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jivjov posted:They're already getting their "crumb of the pie". Their paycheck. They aren't entitled to any of the corporate sale money, any more than Microsoft employees would be to direct percentages of profit. You sound like you'd be really unfun to work for.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:04
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OwlFancier posted:It is possibly a bit dickish to set up a company, hire a bunch of people, have said people make you a shitload of money working on your cash cow game, then sell said company because you felt angsty without perhaps giving the people who made you a shitload of money a small crumb of the pie. Full socialism now, eh? Anyone pissed about how Mojang's employees are treated, should be really pissed off at capitalism. This is how capitalism works, yo.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:08
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Heavy Lobster posted:You sound like you'd be really unfun to work for. Because I'd make sure my employees got paid, up until the point where it was no longer my responsibility to do so? Again, Notch fulfilled all his obligations. Everything from here forward is in Microsoft's hands.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:13
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Full socialism now, eh? Well I am! Capitalism has ruined and will ruin more than any other system ever conceived. It's literally worse than facism or socialism. Of course this is not a subject for this thread though 
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Sep 16, 2014 11:20
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jivjov posted:They're already getting their "crumb of the pie". Their paycheck. They aren't entitled to any of the corporate sale money, any more than Microsoft employees would be to direct percentages of profit. Microsoft employees are entitled to direct percentages of profit. Because there's a thing called stocks. Do you know how reality works?
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Sep 16, 2014 11:23
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horse mans posted:Microsoft employees are entitled to direct percentages of profit. Because there's a thing called stocks. Do you know how reality works? I thought the only shareholders were the three who sold to Microsoft? I don't think any of the other Mojang employees had stock in the company.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:24
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horse mans posted:Microsoft employees are entitled to direct percentages of profit. Because there's a thing called stocks. Do you know how reality works? The Janitors there must be very happy 
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Sep 16, 2014 11:26
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Don't sell your house that you own for a job in another country, hope this helps.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:36
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For those pissed off on behalf of Mojang's employees - are you really that upset that a handful of employees that you don't know or really care about didn't get the chance to participate in profit sharing (which is not at all a given in any other industry), or are you just looking for a reason to be angry and that seems like a good noble excuse to do so? Like, I get it that Microsoft may ruin the game, that's something to be concerned about, but desperately searching for any reason to be personally offended at Notch is exactly the reason he stated for selling the company. Honestly, why do you even care if Notch is being hypocritical? The only thing that affects your experience with the game is what Microsoft plans to do with it from this point forward - direct your premature rage in that direction instead.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:37
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Don't sell your house that you own for a job in another country, hope this helps. He's been working for them from Seattle for three years they just decided to move him to Sweden just recently.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:52
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Don't sell your house that you own for a job in another country, hope this helps. Tweet this to Marc and see how quickly he gets back to you on it
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Sep 16, 2014 12:03
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gently caress you, got minecraft
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Sep 16, 2014 12:03
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Vib Rib posted:For as long as I live I will wonder what Minecraft by Valve would have been like. We'd still be on 1.2.5, or beta 1.3_03 or something. As much as I like Valve I wouldn't want them touching Minecraft, as a company they are incredibly lazy on the dev side.
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Sep 16, 2014 12:14
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Sorus posted:We'd still be on 1.2.5, or beta 1.3_03 or something. As much as I like Valve I wouldn't want them touching Minecraft, as a company they are incredibly lazy on the dev side.
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Sep 16, 2014 12:16
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CJacobs posted:Tweet this to Marc and see how quickly he gets back to you on it I'd rather not have a mans suicide on my conscience, honestly.
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Sep 16, 2014 12:18
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Vib Rib posted:Comparison case: Narbacular Drop VS Portal. I kinda felt Portal was a step back, or at least to the side. It was certainly more refined, but I actually liked Narbacular Drop's ability to shoot portals through portals.
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Sep 16, 2014 12:22
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What was the turnaround on DOTA 2? I feel like Valve is really only lazy when they end up in a hole where they're not sure where they want to go or what they want to do. If they have a clear vision, they'll execute it pretty efficiently.
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Sep 16, 2014 12:41
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jivjov posted:I thought the only shareholders were the three who sold to Microsoft? I don't think any of the other Mojang employees had stock in the company. correct and the question is should they have and the answer is yes
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Sep 16, 2014 13:38
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Sorus posted:I kinda felt Portal was a step back, or at least to the side. It was certainly more refined, but I actually liked Narbacular Drop's ability to shoot portals through portals. I liked Narbacular Drop well before Portal was a thing. That said, if you think you can even compare the two games (nevermind suggesting it's a step-back or step-sideways) due to the loss of that one mechanic, you're nuts.
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Sep 16, 2014 13:47
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MikeJF posted:What was the turnaround on DOTA 2? I mean, how long will they have been working on SteamOS, assuming they release it in 2015 (the chance of which is probably half)? Four years? Four loving years to put out a Linux distro? A lot of people wish Notch had sold to Valve. I can understand why he didn't.
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Sep 16, 2014 13:49
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Kilroy posted:I mean, how long will they have been working on SteamOS, assuming they release it in 2015 (the chance of which is probably half)? Four years? Four loving years to put out a Linux distro? SteamOS is mostly a life preserver in case Microsoft completely walls off the Windows garden.
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Sep 16, 2014 14:28
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Where were you guys beating your drums for all the other times people sold companies to Google, Facebook, Apple and Microsoft and screwed over their employees? Just because Mojang was small and you sort of knew a couple people's names doesn't make it any different. Employees aren't entitled to proceeds from company buyouts. I'd venture to say there are probably very specific laws protecting companies from money-grabbing employees for these very reasons. This shouldn't even be a capitalism vs. socialism debate. Maybe reserve that for important stuff like healthcare and education.
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Sep 16, 2014 14:30
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Atoramos posted:I liked Narbacular Drop well before Portal was a thing. That said, if you think you can even compare the two games (nevermind suggesting it's a step-back or step-sideways) due to the loss of that one mechanic, you're nuts. Exactly. There's no game, it's the most basic tech demo showcasing shooting portals on walls and going through them, it's just a barely implemented idea. Saying Portal is a step back is just hilarious to me.
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Sep 16, 2014 14:35
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Slowpoke! posted:Where were you guys beating your drums for all the other times people sold companies to Google, Facebook, Apple and Microsoft and screwed over their employees? Just because Mojang was small and you sort of knew a couple people's names doesn't make it any different. Employees aren't entitled to proceeds from company buyouts. I'd venture to say there are probably very specific laws protecting companies from money-grabbing employees for these very reasons. But Google, Facebook, Apple and Microsoft's employees didn't get screwed out of a buy-out windfall like Mojang did? Specifically Google is the model we've brought up already, everyone at Google owned stock before they went public and made lots of money when they did. Facebook too. Apple and Microsoft are super old comparatively but I imagine that's what Wozniak is currently spending on Apple things. It's the way startups operate, everyone gets filthy loving rich when they all collectively sell out. Notch didn't do it this way, and instead kept a vast majority of it and complained about his poor life choices when it came to connecting with people. I'm going to call him an rear end in a top hat for that. KakerMix fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 14:52
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I said companies bought by Google, Facebook, etc. Not those companies themselves. And why should Notch have given part of his stake in the company beforehand? If Minecraft was profitable enough initially for him to expand his company without needing a capital influx from outside investors, then why would he not just keep his stake in the company intact?
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Sep 16, 2014 15:12
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A rising tide lifts all ships*
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Sep 16, 2014 15:13
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When did the "screwed over employees" get hired? I might be mixing things up, but iirc Minecraft had already made millions, when Mojang was founded. So you're not necessarily talking about a traditional startup where equity is given instead of decent wages.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:14
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I'm chuckling right now that someone sold their house and moved away from Seattle so they could work for Microsoft.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:14
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Slowpoke! posted:And why should Notch have given part of his stake in the company beforehand? If Minecraft was profitable enough initially for him to expand his company without needing a capital influx from outside investors, then why would he not just keep his stake in the company intact? Humanity, while also making billions. You can indeed do both!
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Sep 16, 2014 15:21
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KakerMix posted:But Google, Facebook, Apple and Microsoft's employees didn't get screwed out of a buy-out windfall like Mojang did? Specifically Google is the model we've brought up already, everyone at Google owned stock before they went public and made lots of money when they did. Facebook too. Apple and Microsoft are super old comparatively but I imagine that's what Wozniak is currently spending on Apple things. It's the way startups operate, everyone gets filthy loving rich when they all collectively sell out. Notch didn't do it this way, and instead kept a vast majority of it and complained about his poor life choices when it came to connecting with people. I'm going to call him an rear end in a top hat for that. So because notch didn't give away hundreds of millions of dollars to the people he hired off the street for no discernible reason he's a selfish rear end in a top hat. Any other insane opinions of yours you want to share with us?
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Sep 16, 2014 15:29
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Schweinhund posted:So because notch didn't give away hundreds of millions of dollars to the people he hired off the street for no discernible reason he's a selfish rear end in a top hat. Any other insane opinions of yours you want to share with us? Yeah, I think you might be an rear end in a top hat too 
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Sep 16, 2014 15:36
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Whalley posted:I'm chuckling right now that someone sold their house and moved away from Seattle so they could work for Microsoft. The joke gets better, he turned down a job at Microsoft to work for Mojang in the first place.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:53
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Dr Suntory posted:When did the "screwed over employees" get hired? I might be mixing things up, but iirc Minecraft had already made millions, when Mojang was founded. So you're not necessarily talking about a traditional startup where equity is given instead of decent wages. The other side to this is that according to what sources we have, Mojang pays really poorly compared to the rest of the industry. So when "screwed over employees" is being brought up, the equity thing is part of a large picture that includes really lovely wages and forcing them to move to a country with insane tax rate and housing issues (Dinnerbone, for example, was only able to find a permanent apartment this year and all the the MC devs live in apartments because its too loving expensive to live in a house there) and expect the employee to pay for the move (while this makes sense that you'd need to be willing to do so, a good number of employees who did not need to work from the office, such as Marc who is head of customer support which could be done out of any country in the world, was forced to move in order to keep his job of three years and was done so by the CEO who know that the company was being sold so Marc's position may possibly come into question very soon, so yeah, dickish to tell a guy to sell half of his belongings and move his entire family to the other side of the world, but don't mention that hey, there is a possibility your job could be replaced with one of Microsoft's support departments). So yeah, comparing to the entire industry, Mojang employees are treated rather poorly so the whole "company stock" issue is kind of just the cherry on top. But again, we are arguing opinions here, not fact. I agree with Kaker that Notch is a dick, I'm not saying that everyone has to acknowledge him as a dick and a lovely employer, but my opinion is that that is what he is. 
Enzer fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 16:00
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Enzer posted:The other side to this is that according to what sources we have, Mojang pays really poorly compared to the rest of the industry. So when "screwed over employees" is being brought up, the equity thing is part of a large picture that includes really lovely wages and forcing them to move to a country with insane tax rate and housing issues (Dinnerbone, for example, was only able to find a permanent apartment this year and all the the MC devs live in apartments because its too loving expensive to live in a house there)[..] Not being able to afford a house in loving Stockholm
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Sep 16, 2014 16:13
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Enzer posted:The other side to this is that according to what sources we have, Mojang pays really poorly compared to the rest of the industry. Do you have any sources on this?
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Sep 16, 2014 16:19
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Don't sell your house that you own for a job in another country, hope this helps. Considering multiple people ITT have said that they 'made' him sell his house can anyone actually prove he was 'made' to sell his house versus...him applying for a job in Sweden? Like yea, poo poo sucks but maybe immigrating to another country with zero friends/support networks for a programming job isn't the smartest thing in the world?
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Sep 16, 2014 16:25
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Jin Wicked posted:Not angry or anything, but I think it's okay to be a little sad. I've had a lot of good times playing Minecraft with my husband and IRL friends over the last couple of years. I don't really have any faith in Microsoft. My impression of the 360 is a fickle box for serving up advertising with a side of video games. When it seems like everything in the world is owned by a handful of huge companies, it's disappointing to see yet another property get gobbled up. This, and then I think even more about all the kids that play the game. Everyone would have had a really lovely opinion of Mr Rogers if he had sold out. Notch is no Mr Rogers, but at least he had a philosophy that it isn't ok to exploit people, particularly kids, via his game. Microsoft has done the opposite in the past, though at least not so much in their kids / "family" targeted games. jivjov posted:They're already getting their "crumb of the pie". Their paycheck. They aren't entitled to any of the corporate sale money, any more than Microsoft employees would be to direct percentages of profit. OTOH nobody in video games gets that stuff, and I'd wager that Mojang's supposedly lovely wages aren't terrible by industry comparisons, even when you factor in the cost of living in Sweden. Plenty of people who are game devs are renting apartments.
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Sep 16, 2014 16:47
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jivjov posted:They're already getting their "crumb of the pie". Their paycheck. They aren't entitled to any of the corporate sale money, any more than Microsoft employees would be to direct percentages of profit. Legally you are correct. Ethically, perhaps if you become monstrously rich off the continued efforts of a team to maintain your work for several years, it might be considered polite at least to give them more than a basic wage? Unless you're some sort of Randian turbocapitalist. I dunno, I figure at least you might want to help the guy who is moving country to do the job you sold the company because you couldn't handle, a bit of a hand towards his moving expenses? Certainly the games industry is notorious for being lovely to work for, and certainly if you're a small new startup indie studio you might not be able to afford to throw out money willy nilly, but when you just sold the company for two thousand, five hundred million dollars, I don't think it's really beyond your means to maybe toss a hundred thousand dollars to your former employees as a token 'sorry about your job security' fruit basket. Lucy Heartfilia posted:Full socialism now, eh? Is there some sort of weird doppelganger of me who has some sort of history with being an ardent socialist? People keep commenting on that and I'm sure they have me confused with someone else. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 16:47
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Basically, when you're working for a tiny Indie with only a dozen or two staff that makes it big time all of a sudden, there's a general feeling that you should pretty generously reward your staff, give them a slice of the pie. You're not obligated to, but it's kinda a dick move not to. This thread seems to be an argument between those with that point of view, and those who are full on the corporate obligations only business train. I dunno, in my view Mojang wasn't the kind of place big enough to pull the full faceless entity bullshit, it was small enough that things were still personal, and it feels like it would've been good for Notch to share the fortunes with those who helped him build it to some degree as it increased in value a million times. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 16:50
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Klyith posted:This, and then I think even more about all the kids that play the game. Everyone would have had a really lovely opinion of Mr Rogers if he had sold out. Notch is no Mr Rogers, but at least he had a philosophy that it isn't ok to exploit people, particularly kids, via his game. Microsoft has done the opposite in the past, though at least not so much in their kids / "family" targeted games. The kids don't give a poo poo about stupid internet slapfights and if anything the constant handwringing all over the net about how oh gee big bad micro$oft basically is going to wreck this and gee it's so sad that Minecraft is basically dead all those kids are gonna get exploited is what would make a kid worry. Maybe just, like, be an adult? Like, wait five loving minutes before weeping and rending your shirt about the evil empire?
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Sep 16, 2014 17:03
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