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TychoCelchuuu posted:You're going to have to tell us what you're doing before we can tell you what you're doing wrong. ETA: Added quote for context.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:28
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 13:16 |
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The longer you let the dough mature, the more sour flavor you will develop. A few pointers for more consistent results: measure your ingredients by weight, not volume. A few dollars for a digital scale will pay huge dividends. Second, try cooking your bread in a dutch oven (20 minutes covered at 450, 25 uncovered works well for me). The covered vessel traps steam and helps you get a good rise. Here's a good formula for sourdough from Peter Reinhardt's The Bread Baker's Apprentice. preferment 4 oz of starter 4.5 oz of flour 2 oz of water Final Dough 20.25 oz flour .5 oz salt 14 oz water Mix preferment together the evening before you bake, allow to ferment at room temperature for four hours, then allow to finish overnight in the fridge. The longer you let this ferment the more sour it will become. The next morning, take the preferment out of the fridge and allow to come up to room temperature (about an hour). mix with remaining ingredients for the final dough (usually easier to add water and break up the preferment before adding flour). Knead well in stand mixer or by hand. Allow to bulk ferment in a covered oiled bowl for four hours. Divide and shape. Allow to proof for 2-3 hours until the dough rebounds slowly and leaves a dent when poked. If it rebounds quickly and feels snappy, you need more time. If it does not rebound at all, you went too long, reshape and try again. For the most part, it is a lot easier to underproof a loaf than overproof, err on more time than less. Bake in a dutch oven, on a stone, or with whatever you got at 450 for 40-45 minutes (if you divided the dough in two, if you are making smaller loafs, should take less time). Make sure your oven is pre-heated well, set it as high as it will go at least an hour before you bake. Peter's recipes are pretty reliable, but I wish he'd use metric.
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Sep 18, 2014 02:15
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So just give it more time to ferment and rise, easy enough. Haven't got a dutch oven here, just been using a broiler pan, but will try that recipe and method when I visit my parents this weekend.
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Sep 18, 2014 05:43
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darthbob88 posted:So just give it more time to ferment and rise, easy enough. Haven't got a dutch oven here, just been using a broiler pan, but will try that recipe and method when I visit my parents this weekend. Long refreshes/ferments/proofs certainly give better results. Plus they're actually less stressful with a bit of planning. I used to scramble to try and bake a loaf in a single day: get up early and refresh, only give it three hours refresh, make the dough, then only three hours to ferment, then shape and proof for maybe two hours max. All the time I'm trying to find warm places to keep the dough to speed things up. And I can't go out all day as I keep having to look after it. Eventually at the end on the day I'd have spent all day looking after this loaf, and ended up with this loaf that was flat, with a pretty dense crumb, and not that flavourful. Plus it's past dinner time so I didn't even get to taste it properly! Now I spread out things out over multiple days and it's much less stressful and gives much better results. I get my best results when I refresh my starter in the evening and leave it out (covered) on the dining room table overnight. Then the next day I'll autolyze the flour and water, and go do something else for 30 minutes. Then I'll make the dough and knead in the mixer for five minutes, then put aside to ferment for at least four hours, stretching & folding four times when I get the chance. Then I shape, and leave it for another hour or so before popping it in the fridge overnight. On the third day I take it out of the fridge then switch the oven on. An hour later the oven is ready for my bread, and I'll have it baked and cooled in time for lunch.
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Sep 18, 2014 20:55
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I'm having problems getting my dough to rise (no innuendo in this sentence I swear). I'm making Pretzels. So, here's what I'm doing. I'll mix 1 Tbsp Sugar + 2 Teaspoons salt in 1.5 cups of warm (110 to 115 degrees F) water. Then I'll stir it a bit, just to dissolve the salt and sugar. Then I add 1 package of Fleischmann's active dry yeast. It proofs just fine. Then add flour, melted butter, and knead it. Then I transfer the mixture to a clean bowl, and wrap the bowl in saran wrap for about an hour. But then... nothing. It doesn't expand in size. What am I missing/doing wrong? It's odd because when I roll dough and complete the recipe, the dough rises IN THE OVEN just fine. But no rising action while it's sitting in the bowl for an hour. melon cat fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 19, 2014 23:58
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melon cat posted:I'm having problems getting my dough to rise (no innuendo in this sentence I swear). I'm making Pretzels. How warm is it? Try a longer rise. With butter and salt rising will be retarded.
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Sep 20, 2014 08:30
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melon cat posted:Then I add 1 package of Fleischmann's active dry yeast. It proofs just fine. Then add flour, melted butter, and knead it. I'm not quite following this part. "Proof" normally refers to the final rise, and I think that's what's confusing me. Do you mean you're adding the active dry yeast, letting it activate, then adding the flour & butter and kneading? If so that's fine. If you mean you add the active dry yeast, then the flour & butter and knead, then your problem is probably that you're not activating the active dry yeast. It's a bloody confusing name: active dry yeast must be activated (mixed with warm liquid and left for five minutes before using). Instant yeast can just be mixed in (and from what I can tell there aren't any drawbacks to using it over active dry). If you're activating the yeast, and not seeing a good rise in the bowl, then as therattle says, rise it longer, or put it somewhere warmer. Personally I've never seen dough double in size within an hour. Maybe that works if you've got a warm airing cupboard or proofing drawer, but for me it's just room temperature and it always takes longer.
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Sep 20, 2014 14:56
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KuroMayuri posted:I'm not quite following this part. "Proof" normally refers to the final rise, and I think that's what's confusing me.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:10
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I just plopped a good hunk of no-knead bread dough in an oiled 9x13 to rise and gave it the focaccia treatment with finger docking/oiling the top/salt/oregano/sliced oil cured olives and it is in the oven right now. How terribly could it possibly come out? E: It has puffed up hilariously and will either become the next Blob and ravage the Northcountry or finally brown enough to be edible and serve as something with no description. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 18:42
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therattle posted:How warm is it? Try a longer rise. With butter and salt rising will be retarded. KuroMayuri posted:Do you mean you're adding the active dry yeast, letting it activate, then adding the flour & butter and kneading?
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Sep 20, 2014 18:54
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TychoCelchuuu posted:"Proof" also refers to blooming the yeast in water to "prove" the yeast is alive. melon cat posted:Yes. you hit it right on the nose, there. That's exactly what I'm doing! So how much longer would you recommend letting it sit? 2 hours instead of only the one, maybe? And of course doubling in size is hard to judge. America's Test Kitchen suggests using a tall jar, rather than a wide bowl, to help judge it. Like a lot of bread making, you have to do it lots of times and eventually you just get a feeling for it. I know that's not the advice you're looking for, but... erm... sorry. I didn't like finding out there's no simple rules for bread either... but I did enjoy eating all the test breads along the way 
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Sep 20, 2014 20:00
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melon cat posted:It's at room temperature, usually. I'll try skipping the salt, first. What? No. Don't skip the salt. Bread without salt is awful.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:15
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Focaccia of Poor Decisions Update: I think the bottom crust has permanently fused to the Pyrex, the olives were well overdone by the time it finished baking, and it had the single most shattering top crust I have ever made. Ripped it out of the pan and brushed the withered olives off and it is delicious with an olive oil/cruchsed garlic/red pepper flake/salt/balsamic vinegar dip. Well, what is left of it after nearly wrecking two spatulas getting the motherfucker out.
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Sep 20, 2014 21:34
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melon cat posted:It's at room temperature, usually. I'll try skipping the salt, first. What's the science behind butter/salt messing with the rising? Room temp is an incredibly vague term. I don't know what your room temperature is!
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Sep 20, 2014 23:22
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 Practically the only thing every BBQ region in the US agrees on is that wonder bread is the ideal bread for smoked meat. As such, I've been planning a wonder bread clone for a while and today's results were pretty good. Made some dinner rolls with the excess dough, too. Used a mix of bread flour and little semolina, whole milk, and goat milk powder. Really nice, small and uniform crumb. Really few blisters. Baked it in a pullman pan so that it came out crustless. May take the semolina out entirely as I feel like the bread could be springier, maybe I could up the milkfat? Or use a more gluten rich flour? Any advice is happily taken. Should pick up the liquids from smoked meat, pickle brine, and sauce really well. Woof! Woof! fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 00:23
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Woof! Woof! posted:
Try making a roux with a portion of the flour and water and milk, then cook it until it's a sticky paste. Use that as a preferment. This technique is used in China and notably in Hokkaido milk bread, from Japan. If you still want more wonder breadness, dough enhancer will get you the texture you want.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:57
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Everybody, if think "oh high hydration dough is weird and hard to work with" FUCKIN WORK WITH IT. edit: holy loving tablebreaking sorry  This is the best bread I have ever made and it's close to 90% hydration, half and half whole wheat and white, and brushed with roasted garlic pesto. Nicol Bolas fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 03:57
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Nicol Bolas posted:Everybody, if think "oh high hydration dough is weird and hard to work with" FUCKIN WORK WITH IT. I'm pretty sure that you can knead a 200% hydration loaf into submission, so really, just give it time if your foccacia or whatever is too wet. An autolyse also helps quite a bit.
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Sep 21, 2014 04:26
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Try making a roux with a portion of the flour and water and milk, then cook it until it's a sticky paste. Use that as a preferment. This technique is used in China and notably in Hokkaido milk bread, from Japan. If you still want more wonder breadness, dough enhancer will get you the texture you want. Woah, that's crazy. I definitely will try this. Also looked up Hokkaido Milk Bread and that's fascinating. Definitely want to make something with that kind of a texture.
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Sep 21, 2014 05:53
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le capitan posted:That looks amazing!! Now make bread bowls and clam chowder plz. K'thnkz To quote Wesley, as you wish:  Well except it's bloody impossible to get clams here in the UK, so it's just a fish chowder. And it was Sourdough Surprises weekend, so I also made sourdough cornbread:  Plus I made sourdough waffles to cure a handover:  And sourdough bee string cake... because I didn't get enough calories from the rest of my baking :S 
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Sep 21, 2014 21:39
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^^^ Those waffles look delicious! Here's my latest loaf using this recipe.    I cooked it in my dutch oven, taking off the cover for the last 15 minutes and it came out perfect! Was a total hit with the household.
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Sep 22, 2014 02:26
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darthbob88 posted:So just give it more time to ferment and rise, easy enough. Haven't got a dutch oven here, just been using a broiler pan, but will try that recipe and method when I visit my parents this weekend. Finally got around to this, so trip report. Followed PatMarshall's recipe, excepting a lack of precision WRT to measuring and reduced ferment/rise times, and made two loaves. One of them was baked in the dutch oven, and turned out marvelously. Locking the steam in means the crust is tender though still chewy, and it's light and fluffy after expanding so long. Unfortunately, it still doesn't have any sourdough flavor and is lacking in big bubbles, but that's most likely because I only let it rise for an hour or two each time, so it couldn't ferment as much as it should.   The other I didn't get pictures of because I believe one of the dogs ate it while we were out, but it was cooked on a cookie sheet, and wound up with a much harder crust, which my mother attempted to mellow by painting it with butter. And yes, that may have been why the dog grabbed it. Conclusion: Baking in a dutch oven does make for better sourdough. ETA: Just realized another possible reason I'd make better bread at my parents house. I'm currently living in the Seatac area, while my parents live 200 miles south. Of course yeast will grow better and bread will rise more in a warmer climate. darthbob88 fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 04:53
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Woof! Woof! - this the enriched bread I make regularly for a soft white bread. For a 13 x 4 x 4 pullman loaf: 225 g milk 30-40 g butter 80 g egg (or just 2 eggs and add more flour if needed) 520 g flour 30 g potato flour 40-60 g sugar 1 Tb salt 3 3/4 tsp instant yeast Mix, ferment, shape, proof. Bake at 350 F 30-40 minutes, until internal temp is 195 Sometimes I'll replace 100 g each of the milk and flour with 200 g of sourdough starter.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:23
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What diameter dutch oven do you guys use? I'm looking for one currently. I took a look at Le Creuset stuff but this poo poo is so loving expensive it's unbelievable...
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Sep 23, 2014 10:08
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Serious eats recommends http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009JKG9M/ref=pe_385040_121528360_TE_dp_9
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Sep 23, 2014 14:58
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I use staub. But you should consider a römertopf - I believe you can get equally good, or better results, and they're cheaper
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Sep 23, 2014 18:59
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I got this one for $40 at Bed Bath and Beyond http://www.amazon.com/Emerilware-En...eril+dutch+oven
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Sep 23, 2014 21:06
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I own this one and it works pretty great. I was eyeballing one of these though cause it just looks cool for making oblong loaves. 
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Sep 24, 2014 08:13
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Thanks guys, I'll take a look
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Sep 24, 2014 08:35
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Nobody was posting here, so I think I'm allowed to post some random weekend baking. I made sourdough baguettes.  They had good crumb.  We made them into 'artisan' fish finger sandwiches.  We enjoyed them.
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Oct 4, 2014 20:53
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Nibblet posted:I own this one and it works pretty great. I see yours is 30cm wide. I found one not very expensive but it's 24cm wide (approx 9.5 inches) think it would do or is it too small?
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Oct 5, 2014 14:44
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Le0 posted:I see yours is 30cm wide. I found one not very expensive but it's 24cm wide (approx 9.5 inches) think it would do or is it too small? 24cm might be a push for a 1kg (2lb) loaf, although it might help give a nice high loaf due to the restricted width. However I will say that if you're looking at something purely for bread, the high sides of both of those will make it awkward to get the dough into them without misshaping or burning yourself. I highly recommend La Cloche for round loaves, and I'm planning on getting one of these for oblong ones, although the sides are higher than I'd like. But that's just for pure bread uses. If you don't have a Dutch oven / casserole, I'd advise getting one of those first. You can use it for bread and casseroles and all sorts, much more versatile.
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Oct 5, 2014 15:55
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Le0 posted:I see yours is 30cm wide. I found one not very expensive but it's 24cm wide (approx 9.5 inches) think it would do or is it too small? Personally, I think 24cm would be too small. But I usually have my dough proofing in a basket and then just up-end it into my piping hot dutch oven and my aim isn't really all that great. For me, the wider the opening, the better chance I have of landing the dough in the center. But again, that's just me. If you plan on using other methods or use smaller rounds of dough, I think that size would be fine. And like KuroMayuri said, it's always nice to have for other uses too.
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Oct 5, 2014 18:13
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KuroMayuri posted:24cm might be a push for a 1kg (2lb) loaf, although it might help give a nice high loaf due to the restricted width. I also have a La Cloche, which is brilliant. Highly recommended if you bake often.
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Oct 5, 2014 18:52
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I think I've worked out what's wrong with my sourdough starter. I finally laid hands on a copy of Peter Reinhardt's The Bread Baker's Apprentice, and it mentions that you're supposed to feed your culture high-gluten flour, preferably unbleached whole wheat, and chlorine-free water. As opposed to the bleached flour and chlorinated tap water I've been giving mine. Whoops. Will try making another batch or two with this starter, but if it doesn't work out, I'll start a new culture and do it properly.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:11
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I'm planning on making up some rich dough rolls for Thanksgiving but I'd like to make the dough the day before and bake early the day of. Best to put it in the fridge for the first or second (after forming) rise? Does it matter?
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Oct 10, 2014 22:00
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ChetReckless posted:I'm planning on making up some rich dough rolls for Thanksgiving but I'd like to make the dough the day before and bake early the day of. Best to put it in the fridge for the first or second (after forming) rise? Does it matter? I always proof in the fridge after forming with my sourdough. Just take out for an hour, while the oven heats up, before baking in the morning. Works great... but I'd love to know if there's a better time to fridge it.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:06
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KuroMayuri posted:I always proof in the fridge after forming with my sourdough. Just take out for an hour, while the oven heats up, before baking in the morning. Works great... but I'd love to know if there's a better time to fridge it. I did exactly this and it turned out pretty well. Thanks for the reassurance.
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Oct 13, 2014 02:49
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darthbob88 posted:I think I've worked out what's wrong with my sourdough starter. I finally laid hands on a copy of Peter Reinhardt's The Bread Baker's Apprentice, and it mentions that you're supposed to feed your culture high-gluten flour, preferably unbleached whole wheat, and chlorine-free water. As opposed to the bleached flour and chlorinated tap water I've been giving mine. Whoops. Will try making another batch or two with this starter, but if it doesn't work out, I'll start a new culture and do it properly. You don't have to make a whole loaf of bread to see if your starter is active. It wouldn't hurt (other than time I suppose) to just start feeding the starter you have with high-gluten bread flour and spring water (I just get the 3 gal jugs for a buck at the grocery store). It should double within 3-4 hrs at room temperature (around 70F). If it doesn't, it's not active enough for a 3-4 hr rise. Leave it out a little longer, discard some, and feed again until it does. If it was in the refrigerator, remember to allow an hour or so to come up to room temp before feeding, or add an hour to starter rise time. Just make sure your starter doubles in volume in a reasonable amount of time, just like you would for a loaf. Sourdough starter is the same thing as a loaf of sourdough bread at the same hydration (without salt I suppose), just a much smaller volume. Once you've got that, move on to wasting flour figuring out how to properly shape loaves, proper oven spring, etc (and halve your recipe to save some money there too) I went through the same thing!
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Oct 13, 2014 04:09
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 13:16 |
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dedian posted:Sourdough starter is the same thing as a loaf of sourdough bread at the same hydration (without salt I suppose), just a much smaller volume. As illustrated by this recipe from the GWS wiki. Edit: poo poo, didn't notice that was in response to me. The main reason I was going to make a loaf to test my culture was that I was halfway through making that batch when I discovered what I'd done wrong. I've been feeding it right since that incident, and while it's still not as vigorous as I'd like, it grows. Suspect the cold isn't doing my culture any favors. Going to try making another batch tomorrow, expect it'll turn out better than the last did. I left it in the fridge to ferment and rise overnight, so it was very flavorful, and rose adequately, with a nice light crumb, but I left it in the oven too long and it came out with a knife-breaking crust. darthbob88 fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 03:27
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