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Professor Shark posted:I just see them as pathetic trolls that haven't been able to get over the Departure and are upset that others have (even the ones who haven't?), angry that part of living is that life goes on and people forget. I am pretty sure that the entire purpose is to become martyrs. They believe the departure is the rapture and they are instigating people into murdering them so that maybe they have a shot at heaven.
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Sep 11, 2014 13:33
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It's also the difference between remembering the Departure as a past event/tragedy and as something that is still tangibly affecting the world. A memorial service makes the departure a THING THAT HAPPENED and not a THING THAT IS. The GR don't ever want people to put the Departure in the past. They think it's something that can't be reconciled, filed away, and moved past.
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Sep 11, 2014 14:08
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Sickening posted:I am pretty sure that the entire purpose is to become martyrs. They believe the departure is the rapture and they are instigating people into murdering them so that maybe they have a shot at heaven. That's my take on it as well. They remind me of an old Christian sect that believed the highest calling was to be killed for their faith. So they went around beating people up, pissing them off and so on in an effort to get killed. Obviously, they succeeded. 
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Sep 11, 2014 14:13
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Professor Shark posted:So a Slow Suicide Cult? Sickening posted:I am pretty sure that the entire purpose is to become martyrs. They believe the departure is the rapture and they are instigating people into murdering them so that maybe they have a shot at heaven.
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Sep 11, 2014 16:01
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Ersatz posted:Pretty much. I am pretty sure the self loathing is their despair for not making the first cut.
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Sep 11, 2014 16:17
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Solkanar512 posted:That's my take on it as well. They remind me of an old Christian sect that believed the highest calling was to be killed for their faith. So they went around beating people up, pissing them off and so on in an effort to get killed. Right before the departure, the woman Kevin is having sex with when she departs asks him if he's a good person and his answer is "No." He's also pretty blunt with anyone who asks him that he had an affair before the departure. When Patti eggs Kevin on right before she kills herself, I think she's tipping her hand as to the motivations of the GR. The GR pretty clearly believes they were left behind because they were unworthy and it does look like they want people to acknowledge this about themselves or the GR is willing to die trying.
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Sep 11, 2014 16:20
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tadashi posted:Right before the departure, the woman Kevin is having sex with when she departs asks him if he's a good person and his answer is "No." He's also pretty blunt with anyone who asks him that he had an affair before the departure. When Patti eggs Kevin on right before she kills herself, I think she's tipping her hand as to the motivations of the GR. Which puts them in opposition to Rev. Dr. Who, who has spend time pointing out that the people that departed weren't any different than the leftovers.
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Sep 11, 2014 16:41
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njbeachbum posted:Which puts them in opposition to Rev. Dr. Who, who has spend time pointing out that the people that departed weren't any different than the leftovers. I'll be very curious to see where things are when the next season opens. Will Rev. Matt be trying to arrange a memorial for the GR members who died in the house fires?
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Sep 11, 2014 17:12
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The disgust on Hotcops' face when all the townspeople were trying to murder the GR was great. He spent the entire season trying to convince people not to give them what they want and here we are.
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Sep 11, 2014 17:29
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I didn't get to post in the thread because I was a few weeks behind in watching, but I loved this show and really loved episodes 9 and 10. I don't get all the hate, especially when people are complaining about unlikeable characters. Also, Lost is my favorite show of all time.
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Sep 11, 2014 17:45
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tadashi posted:I'll be very curious to see where things are when the next season opens. Will Rev. Matt be trying to arrange a memorial for the GR members who died in the house fires? 100% he will. He was responsible for the Gladys posters after she died. Borrowed Ladder posted:I didn't get to post in the thread because I was a few weeks behind in watching, but I loved this show and really loved episodes 9 and 10. I don't get all the hate, especially when people are complaining about unlikeable characters. Kevin is really interesting to me. He seems like he's following the whole Hero archetype of refusing the call before getting on board and all that, only he's having a much more realistic reaction to his situation than other fictional characters. Nothing makes sense so he just goes "What the gently caress?" and starts drinking. Max fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 17:57
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Borrowed Ladder posted:I didn't get to post in the thread because I was a few weeks behind in watching, but I loved this show and really loved episodes 9 and 10. I don't get all the hate, especially when people are complaining about unlikeable characters. Are people saying they don't like the characters as in "They don't like what they do and don't like them as people" or more like "I don't like how the characters are written". I never got why you are supposed to like "difficult" characters. They are complex characters that don't make you happy or they don't do what you would have done in this totally insane and reality shattering situation, of which you can never prepare yourself for. More so if he is literally insane. Its really hard to like most people, but at least people on this show have a really good reason why they are sad and upset and acting weird. Some characters you are just supposed to hate, or not like, that is part of the story and emotional direction the teller wants you to go on. I think the GR are supposed to anger you as much as they anger the people in the show when they won't just say something or stop being weird and strange characters that do annoying things. That kind of stuff is interesting to me, because we usually never get to sit in the poo poo with characters on TV shows, we only get to fly through the sky on their magic carpet as they do everything right and good and ultimately it all works out because nothing bad ever happens unless it is a season finale and it will probably be okay next season.
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Sep 11, 2014 19:51
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I would love if the last shot of the season is Nora coming hone, and her husband (and maybe kids?) are there, waiting for her, completely confused. You kinda sorta got your wish.
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Sep 11, 2014 21:02
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onefish posted:I think one of the main reasons--and no one for whom this applies will ever admit this--that so many tv reviewers and watchers couldn't get on board is because no one in the show gets to be a "badass." Almost every other prestige drama I can think of has some character most of the viewers would kind of like to imagine themselves being (at least in part, no matter how "flawed"). And that character acts as a driving narrative force, taking the viewer along for the ride. But who the hell would want to be Kevin Garvey (slow, confused, *emasculated*), the show's nod to the trope? What about Dog Sniper?
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Sep 11, 2014 21:14
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Dantu posted:What about Dog Sniper? I actually thought about mentioning him, then thought it might be a spoiler. But yeah: by the end of the season, Dogshooter definitely comes across to me as criminally insane, not badass. He's willing to kill, but not because he's really thought it through or has a plan--because of Kevin's (KEVIN'S??) "strong leadership" (in his disassociated state)
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Sep 11, 2014 23:15
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Was not very thrilled with the season finale. Knew there would be tons of unanswered questions
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Sep 12, 2014 02:40
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bryn987 posted:Was not very thrilled with the season finale. Knew there would be tons of unanswered questions
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Sep 12, 2014 02:59
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AxeManiac posted:Are people saying they don't like the characters as in "They don't like what they do and don't like them as people" or more like "I don't like how the characters are written". I never got why you are supposed to like "difficult" characters. They are complex characters that don't make you happy or they don't do what you would have done in this totally insane and reality shattering situation, of which you can never prepare yourself for. More so if he is literally insane. Its really hard to like most people, but at least people on this show have a really good reason why they are sad and upset and acting weird. For me it wasn't so much that the characters were complex so much as for the first half of the season most of them were cyphers. For the first half of the season most of the characters ran around bouncing off of each other with very little insight as to their motivation for acting the way they did. Unless you want to point to The Big Thing That Happened and say that is and answer to all questions concerning motivation... well then isn't that just a bit too convenient. It's the big weird terrifying thing that allowed the writers to skate past character development for most of the season. Episode 1: Wow everyone in this show is really irritated, anxious, on edge and seems to be acting out on everybody else. Some weird poo poo happens to some of them. Episode 2: Everybody is still a shithead. New weird poo poo happens but not it's terribly interesting since who really cares if these shitheads are going insane? Episode 3: HOLY poo poo actual character development! Depth even! Maybe this might get good! Episode 4: Wherein we prove that last week was the anomaly. etc, etc... Viewing the the season I might say that this is better than average TV. That's based on the strength of 4 amazing episodes tipping the scales against the remaining 6 tedious ones. Though because of those six, I really doubt I will ever go back and rewatch this season. For the record: I never got into Lost (seems to be a thing everyone harps on) and the only mystery I really contemplate is how in the world all these GR members manage to keep all their teeth. If they felt their mission in life is to piss off the world in order to point to a world-changing event, one would really expect more empty gums in their ranks.
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Sep 12, 2014 03:09
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Professor Shark posted:I just see them as pathetic trolls that haven't been able to get over the Departure and are upset that others have (even the ones who haven't?), angry that part of living is that life goes on and people forget.
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Sep 12, 2014 03:21
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Kevin and the priest rolling back in to town and everything that happened after that was awesome. I guess I can understand people hating on the show, but drat. For me that was the best ending of any show this season. I guess I don't really care about the why of it all so maybe that makes a difference? I'm not religious at all, I'm a science nerd so I don't really care what happened unless it is explained. Aliens would be the most likely awnser but it doesn't matter really. People disappeared. It sucked. WTF. Wayne was awesome.
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Sep 12, 2014 04:04
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Someone actually tabbed out the main theme (Vladimir's Blues) for guitar. That made my day, and I know what I will be doing for the next couple of days.  Also the finale was excellent, I am stoked for a second season even if there is no more source material. Fragmented posted:Kevin and the priest rolling back in to town and everything that happened after that was awesome. I guess I can understand people hating on the show, but drat. For me that was the best ending of any show this season. I guess I don't really care about the why of it all so maybe that makes a difference? I'm not religious at all, I'm a science nerd so I don't really care what happened unless it is explained. I agree, it was this crazy release for everything the characters had bottled up. Also, I am fine with this show not explaining things because whatever explanation they came up with would probably be awful and end up ruining any actual power an inexplicable event has. I was fine going into this show knowing that mystery would not solved. unlawfulsoup fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 06:16
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AxeManiac posted:Are people saying they don't like the characters as in "They don't like what they do and don't like them as people" or more like "I don't like how the characters are written". I never got why you are supposed to like "difficult" characters. They are complex characters that don't make you happy or they don't do what you would have done in this totally insane and reality shattering situation, of which you can never prepare yourself for. More so if he is literally insane. Its really hard to like most people, but at least people on this show have a really good reason why they are sad and upset and acting weird. Most of this season was "lovely things happening to lovely people". I don't have to like the characters of Leftovers, but I do have to relate to them if the show producers want me to get invested in them. I get that the Garvey family is broken, but even assholes have a good side. Kevin and Jill, especially, seemed so misanthropic I couldn't even relate them. Not just one or two characters, it was a whole town of assholes being assholes to one another. That's why Nora was a breath of fresh. She can be a poo poo too, but she has other dimensions as well. The writers seemed to confuse "mysterious" and "inscrutable" with interesting. I'm glad Kevin became something more than his one note, gruff and moody by the end of the season. Compare that to GR who are so completely lovely that you love hating them and be invested to what happens to them. As a poster said previously, I too want to punch them in the teeth, but I can't wait to see what they do next.
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Sep 12, 2014 06:48
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Is there a consensus for the smoking, I always thought it was just because gently caress it, life's not worth living this is a clear indicator we're all dying, but my brother took is as a form of flagellation, a non-violent method of self punishment as a way of atonement for not being worthy.
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Sep 12, 2014 07:15
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I wonder if the GR broke into the Mapleton Motel and put a realdoll of Kevin's businesswoman on the bed with her legs spread open.
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Sep 12, 2014 07:38
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Any idea if the author of the book will be on board for season 2? If so, that's pretty much like having a second novel, with differences of course.
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Sep 12, 2014 11:18
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In regards to learning about what actually happened I look at it like the background story of Wolverine. For years it was so much fun speculating and wondering about what kind of life he must have lead and what made him the man he was. Then we found out. And it was an okay story I guess. But now we all know. And......Well. Now we know. Mystery gone.
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Sep 12, 2014 12:48
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Exactly... I mean what would even be a compelling explanation for the disappearance?
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Sep 12, 2014 13:19
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I think of finding out why the disappearance happened along the same lines as finding out where Kazan went at the end of the movie Cube. Thanks, Cube 2: Hypercube! (and Cube Zero)  I think I'd be ok with learning more about the disappearance, but not the whole thing.
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Sep 12, 2014 13:21
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Automatic Slim posted:Most of this season was "lovely things happening to lovely people". I don't have to like the characters of Leftovers, but I do have to relate to them if the show producers want me to get invested in them. I get that the Garvey family is broken, but even assholes have a good side. Kevin and Jill, especially, seemed so misanthropic I couldn't even relate them. Not just one or two characters, it was a whole town of assholes being assholes to one another. That's why Nora was a breath of fresh. She can be a poo poo too, but she has other dimensions as well. The writers seemed to confuse "mysterious" and "inscrutable" with interesting. I'm glad Kevin became something more than his one note, gruff and moody by the end of the season. You managed to say that a lot better than I did. I think the huge GR presence in town is pretty much Garvey's fault. He let it flourish because the person who was once his wife was a member he held on to the hope that he could win her back. Some poster's here have pointed to the change in tone of the ATFEC call was an indication that Garvey was going crazy. I think it was played more or less on the level and was meant to be an indication of how the larger world works in the story. That federal agents often assist local law enforcement because most police chiefs are not nearly as conflicted about cult activity in their jurisdiction as Kevin is.
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Sep 12, 2014 17:54
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I think he it was more that he was trying to handle it above board and within the local government, time and time again, he was the only one that actually took them seriously as a threat. His hands were tied and he got little support except when skulls needed cracking.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:17
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See, I don't think he saw the GR as a threat. He saw Patti as the threat. He saw most of the rank and file members as delusional and kinda sad. Look how he interacted with various members. Most of his animosity was reserved for Patti. He couldn't stand how much influence she exerted over his wife. I got the feeling he felt he could solve some problems both local and personal by removing Patti from the equation... which is probably why his Tyler Durden persona abducted her.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:45
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I really enjoyed this season, but if they ever try to make this show about explaining the disappearance I'd probably give up on it. I appreciate this show much more as a lovely people learning how to be less lovely type of character centered story than whatever sci fi or metaphysical explanation they could come up for the disappearance.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:59
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I don't really care why the departure happened. I am more interested in how it impacted society at large. We see how it hosed up a small town, what did it do across the globe? Did the GR pull the dummy stunt in other places too? What happened in other places?
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Sep 12, 2014 19:47
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Why do some people think Nora was gonna join the GR?
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Sep 12, 2014 21:38
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Why do some people still think the show is going to address the mystery of the departure despite explicit evidence to the contrary?
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Sep 12, 2014 21:40
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thathonkey posted:Why do some people still think the show is going to address the mystery of the departure despite explicit evidence to the contrary? I have no idea if they are or not but, honest question, what explicit evidence is there?
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Sep 12, 2014 21:43
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Ended up enjoying this season as a whole, but it kind of feels like everything has been tied up and we don't have any forward motion moving into season 2. That might not be a bad thing ... it could be their way of transitioning coldly from the book to original content. * The local GR is effectively disbanded and won't be coming back to Mapelton. That ends the central (physical) conflict of season 1 as well as a big part of Matt and Jill's arcs (separately) * The murders of the GR members probably don't matter anymore * Tom and Laurie presumably skipped town (we know they're together, so it wouldn't make sense for Tom to ditch the baby at his Dad's if he was just going to ... come back in a few hours?) which removes half of the Garveys from the central plot, and removes large chunks of the conflics from Kevin and (again) Jill's arcs * Wayne is dead and beyond his daughter I don't think his story will affect anything else moving forward Which leaves us with ... is Kevin crazy (yes) and is everyone going to keep having needlessly cryptic dialog (yes). I just hope whatever drama arises next season it doesn't feel totally contrived and carries the same weight as the stuff this season had. As long as we get more of the twins and the mayor next year I'll be happy.
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Sep 12, 2014 21:44
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Junkenstein posted:I have no idea if they are or not but, honest question, what explicit evidence is there? From 2004-2010 someone lied over and over and over to us but this time it will be different. e: woops double post.
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Sep 12, 2014 21:45
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Junkenstein posted:I have no idea if they are or not but, honest question, what explicit evidence is there? The creators of the show saying so? It not being touched on for the entire first season? Do you need more reasons... those seem pretty explicit.
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Sep 12, 2014 22:02
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njbeachbum posted:I don't really care why the departure happened. I am more interested in how it impacted society at large. We see how it hosed up a small town, what did it do across the globe? Did the GR pull the dummy stunt in other places too? What happened in other places? This. It would be nice to see more than like 20 seconds of news on TV over the whole season. I don't think Kevin is a bad person, and actually he's my favorite character on the show. Same with Jill, but maybe its because she is soooo so pretty, I mean seriously those eyes could win or start wars. Kevin reminds me of Jimmy Mcnulty for some reason. And anyone who thinks Jill is wierd is over 40 or has never been with many girls. She is exactly like an ex of mine. Rich girl that had a bad break up was all it took for her. I think holding hands in a circle when someone poofed and her mom bailing months later might just make a Jill.
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Sep 13, 2014 02:06
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