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Autonomous Monster posted:So wait, if the barn was attached to an orphanage, where was the orphanage when the War Doctor turned up? Let's assume the orphanage and anything surrounding the barn was wiped out in the many years that followed, somehow turning it into a wasteland with the barn still standing
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Sep 13, 2014 20:28
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Noxville posted:There was no way to not include it, literally the entire point of the episode was Moffat writing an origin story for The Doctor. I really like it when an episode is subtle about the Doctor's past - like when we learn the Doctor stole the Tardis, and then thirty years later we learn the Tardis unlocked itself. Then 2 years later we learn that Clara magicked herself throughout every moment in history to prod the doctor into picking that Tardis. gently caress that noise. The Doctor being scared of the dark and crying himself to sleep at night? I am so down with that. Sleeping in a barn in bumfuck-nowhere Gallifrey being soothed by Clara? Not a fan.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:28
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Autonomous Monster posted:So wait, if the barn was attached to an orphanage, where was the orphanage when the War Doctor turned up? Fell apart/destroyed/dismantled long ago by whatever turned the rest of that area of Gallifrey into desert, probably.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:28
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Noxville posted:There was no way to not include it, literally the entire point of the episode was Moffat writing an origin story for The Doctor. It's not an origin story. It's not even close to an origin story. It's a singular, potentially-formative event that is only the definite "origin" of a SINGLE LINE OF DIALOGUE in An Unearthly Child/100,000 BC.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:28
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But how did they fly to Gallifrey? How was it in Clara's timeline? Is EVERYTHING in Clara's timeline now because of the fracturing before?
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Sep 13, 2014 20:30
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PoshAlligator posted:So who wrote "listen" on the chalkboard? The hiding thing. I don't care what anyone says, there was definitely a Thing. Gonna call him Wally.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:31
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Vincent K. McMahon posted:But how did they fly to Gallifrey? Shhh, dont ask silly questions.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:31
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Well, they edited out the most offensively stupid part at least. But, seriously, gently caress a Doctor origin story.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:31
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PriorMarcus posted:Well, they edited out the most offensively stupid part at least. Please tell.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:32
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Vincent K. McMahon posted:But how did they fly to Gallifrey? They went to Gallifrey because the safeguards were off and because Clara's timeline is fractured and weird due to the stuff on Trenzalore. It was implicit, but like many of Moffat's plot elements, not explicit. PriorMarcus posted:Well, they edited out the most offensively stupid part at least. I'd rather have this than the loving Other. ... so what did they edit out?
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Sep 13, 2014 20:33
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Oh, but the young Doctor thing was dumb. Don't want anyone thinking I liked that bit. Leave Time Lord childhoods alone, we don't want to hear it. Just let them be mysterious and unknown. e: also yeah, I'd like to know what this edited thing was too please
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Sep 13, 2014 20:33
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McDragon posted:The hiding thing. I don't care what anyone says, there was definitely a Thing. Gonna call him Wally. Yeah, they were still pretty ambiguous about whether there was a "thing" at all or not.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:33
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Chipping in after my posts of hatred last week concerning Capaldi and 'his' Doctor. This episode (apart from the 50th anniversary episode) has to be the best Doctor Who episode I have seen since NuWho. This was the Doctor I have been yearning for. This was the story I was hoping to see him in. This episode was loving amazing and I loved every minute of it. I take it back what I said previously, on the proviso that tonight's episode quality continues. I cannot believe I had to endure 3 episodes of total poo poo before I saw the glittery gold hidden in the clay.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:33
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If the Doctor was raised in an orphanage, where does the House of Lungbarrow fit in? 
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Sep 13, 2014 20:34
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PoshAlligator posted:So who wrote "listen" on the chalkboard? I guess we have to assume stuff like that (and the thing under the bedspread) were deliberate misdirections, and that the Doctor really did write it subconsciously while absorbed in his own speculations, and that it was a kid under the bedspread. I don't know, while I enjoyed this episode and appreciate the idea that the "monster" turned out to just be the very "human" fear of darkness and being alone, it feels like it didn't quite work in the end. While I think it was unnecessary to pop back to the Doctor's own childhood, it was still a sweet moment, and there was no aspect of the episode I'd call bad at all.... it just that the whole thing ended up feeling ultimately unsatisfying to me.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:34
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HD DAD posted:Yeah, they were still pretty ambiguous about whether there was a "thing" at all or not. I think we need a poll on whether there's a thing. I believe in the thing.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:35
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McDragon posted:Oh, but the young Doctor thing was dumb. Don't want anyone thinking I liked that bit. Leave Time Lord childhoods alone, we don't want to hear it. Just let them be mysterious and unknown. We were all young, once. Besides, any sense of "Time Lord mystery" is long since dead and buried. I'm beginning to question the point of maintaining the pretense, honestly; Shrodinger's cat has been out of the bag since The Deadly Assassin. Trying to artificially restore that mystery gave us sodding Lungbarrow. Autonomous Monster posted:If the Doctor was raised in an orphanage, where does the House of Lungbarrow fit in? Who said it was an orphanage? [/virginnewadventures]
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Sep 13, 2014 20:35
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Jerusalem posted:
I disagree. Kids around the UK are not going to be sleeping tonight, and plenty of adults are going to probably second guess themselves just for a moment and then feel really silly about it. I think it was a total success and easily ranks up there with Blink among Moffats best.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:36
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Vincent K. McMahon posted:But how did they fly to Gallifrey? Unless im very much mistaken, everything in Claras timeline is everything to do with Doctor and everything he has done in his timeline.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:37
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Clara was asked to think about "the time she had that nightmare", but ended up going back to the time Pink had it instead because she was thinking about him. I guess at the end she did the same thing only with the Doctor. I think I'm ok with the childhood scene, it further establishes The Doctor as an outcast rather than some space messiah.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:39
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Also Clara was just telepathically communicating with the TARDIS. I have no issues believing the TARDIS would choose to go there based on the information Clara gave it.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:40
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Re: the "orphanage". Unless I missed a specific bit of dialogue, everything was left vague enough that it could have been anything really. Maybe those were his parents (or an Aunt and Uncle) and "the other boys" were siblings (or cousins). Maybe he was staying at some kind of camp. Maybe it was a Gallifreyan boarding school. Maybe it WAS an orphanage: the obvious parallels are there between him and young Rupert's situation. The trouble is, jumping back to any point in the Doctor's life BEFORE An Unearthly Child means you do one of two things: 1. You specifically define his past, which upsets viewers because it will inevitably not be what they imagined or like to think about the Doctor. 2. You go as hazy and undefined as possible to avoid 1, which raises the question of why bothering to do it at all. It's also unnecessary since, as already mentioned, what makes the Doctor "the Doctor" has already been seen from the events of An Unearthly Child on. So it really adds nothing to the character, and is distracting and draws away the viewer's attention/discussion of everything else that happened in the episode. Irony Be My Shield posted:Clara was asked to think about "the time she had that nightmare", but ended up going back to the time Pink had it instead because she was thinking about him. I guess at the end she did the same thing only with the Doctor. PoshAlligator posted:Also Clara was just telepathically communicating with the TARDIS. I have no issues believing the TARDIS would choose to go there based on the information Clara gave it. Yeah that's how I saw it too - she was telepathically hooked up to the TARDIS and it was getting conflicting messages of,"That time I had the dream" and "The Doctor!" - same thing was already established earlier in the episode when she thought of Danny and got jumped back to the first time he had the dream instead. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Sep 13, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 20:42
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I think kids are gonna sleep just fine, since Clara straight-up said it was nothing. The last 5-10 minutes ruined what was otherwise a decent if jumbled episode.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:45
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DoctorWhat posted:Who said it was an orphanage? [/virginnewadventures] Jerusalem posted:Re: the "orphanage". Unless I missed a specific bit of dialogue, everything was left vague enough that it could have been anything really. Maybe those were his parents (or an Aunt and Uncle) and "the other boys" were siblings (or cousins). Maybe he was staying at some kind of camp. Maybe it was a Gallifreyan boarding school. Maybe it WAS an orphanage: the obvious parallels are there between him and young Rupert's situation. I could have sworn blind they said something explicit. 
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Sep 13, 2014 20:51
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So if we accept that "Wally" under the bedsheet really was just a kid (who must have sat in his bedroom afterwards REALLY confused by the party going on at Rupert's) then is this the first episode of the revival to NOT feature an alien/monster/creature?
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Sep 13, 2014 20:55
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I wasn't really sure what I was expecting and now I'm not really sure what to think. I think I might need to rewatch this one to decide. However, I would've liked the scene on Gallifrey better if it had ended with David Bradley in character as One poking his head over the edge of duvet to watch the TARDIS dematerialise.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:57
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Jerusalem posted:So if we accept that "Wally" under the bedsheet really was just a kid (who must have sat in his bedroom afterwards REALLY confused by the party going on at Rupert's) then is this the first episode of the revival to NOT feature an alien/monster/creature? Yes, it is. Also, I done goofed and they did leave in the bit I really disliked - iPlayer just skipped for me. And it's Clara leaving the little toy soldier with no gun for the young Doctor. In the script it's described as her "leaving him a gift, a soldier without a gun guarding all the stars" and is so implicitly meant to be an origin story like it was to Danny.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:59
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When they mentioned time lords and we were supposed to realise it was the Doctor in the barn, I initially thought it meant Danny was a time lord and they were going to explain why all his poo poo is so convoluted.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:01
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I was really impressed by that. It was beautiful in parts, even.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:03
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I do quite like the implication that The Doctor is always scared, but trying to use that to his advantage.PriorMarcus posted:Yes, it is.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:16
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 what WhAT WHAT!?
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Sep 13, 2014 21:20
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Should I know what / who that is? Reminds me of Dash Rendar for some reason..
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Sep 13, 2014 21:22
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ABSLOM DAAK, DALEK KILLER YOU MOTHERFUCKERS HAD BETTER KNOW WHO ABSLOM DAAK IS
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Sep 13, 2014 21:23
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I did not until now. He sounds glorious.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:24
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anastazius posted:I did not until now. He sounds glorious. HE'S GONNA BLOW EVERY LAST STINKING DALEK OUT OF THE SKY [yes, that was a Daak reference in Bad Wolf]
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Sep 13, 2014 21:25
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No no, you were right the first time, that's Dash Rendar.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:25
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DoctorWhat posted:ABSLOM DAAK, DALEK KILLER YES! 
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Sep 13, 2014 21:28
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Crusader posted:YES! I don't particularly care about this character I've never heard of, but I do like that they seem to be increasingly accepting the other media into the TV show. It's pretty neat.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:32
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I'm probably thinking too much into this, but does anyone think there's any chance that the thing under Danny/Rupert's blanket and whatever was knocking on Orson Pink's door could tie in to the seasonal arc? If they end up being real. Like when Eleven messed around in his timeline with the fez and the mop. But maybe with Missy instead? I think I'm just wanting to believe it was something supernatural and unknown and exciting. If it was just a kid under a blanket then he is insanely good at being creepy I'll give him that.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:45
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DoctorWhat posted:I'm gonna need some time to think this over. Definitely going to have to watch this again, probably after some sleep. Right now the only thing I can think is "man, this is a horrible time to be airing a story which has creepy happenings in a children's home", and that's probably colouring how I'm thinking of everyone else. I reckon this is going to be a big old Marmite episode; either you buy into the whole package and love it, or it leaves you completely cold and you hate it.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:59
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