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100YrsofAttitude posted:In regards to my "non cases", there's a reason why I haven't voted. I've been trying to air out my thoughts and just write down my perception of things. Maybe I should have more conviction? But as everyone readily sees most of my thoughts are pretty empty, at least they're nothing I would be able to vote on with confidence, especially cause when playing mafia my number 1 rule is that I'm always wrong. See, this is a situation where I understand what you're saying and I can follow the logic behind it. I just don't really agree with it. The main issue comes from your thoughts not really having much meaning to them, though at least you can admit as much yourself; I guess this just comes down to a difference in our ways of thinking. Like, yeah, I can completely understand thinking out loud to try and reach a meaningful conclusion but when your thoughts are, by your own admission, inherently meaningless that just seems more like wanting to say something, more than having something to say.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:10
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And, well, just wanting to say something, anything, regardless of content or use is just empty proselytising and that doesn't actually help anyone. Looks nice if you want to appear to be helping but that's all it does.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:11
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Harold Krell posted:All you're doing is just tunneling on me for whatever reason, and quite frankly, all of this ignorance and attacks on my personal character is pissing me off. Please, remember to show some respect in the future before you consider posting again, understand? Dude, it's mafia. Get over it. Questioning people's character is the point of the game. Maybe quit blustering about being besmirched and play some mafia. You say that the two vig kills are solid pieces of evidence. How about you share your analysis of that evidence?
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Sep 13, 2014 21:20
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Rarity posted:Dude, it's mafia. Get over it. Questioning people's character is the point of the game. Maybe quit blustering about being besmirched and play some mafia. You say that the two vig kills are solid pieces of evidence. How about you share your analysis of that evidence? You may be allowed to question other people, but that doesn't mean you're allowed to disrespect them. Either way, if you would have just read what I just wrote, you would have been able to gather that that the kills themselves are evidence of the likelihood of scum. Here is an analogy to simplify things: When murders occur in the real world, court cases are required to find the guilty party. However, since the killers have already been revealed to us, the only choice we need to make is to see which guilty party gets hanged tonight. It's essentially the Prisoner's Dilemma brought down to a smaller scale.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:37
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I think that's an overly simplistic way of looking at things. Town shoots town all the drat time when they have vigs.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:42
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Rarity posted:I think that's an overly simplistic way of looking at things. Town shoots town all the drat time when they have vigs. You must be playing with some disgustingly self-destructive townies because that's a downright shameful display of mafia sportsmanship.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:49
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Ok, so I looked a little closer at the candy levels and I had a thought. There are three players who have lost candy, merk and uranus who gained candy and Somber who claims to have given away candy. Dragonatrix gave away 2 candy (unclaimed) Big Nothing gave away 1 candy (but he's dead now so that's irrelevant) ApostateCourier gave 2 candy (1 to Punt, 1 to Ernie) First things first, Dragonatrix you should claim who you gave your candy to. If that person ends up flipping scum then that confirms you as town. Now AC says she gave candy to Punt and Ernie, which means in theory that they should each have given away 1 piece of candy as well. However, there's this: uranus posted:yeah it told me i ate them all as soon as i got them, i just didnt see my pm till this morning If AC had gifted Ernie a piece of candy then that would have taken him up to 4. He would have eaten them automatically and he wouldn't have had a chance to give one away so he could drop back down to 3. In other words, AC is lying. ##vote ApostateCourier merk, did you get the same PM as uranus?
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Sep 13, 2014 22:08
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Rarity posted:Ok, so I looked a little closer at the candy levels and I had a thought. There are three players who have lost candy, merk and uranus who gained candy and Somber who claims to have given away candy. I've already said I gave candy to uranus and merk btw.
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Sep 13, 2014 22:17
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I gave 1 piece to Byers basically entirely at random. Dunno where the other one went, since I did just send out one. Never received a dayvig PM so that possibility isn't on the table, and I doubt anyone would send 'em to me anyway.
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Sep 13, 2014 22:17
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byers and/or somb give candy to ernie.
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Sep 13, 2014 22:20
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Ernie. posted:merk i'll cut you a deal Hang on I missed this post from before AC gave away her candy  Still working on a full list of treat claims but I'll go back to my original vote for now. ##vote 100yrs
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Sep 13, 2014 22:25
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Puntification posted:byers and/or somb give candy to ernie. Where are you getting this from?
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Sep 13, 2014 22:41
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Little Mac posted:Official Candy Tally It's a request not a statement rarity, it'd give ernie a vig without putting people on 0 - town should try to avoid zeroing themselves as it might tip off scum to who have PRs and who don't. I guess you and harold could do it as well but I didn't notice your count and I doubt he'd want to join in.
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Sep 13, 2014 22:48
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Someone needs to claim uranus's 2nd gifted candy. Puntification posted:It's a request not a statement rarity, it'd give ernie a vig without putting people on 0 - town should try to avoid zeroing themselves as it might tip off scum to who have PRs and who don't. I guess you and harold could do it as well but I didn't notice your count and I doubt he'd want to join in. I'd rather not risk having town be down 3 players on D1, personally.
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Sep 13, 2014 23:00
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Rarity posted:Someone needs to claim uranus's 2nd gifted candy. I thought byers claimed it? Boo Rarity that's no fun, we should exploit the mechanic while it exists, there's both the potential to kill scum and confirm town with one fell swoop, vigs are great vig 420.
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Sep 14, 2014 00:17
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Puntification posted:I thought byers claimed it? I miss things when you call him spacebutt  Ok, here's the whole list of candy treats. Not in order cause that would be way too confusing. BN -> merk Ernie -> merk AC -> Ernie AC -> Punt Dragonatrix -> Byers Somber -> merk Punt -> merk Punt -> uranus Byers -> uranus Dragonatrix -> AC (unclaimed but this is the only way the candy totals work) I think Punt, AC and Dragonatrix all look suspicious from this. Like I said before, I think scum would want to be giving away their candy. I especially don't like Punt pushing for a third vig.
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Sep 14, 2014 00:35
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Rarity posted:I miss things when you call him spacebutt Please demonstrate that wouldn't town want to give away candy too.
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Sep 14, 2014 00:49
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Puntification posted:Please demonstrate that wouldn't town want to give away candy too. I've said this before too. I want town to have the candy. There is one player in this game I know is town. Me. Hence why I want my candy to stay with me. Is everyone going to follow this logic? No. There's no way all three of you, AC and Dragon are scum but I think it's likely that at least one of you is.
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Sep 14, 2014 00:59
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Rarity posted:I've said this before too. I want town to have the candy. There is one player in this game I know is town. Me. Hence why I want my candy to stay with me. Is everyone going to follow this logic? No. There's no way all three of you, AC and Dragon are scum but I think it's likely that at least one of you is. I get what you're saying here. Very good pro-town reasons why they'd be keeping candy Punt.
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Sep 14, 2014 01:47
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I didn't give merk candy. I offered. Also, I haven't received candy from anyone. I started off with two, no one tricked me, and I tricked punt. I just want to kill uranus. This may or may not have anything to do with his alignment. It doesn't. Although he probably is a bad guy. Someone gift me candy so I can rid us of spacebutt.
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Sep 14, 2014 14:32
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Ernie, are you scum with AC?
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Sep 14, 2014 15:04
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Honestly, I'm completely uninterested in engaging you in anyway whatsoever until Uranus is eliminated.
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Sep 14, 2014 15:20
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If you never gave merk candy then the only way it can work is if Dragonatrix gave his second treat to merk and AC is lying about giving a piece to you.
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Sep 14, 2014 15:24
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Rarity posted:If you never gave merk candy then the only way it can work is if Dragonatrix gave his second treat to merk and AC is lying about giving a piece to you. I gave a piece to Ernie. I checked and doublechecked my PM log to be sure, and I definitely gave a piece to Ernie.
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Sep 14, 2014 15:45
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Rarity, walk me through your logic in saying that it HAS to be me lying.
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Sep 14, 2014 15:46
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im a goodguy ernie.
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Sep 14, 2014 16:26
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Ok, stick with me here. 100YrsofAttitude posted:100yrs- 1 Taking tricks into account this is the original candy tally (I added Punt's trick on AC) Little Mac posted:Official Candy Tally This is the first candy update we got (I added the 4 that uranus turned into a vig). First thing to note is that there's 27 total instead of 26. The total from the next update is 26 again so it looks like Mac just screwed up and forgot to knock one off somebody's total after a treat. Given the amount of confusion regarding Somber's tally, I think it's safe to say that's where the mistake is. Therefore we get from the trick tally to this tally with the following claims: BN -> merk Somber -> merk Punt -> merk AC -> Punt Punt -> uranus Byers -> uranus Little Mac posted:Official Candy Tally And then we come to the second official tally (I added 4 for merk's vig as well). The difference between the two tallies is have Byers (+1), Dragon (-2) and merk (+1). We know Dragon gave 1 to Byers so that accounts for that, leaving the only mysteries as what happened to Dragon's second treat and who gifted merk his final candy. With the claims on the table there are two possibilities: 1. Ernie treats merk, Dragonatrix treats AC, AC treats Ernie 2. Dragonatrix treats merk, AC doesn't treat Ernie Conclusion: Either Ernie is lying about not treating merk or AC is lying about treating Ernie. Logically, there is the possibility Dragonatrix treated someone else with candy that ended up looping it's way round to merk but nobody's claimed any treats that would allow it so unless they do I'm discounting that. Conclusion to the Conclusion: If AC's lying then there's one very clear reason for it. Scum can't treat scum so one of them flipping scum would make the other confirmed town. I haven't got a good reason for why Ernie would be lying. Dragon, can you check your sent PMs and figure out what happened to your second treat?
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Sep 14, 2014 16:50
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Rarity posted:Dragon, can you check your sent PMs and figure out what happened to your second treat? Yeah, I did and there is just the one sent. I'd be inclined to write that off as just moderror since there doesn't seem to be any reason for it to happen otherwise. Went back through the thread to see if there was a trick that we just missed and nothing like that. I am well aware that me wanting to write it off like that is incredibly suspect but it's the only conclusion that makes sense at the moment. Mostly this is because if we're counting out the totals, there seems to be another error in the new amounts too even discounting that. Started with 26, so we should be at 18 after the 2 dayvigs. Current totals are at 19 so not only did one go missing, but at least one more has been added somewhere too.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:08
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apostateCourier posted:I gave a piece to Ernie. I checked and doublechecked my PM log to be sure, and I definitely gave a piece to Ernie. Unless someone has access to a secret out-of-thread stealing mechanism then I have definitely not received anything from you. Are we sure that this isn't just because you sent it later than Mac's last login?
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Sep 14, 2014 17:28
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Official Candy Tally 1. merk 0 2. Somberbrero 2 3. uranus 1 4. 100YrsofAttitude 1 5. apostateCourier 1 6. Dragonatrix 1 7. Byers2142 2 8. Puntification 1 9. Rarity 2 10. Token Female 2 11. Big Nothing 0 12. Ernie. 3 13. Harold Krell 2
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Sep 14, 2014 17:31
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Either way, there's too much noise about a mechanic that won't really tell us anything until our first flip, and not enough talking about our first flip. Uranus is still a bad guy. If he's not bad guy then Puntification is but not because of anything Punti did/said to Uranus.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:31
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I just asked mac to clarify whether any errors have happened on his end.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:35
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##treat ernie i trust you not to kill me ernie, cause you know im a goodguy. if ernie actually does kill me with he's probably bad.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:45
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uranus posted:##treat ernie You treat in PM.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:47
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Dragonatrix posted:Current totals are at 19 so not only did one go missing, but at least one more has been added somewhere too. Nope, we're at 18 and you've definitely treated two people.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:47
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There is a slight miscount in the numbers, but it's not too far off from what I've posted. Not sure where the mixup is, but I apologize. 1. merk 0 2. Somberbrero 1 3. uranus 0 4. 100YrsofAttitude 1 5. apostateCourier 0 6. Dragonatrix 2 7. Byers2142 2 8. Puntification 1 9. Rarity 2 12. Ernie. 1 13. Harold Krell 2
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Sep 14, 2014 17:51
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i feel powerful i feel very, very powerful spacebutt, my will to discover the bad-guys far outweighs my will to avenge my demise elsewhere let me read this thread and come to a decision
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Sep 14, 2014 17:51
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Little Mac posted:There is a slight miscount in the numbers, but it's not too far off from what I've posted. Not sure where the mixup is, but I apologize. Well that's 12 total and that makes no sense whatsoever. I'm done with this. Imagine me tearing up a notebook.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:06
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All the thoughts I didn't publicize before now:100YrsofAttitude posted:I don't get Ernie's vote on Punt and would need that explained. Punt's above comment is really helpful since givers can't be scum buddies to whomever they gave. It could get us some confirmed town later in the game. I didn't like this post when 100Yrs first made it. 'Ernie suspects Punt, but Punt made a town-favoring post, and so I suspect Ernie' is pretty surface-level analysis from 100Yrs. Byers2142 posted:I disagree on Krell; he made the first really in-depth post of the game and in it called merk potentially green, because they've rarely played together in the past. He's also suggesting merk might be scummy, but his action was to try and keep the kill away from merk which fits if he thinks merk shouldn't be trusted with the kill regardless of alignment. It feels genuine and is a bad case because of who merk, specifically, is. Byers is probably town this game. When he's scum he gets super-excited to start casting doubt on everyone around him. Here he stuck his neck out for Krell relatively quickly. Dragonatrix posted:I am well aware that me wanting to write it off like that is incredibly suspect but it's the only conclusion that makes sense at the moment. Mostly this is because if we're counting out the totals, there seems to be another error in the new amounts too even discounting that. Started with 26, so we should be at 18 after the 2 dayvigs. Current totals are at 19 so not only did one go missing, but at least one more has been added somewhere too. This feels honest. I find that preemptive posts are overwhelmingly made by un-guilty town. Scum pre-emptiveness is exclusive to them pretending like their thoughts are evolving. This on the other hand has no effect on the grand scale of the game, but Dragon feels like he should be honest upfront about it nonetheless. ___ This is where I would read Krell. I am not reading Krell. ___ merk posted:Yo, give me the candy. As I've said in previous games, I'm the player here who you can trust will use the item in the most pro-town way possible. If I'm town, you trust my game theory, you always have. Even if I am scum, which I am not, I will use a publicly available item in the most pro-town way possible so that I look town using it. I've blindly trusted merk as town since this post. If he were scum he'd probably paint it as pro-scum to not gift him candies, or he'd not be as honest-sounding. I've recently actually had a good run of reading merk recently and this fits with that well. Rarity posted:I haven't got a good reason for why Ernie would be lying. I think Rarity sounds logical here, but this is the exact sort of post scum would make to sound ~totally town~. Null read. Puntification posted:Conveniently meaning you won't have to take responsibility for it if it goes wrong. Puntification posted:How do you feel about krell? These posts bugged me immensely when I first read them. They totally read like newbie scum that's trying to sow doubt and seem helpful all too hard. But then uranus posted:nice catch this is possibly the least likely post in the world that i would expect spacebutt to make in reaction to punti's post apostateCourier posted:I don't like that Krell disappeared after I called him out. Apo isn't at all self-conscious here, and town apo totally believes in voting for pressure. Sombrero replies with: Somberbrero posted:Strong gut read on AC. ##vote apostateCourier This feels like a safe, opportunistic vote. Somberbrero posted:##holiday Founder's Day because America. This was also a p bad post, he tries to get on merk's good side with the mechanic, instead of exploiting it to confirm that someone he might think is scum (not-merk) gifts him a candy. In summary, I'd probably list my scum-picks as Sombrero > Uranus > Puntification > 100Yrs > Rarity not willing to vig/cuddle anyone else today
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Sep 14, 2014 18:10
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hmm ##vote sombebrero
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Sep 14, 2014 18:15
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