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Simian_Prime posted:Can the Hollow be used to play a Frankenstein monster, or is that more The Ghoul's territory? I personally think that the Hollow might be a better fit for Frankenstein's monster than the Ghoul. Even though the Ghoul has the move for being stitched together from multiple parts, its main mechanical effect is giving you a new Hunger. The Hollow's schtick of trying to find an identity and humanity seems to be more in line with Frankenstein's monster than the Ghoul's hunger.
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Sep 20, 2014 19:11
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Ratpick posted:Alternately I'd go with the Watchful Golem route of a character obsessed with another character (because that character reminds the Ghoul of the warmth of life and love and poo poo) in a really creepy fashion. Again, it's creepy and unsympathetic, but it's a relatable kind of unsympathetic, and one that lends itself to more nuanced drama than "My character is a murderous cannibal." A different spin on this would be taking Watchful Golem but playing up the fact that the Ghoul is virtually impossible to kill. Even though they might want to die. Perhaps the Ghoul is a cursed guardian, or someone who claimed immortality and now hungers for those she thinks might finally be able to kill her. If my tabletop group runs Monsterhearts again, I'd consider using the cursed guardian interpretation as an NPC tasked with protecting someone whether they like it or not. Perhaps a PC, perhaps an important NPC. Either way, anyone who wants to deal with the character must reckon with their sentinel - a sentinel they may not have a choice about having.
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Sep 20, 2014 19:15
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Ratpick posted:Alternately I'd go with the Watchful Golem route of a character obsessed with another character (because that character reminds the Ghoul of the warmth of life and love and poo poo) in a really creepy fashion. Again, it's creepy and unsympathetic, but it's a relatable kind of unsympathetic, and one that lends itself to more nuanced drama than "My character is a murderous cannibal." I do wish there was a Golem playbook based around being laser-focused on one particular person; the Ghoul and Hollow get close but I feel like their other moves and such get in the way.
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Sep 20, 2014 19:20
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Ratpick posted:Yeah, if I were ever to bring a Ghoul to the table, I'd rather play a high Cold kind of Ghoul who tormented people they didn't like emotionally instead of being a merciless killer. That said, another angle I like for the Ghoul is the actually sympathetic guy or gal who just happens to be in the unfortunate situation of having an unnatural hunger they must sate. If you play it right you can make the Ghoul's drama about constantly fighting their hunger instead of relishing it. As an alcoholism/drug addiction metaphor it's interesting, though I don't know if it'd work perfectly since they do have to sate it...
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Sep 20, 2014 19:26
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Cat Army 
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Simian_Prime posted:Can the Hollow be used to play a Frankenstein monster, or is that more The Ghoul's territory? I think that's actually one of the stated influences on the Hollow, so yeah, you could definitely do Frankenstein's Monster.
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Sep 20, 2014 19:34
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Goddamn, all of this really makes me want to play Monsterhearts, but in my group, one of our longtime players hates the idea of it and always vetoes it when it comes up. 
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Sep 20, 2014 19:35
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Night10194 posted:Goddamn, all of this really makes me want to play Monsterhearts, but in my group, one of our longtime players hates the idea of it and always vetoes it when it comes up. So he gets a vacation if literally everyone else wants to play it.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:12
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What is it about people wanting to play angsty messes?
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Sep 20, 2014 20:45
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:What is it about people wanting to play angsty messes? It gets a little old always playing more adventurous stories. Sometimes you'd like to settle in for interpersonal drama stuff. And the problem is of the two groups I'm in, neither has enough people to really play something like MH properly if we're down one (or a couple, in the other group, that one's got two guys who can't stand the idea).
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Sep 20, 2014 20:52
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Night10194 posted:It gets a little old always playing more adventurous stories. Sometimes you'd like to settle in for interpersonal drama stuff. And the problem is of the two groups I'm in, neither has enough people to really play something like MH properly if we're down one (or a couple, in the other group, that one's got two guys who can't stand the idea). It can also be a fun change of pace from a more serious, epic storyline to just play dumb, melodramatic teenagers where the optimal course of action is whatever would be most dramatic at that point. You certainly could play Monsterhearts with a straight face, but I can't imagine why you would want to.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:54
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Considering that among the people who thought it sounded fun I pitched it as 'Twilight but not so terrible' I doubt we'd be playing it that straight.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:55
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I pitched it as 'The Dresden Files: the High School Years' to my gaming group, and we played a session of it last week as a break from our Rogue Trader campaign. It was good fun, up until the Infernal got just about everyone killed and the Ghost then murdered her in cold blood.
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Sep 20, 2014 21:01
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Davin Valkri posted:I think that's actually one of the stated influences on the Hollow, so yeah, you could definitely do Frankenstein's Monster. Reading through some of those moves, you could easily play teenage Roy Batty.
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Sep 20, 2014 21:04
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:What is it about people wanting to play angsty messes? It's fun. Like, last time you made a comment similar to this you got some more detailed answers, and those apparently didn't satisfy you, so I guess you're just going to need to take our word for it here.
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Sep 20, 2014 21:33
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:What is it about people wanting to play angsty messes? Like Gaz said, it's fun. For my part it lets me play up a certain aesthetic that's frowned upon in more actiony games, and Monsterhearts is much better about its subject matter than other games that sell themselves as deep and mature. Like, even when playing up maximum silly dumb teenage clusterfuck, it feels a lot more solid and sure about what it wants to do.
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Sep 20, 2014 22:24
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Night10194 posted:It gets a little old always playing more adventurous stories. Sometimes you'd like to settle in for interpersonal drama stuff. And the problem is of the two groups I'm in, neither has enough people to really play something like MH properly if we're down one (or a couple, in the other group, that one's got two guys who can't stand the idea). How many players are we talking who would be down for a game of Monsterhearts? 'Cause my personal experience has shown that three players is already enough for Monsterhearts, and might even be optimal because given the fact that Monsterhearts isn't really group oriented not all player characters will be present for each scene. With three players, if you get a nice rotation going, no player should have to stay on the sidelines for longer than a scene at a time. I understand the feelings of those players of yours who won't touch Monsterhearts, but seriously, if you want to try it out get yourself a group together from all of those players you know who'd like to give it a shot. 
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Sep 20, 2014 22:28
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It's time for the next bit of the Tome of Magic not as good as the Binder chapter but it's still kind of neat.  The shadow magic chapter opens up with a fairly standard nihilist treatise. "Before creation, darkness was all" "The brightest of suns must dim and gutter." "Day may banish night but night always returns" "Darkness is the only truly eternal concept, the ultimate force, the final result of every effort, and therefore it is the strongest." Basically standard stuff you'd hear out of a teenager who just discovered black jeans. This is kind of odd, because that's not what shadow magic is. Sure it's shadow but shadow magic is all about sympathy and reflection. Sympathy is standard voodoo stuff, I take a lock of your hair and it gives me power over you. I do something to your shadow then something happens to the person that is casting that shadow. That kind of thing. Reflection is the magical equivalent of Newton's third law. For every action there must be an opposite. But in most cases it's not really a thing that's noticed. Pelor doesn't notice when one of his clerics casts cure serious wounds because he's just that powerful. The Plane of Fire doesn't give two shits that you pulled out some fire to cast fireball. Shadow magic uses these effects, creating strength from weakness and darkness from light. The most obvious kinds of shadow magic that you'll find outside of this book are Darkness spells and Illusion magic that uses shadowstuff, like shades. Negative energy isn't shadow magic no matter how much people may want it to be. and Shadowdancers might be shadow mages but the jury's still out on that one. but we don't have to settle for that.  The Shadowcaster “Behind the fire, between the worlds, in all the empty spaces, at the end of all things, we are there. Matter, light, life—these things are fleeting. Shadow, only shadow, is eternal.” —Eddas Coradran, Lord of the First House, Parliament of Shadows I love the subtle details in the art in this chapter, take a closer look at her shadow and what it's doing. Anyways, Shadowcasters are a 20 level casting class with most of what that entails, they've got 2+int skills, 1/2th BAB progression, simple weapon proficiency and no armor proficiency. They do however get good fort and will and a d6 hit die, which is good I suppose. The major difference is that a shadowcaster only learns one spell(known as a Mystery) per level, and they can only cast those spells once per day. They get a few cantrips (known as fundamentals) that they can cast more often but the cantrips aren't anything earthshattering. They're also a Multiple attribute dependent casting class. You need to have an intelligence equal to 10+ the mystery level to be able to cast a mystery, and the save DC is 10+ Mystery Level + your cha mod. There are three 'classes' of Mystery, Apprentice(Governing levels 1-3) Initiate(Levels 4-6) and master(Levels 7-9) and each class of mystery is further subdivided into paths. Each path has one spell of each level, and to select the higher level path mysteries you must know all the lower level ones. Also to learn a 2nd level mystery you must know two first level ones, and to learn a 3rd level you must know two 2nd level ones. This restriction isn't maintained between categories, meaning you can pick a 4th level Mystery as soon as you have access to it. You can select a mystery more than once if you want to cast it more times per day but this doesn't count extra towards gaining access to higher level mysteries. Also: as you gain access to higher tiers of mysteries, the lower level ones get easier to cast. Once you get access to 4th level Mysteries, your 1-3rd level become spell like abilities instead of spells, meaning they no longer have somatic components, and you can cast each one you know twice per day. Once you gain access to 7th level mysteries your 4-6th level mysteries become spell like abilities and get an extra use, and your 1-3rd level mysteries gain an extra use and become Supernatural abilities. And your fundamentals gain an unlimited number of uses as well. And because this wasn't confusing enough, you gain bonus feats equal to half the number of paths you have access to, incentivising you to select Mysteries across a bunch of paths, but meaning that you will never have access to the spells that would make those feats worthwhile. You also gain darkvision and your close association to shadow slowly supplants your biological functions eventually meaning you don't need to eat, sleep, or breathe. But that doesn't really make up for the fact that you start out really really weak and you need to have a complete 20 level roadmap set out from level 1 to figure out how to make your class function. There are ways to game the system and abuse the functionality of mysteries but sometimes it doesn't really seem worth it. I mean sure some of the mysteries are very good but you only get 20 of them and you only get one shot of your very best stuff. They're all the inflexability of a Sorcerer's with fewer spell slots than a universalist wizard. There's some unofficial errata from the author that makes the class slightly better, and some other unofficial errata from wotc's lead playtester at the time that makes the class much better, but as written there's little reason to play a shadowcaster apart from flavor. That said, the flavor you do get is pretty good. There's a sidebar here mentioning that a good way to emphasize the 'alien' nature of shadow magic is to allow an arcane caster to multiclass into shadowcaster and have it slowly start 'eating' their wizard levels and turning them into shadowcaster levels. Which is interesting but it sounds like all it would do was make you even weaker for a few levels before you get 'stronger' but still not as strong as a wizard would be. Feats There are a few "Metashadow" feats that are more or less what you'd expect them to be. Save that they're once per day and don't increase the Mystery level. Empower, Enlarge, Extend, Maximize, Quicken, and Still are here. Though still by definition only affects Mysteries cast as spells. The two interesting Metashadow feats are Line of Shadow which lets you ignore line of sight and effect as long as you have seen them within a number of rounds equal to your int bonus, and they get a bonus on any save required equal to your int mod. Though the spell can't require an attack roll. There's also Reach Mystery which turns a range of touch into a 30 foot ray. Path Focus, Greater Path Focus, and Nocturnal Caster are semi-related. Path and Greater Path increase the caster level and save DC of spells of a certain path by 1 each, and Nocturnal caster increases your caster level for a path (or school of magic, anyone can take the feat if they can cast a spell with the darkness descriptor) as long as it is night time. Ambient light doesn't matter it's literally the time of day. That done, we can get into the more interesting feats. Shadow Cast is one of my favorites, for the low low prices of 5 ranks in concentration and 1 level of shadowcaster, you can move your shadow to a square adjacent to you and have it cast the spell. If enemies don't threaten that square you don't provoke attacks of opportunity for casting spells or Spell like abilities. Shadow Familiar gives shadowcasters access to a familiar with the dark template that's otherwise identical to a wizard's familiar. Shadow reflection requires that you be able to cast one of two level 3 Mysteries, but it gives enemies a 50% miss chance to hit you with AoOs, which you probably won't be provoking many of if you took Shadow Cast. Shadow Vision requires 15 Wis (unlikely, considering you need int, cha, and dex to be relatively high) and for you to know either a specific 1st level mystery or 7th level mystery(  ), in return you can spend a move action while you are within shadowy illumination or darkness to learn the number and direction of all creatures that are within 20 feet of you and also in shadowy illumination or darkness. This doesn't actually let you target anyone so it seems like a lot of work to get basically nothing out of it.Finally there's the feat that kind of breaks the math, Favored Mystery favored mystery knocks the mystery down a tier, effectively. Meaning that if you took it for a master path Mystery, you could cast that Mystery twice per day as a spell like ability. If you really really wanted to you could take one spell with every single one of your 9th level mystery picks and get access to the "Make a will save or die and I reanimate your corpse as my slave" spell 8 times per day. Prestige Classes Shadowcasters can classify for a spellcasting prestige class as long as it only requires a non-specific caster level or access to spells of a certain level. If it specifies arcane or divine the Shadowcaster is out.  Child of Night “Watch and read until the coming of final night—it will not avail you. To comprehend the magnificent and empty beauty of darkness, it is not enough to study shadow; you must become shadow.” —Lara Bethendé, former Lady of the Second House, Parliament of Shadows, now renegade The Child of Night is an alternate progression for the Shadowcaster that other casters can get access to as long as they can cast shadow spells. It's only real requirement is 8 ranks of Know: Planes and Know:Arcana and the fact that you must have visited the plane of shadow at least once. As you progress you become more epheremal and translucent(Gaining a bonus equal to your class level on hide checks) Eventually you can cast Blur a few times per day before becoming a permanent effect at 8th level, and at 10th level you can cast displacement twice per day. You also gain the shadowcasters "don't need to eat drink or sleep" abilities, but at a faster rate. Gain a decent amount of Cold resistance, and can flat out turn incorporeal for a minute once per day as a capstone ability. The only thing you're giving up is access to bonus feats, the eventual unlimited usage of fundamentals, and one level of spellcasting. If you're wanting to be ridiculously sneaky you could do worse.  Master of Shadow “What need have I of living servants when the shadows themselvesrise up at my command?” —Thanielle Tiergun, Duchess of Ohr This class builds entirely off the Shadow Familiar feat. Upon taking your first level of this class it splits open and a medium shadow elemental rises up out of it, ready to do your bidding. It loses all benefits of being your familiar (including the pesky lose XP if you die thing) and gains some of it's own bonuses more on par with a druid's animal companion. Oh and you gain a d8 hit die for these levels, which is nice considering all you're giving up is a level of spellcasting and the bonus feats/eat-sleep-breathe stuff. You can spend your standard action to give your elemental additional abilities for one round like extra attacks, extra damage, damage reduction, the ability to move things in the corporeal world, etc. at 5th level you only need to spend a move action (meaning you could give it 2 things) and at 10th you can use your swift action as well (meaning you could give 3). Though some of them are pretty hilarious. Like Fast Healing 1 (for one round), or DR 5 (it's incorporeal), Reach(it's incorporeal), or +30 movement speed (it winks out of existance if it gets too far from you). It's not terrible and an okay option if you really don't mind missing out on that 20th spell.  Nocumancer “Consider the power offered by magic, by the ability to manipulate reality. Imagine how much greater, then, the power available to he who can manipulate magic itself.” —Eveneth Stillwater, Lord of the Third House, Parliament of Shadows Noctumancers are the Eldritch Theurge of shadow magic and arcane magic. Requiring the ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells and mysteries. More interesting than that is that they are basically caster hosers. When they counter a spell they gain a bonus to their next spell caster level equal to half that spell's level. They also gain the ability to counter a spell without using an action a number of times per day using a spell/mystery slot of the opponents spell or higher. And if they successfully eat it they convert their spell into a spell or mystery use equal to half that spell's level. They also gain the ability to impose a -4 caster level penalty on someone for one minute a few times per day, meaning that they probably lose access to their highest two tiers of spells. At 10th level they can create a 20 foot vortex centered on themselves that does it to everyone that isn't them. Also at 10th level they gain straight up immunity for 1 minute to any spell they counter. If you want your party wizard to absolutely hate you, sick one of these guys on them.  Shadowblade “Don’t be afraid of the dark. Be afraid of what’s in the dark.” —Niko Drendol, captain of the Black Dawn These guys are the martial shadow class, sort of. They require a mixture of high bab and some stealth skills requiring multiclassing or waiting until a very high level to get access. In return they get some... not so great class features. The main thing they get is Unseen weapon, and they get one use per class level per day. They can spend a use as a swift action (meaning once per round) to get a bonus on their next attack. What bonuses you say? I'm glad you asked. They can ignore concealment on one attack. They can deny their opponent their dexterity bonus on the next attack. They can deal 2d6 extra points of damage on their next attack. They can gain 10 feet of reach on their next attack. and at 10th level they can use unseen weapon as a free action meaning they can spend multiple uses per round though they're still limited to 10 per day. So I guess you can dump all 10 into a 20d6 nova round but why would you. They also get sudden strike (I.E. only when the opponent is denied their dex bonus, oh hey look at that unseen weapon class feature) and a bonus on hide and move silently checks. There is literally no compelling reason to take this class over a rogue.  Shadowsmith “You think me unarmed. You think me helpless. So long as there is night and day, I am neither.” —Hrogar Ilgenson, shadowsmith and First Mate of the Fourth Dragon In contrast to the last class, this one is actually interesting. The only requirements to get in are 5 BAB and some confusing skill requirements. Craft (armor, blacksmithing, or weaponry) 5, know arcane 3, and know the planes 3. So in theory a fighter could get into this class at 6th level if they dumped all their skills into it. At first level you gain access to a single mystery, eventually you learn two more. You don't learn fundamentals and the only saving grace is that your saving throws are based off of your intelligence modifier. At first level you can use shadow to give yourself a bonus on climb checks equal to your level. At second level you can use shadow to give you a bonus on hide and move silently checks equal to half your level. At third level the class designer wakes up and realizes that the first two levels are bad and gives you something worthwhile. As a standard action you can craft an object out of pure shadow, as long as it isn't flexible and doesn't have any moving parts. If you want to craft something specific you need to succeed on a relevant craft check. You can use it a number of times per day equal to your class level and it lasts for an number of hours equal to the same. At 6th level you can give the items you craft an enhancement bonus equal to your class level - 5. at 8th level you can create enchanted light armor for yourself. At 4th level you can give yourself a deflection bonus to AC for 10 minutes a level a number of times per day equal to half your level (E.G. every combat in an adventuring day) and at 5th level you can spread your shadow-stealthy-ness to your party members for one minute. Next Time: What the hell is a Mystery and are any of them good? Kurieg fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 23:47
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Anyone familiar with the new Mindjammer book? I noticed it in my FLGS, and it seems to be promising (if somewhat crunchy for Fate). I'd have picked it up already if not for the variable nature of 3PP Fate books and the fact that my group is already running other stuff.
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Sep 21, 2014 02:09
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I picked it up thinking it might be an interesting substitute for Eclipse Phase, but apparently the main human civilization in-game has a Federation-like stance on human improvements (by which I mean "don't do it ever we mean it").
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Sep 21, 2014 04:55
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 Alright, before we get to the MC'ing section of Monsterhearts, we've got one more limited edition Skin to go through: the Serpentine.  The Serpentine is a snake person from a family of snake people who used to rule the earth, before us stupid apes took control. Basically, you're a kid from a suffocating family who still clings desperately to their ancient glory and wants to reinstate their power. I've heard the Serpentine being being described as a Southern Gothic skin, and my limited experience with the Southern Gothic genre of literature definitely matches up to the themes of the Serpentine: it's focus on a family's lost glories coupled with said family being unable to let go of the past remind me of Tennessee Williams' heavily autobiographical play A Glass Menagerie, where the mother of a family stuck in poverty still clings to her past as a Southern Belle from a family of wealth in the South, and tries to urge her socially awkward daughter to emulate her. The Serpentine's mechanics even reflect the ending of said play, where the family's son rejects his mother's aspirations of reliving the glories of the South and goes off on his own. So, even more so than the Angel, the Serpentine is about family. You're basically that kid from a very insular family who views the rest of the world through paranoid eyes, and as such the outside world is very alien to you. In addition to their normal appearance and origin options, the Serpentine gets to choose two items from a list to describe their True Snake form. Again, the Skin does not discuss the exact mechanics or nature of the Serpentine's snake form, so it's once again left up to the group to determine. As far as Stats go, the Serpentine starts with Cold and Hot at 1, with Volatile and Dark at -1. Get it, they have high Cold and Hot 'cause they're both warm-blooded like mammals and cold-blooded like reptiles? Eh? Eh? I'll get me coat. Moves! All Serpentines start with Failing Dynasty. The Serpentine chooses one thing their family wants to regain: their political clout; their old wealth; their failing beauty; their web of secret allegiances. Whenever a family member asks the Serpentine to do something for them, the Serpentine takes 1 forward to fulfilling it and the family member gains a String on them. However, whenever the Serpentine helps their family regain some of their former glory, they mark experience. In addition to the above, the Serpentine chooses one more Move from the following list: Mesmerizing allows you to be a hypnotic snake of legend. Remember that poo poo Ka was always pulling on people in The Jungle Book (the Disney film, not sure if any of that was in the original novel)? You can do that. When you stare at someone without blinking, roll with Hot. On a 10+ they freeze up until you blink or someone touches them, and they gain the Condition dazed. On a 7-9 they gain the Condition dazed. The Big Reveal triggers when you reveal your true form to someone. They gain a String on you, and if they accept you for who you are they mark experience. If they reject you, you take 1 forward against them. Temptation is one of the coolest manipulation-related moves I've seen: when you convince someone to do something, they take 1 forward to doing it. If they succeed you choose to either mark experience or to gain a String on them. The New Order is for those Serpentines who want to get away from their family and play the arch of becoming independent outside of your family's coils (Get it, coils?). When you learn to fulfill one of your needs within human society, mark experience. When others help you fit in better with human society, they mark experience. Patience is a Virtue triggers when you bite your tongue and don't respond to adversity. Roll with Cold, and on a 10+ you choose one: gain a String on them or give them the Condition snake food. On a 7-9 they gain the Condition snake food. Trespassing gives you a bit of power in your lair, while also allowing you to sneak into others' lairs at ease: when someone enters your lair without your permission, they gain the Condition snake food. You also get to add 1 to your rolls whenever trying to infiltrate or escape someone else's lair. If you're wondering what the Condition snake food does beyond allowing you to add 1 to your rolls when you make use of it, Hapless Prey is the answer to your question: when you lash out physically at someone with the snake food Condition, roll with Cold instead of Volatile. The Serpentine's Moves have a lot of obvious synergies, but sadly you only start with one of them. That having been said, a high Cold Serpentine with hapless prey is something to watch out for: you can use your high Cold to shut someone down and give them the snake food Condition (probably adding a bit of hissing into the narration of your sick burn) and then roll Cold all day every day when lashing out physically at them. Having said that, to me the most thematically interesting Moves are the ones that drive the narrative towards the Serpentine trying to get out of their family's sphere of influence. Start with new order, roleplay the stranger who needs a little help from the mammals to understand human society, pick up the big reveal when dramatically appropriate and see what happens when you reveal to your loved one that you're actually a weird snake person. Oh, and speaking of the person who will teach you to cope with human society? From your Background you get two Strings on someone whom you've been watching in order to learn more about human society. However, your family also seeks to control your every move, and the head of your family gains two Strings on you. As an Advancement the Serpentine can pick up the Nest of Humans Gang. The wording here is intentional: the Serpentine is a bit alien to human society, so they even think of human family units in terms of being like a nest of serpents. The Serpentine's Sex Move is also perfectly appropriate for a character that is trying to escape their family: Sex Move posted:When you have sex with someone, they become a part of the Failing Dynasty (and subject to the move’s mechanics). What this means is that when you have sex with someone, you can gain experience for helping them meet their wishes, and you take 1 forward for doing what they ask you to do. However, it can potentially mean that the person gains a lot of control on you. Finally, the Serpentine's Darkest Self is all about either rejecting your family or slithering (Get it?) right back to them: Darkest Self posted:You aren’t ever going to be able to reconcile the human and serpent worlds. You can’t live with the lies and insanity any longer. You need to reject one side or the other to escape this madness. Run the gently caress away, hide, return to the bosom of your serpent family or abandon them entirely for the human world. You’ll threaten, hobble or destroy anyone who tries to keep you enmeshed in contradictory obligations. You escape your Darkest Self when you submit yourself to the old obligations once more, or you shed your past life and integrate yourself into a new family. The irony of the Serpentine is that they only escape their Darkest Self by either returning to their old family or integrating themselves into a new one. The Serpentine needs a family of some sort: either their old snake person family or a human family, but they are always subservient to one family unit. The Skin doesn't actually state as much, but if I were to be playing a Serpentine I'd argue that escaping my old life to integrate myself into a human family (with family here being up to interpretation, potentially representing a close-knit group of friends) they'd be subject to the mechanics of my failing dynasty move now. The Serpentine is not at the top of my list of Skins I'd like to play, but it's definitely close. There's just so much story potential in a character whose thing is escaping a doting family and who has a lot of trouble relating to the outside world, and the fact that the Serpentine is always going to need a family of some sort even if they escape their old one is pretty tragic. You could play the Serpentine as a villainous figure who basically serves as a mook to their dynasty and that can also lend itself to some fun roleplay. Since the Serpentine also comes with their own group of NPCs, the matriarch or patriarch of the serpent dynasty potentially makes for a great Menace. If you've got a Chosen in the group, you can easily play the Serpentine and the Chosen against each other, with the Serpentine as a hapless mook to their family who wants to destroy all of those stupid mammals who stole their former glory. Anyway, for now we'll be shedding (GET IT?!) the Skins and moving on to the MCing section of the book, which is actually one of the best how to GM sections in any RPG I've ever read.
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Sep 21, 2014 12:18
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Kurieg posted:They also gain the ability to impose a -4 caster level penalty on someone for one minute a few times per day, meaning that they probably lose access to their highest two tiers of spells. Does it actually say that? I'd think that'd just a be a penalty to caster level tests for things like overcoming spell resistance.
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Sep 21, 2014 14:35
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PoptartsNinja posted:Does it actually say that? I'd think that'd just a be a penalty to caster level tests for things like overcoming spell resistance. Noctumancer posted:Eldritch Disruption (Su): At 6th level, you can use a d20srd posted:A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell.
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Sep 21, 2014 15:05
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It's weird to me, but whenever I look at the Serpentine I see a Lodge member from Feng Shui. Not quite human, a member of a stifling and insane family that does weird stuff and has your life already planned out for you, and with the obvious dramatic desire to break out of it.
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Sep 21, 2014 15:32
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I can also see it working really well for a kid from an immigrant family to whatever country you're playing in whose family is very close-knit and tied deeply to their old country while you're the kid assimilating into your new country - perhaps the only country you've ever known - and having problems with your family as a result.
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Sep 21, 2014 16:09
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Cythereal posted:I can also see it working really well for a kid from an immigrant family to whatever country you're playing in whose family is very close-knit and tied deeply to their old country while you're the kid assimilating into your new country - perhaps the only country you've ever known - and having problems with your family as a result. Absolutely. You could easily play your Serpentine as the scion of a family who had a lot of clout in the old world, but who are lacking that in the new world. Also, I was going through my Monsterhearts PDFs and realized where I first got the connection to Southern Gothic: when I purchased Monsterhearts the PDF bundle came with the Serpentine and a supplemental PDF for MCs called "Under the Serpentine's Skin:" Under the Serpentine's Skin posted:The serpentine’s family should lean heavily upon Southern Gothic aesthetics and themes: baroque families, fallen glory, incestuous internal politics, grotesquery, racial tension, and horrific violence. Bolded the bit that is relevant to my point here: I don't think I stressed the fact that the Serpentine's family sees humans as intruders on a world that is rightfully theirs enough. Basically, the Serpentine's family is a Southern family with connections to the KKK who see a multiracial society as an affront to their family's former glory, and the Serpentine is an innocent kid who's been raised in that environment who either needs to drink their family's Kool Aid or awkwardly learn to accommodate themselves to a society that doesn't match their family's values. poo poo, for a more nerdy metaphor with an extra dose of snake imagery, the Serpentine is Draco Malfoy: his family is all "We're descended from this pure-blooded snake-magic guy, all y'all mudbloods better show some respect," and Draco's arc in the books is basically him turning from a willing puppet of his family to someone who finally sees their bizarre magical racial politics for how hosed up they are.
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Sep 21, 2014 16:48
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The Serpentine is neat because it represents families where there's a lot of inherent indoctrination and I feel like people can relate to that. Like, the Angel and the Serpentine both come from controlling homes. But the Serpentine is still in good standing and adheres to some aspect of their family's commandments while the Angel has been cast out of the home until they can regain their good standing...but is lost without guidance. The Angel is a Serpentine who has hosed up royally or just decided to break free but not attach themselves to a new home. You could probably transition pretty well from Serpent to Angel, mechanically and thematically. Plus the Serpentine is open enough so that if Southern Gothic isn't your thing, there's other ways to rework it. Like, maybe the family has a local business on the decline and they'll be damned if it's gonna go to the bank, it's been in the family for 150 years. Or mom and dad are strict disciplinarians who know where you're going for college and you're going to be a lawyer like we tell you to. But instead of another heritage that clashes with your environment, or a religious influence...you're snake people, literally or metaphorically.
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Sep 21, 2014 16:55
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Holy poo poo, the Serpentine is Lovecraft as hell, right down to visiting the horrors of miscegenation on someone you share the effects of your Sex Move with.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:03
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In the MH games I was involved in, I ended up playing The Serpentine. Probably botched it as I didn't play it as a kid trying to find an identity independent of his family, I played a serpent in human form. There was a large volume of trying to kill NPCs who were prettier and the game culminated with the character being commanded to participate in the overthrow of the police force as his family took control. So much blood shed in that game.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:04
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Ratpick posted:Bolded the bit that is relevant to my point here: I don't think I stressed the fact that the Serpentine's family sees humans as intruders on a world that is rightfully theirs enough. Basically, the Serpentine's family is a Southern family with connections to the KKK who see a multiracial society as an affront to their family's former glory, and the Serpentine is an innocent kid who's been raised in that environment who either needs to drink their family's Kool Aid or awkwardly learn to accommodate themselves to a society that doesn't match their family's values. Or playing the miscegnation thing with the "Serpentine as an immigrant kid" angle I'm partial to, it's a kid from a part of the world where arranged marriages are the norm and her parents intend to find her a nice young, successful man back home to marry. But the Serpentine instead falls for someone from this country that her parents really don't approve of. If you've ever known a girl whose family immigrated from India to name a common example in modern culture, you may be familiar with this phenomenon.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:06
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Bieeardo posted:Holy poo poo, the Serpentine is Lovecraft as hell, right down to visiting the horrors of miscegenation on someone you share the effects of your Sex Move with. And this is why I love mocking Lovecraft's themes even as I embrace his motifs. The idea of snake people always struck me as a profoundly tragic society. The snakes' world died with the dinosaurs, and everything they do-everything they are-is based around trying desperately to reclaim their world and their glory despite everything that's happened rendering that world unattainable. Screaming about how they're inherently evil (no really it's not out of being understandably bitter because they realize they're dying out they're just nasty because reasons) doesn't change that fact at all. I did a little happy dance upon reading that writeup; there's even a Move for being sympathetic to the Serpentine's true nature. It's like Lovecraft's evil twin wrote this Skin, and I love it.
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Sep 21, 2014 20:36
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Tasoth posted:In the MH games I was involved in, I ended up playing The Serpentine. Probably botched it as I didn't play it as a kid trying to find an identity independent of his family, I played a serpent in human form. There was a large volume of trying to kill NPCs who were prettier and the game culminated with the character being commanded to participate in the overthrow of the police force as his family took control. So much blood shed in that game. I don't think you botched it by not playing a serpent struggling with their over-doting family. As I said, there are plenty of ways to play the Serpentine: either embracing your part as a servant of your family, or trying to get out of it. Personally, I find the latter more interesting, because it has so much potential for neat drama. Having said that, I do think that playing the villain can be fun, and playing a Serpentine as the mook to your big bad family is an interesting way to take the Skin. Bieeardo posted:Holy poo poo, the Serpentine is Lovecraft as hell, right down to visiting the horrors of miscegenation on someone you share the effects of your Sex Move with. You're right, the Serpentine is really Lovecraftian, but with a touch of teenage melodrama. I like to talk about obvious synergies between Skins, and I think the Serpentine is another Skin that works perfectly with the Mortal. Basically, you've got a boy-meets-girl story, only boy turns out to be a snake person and when the two finally get it on (probably after a lot of soul-searching on the boy's part 'cause his family's always told him that he needs to stay away from those filthy mammals) the boy panics and must now choose between his old family or embracing another, more human family, while the girl now has a huge target painted on her when the boy's parents find out. The thing with the Serpentine is that the family unit, no matter how dysfunctional, is always the most important thing to them, and even when they become intimate with someone they can only think of that intimacy in terms of that person being a part of the family. It's actually pretty disturbing: to the Serpentine, the very act of physical intimacy just settles the fact that you're now a de facto member of their larger family unit. It's more than a little incestuous, giving it an even stronger Lovecraftian vibe.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:04
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Erebro posted:And this is why I love mocking Lovecraft's themes even as I embrace his motifs. I know what you mean about Lovecraft. His language and his creations are great fun to play around with, but I feel it necessary to rehabilitate or refute the anxieties he expressed along with them when I do. Edit: I really like how The Big Reveal, er, forks. There's risk involved, with the string, but acceptance is rewarded (and could be framed as being folded into a multicultural society, if you bent that way), and refusal trips a relay in the Serpentine's reptile brain to reinforce their family's attitudes toward outsiders and mark them as a threat. Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 21:10
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Bieeardo posted:I know what you mean about Lovecraft. His language and his creations are great fun to play around with, but I feel it necessary to rehabilitate or refute the anxieties he expressed along with them when I do. Same here: I love Lovecraft's works for the things they have inspired, but even in games inspired by his works I would never, ever play the politics he tried to discuss through those stories straight. I think the Serpentine is Lovecraftian in a good way: it's a Skin about a family suffering from a fear of miscegnation, but the thing is that the way it's written the Serpentine actually portrays its family's hosed up politics for how hosed up and unhealthy to the Serpentine they are. Basically, the Serpentine does with Lovecraft's racial politics what the Mortal does with Twilight's portrayal of relationships: it plays them straight to the point that it becomes obvious how messed up they are.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:19
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I'm taking notes on using the Serpentine if my tabletop group decides to play MH again after our Rogue Trader campaign finishes, which it probably will in the next few weeks. My group liked having a Chosen to give the game some definite direction, and I'm considering using the Serpentine's family as an ally rather than an enemy. A dangerous ally, one that probably shouldn't be trusted, but they've got the money, the connections, and the know-how to be an invaluable asset to the Chosen's fight. They're using the Chosen, of course, no one's under any illusions about that, but can the Chosen really afford to turn down their help? Make the Chosen's Menace the prime reason for the Serpentine family's downfall, giving them a deep and personal reason to be in the fight. Add teenage melodrama for spice in an already tense if not unholy alliance.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:48
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Cythereal posted:I can also see it working really well for a kid from an immigrant family to whatever country you're playing in whose family is very close-knit and tied deeply to their old country while you're the kid assimilating into your new country - perhaps the only country you've ever known - and having problems with your family as a result. Yeah I get tons of bleed from my real life just reading about the Serpentine in this thread because what you wrote here is basically my IRL. It hits a bit too close to home for me so I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to play it. I kind of realize why no one in my local scene really likes the skin. It's way too far outside their experience, whereas the other skins aren't really. I have thoughts about how to play a Serpentine to really match up with this notion of someone trying to escape from their family, and they mostly center on keeping the family itself off screen as much as possible.
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Sep 21, 2014 23:31
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Tulpa posted:I have thoughts about how to play a Serpentine to really match up with this notion of someone trying to escape from their family, and they mostly center on keeping the family itself off screen as much as possible. It seems like that's one of the best ways to play any of the 'obsession' skins, really; sideline the actual object and focus more on how the obsession warps their relationships and personality.
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Sep 22, 2014 06:19
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More Spergcraft Page 171 is the start of the Feats chapter Feats are divided into bunches of groups. The Basic Combat feats also contain lots of special tactical feats that a character gives to their team. Melee Combat feats give general melee combat abilities as well as special skills with everything from knives and clubs to polearms and axes. These ones give special combat “tricks” (Moves you can do in a fight) and “stances” (fighting style bonuses). For example, Knife Basics give you a Stance called “Circling Stance” that makes you knife attacks harder to avoid if you have room to maneuver around your enemy and the “Between the Ribs” Trick where you inflict Sneak Attack damage with a special attack. Ranged Combat feats serve the same purpose for ranged combat and gives capabilities with automatic fire, close quarters gunfights, long range marksmanship. Unarmed Combat feats provide modifiers for all sorts of fighting without weapons. The game provides suggestions for how you can combine feats to emulate various martial arts styles. Chance feats manipulate luck, both yours and your enemy’s. Chase feats, despite the name, are about all kinds of vehicle operation. Covert feats are all about hiding and secrecy. Amusingly, there’s like three feats that are all about knocking out people with surprise attacks. Gear feats have to do with making best use of your equipment and your lifestyle. Basic Skill feats give general improvements to some of a character's skills. Each provides a +2 bonus to checks with two particular skills and expands their threat range to 19-20, as well as allowing access to the Advanced Skill Feats. The Advanced Skill feats provide a lot of various benefits while using skills. Style feats are all about influence. Lots of them give you a network of acquaintances in certain social circles and others modify attempts to influence others. Terrain feats involve the environment, from a characters familiarity with it to talent with manhunts (both executing and avoiding). Tradecraft feats are those abilities that every master spy needs, from interrogation techniques and cover identities to use of surveillance equipment and analysis. Spycraft feats are a lot more powerful, flavorful and character defining than they are/were throughout pretty much all of 3.X. Some are still kind of lovely though, like Weapon Focus is in and still dumb and bad.
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Sep 22, 2014 14:57
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I don't immediately think "miscegenation" when I read the Serpentine, but I don't immediately think "rape" when I read the Ghoul, so I guess I'm the one who's crazy. One thing that bothered me about the supplementary Skins is that the character theme may or may not go with the specificity of the supernatural theme. That most of the Skins can be played simply as humans is one of the strengths of the core game. All of the Skins are pretty open-ended in terms of exactly what monster you are, and even the Werewolf can easily be anything from a were-tiger to an alien. But then there's one I read called the Creature, which is for that kid who is a relentless activist, and is also the Creature from the Black Lagoon. Night10194 posted:It's weird to me, but whenever I look at the Serpentine I see a Lodge member from Feng Shui. Not quite human, a member of a stifling and insane family that does weird stuff and has your life already planned out for you, and with the obvious dramatic desire to break out of it.
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Sep 22, 2014 15:42
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Bieeardo posted:Holy poo poo, the Serpentine is Lovecraft as hell, right down to visiting the horrors of miscegenation on someone you share the effects of your Sex Move with. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 17:00
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Good point. I've had more exposure to Lovecraft than I have Southern Gothic, I'll admit. That may be a Canadian thing, since we have our own uneasily cohabiting cultures to be fascinated with.
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Sep 22, 2014 17:36
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