Read about a new car? Thats the 2024 Giant Piece of Shit

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heated game moment: Oct 30, 2003; Lipstick Apathy

Throatwarbler posted:

That's kind of par for the course for all cars though, outside of numbers matching Ferrariis

In a sense but I think in this case it's an indicator that the market for six figure Corvettes has little support and most people in the secondary market aren't willing to pay the premium over the Z06. Z06s on the other hand retain their value in the used market exceptionally well. See also: Porsche Turbo S vs GT3

# ? Aug 24, 2014 19:26

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 04:42

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Here have some more Corvette news you loving animals

http://www.hotrod.com/feature_stories/1412_the_2015_corvette_z06s_lt4_v8/viewall.html

quote:

The C7 Corvette Z06 was always gonna happen. Back in 2008, even when the U.S. economy was down a few cylinders and the C6 ZR1 had yet to start production, Tadge Juechter, Corvette chief engineer, knew he wanted an engine above LT1 for a track package on the C7 Corvette. By 2009, the project was underway. The development team, led by Jordan Lee and John Rydzewski, considered all options, but the lightweight, compact, power-dense small-block was a shoo-in. It was the best option for packing enough power under the Corvette�s low-slung hood, and the recent addition of direct injection opened up even more room to make power.

Chevrolet LT4 John Rydzewski And Jordan Lee John Rydzewski (left) and Jordan Lee are responsible for the small-block development. They are standing in one of the dozens of dyno cells at GM�s Powertrtain Facility in Pontiac, Michigan. The ducting behind them is the combustion air unit that feeds the engines. Dyno operators can vary the temperature, pressure, and dew point of incoming air to simulate extreme cold, humidity, and altitude. Some test cells go to -40 degrees Fahrenheit, but they wouldn�t tell us to what extreme they take their altitude tests.
Because the engine was destined for the Z06, engineers were trying to replace the LS7, so the initial target, shaped in part by 0�60 and quarter-mile goals, was a bit more modest than 650 hp. When the supercharger development came through with tremendous airflow numbers, engineers knew they�d be able to blow the LS7 away and spent time tuning the camshaft to fatten up the powerband, where drivers spend most of their time. The result is an engine that beats the LS7�s peak torque by 1,500 rpm, beats the 911 Turbo�s 520hp peak output by around 4,000 rpm, and has a 50�75-lb-ft advantage over the C6 ZR1�s LS9 for much of the powerband. Right out of the box, in 2013, the Z06 was breaking C6 ZR1 lap times on GM�s test track before suspension and tire tuning even got into full swing. When it was happy with the results, Chevrolet announced the Z06�s supercharged LT4 produces 650 hp at 6,400 rpm and 650 lb-ft of torque at 3,600 rpm. Here are the engineers and the components that got them there.

SHORT-BLOCK

According to John Rydzewski, assistant chief engineer for small-block V8s, the Gen 5 LT1 was a great foundation for building the LT4. �The block is very robust, we didn�t have to change much.� In this regard, the LT1 and LT4 sharing architecture with GM�s trucks is an advantage. In a truck towing a trailer, an engine could be at wide-open throttle (WOT) for 10 minutes at a time or more, and the blocks are designed to handle that sort of stress. How long could a Z06 go at WOT without running out of road or attracting a lot of law-enforcement attention?
Chevrolet Lt4 David Kimble Cutaway
One issue that faced engineers was equalizing the pressure across different parts of the crankcase. The Gen 5 block has bulkhead breathing cavities just above the cross-bolts on the nodular-iron main caps to allow air to circulate between cylinder banks, yet that proved to be insufficient on the LT4. Because all oil drainback feeds through the center of the block, differences in crankcase pressure can prevent oil from draining properly, causing the PCV to suck up oil rather than crankcase gases. �It�s critical that we get oil out of the valley,� says Alan Rice, the design responsible engineer for ventilation and lubrication. The solution was simple: two holes, roughly 5⁄8 inch in diameter, were drilled into each lifter valley. A PCV separator, which is unique to the LT4, was developed to keep oily air from being drawn through the intake, where it could end up collecting on the back of the intake valves. A little bit of oil on a port-injected engine can help lubricate valves, but because all Gen 5 V8s are direct injected, there�s no fuel washing the back of the intake valve. That means oil in the PCV system can end up sticking to the back of the hot intake valves impeding airflow and eventually preventing the valves from seating properly.

We spoke with Mike Garza, design system engineer for the block, crank, cylinder head, valvetrain, and lubrication system, who told us that a forged LT1 crankshaft would fail during extreme dyno tests when subjected to LT4 levels of power, so they engineered a unique crankshaft. Compared to the LT1, it has increased rolling loads (the amount of force applied to the crank fillets). Steel wheels are rolled over the fillet at an angle to extend the fatigue life. Because the cranks were failing at the same spot at the rear of the block, the lightening hole at the last rod journal was eliminated and tungsten slugs were added to the No. 8 counterweight to compensate.

Chevrolet LT4 Mike Garza Mike Garza with the LT4�s unique piston and rod. The last Z06 engine, the LS7, used titanium connecting rods to help balance its larger pistons, while the LT4 uses powdered-metal rods that get additional machining to remove mass before they are shot-peened.
Chevrolet LT4 Forged Piston The forged piston has a slightly different topography than the cast LT1 piston to lower the compression ratio to 10:1. Ring lands are hard-anodized. The small end of the rod is tapered and the wristpin uses a diamond-like carbon coating to reduce friction.
Chevrolet LT4 Forged Crankshaft The LT4�s forged crankshaft eliminates one of the connecting-rod journal lightening holes for additional strength.
CYLINDER HEADS AND VALVETRAIN

The LT4�s cylinder heads are very similar to the LT1 because the two were developed in tandem. More than 6 million hours of engine analysis went into the Gen 5 engine, with Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) used to design the intake and exhaust ports digitally before they were ever cast in aluminum. The results are ports and combustion chambers that are efficient and flow a tremendous amount of air, even more than the LS9. The design of the combustion chamber gives the charge-air-mixture motion that ensures combustion starts in the center of the chamber. Because of the increased air volume added by the supercharger, compression is 10:1 compared to 11.5:1 in the LT1.
Chevrolet LT4 Cylinder Head You�d have a hard time telling an LT4 head from an LT1 head at first glance, although there are casting indicators that allow the milling machines to identify between parts.
The valve angles are the same as the LT1, at 12.5 degrees for the intake and 12 degrees for the exhaust, allowing the LT4 heads to use a lot of the same machining as the higher-volume V8s like the 5.3L and 6.2L Ecotec3 truck engines found in the Chevrolet Silverado, Tahoe, and Suburban, as well as their counterparts at GMC. Simply put, without the volume of the truck V8s and the economy of scale that affords the Corvette team, the C7 would have been a lot more expensive. What makes the LT4 head different are its valves, valve seats, and composition. Unlike the LT1 heads, which are cast in 316 aluminum like the block, LT4 heads are rotocast using 356T6 aluminum alloy to better withstand the increased combustion loads. The LT4 also uses titanium intake valves and corresponding valve seats to get reciprocating mass down.

The LT4 has the same 6,600-rpm fuel cut-off as the LT1, so the two engines use the same valvesprings. However, because the intake charge is under boost, the LT4 uses less lift, 0.472 versus 0.511 inch on the LT1. The supercharger ensures the engine is ingesting much more air and fuel compared to the LT1, so the exhaust got a 17 percent boost in lift, from 0.472 to 0.551 inch, and more duration to ensure it has enough time to escape the cylinder. The 0.551-inch lift on the LT1 intake and the LT4 exhaust is no coincidence; it�s the limit of the Active Fuel Management (AFM) lifters. The AFM system allows half of the engine to shut off by controlling oil to the four sets of lifters. With the lifters collapsed, the cam�s lift isn�t transferred to the valves and fuel is also shut off for those cylinders while the rest of the engine continues to run as a V4. The LT4 was even tested to operate in V4 mode under boost, but it was not found to be more efficient that way. With a small frontal area, low-drag bodywork, and a tall cruising gear in both the seven-speed manual and eight-speed automatic, the Z06 is able to maintain highway speeds and up to 3,000 rpm in AFM mode for fuel economy unheard of in a car at its performance level.

Chevrolet LT4 Camshaft LT4 heads get additional exhaust lift and cam duration, with slightly less intake lift. Note the three-sided lobe at the rear for the direct-injection fuel pump.
LUBRICATION

Calibrated with a spring that determines the pressure curve, an active displacement oil pump unique to the LT4 helps increase efficiency. For normal operation, the pump provides 44�58 psi of oil pressure. As engine speed goes up, bearings require more oil, so pressure increases to the 65�72-psi range. In case of spring failure, the pump defaults to the higher pressure.
Chevrolet LT4 Alan Rice Alan Rice worked with the lubrication system and PCV system on LT4, both in computer simulation and on dyno tilt stands to ensure the extreme cornering and braking forces of racing don�t starve the engine for oil.
Adding power adds heat, and not just in places you�d expect it. Oil squirters help cool the piston from underneath, which means more heat is absorbed by the oil. The LT4�s oil pan has a cooler, bypassed at low oil temps, that�s fed from the radiator�s output. Compared to the LT1, the LT4�s oil cooler has more cross-sectional area for a 20 percent increase in cooling. The LT1 is also offered with dry-sump oiling, and the LT4�s system is similar with both engines using a salt-core, sand-cast pan with oil passages cast in place. The LT4 uses a single pickup for the scavenge side that runs to the scavenge pump. From the pump, oil is routed to the tank, where the lift tube has a centrifugal oil/air separator. Oil control is always critical to engine longevity, and due to the Z06�s ability to create up to 1.2 g�s in lateral acceleration on some tracks, the development team put the dry-sump oil pan through grueling tests. Before the engine was ever put on a track or a test stand, however, the pump parameters, bearing sizes, bearing clearances, and flow restrictions were all modeled in a computer.

Chevrolet LT4 Cylindrical Oil Tank The kickout in the extruded cylindrical oil tank adds volume needed for the most demanding of track work. Service fill is 9.75 quarts.
SUPERCHARGER AND INTERCOOLER

In order to fit the supercharger within the confines of the C7 Corvette and still meet pedestrian safety regulations for vehicles sold in Europe, an intercooler design like the one found on the LS9 wasn�t going to work. There had to be area under the hood available for the bodywork to deflect and absorb impact before hitting anything solid. To keep the sleek lines of the C7 Corvette intact and still give the driver a great view of the track ahead, engineer Dan Hommes was tasked with removing 3 inches of height out of the supercharger and intercooler assembly without losing airflow or power. In engineering terms, that�s quite a challenge, as the LS9 was already very compact.
�The airflow that we were able to produce is just incredible� � Dan Hommes

Chevrolet LT4 Dan Hommes Dan Hommes was responsible for making the LT4�s supercharger/intercooler/intake assembly as compact as possible without impeding airflow. With the lid off the assembly, you can see the intercooler heat exchangers. Cool water comes in to the front port, it�s split to each side, and runs to the back and comes forward, so heat absorption is equal from front to back. Because water is better at heat absorption, the intercooler circuit runs 60 percent water and 40 percent Dexcool for better heat rejection. In comparison, the engine coolant runs a 50/50 mix.
In the LS9, the intercooler heat exchangers are in the lid, the only place to put them because the Eaton TVS 2300 supercharger rotors take up a lot of room in the lifter valley. The rocker covers weren�t going to change, so that meant the supercharger couldn�t get any wider. The solution was to use supercharger rotors 10mm smaller in diameter. The existing TVS 1650 rotor size was not quite large enough for the power levels the LT4 team was targeting. To get more air volume, Eaton built a longer set of TVS 1650 rotors that displace 1,740 cc per revolution, a size unique to the LT4. The smaller-diameter rotors mean less air per revolution, but the reduced mass and inertia allow them to turn 34 percent faster than the 2300 rotor set. In the LS9, max supercharger speed was 15,080 rpm; on the LT4, the rotors spin at 20,150 rpm at max engine speed. An added benefit of the smaller supercharger rotors is that less torque is required to drive them.

The smaller rotor set allowed the intercooler heat exchangers to move out of the lid and down between the rotors and the rocker covers. The LS9 intercooler heat exchangers were made using a tube and fin construction that featured flattened tubes without any internal structure, like a radiator. For the LT4, Chevrolet used intercoolers made by Dana Thermal Products that use clamshell-stamped plates that use a turbulizer plate�essentially a fin inside the plate�to vastly increase the surface area the coolant comes into contact with. The heat exchanger has 15 fins per centimeter�that�s 50 percent higher density than on the LS9. So even though it�s 24 percent smaller, the intercooler rejects 10 percent more heat than the LS9. On a typical 68-degree day, the discharge air from the supercharger can reach 248 degrees. By the time it passes the heat exchanger, those charge air temps are down to less than 120 degrees.

Chevrolet LT4 Above Supercharger The supercharger discharges straight up in the middle, the ribs in the lid are an attempt to dampen the rotor pulse frequency. To add enough cast aluminum to remove the high-frequency noise would hamper airflow. Instead, the lid got a panel with an elastomer that�s a lot like a rubberized sound-dampener you�d put on your floorboards.
We asked how the LT4�s intake operates when it�s not under boost, and whether or not the intercooler impedes airflow. Dan told us he initially thought the small plenum volume might be an issue, yet even when not under boost, distribution isn�t a problem and the front cylinders fill just fine. As for the heat exchanger, we learned that in order for the exchanger to efficiently cool the air, there has to be a pressure drop. At peak boost, the pressure-drop requirement is only 0.5 psi, and when it�s not under boost, there�s little restriction because there�s just less air.

The intercooler packaging wasn�t the only detail that was improved over the LS9�s design. The intake airflow path was developed using computer simulation, with a goal of minimizing restriction. The end design has volumetric efficiency of 92 percent, up from 89 percent on the LS9. Combined with the cylinder heads ability to flow more air, the LT4 is able to make more power than the LS9 with less boost in the middle of the powerband, while peak boost is similar at 9.71 psi. Remember, boost is just an indication of how much restriction the supercharger is facing when trying to move air through the engine. In total, the LT4�s supercharger is more efficient, more powerful, more compact, and 20 pounds lighter.

Chevrolet LT4 Above Supercharger View The gear case cover has a dampening material because it�s practically inside the car. The gears sit in a bearing housing sealed for life filled with a special synthetic oil. The development team monitored gear oil during development and temps never got hot, thanks in part to their proximity to the intercooler.
FUEL SYSTEM

Yoon Lee was the only member of the team developing the LT4 that also directly worked on the LS9. His focus was the fuel system, and he�s proud to have engineered the largest direct-injection (DI) gasoline pump in the industry. Yoon�s description of how they got the pump to deliver extra fuel to feed the increased demand from the LT4 was right up our alley: �We bored and stroked it.�
Chevrolet LT4 Yoon Lee Yoon Lee holds the LT4�s DI fuel pump, the largest of its kind for a gasoline engine. It was �bored and stroked� compared to the version used on the LT1. It�s so precisely machined that the plunger doesn�t use any sort of rings.
The DI fuel pump has a 26 percent higher displacement, thanks to a 1mm-larger-diameter plunger and 0.3mm more lift on the cam. The development team considered a high-pressure fuel pump driven off the accessory drive, but that idea was shelved in favor of a more compact, more reliable cam-driven pump. On direct-injected DOHC engines, there are a lot of places to mount a pump, but the single-cam Gen 5 small-block didn�t leave many options. Mounting a pump at the front of the block would have meant extending the block due to the position of the timing chain and cam phaser. That�s not something you consider lightly, as the compact design is a small-block trademark. Instead, the fuel pump was mounted at the rear of the block, and there�s a hole in the lifter valley right where you�d find a distributor in a Gen 1 small-block. The billet-steel pump is bolted to the block with 8mm bolts and uses a roller follower just like a valve lifter. There�s even a set of dual springs with a beehive outer spring. In fact, the VVT cam phaser mechanism had to be tuned differently on the LT4 because spring pressure on the pump created an additional load on the valvetrain.

The in-tank electric pump pushes fuel to the cam-driven, direct-injection pump at around 70 psi. Fuel goes through a pressure damper, then into the pump where a plunger increases the pressure up to 2,900 psi. Fuel exits the pump and goes to the feed pipe, then to the crossover, and into each fuel rail. Compared to an LT1, which operates at 2,175 psi, the crossover pipe and supply pipe are a little larger in diameter to compensate for pressure pulsations. The injectors are the largest GM uses in DI applications and flow 14 percent more fuel than the injectors used in the LT1. The injectors use two O-rings to seal against cylinder pressure and feature a burly injector clip keeping it in place. �The mounting bosses are much beefier.� Unlike a diesel engine that can use multiple injections during the compression stroke, the spark-ignition direct-injection LT4 uses one injection on the intake stroke. The high fuel pressure helps make a fine, uniform spray that more evenly atomizes the fuel and is aimed at the bowl at the top of the piston, timed so that mixture is right at the spark plug.

Lee explained they�ve found that three lobes on the fuel pump cam seem to be optimal. With more than three lobes, there isn�t enough time to fill the pump. There�s also not a lot of room to add more lift, and if there were coil bind causing the plunger to bottom out, that force will transfer directly to the camshaft.

We asked Lee how much power was left in the factory fuel system. He told us that the limit is the DI pump, not the in-tank pump. Because the factory tune has to keep emissions components longevity in mind, they enrich the air/fuel ratio a bit, meaning there�s some �cushion� beyond the current 650hp rating, although there�s not a whole lot of room for a factory tune to eke out more power. However, he knows there are ways, adding �the aftermarket will do what the aftermarket will do.� By the way, the folks at Lingenfelter are already privy to the part number of the LT4�s Stanadyne direct-injection fuel pump.

When posed with the same question, Jordan Lee told us there�s still some power to be had: �I think there�s more in that supercharger.� John Rydzewski, who admitted that some early iterations of the LT4 were producing around 680 lb-ft of torque, was also free to admit where to find more power: �Open up the exhaust system and work with the camshaft.� If it weren�t for the stringent emissions requirements, �There�s a lot of room to move around on the camshaft.�

650 HP AND BEYOND

With the 707hp Challenger claiming the bragging right for the baddest supercharged V8 from the Big Three, Chevrolet fans might be looking for a hint at more to come to retake the throne. Just keep in mind that the 650hp LT4 is what happens when Chevrolet needed to replace a 505hp engine. Chevrolet had every right to call this car the ZR1, yet it didn�t. What do you think Tadge and his team are working on now?
Chevrolet LT4 Steve Kiefer Steve Kiefer�s not new to engines or the Corvette; he worked for Pontiac 30 years ago and built the LS7 that�s in his current car as a part of the Corvette Engine Build Experience.
STEVE KIEFER

Our visit at GM�s Powertrain facility in Pontiac, Michigan, included some face-to-face time with Steve Kiefer, vice president of global powertrain for General Motors. Keifer started working for GM in the very same building 30 years ago. Back then, he was focused on fuel efficiency and emissions on four-cylinder Pontiac engines. He�s now responsible for GM�s engine and transmission development around the world.
We asked Kiefer how GM plans to keep the small-block alive, and he reminded us that it has remained competitive because engineers keep reinventing it and adding new technology. The challenge, Keifer said, will be to keep pushing the envelope in efficiency. In low-volume niche applications, it will continue to have tremendous performance, while the high-volume engines will deliver efficiency. �There�s good life for the small-block,� Keifer said.

�By the time we�re done with this upgrade, this company will have the best powertrain development facilities on the planet, by far.� � Steve Kiefer

What Keifer was most excited about was the upcoming changes to GM�s Global Powertrain Engineering Headquarters in Pontiac, Michigan. The huge facility is already home to a vast array of engine dyno cells, tilt stands, and about 3,800 employees�and more are coming. In early 2013, GM announced plans to expand the facility to house the majority of their racing development. Almost every form of motorsports that GM competes�Cadillac in Pirelli World Challenge Series, C7.R, COPO, NASCAR, everything but IndyCar, really�will be under one roof.

Keifer would like the change to make the whole facility feel more like a race team. GM has long been rotating its race team engineers into the teams that develop the next generation of production engines, and moving the race development and production engine development together will allow more opportunities for engineers to cycle through the race program. While it won�t be a requirement to work on a race team, the program helps GM draw talented engineers to their programs. �I really want to see a lot more of our young engineers cycle through racing,� Keifer said. �Imagine getting hired right out of school and getting the opportunity to travel around the country with a race team.�

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/feature_stories/1412_the_2015_corvette_z06s_lt4_v8/#ixzz3BKwUuqlU

# ? Aug 24, 2014 19:47

Junkyard Poodle: May 6, 2011

Baram posted:

Man what happened to the pricing on the GT-s? Wasn't their huge thing that they were half the cost of their closest competition and started at <70k when the R35 was new? Talk about price bloat.

I think some of the price bloat has to do with the exchange rates. In '07, you could buy over 110 yen per dollar. By the end of '11 you could only get 75 for the same dollar. Towards the end of 2012 the Bank of Japan, (their Fed Reserve) brought the punch bowl back out, causingthe exchange rate to move towards '07ish exhange rates. I think they raised the prices as a necessity of exchange rates. I think they kept the price high because they were still moving well over a thousand unit a year in north america and who doesn't like more money?

# ? Aug 24, 2014 20:51

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Baram posted:

Man what happened to the pricing on the GT-s? Wasn't their huge thing that they were half the cost of their closest competition and started at <70k when the R35 was new? Talk about price bloat.

Like almost everything else about that car, it was a publicity stunt. Also I believe the prices went up because of things like higher rates that expected for stuff like warranty claims. The price of pretty much any car, but especially high HP cars, reflects a certain level of balance between engineering/production costs and warranty costs. You either overengineer components or else pay for the resulting warranty claims. The big power FWD GMs also reflect this - instead of engineering a new transmission to handle the power for low-volume niche halo trims, it's cheaper to use existing parts and just eat the costs of higher warranty claim rates.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 15:45

Guinness: Sep 15, 2004

New rumormill speculation: ND Miata will offer a fixed hardtop variant.

Autonews posted:

MX-5 Miata: The fourth generation of the venerable MX-5 Miata debuts at a media event next month before going on sale next summer for the 2016 model year. The redesigned MX-5 is expected to be close to the original Miata in terms of dimensions and the roadster's roughly 2,100-pound curb weight. Under the hood will be a Skyactiv 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine mated to a six-speed manual transmission.

Roughly a year after the soft-top goes on sale, Mazda will release a hardtop MX-5 that will have a unique, fastback-style silhouette, Automotive News has been told.

I'll believe it when I see it, but dear god I hope so.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 18:19

A MIRACLE: Sep 17, 2007; All right. It's Saturday night; I have no date, a two-liter bottle of Shasta and my all-Rush mix-tape... Let's rock.

Tall people need not apply. My friend can't even sit in my NA with the roof up

# ? Aug 25, 2014 18:26

eyebeem: Jul 18, 2013; by R. Guyovich

A MIRACLE posted:

Tall people need not apply. My friend can't even sit in my NA with the roof up

A dedicated hardtop coupe will have more headroom than a vert with the roof up.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 18:28

A MIRACLE: Sep 17, 2007; All right. It's Saturday night; I have no date, a two-liter bottle of Shasta and my all-Rush mix-tape... Let's rock.

That's true. Has there been much speculation about the dimensions? I know the weight is supposedly ~2350lbs

# ? Aug 25, 2014 18:31

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Guinness posted:

New rumormill speculation: ND Miata will offer a fixed hardtop variant.

I'll believe it when I see it, but dear god I hope so.

I don't see "fixed" next to hardtop there. What's to say it's not a folding convertible hardtop?

# ? Aug 25, 2014 20:21

Literally Lewis Hamilton: Feb 22, 2005

I can't imagine Mazda ditching the PRHT. Its pretty popular and gets buyers who don't want a soft top for whatever reason. Making it into a fixed hardtop just makes it a pain to put on/off, store it, etc.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 20:28

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Bovril Delight posted:

I can't imagine Mazda ditching the PRHT. Its pretty popular and gets buyers who don't want a soft top for whatever reason. Making it into a fixed hardtop just makes it a pain to put on/off, store it, etc.

I imagine if it's really happening they have figured out how to cheaply make both variants.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 20:43

InitialDave: Jun 14, 2007; I Want To Believe.

It seems like they'd be making a coupe, from the wording of it. Fastback implies fixed roof to me.

If people don't want the convertible in either flavour, you've got something hopefully lighter, more taut, and perhaps a direct competitor to the Toyobaru.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 21:06

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

InitialDave posted:

It seems like they'd be making a coupe, from the wording of it. Fastback implies fixed roof to me.

If people don't want the convertible in either flavour, you've got something hopefully lighter, more taut, and perhaps a direct competitor to the Toyobaru.

Since it was designed from the outset to be a convertible, putting a hard roof on it would likely make it heavier and provide little additional stiffness.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 23:12

Literally Lewis Hamilton: Feb 22, 2005

PeterWeller posted:

Since it was designed from the outset to be a convertible, putting a hard roof on it would likely make it heavier and provide little additional stiffness.

This. It's the worst of both worlds. Miatas have removable hardtop options but they've never been a big seller.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 23:21

obeyasia: Sep 21, 2004; Grimey Drawer

PeterWeller posted:

Since it was designed from the outset to be a convertible,

Do you have a source on that? I don't find it hard to believe that Mazda could have been planning ahead. Given that they already have a roadmap to release the coupe.

obeyasia fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Aug 25, 2014

# ? Aug 25, 2014 23:42

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

obeyasia posted:

Do you have a source on that? I don't find it hard to believe that Mazda could have been planning ahead. Given that they already have a roadmap to release the coupe.

My source is common sense and not believing the bullshit wishes-as-rumors published by car rags hunting for more page hits.

# ? Aug 25, 2014 23:58

Hog Obituary: Jun 11, 2006; start the day right

I want a fixed hardtop miata so bad. It means you don't have to deal with aftermarket rollbar BS for the track. And then we can avoid the whole argument about whether rollbars in street cars are dangerous without a helmet, blah blah blah.

Also if it truly gets fastback lines it will be glorious.

But then I'm one of those people that likes miatas and hates convertibles, so ... yeah.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 01:59

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

A fixed-top Miata is just a slow turd of an RX-7. There's no point in that. It is roadster and should stay that way. Why would you want to drive a 150hp "sports" coupe?

# ? Aug 26, 2014 03:28

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

obeyasia posted:

Do you have a source on that? I don't find it hard to believe that Mazda could have been planning ahead. Given that they already have a roadmap to release the coupe.

Yeah, and Mazda is working on a new rotary that's going to be released within the next 2 years and runs off of unicorn farts because the RENESIS was a smashing success. Especially the Series 1 examples.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 03:59

Laserface: Dec 24, 2004

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

A fixed-top Miata is just a slow turd of an RX-7. There's no point in that. It is roadster and should stay that way. Why would you want to drive a 150hp "sports" coupe?

Because the FR-S/86/BRZ is too fast for you?

# ? Aug 26, 2014 04:00

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

Apropos of nothing, I assumed the Miata would have a better power to weight ratio than the Toyobaru. Also, something about peak figures and area under the curve (I heard the FR-S feels gutless at low rpm).

a primate fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Aug 26, 2014

# ? Aug 26, 2014 04:11

oRenj9: Aug 3, 2004; Who loves oRenj soda?!?; College Slice

obeyasia posted:

Do you have a source on that? I don't find it hard to believe that Mazda could have been planning ahead. Given that they already have a roadmap to release the coupe.

The Corvette was designed to be a convertible that just happened to be offered as a coupe. It's not a stretch to think that Mazda would take the same approach.

Laserface posted:

Because the FR-S/86/BRZ is too fast for you?

# ? Aug 26, 2014 04:18

Literally Lewis Hamilton: Feb 22, 2005

oRenj9 posted:

The Corvette was designed to be a convertible that just happened to be offered as a coupe. It's not a stretch to think that Mazda would take the same approach.

Its a massive stretch because the Miata has been a purpose built convertible forever.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 04:19

oRenj9: Aug 3, 2004; Who loves oRenj soda?!?; College Slice

Bovril Delight posted:

Its a massive stretch because the Miata has been a purpose built convertible forever.

* It's not a stretch to think that Mazda would take the same approach if they made a fix roof hardtop. I'm not saying that I think they will, just that if they do, the coupe won't be an improvement over the 'vert in terms of stiffness.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 04:49

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

There could certainly be a fastback Miata or a new RX in the works. And there could certainly be an AWD 300HP Mazdaspeed 3 in the works as well. But it will take a lot more than some article quoting "sources" or some artist's rendering to convince me that tiny little Mazda has all these awesome niche products on the way.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 06:31

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

I have a source close to mazda, the next RX is going to be the awd mazdaspeed 3, and will be manual only.

With a rotary....wait for it...diesel.

It'll also share the platform with the miata.

It will also come as a true wagon as well as the 5 door.

But the rotary will only be a 660cc producing 90hp and 110ft/lbs, both it and the miata will be 3200lbs, the awd system will be in hybrid form with a 10hp electric motor turning the rear wheels, and the wagon will have a wicked raked roofline meaning it will have less cargo space than the 5 door, with the added bonus of human adults being unable to sit upright in the rear seat. Being a rotary, even with the small displacement and hybrid system it will still only get 30mpg combined.

It will also only come in taupe, beige, desert tan, or for an extra $1,100, brown sugar metallic.

edit: here's a leaked picture of the concept.

Those are the optional 21 inch wheels, the standard model comes with 19 inch wheels.

Powershift fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Aug 26, 2014

# ? Aug 26, 2014 07:11

Coredump: Dec 1, 2002

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

A fixed-top Miata is just a slow turd of an RX-7. There's no point in that. It is roadster and should stay that way. Why would you want to drive a 150hp "sports" coupe?

Why would you want to drive a 150 hp "sports" convertible? There are people out there who liked the appeal of a one of the best handling, reliable cars, they just don't care for the drop top.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 13:21

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

Using a rotary in a hybrid is an awesome idea, since they are quite efficient if kept at a constant rpm (or so I heard). The transmission and electric motor could do most of the velocity-change work, keeping the rotary humming along. A diesel wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

Here's an actually decent source for Mazda's new hybrid plans.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 17:47

ilkhan: Oct 7, 2004; I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Powershift posted:

I have a source close to mazda, the next RX is going to be the awd mazdaspeed 3, and will be manual only.

...

Those are the optional 21 inch wheels, the standard model comes with 19 inch wheels.

I can't remember the name of it, but I'm 90% sure that image is a chevy concept (production?) car from a decade ago.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 18:05

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Powershift posted:

I have a source close to mazda, the next RX is going to be the awd mazdaspeed 3, and will be manual only.

With a rotary....wait for it...diesel.

It'll also share the platform with the miata.

It will also come as a true wagon as well as the 5 door.

But the rotary will only be a 660cc producing 90hp and 110ft/lbs, both it and the miata will be 3200lbs, the awd system will be in hybrid form with a 10hp electric motor turning the rear wheels, and the wagon will have a wicked raked roofline meaning it will have less cargo space than the 5 door, with the added bonus of human adults being unable to sit upright in the rear seat. Being a rotary, even with the small displacement and hybrid system it will still only get 30mpg combined.

It will also only come in taupe, beige, desert tan, or for an extra $1,100, brown sugar metallic.

edit: here's a leaked picture of the concept.

Those are the optional 21 inch wheels, the standard model comes with 19 inch wheels.

If you have close sores, you might want to to get them checked out.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 18:26

Literally Lewis Hamilton: Feb 22, 2005

Brown sugar metallic sounds an awesome color.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 18:58

Bouillon Rube: Aug 6, 2009

ilkhan posted:

I can't remember the name of it, but I'm 90% sure that image is a chevy concept (production?) car from a decade ago.

Looks like the SS concept from 2003

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_SS_(concept_car)

# ? Aug 26, 2014 19:12

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

Bovril Delight posted:

Brown sugar metallic sounds an awesome color.

Sounds... dangerous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exl0oSfTSoY

# ? Aug 26, 2014 19:39

Militant Lesbian: Oct 3, 2002

Hmmm, we may be getting an AWD Focus RS here in the states after all:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/2016-ford-focus-rs-first-details-exclusive-insider-info

350hp and torque vectoring AWD? :monocle:

# ? Aug 26, 2014 22:19

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Any word on potential price points? I would seriously consider that for my next car instead of my current plan for an entry-mid level luxobarge.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 22:28

Twerk from Home: Jan 17, 2009; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

KillHour posted:

Any word on potential price points? I would seriously consider that for my next car instead of my current plan for an entry level luxobarge.

The Focus ST already costs more than a V6 Premium Mustang, I'd expect it to cost about the same as a Mustang GT Premium honestly.

# ? Aug 26, 2014 22:28

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

bet it's the Focus SVT and not the RS here in the States

that'd be the smart move, anyway

# ? Aug 26, 2014 22:30

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

HotCanadianChick posted:

Hmmm, we may be getting an AWD Focus RS here in the states after all:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/2016-ford-focus-rs-first-details-exclusive-insider-info

350hp and torque vectoring AWD?

I'll believe it when I see it, but I'd definitely be interested.