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Now that Netcop is irrelevant can we start calling it David Shoemaker-level research?
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Sep 16, 2014 11:03
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:Has anyone else read David Shoemaker's The Squared Circle? If so, what are your thoughts? It seemed kinda superficial to me, he seemed a little too easy on some of the people he focused on, and I remember thinking he made a few judgment calls on the facts I didn't agree with. Put it this way, Shoemaker takes things Triple H says in interviews he does to hype PPVs at face value. That's the level of scrutiny he gives the business.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:43
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:Has anyone else read David Shoemaker's The Squared Circle? If so, what are your thoughts? It seemed kinda superficial to me, he seemed a little too easy on some of the people he focused on, and I remember thinking he made a few judgment calls on the facts I didn't agree with. There was some discussion on the book and Shoemaker earlier in this thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3180956&pagenumber=1388&perpage=40 I haven't gotten around to finishing it (not even halfway through) because I'm easily distracted. I thought it was interesting/informative, but I'm also not the most knowledgeable wrestling fan, so I had no idea that Shoemaker had such a negative reputation until reading this thread. Questions: -I know that the WWE Network wasn't doing as well as people thought it would, but has the situation improved now that it's available (mostly) worldwide? -How's ADR doing in Mexico? Is he getting the intended reaction from fans? Also, how's ADR getting along with Myzteziz (The Artist Formally Known as Místico)? Didn't ADR really hate him back in WWE?
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Sep 16, 2014 15:56
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:Has anyone else read David Shoemaker's Is about the time everyone should realize whatever it is, it's going to be incredibly misinformed, overwritten garbage.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:59
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I enjoyed the book. Shoemaker may not be the most reliable historian or journalist, but he's good at writing about why characters worked and how they fit into the zeitgeist.quote:Not long after, Rude began decorating his tights with his own face, a level of narcissism previously unmatched even in wrestling's ego parade. To be self-absorbed and overconfident was perhaps an act of sensible egomania; to paint ones own treasured visage with crotch as canvas was an unprecedented affront to our wrestling sensibilities. Previously, ring gear had largely been an afterthought, a series of unspectacular mini-billboards reminding us of catchphrases, nicknames ("Mr. #1derful"), and the names of special moves ("Thump"). If anything, such sewn-on words distracted us from the fact that we were looking at a man's pelvic region. Rude's attention-grabbing ensembles inverted such convention. They underscored the fundamentally homoerotic nature of the enterprise: his comeliness was indistinguishable from his physique and also from his, er, manhood. The masturbatory allusion was not ambiguous. When Rude rotated his hips in the ring, hands behind his head, he wasn't showing off for the crowd or playing mind games with his opponent: He was sucking his own dick. Come on, that's great.
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Sep 16, 2014 16:01
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Nick_326 posted:-I know that the WWE Network wasn't doing as well as people thought it would, but has the situation improved now that it's available (mostly) worldwide? We don't really know this yet. WWE is releasing subscriber numbers quarterly, and the last time they released them was right before the international launch. Nick_326 posted:Also, how's ADR getting along with Myzteziz (The Artist Formally Known as Místico)? Didn't ADR really hate him back in WWE? I have no information on this, except to say that I've heard from this board both that they hated each other and that they were very close friends, so I don't know what to believe.
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Sep 16, 2014 16:01
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Nick_326 posted:
He was SUPER over on Triplemania. And he's main eventing the next show(s).
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Sep 16, 2014 16:40
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Who was the wrestler you were most disappointed with as you've gotten older/learned more about them? Davey Boy Smith. He was my favorite guy as a kid, but most of the stories about him really paint him as a gullible/thoughtless moron. He roided himself to the point of stupidity/poor health. He spent most of his career looking like an overcooked hot dog, and he was really lucky to be around Bret and Owen. The dumbest thing I can think of is that he was given the biggest opportunity of his life at SummerSlam 1992, and showed up hung over/stoned/in awful shape, and was completely unprepared. His injury with the WCW trap door was some bad luck, and he was lucky Vince McMahon ended up picking him up. I think, for a while, people made the case that he was one of the best guys to never hold a world title, but knowing what I know now, he was very fortunate to get where he was considering he was an idiot. I'm not even sure I know the details of his alleged abuse of Diana Hart, and I don't really want to know. He died of a heart attack at THIRTY NINE, and his son (who's actually not bad at all) is into the same stupid poo poo.
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Sep 16, 2014 16:53
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Who was the wrestler you were most disappointed with as you've gotten older/learned more about them? On the flipside, I'm really happy Bret Hart turned out okay. I mean sure he's a bit of an rear end in a top hat, but in the grand scheme of pro wrestling he has processed a lot of the poo poo that he was dealing with in a mature way.
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Sep 16, 2014 16:57
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Has there ever been a promo where Bubba/Bully Ray uses the words "wake up"? After seeing some random TNA poo poo at the Botchamania panel at magfest 8.5, I need this sound for something exceptionally stupid.
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Sep 16, 2014 17:15
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ICHIBAHN posted:on the book note, anyone read Sex Lies & Headlocks? I've read it. It's got some pretty interesting information, but parts are held back by lack of access to WWF talent for interviews. Reading between the lines, it also looks an awful lot like Bischoff and Nash contributed some interviews under condition of anonymity, leading to some odd spots where the book seems to follow their versions of events while also painting them in the least charitable light possible. Definitely worth a read, though.
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Sep 16, 2014 17:22
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I enjoyed the book. Shoemaker may not be the most reliable historian or journalist, but he's good at writing about why characters worked and how they fit into the zeitgeist. I can enjoy that to some degree (I really liked Andre: Life and Legend, which sources a bunch of old stories about Andre from various shoot interviews and wrestler autobiographies) but it's so weird to do a history of pro wrestling that focuses on individual mythology. These were real people with real, legitimate flaws, and he glosses over those, from Macho Man to Fabulous Moolah (he also doesn't cover some really, really important figures in wrestling). Andre: Life and Legend is actually more critical of Andre as a person that Shoemaker is. Daniel Bryan posted:Is about the time everyone should realize whatever it is, it's going to be incredibly misinformed, overwritten garbage. I wasn't familiar with his stuff beforehand, I just like old stories about Frank Gotch. On that note, what would everyone suggest is the best book/resource on that early period of wrestling history, covering Frank Gotch and the Gold Dust Trio up to the formation of the NWA? AmbassadorFriendly fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 17:39
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:I wasn't familiar with his stuff beforehand, I just like old stories about Frank Gotch. I've asked the same thing in the past and am also interested. Unfortunately, people were saying there really wasn't anything great out there.
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Sep 16, 2014 17:41
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:I can enjoy that to some degree (I really liked Andre: Life and Legend, which sources a bunch of old stories about Andre from various shoot interviews and wrestler autobiographies) but it's so weird to do a history of pro wrestling that focuses on individual mythology. These were real people with real, legitimate flaws, and he glosses over those, from Macho Man to Fabulous Moolah (he also doesn't cover some really, really important figures in wrestling). Andre: Life and Legend is actually more critical of Andre as a person that Shoemaker is. It's not a comprehensive history of pro wrestling though, it's a book of eulogies for dead wrestlers.
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Sep 16, 2014 17:52
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Mechafunkzilla posted:It's not a comprehensive history of pro wrestling though, it's a book of eulogies for dead wrestlers. That's not immediately obvious, especially since the book starts out with pre-Gold Dust Trio history and does not eulogize anyone from that era.
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Sep 16, 2014 18:00
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Why is the logo on Bret Hart's singlet always off center? I keep thinking it's a mistake, but it's on all of his tights.
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Sep 16, 2014 18:43
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Liar Lyre posted:Why is the logo on Bret Hart's singlet always off center? I keep thinking it's a mistake, but it's on all of his tights. It's a heart. It's meant to be placed where a heart would be (yes, I know, it's way too low, and the heart isn't really that far to the left).
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Sep 16, 2014 18:47
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Diabolik900 posted:It's a heart. It's meant to be placed where a heart would be (yes, I know, it's way too low, and the heart isn't really that far to the left). Bret's heart sits closer to his bladder because that's where the piss comes from.
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Sep 16, 2014 19:02
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Red posted:Davey Boy Smith. Bret tells the funny story about Summerslam in his shoot interview (And he writes about it) "I'm fooked Bret, I'm fooked". What I will say though is that Davey Boy is a lot more capable in that match than people gave him credit for. I'm not saying it's self aggrandizing on Bret's part, but he's less hosed (Fooked) than history would have you believe. His return to WWF in the Attitude Era is rough going though. On the AEPodcast they say it's Randy The Ram come to life, and they're not that far off. He's a man out of shape and out of time. He can't keep up with the quicker pace of the matches and has nothing to his character. He's basically a glorified jobber. The crowd isn't in to him, even at the UK PPV (Where he runs around demanding a title shot - no loving chance).
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Sep 16, 2014 19:03
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What do ECW fans watch nowadays?
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Sep 16, 2014 21:17
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omgomgomg posted:What do ECW fans watch nowadays? Czw
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Sep 16, 2014 21:20
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DrVenkman posted:Bret tells the funny story about Summerslam in his shoot interview (And he writes about it) "I'm fooked Bret, I'm fooked". What I will say though is that Davey Boy is a lot more capable in that match than people gave him credit for. I'm not saying it's self aggrandizing on Bret's part, but he's less hosed (Fooked) than history would have you believe. Summerslam '92 is the classic example of a carry, Bret is doing all the work and setting up all of the pacing. It has technical stuff going on that is like ten years ahead of most of WWF at the time, but that's Bret for you.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:29
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omgomgomg posted:What do ECW fans watch nowadays? TNA
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Sep 16, 2014 21:36
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i think a lot of oldschool ecw fans have just fallen out of wrestling, like most fans from the boom period
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Sep 16, 2014 22:02
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omgomgomg posted:What do ECW fans watch nowadays? Their neighbor kicking his dog.
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Sep 16, 2014 22:52
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omgomgomg posted:What do ECW fans watch nowadays? ICW
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Sep 17, 2014 00:18
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Cardboard Box posted:i think a lot of oldschool ecw fans have just fallen out of wrestling, like most fans from the boom period Old-school ECW crowds were filled with drunken frat boys (serious, I was watching some ECW PPVs on the Network and drat were there a lot of them; I forgot how Tommy Hilfiger shirts were the mark of a frat at the time) so, yeah, they were casual watchers who left when the boom was over. The holdouts you see in CZW crowds or other indie promotions, maybe some TNA on the side.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:55
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I know its probably been answered before, but why has there been a three person booth in the WWE for the last few years?
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Sep 17, 2014 01:48
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Sep 17, 2014 01:50
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triplexpac posted:On the flipside, I'm really happy Bret Hart turned out okay. I mean sure he's a bit of an rear end in a top hat, but in the grand scheme of pro wrestling he has processed a lot of the poo poo that he was dealing with in a mature way. I'm glad it's 2014 and Bret Hart has been popping up here and there on WWE TV for nearly 4 years now. 
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Sep 17, 2014 02:04
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The Big Show seems to be about a million times happier and healthier now that he's appearing less frequently. Always comes out with a smile and seems to be physically in better shape than he's been in, in a while.
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Sep 17, 2014 05:30
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Whose films would you rather watch, the Miz or Val Venis
Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 05:36
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Red posted:and his son (who's actually not bad at all) is into the same stupid poo poo. Not that I'm doubting you, but where have you heard about this?
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Sep 17, 2014 05:53
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So I'm watching NXT, and Sin Cara seems familiar. They said he used to wrestle on the main WWE shows, he isn't the one who has to use the low light settings to wrestle, is he? He seems like a pretty good lucha. So why did he go from there to NXT?
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Sep 17, 2014 06:18
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HogX posted:So I'm watching NXT, and Sin Cara seems familiar. They said he used to wrestle on the main WWE shows, he isn't the one who has to use the low light settings to wrestle, is he? He seems like a pretty good lucha. So why did he go from there to NXT? He's the former Hunico who now plays Sin Cara. He's really slow and pretty sloppy for a high flyer, he's much better when he doesn't have to play Sin Cara and can just do mat work.
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Sep 17, 2014 06:23
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I'd love to see Cara do more mat stuff now that we have Kalisto to do the flippy poo poo
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Sep 17, 2014 06:39
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Hunico had a much better rudo style when he was working as fake Sin Cara than when he was trying to push himself to go more high-flying stuff. He's bulky, not tiny like original Sin Cara and Kalisto.
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Sep 17, 2014 06:45
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I find their story so hilariously  . Both started out in Mexico as 'Mistico', but Mistico got more popular so the other one became Hunico. Mistico went to WWE under a mask and skipped developmental. Hunico didn't skip developmental and wrestled in FCW under a mask. Mistico as Sin Cara debuts, Hunico as fake Sin Cara debuts, they feud over the mask and name, Hunico dicks around midcard and tag division for a while then goes back down to developmental, Sin Cara botches a lot and has a bad attitude so he gets fired, and Hunico becomes Sin Cara on the main roster. Then he's sent back to NXT again to tag with Kalisto, who is basically everything Mistico was supposed to be.
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Sep 17, 2014 08:28
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sticklefifer posted:I find their story so hilariously Hunico did use the name "Mistico" but he used it on the Mexican indies. The famous Mistico was given the name and superhero gimmick by CMLL to basically be what John Cena is in WWE except Mistico lost even less frequently than Cena. CMLL owned the trademark for Mistico so Hunico ended up as Incognito, AKA the most boring high flying luchadore in the history of the indies. He then signed with WWE where he got the Hunico gimmick.
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Sep 17, 2014 08:33
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Don't forget that when he went back to Mexico they already made another Mistico so he's now Myzteziz. Except when he's Sin Cara which he says is when he's not working for AAA in Mexico, even though the Sin Cara name/mask aren't known in Mexico and he doesn't own it either. Konnan says Mistico is a nice guy but kinda dumb.
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Sep 17, 2014 08:34
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