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FRINGE posted:A made-up example of a bad one would be: "Well I guess Personality will have to give a bonus to Baking skill because that makes the statistics better!"\ They should make sense of course, although since you only have 6 attributes to work with and everything needs to be viable to some degree, you inevitably need to stretch them a little bit unless you're going to add even more separate attributes. Either way I'm pretty sure it's being taken into consideration.
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Sep 16, 2014 10:59
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Trying to go to RPGcodex to read their thread on this game again was a mistake. You'd think ropekid personally burnt down their altar to Baldur's Gate from how those armchair-designers are going on. Also, with the possible changes to attributes, the names should be more accurate than ever.
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Sep 16, 2014 14:41
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GreyPowerVan posted:I'm only following the thread every couple of days, but be careful not to make the attributes seem too weird. The name of the attribute should still (generally) tell what it does, I think, or else it will confuse people. Why does resolve give x y and z and int gives a b and z but dex also gives c d and x ??? FRINGE posted:No one has asked for anything like that. Most of the people in this thread have been crunching RPG numbers for many years. Yeah, most of the above stats discussion at least makes some kind of sense but a few of the proposals just don't seem to "fit" right -- i.e., Intelligence boosting Deflection? I read lots of books means I'm good with a shield? Huh?
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Sep 16, 2014 14:45
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evilmiera posted:Trying to go to RPGcodex to read their thread on this game again was a mistake. You'd think ropekid personally burnt down their altar to Baldur's Gate from how those armchair-designers are going on. The last few pages? It's because of this person: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/roguey-vs-the-grognards-thread.94135/#post-3479962
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Sep 16, 2014 14:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, most of the above stats discussion at least makes some kind of sense but a few of the proposals just don't seem to "fit" right -- i.e., Intelligence boosting Deflection? I read lots of books means I'm good with a shield? Huh? If you're a nerd you better be good at dodgeball.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:00
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Sensuki posted:The last few pages? Reading them makes me think there are people specifically tuned to take offense at anything. Including getting a game not entirely tuned to their own internal ideas of what games should be, down to every little detail.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:01
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I always heard RPG Codex was bad but jesus christ. I couldn't get past the first page on that thread. Does everyone on that site have 100% of their self esteem wrapped up in exactly one type of RPG they like?
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Sep 16, 2014 15:13
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evilmiera posted:Reading them makes me think there are people specifically tuned to take offense at anything. Nah there's a few posters that deliberately stir poo poo. The person I linked, every second post of his is just a copy-paste of a rope kid quote from somewhere - here, obs boards, formspring, tumblr. He does such a convincing job that several people thinks that he is actually rope kid trolling them. Infinitron also likes to stir the people up that he knows don't agree with rope kid's design philosophy. There are a lot of people there that don't like the IE games, don't like real-time with pause as well, so you're gonna find a lot of that kind of stuff. It is a place where Fallout and Arcanum are considered two of the best RPGs ever made.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:14
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There are way too many people invested in ropekid's personal life and his abilities as a game designer in that thread.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:21
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Lotish posted:If you're a nerd you better be good at dodgeball. That just means you should be pumping dex for high reflex (which does make sense!) Sensuki posted:
Wow, that poo poo is amazingly horrible.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:25
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I don't know about that. They're not my favourite RPGs but I can definitely see the merits of both. Fallout is probably the best sandbox-y style RPG. A lot of players like that freedom. BG1 has a similar (but not quite as much) looseness about it compared to BG2.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:30
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I hope once the worst bugs in the beta are ironed out, Obsidian takes a serious look at the the recovery mechanic. Maybe it'll turn out fine, but it just sounds like such an unfun mechanic to me. Kiting is basic RTS gameplay, and if it's too problematic, there are more interesting ways to deal with it. It can be accounted for in class, monster, encounter & area design. The current approach seems heavy handed.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:37
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That just means you should be pumping dex for high reflex (which does make sense!) The discussion forum is the worst part of the Codex. It makes up for it because the staff (DarkUnderlord, CrookedB, and co) go out of their way to drum up interesting interviews and retrospectives. They even interviewed the guy responsible for Deathlord. That's dedication. Sensuki posted:I don't know about that. They're not my favourite RPGs but I can definitely see the merits of both. Fallout is probably the best sandbox-y style RPG. A lot of players like that freedom. BG1 has a similar (but not quite as much) looseness about it compared to BG2. BG1 definitely felt more open, even though BG2 was a much larger game. It had a lot to do with how the narratives were structured. In BG2, you start to see the shift toward a more 'cinematic' narrative. The Chapters coincide with story points that force you into certain places, mostly due to Irenicus's actions. Neverwinter Nights not withstanding, since it was developed more as a 'create your own adventure' tool, Bioware games really started morphing into more tightly scripted, nearly on rails, storylines. By the time you hit Mass Effect, it really becomes their hallmark. The first Dragon Age deviates from that, a little, but it was in production for so long that it really was kind of a throwback. I remember reading about it when Neverwinter Nights came out.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:37
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That is the most amazingly putrid thread, wow.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:37
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verybad posted:I hope once the worst bugs in the beta are ironed out, Obsidian takes a serious look at the the recovery mechanic. Maybe it'll turn out fine, but it just sounds like such an unfun mechanic to me. Kiting is basic RTS gameplay, and if it's too problematic, there are more interesting ways to deal with it. It can be accounted for in class, monster, encounter & area design. The current approach seems heavy handed. I agree AbsolutelySane posted:BG1 definitely felt more open, even though BG2 was a much larger game. It had a lot to do with how the narratives were structured. In BG2, you start to see the shift toward a more 'cinematic' narrative. The Chapters coincide with story points that force you into certain places, mostly due to Irenicus's actions. Oh no doubt. BG2's chapter 2 was pretty open though.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:41
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verybad posted:I hope once the worst bugs in the beta are ironed out, Obsidian takes a serious look at the the recovery mechanic. Maybe it'll turn out fine, but it just sounds like such an unfun mechanic to me. Kiting is basic RTS gameplay, and if it's too problematic, there are more interesting ways to deal with it. It can be accounted for in class, monster, encounter & area design. The current approach seems heavy handed.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:50
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Sensuki posted:I don't know about that. They're not my favourite RPGs but I can definitely see the merits of both. Fallout is probably the best sandbox-y style RPG. A lot of players like that freedom. BG1 has a similar (but not quite as much) looseness about it compared to BG2. I'm pretty sure the original Fallout was the only old-style isometric RPG I actually finished.
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Sep 16, 2014 16:08
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Good, or at least common (partial) solution to the problem would be adding turn rates, if they're not already used. Longer attack animations for ranged attacks & abilities vs melee ones will also address the problem, and reload animations for weapon types where it's appropriate (these may be something you maybe should be able to cancel out of, but must fully complete before attacking again). It won't fully remove kiting, but is that even desirable? You talked about abusing the stealth mechanics to pull away single enemies away earlier being possible & fun in the current build, and I feel it's a bit similar to kiting. Sure, both are a little cheesy but as long as it doesn't get out of hand it's actually kind of fun thing to do. (Kiting as a core mechanic also promotes giving melee types blink/burst of speed movement abilities to compensate, and those are always the most fun abilities to use.)
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Sep 16, 2014 16:21
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Sensuki don't respond to Immortal over on that other forum, he sounds like the sort of shitstirring rear end in a top hat you were describing :P Down that path lies madness.
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Sep 16, 2014 16:52
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verybad posted:(Kiting as a core mechanic also promotes giving melee types blink/burst of speed movement abilities to compensate, and those are always the most fun abilities to use.)
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Sep 16, 2014 17:35
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That codexer with the Malkavian avatar is a massive Scheisse Kopf.
Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 17:39
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Darkhold posted:I always heard RPG Codex was bad but jesus christ. It is seriously the worst. I do love how Divinity Original Sin is flawless, good, and pure, while the just released early beta of PoE is the shittiest game ever made by the hands of man because Josh Sawyer is a blight upon the world of RPGs.
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Sep 16, 2014 18:25
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:It is seriously the worst. I do love how Divinity Original Sin is flawless, good, and pure, while the just released early beta of PoE is the shittiest game ever made by the hands of man because Josh Sawyer is a blight upon the world of RPGs. They also think Skyrim and Oblivion are bad games while Morrowind and Arcanum are good. Basically, you can just do the opposite of whatever they say.
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Sep 16, 2014 19:10
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Skyrim is really awful, as a game, though.
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Sep 16, 2014 19:27
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Holy poo poo, that codex thread 
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Sep 16, 2014 19:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Intelligence boosting Deflection? I read lots of books means I'm good with a shield? Huh? Intelligence making for a better fencer makes perfect sense to me. It's not so much about speed or precision or balance (though these are still vital), it's about knowing exactly how and when to attack so as not to leave yourself open to riposte. And, honestly, if all we need is one slightly-off association to make a balanced stat spread, I'd say we're doing pretty well.
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Sep 16, 2014 19:31
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:I do love how Divinity Original Sin is flawless, good, and pure... An opinion definitely not restricted to RPG Codex, though one that's a bit mysterious to me. You really have to be in love with D:OS combat mechanics to slobber all over that title. In every other way, it's incredibly mediocre.
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Sep 16, 2014 19:42
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Airfoil posted:An opinion definitely not restricted to RPG Codex, though one that's a bit mysterious to me. You really have to be in love with D:OS combat mechanics to slobber all over that title. In every other way, it's incredibly mediocre. Divinity is so goddamn frustrating that it's almost insulting. It's very enjoyable of course and I'll finish it eventually, but the dialogue and lore is just piss-terrible. The writing style smells of Belgian cultural inferiority complex (I say this as a Belgian who struggles with exactly that). NeilPerry fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 19:48
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Airfoil posted:An opinion definitely not restricted to RPG Codex, though one that's a bit mysterious to me. You really have to be in love with D:OS combat mechanics to slobber all over that title. In every other way, it's incredibly mediocre. Well, the music is good and the art and graphics in general are neat. It is mostly the story that's generic as heck. Edit: vvv Well, I'm mostly calling it generic since their last outing was so much more fun by comparison. Sure, the main plot was still generic, but you had things like the imperial decisions you could make, and the characters, while somewhat flat, still stood out well enough that you could actually tell which ones would act a certain way given a set of circumstances. Beyond a few outliers you really don't see that much in OS. evilmiera fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 19:49
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evilmiera posted:Well, the music is good and the art and graphics in general are neat. It is mostly the story that's generic as heck. Don't they pretend to think story is important rather than inflating their undeserved egos? It's like they aren't even trying.
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Sep 16, 2014 19:53
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Airfoil posted:An opinion definitely not restricted to RPG Codex, though one that's a bit mysterious to me. You really have to be in love with D:OS combat mechanics to slobber all over that title. In every other way, it's incredibly mediocre. D:Os has an interesting art and very good music, has unique (for nowadays) reactivity of the gameworld, and has very strong combat. Moreoever, even the story itself has a lot of charming moments. Sure, it's uninspired, but it also has a lot of neat little details and some of the dialog and sidequests are really great. Now, yes it also has some /really/ annoying parts storywise but what's annoying is subjective so as long as it doesn't make the game too much of a pain the rest can really, really shine. D:OS is pretty much the best rpg of the last decade without question for me personally (only ones that come close are NWN2 and that's mostly because it scratches a different itch).
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Sep 16, 2014 20:00
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NeilPerry posted:Divinity is so goddamn frustrating that it's almost insulting. For me it was the lack of direction. I don't need quest markers and stuff, and maybe I didn't try enough but the odd hint as where to go or road sign wouldn't hurt.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:09
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Autonomous Monster posted:Intelligence making for a better fencer makes perfect sense to me. It's not so much about speed or precision or balance (though these are still vital), it's about knowing exactly how and when to attack so as not to leave yourself open to riposte. It even has precedent in D&D!
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Sep 16, 2014 20:09
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Arkeus posted:
Divinity: Original Sin is the best fantasy RPG I've played since Dragon Age: Origins. It has a lot of minor flaws. I think it's about on par with a game like, say, Avernum -- very good at scratching that "I want to play a tactical RPG" itch, but not something you're gonna try to convince all your friends they have to play. It's the sort of game that entertains fans of the genre but not the sort of game that creates new fans for the genre. Setting aside the Gold Box and Infinity Engine games, I think a good argument can be made that the best RPG for its time was Darklands. The world really needs a remake of that one. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 20:12
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Furism posted:For me it was the lack of direction. I don't need quest markers and stuff, and maybe I didn't try enough but the odd hint as where to go or road sign wouldn't hurt. I liked that, actually. I just wish the game had a more interesting grounding for me to care enough to try and figure things out on my own. Everything (apart from direction) just gets spelled out so I just don't feel any sense of achievement. My only real complaint with the game is dialogue, really. Even if it just is a Fable-ish irreverent romp through a dumb world, the dialogue doesn't channel that aspect with any consistency.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Setting aside the Gold Box and Infinity Engine games, I think a good argument can be made that the best RPG for its time was Darklands. The world really needs a remake of that one.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:16
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SNAKES N CAKES posted:They also think Skyrim and Oblivion are bad games while Morrowind and Arcanum are good. Basically, you can just do the opposite of whatever they say. Three of those things are true
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Sep 16, 2014 20:18
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Cicero posted:Are you aware of Serpent in the Staglands? That game is going to be amazing, I love the UI too <3
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Sep 16, 2014 20:23
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SNAKES N CAKES posted:They also think Skyrim and Oblivion are bad games while Morrowind and Arcanum are good. Basically, you can just do the opposite of whatever they say. Don't talk poo poo about Morrowind, motherfucker, or I'll gently caress you up.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:24
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Pretty much how I figured it would work and it isn't that long of a stretch.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:49
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