade after every attack. But that aside, there are some legitimate grievances here. The best thing about the AA/AC games was how the game would realize which enemy in a group you wanted to hit, based on which attack you used. Takedowns would prioritize armored foes, batarangs homed in on projectile throwers or charging titans, etc. Origins completely drops the ball with this. So many times I've punched an armored dude and lost my combo when I aimed for the normal thug in front of him, or been hit with a thrown chair because my 'rang nailed the guy in front of me instead of the thrower. There's a lot less polish here and it keeps the whole thing from clicking like the previous games did. It's a shame they couldn't get it right since this game focuses on the combat far more than the predator segments.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:38
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Kin posted:I've currently got a GTX 660 in my PC and in looking at the screenshots for Arkham Knight, i don't think there's any way it could get the game looking that good I can say with 100% certainty that it will run the game absolutely fine with no issues whatsoever. Source: I have a GTX 660 too 
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Aug 27, 2014 00:41
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The horrid map layout in AO was intentional- it was meant to break up loading times (no, it wasn't a good idea).
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Aug 27, 2014 06:07
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CuwiKhons posted:Speaking of Scarecrow hallucinations, this literally just occurred to me but the odds of Joker appearing in at least one of the inevitable fear gas segments seems pretty loving likely. If he ends up speaking, do you think they'll get Hamill do it since it would just be a short segment or just use Troy Baker? The Arkham Knight is just straight up going to be the Joker's reanimated corpse in a mechanical life support armor because everything has to be about the Joker at all times. Either that or it's the Joker's number one fan or minion or son or daughter or identical twin brother instead.
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Aug 27, 2014 07:00
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Kin posted:I've currently got a GTX 660 in my PC and in looking at the screenshots for Arkham Knight, i don't think there's any way it could get the game looking that good Dude don't worry, I have a 770 in my PC and I'm not convinced I'll be able to run it. Rocksteady has a pretty good rep when it comes to PC ports, but still...
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Aug 27, 2014 07:03
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Why are you concerned about just being able to run it? The PS4's graphics card isn't exactly a beast. Assuming the PC version gets extra bells and whistles beyond the PS4 version you'll probably need something expensive to max everything out, but you should easily be able to match the console versions.
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Aug 27, 2014 07:11
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