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Punch Card
Sep 13, 2005

by Ralp

ImpAtom posted:

I said it before but the combat system is sounding more and more like Lightning Returns which really was not a bad combat system, although one which could have used a bit of polish. IF they're adjusting that then it could end up being something pretty enjoyable.

This is pretty much where I'm at with the game as it is now. I hope they tweak the combat enough to make/keep it interesting and the premise seems different/weird enough that I can get some fun out of it. I'm looking forward to the game and bummed I have to delay my gratification.

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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

No see they're talking about streamlining it AND NOW IT'S RUINED AND FOR CASUALS FOREVER.


Jesus you nerds are some fatalistic, panicky weirdos.

I mean, there's "streamlining," and then there's "only ever press one button and let the game decide what you wanted to do."

That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if this turns out to be one of those mistranslation goofs, like when at least one website had an interview with the new director of Dark Souls II that made it sound like he wanted to make the game easier. I bet Tabata does want to streamline things, but I also bet the game won't actually be played with one button. The stuff he said about positioning and baiting enemies to attack makes it sound like he wants the game to look like an action game but not actually be an action game, and instead reward strategic positioning and good planning more than timed button press combos.

Harrow fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Sep 23, 2014

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

Sunning posted:

Actually, I would call Nomura's now cancelled FFvsXIII as the equivalent of Homer's concept car, which suffered from feature creep and schizophrenic direction, rather than the pared down FFXV we have now. At the end of the day, Homer still had a live demonstration at a public event. And so did Tabata.

So what you're saying is Homer Simpson should design the next Final Fantasy game.

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010

ImpAtom posted:

... yes, but we're talking about Final Fantasy here. That is literally every Final Fantasy game. That is the entire point of them. They are RPGs designed to cater to the casual crowd who want low-stress RPG experiences.

I mean if you were going into this expecting a deep and interesting combat system, even in its original version, you were in for a deep surprise. It is a Final Fantasy game. They are literally catering to the lowest common denominator, dressing up incredibly simple (and often literally broken) gameplay in nice visuals, great music and occasionally engaging design.

Even when it was still directed by Nomura, he was talking about making it easy enough for fans of the main series to beat, since not everyone cranks up the ATB speed and uses Active. Kingdom Hearts II was also a cakewalk on Normal, but Proud difficulty is manageable for anyone used to action games or other entries in the KH series.

ImpAtom posted:

I will point out that Final Fantasy XIII was released with an Easy Mode in Japan due to complaints over its difficulty and even people in the US complained about its difficulty/unfair bosses/whatever.

The sweet spot for you is not necessarily the sweet spot for the casual RPG crowd who very often will not interact with any mechanic beyond the absolute most basic.

That's a shame, since I thought that one thing XIII did a lot better than its sequel was its difficulty curve. It is a much smoother experience if you knew certain things going in though, like how switching paradigms after every two bars refills it instantly, and to design situational paradigms rather than having a healer in each one. Also that Sazh is the best, since he gets Haste so early and can get a weapon that prevents the stagger gauge from dropping so you can use triple Ravagers without any drawback.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.

Mega64 posted:

So what you're saying is Homer Simpson should design the next Final Fantasy game.

I think he already did:

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
Yeah, it doesn't really sound like it will literally play with one button, but that attacks will string together by holding a button. I'm guessing it will have at least a physical attack button, a "special" attack button, the teleporty button, and a dodge button. In Lightning Returns you could hold an attack button down and it would automatically string the hits together, or you could manually press the button for each hit and get timing bonuses. I wouldn't be shocked to see something similar.

Now granted, I was pretty psyched about being able to scroll through weapons on the fly and stuff, but guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 24, 2008

SICK LOOT!

Oxxidation posted:

I don't think that he can ride in this rodeo.

I think he's in hell.

Punch Card
Sep 13, 2005

by Ralp

Pesky Splinter posted:

I think he already did:


This is awesome.

How Rude
Aug 13, 2012


FUCK THIS SHIT

Schwartzcough posted:

Yeah, it doesn't really sound like it will literally play with one button, but that attacks will string together by holding a button. I'm guessing it will have at least a physical attack button, a "special" attack button, the teleporty button, and a dodge button. In Lightning Returns you could hold an attack button down and it would automatically string the hits together, or you could manually press the button for each hit and get timing bonuses. I wouldn't be shocked to see something similar.

Now granted, I was pretty psyched about being able to scroll through weapons on the fly and stuff, but guess we'll just have to wait and see.

If it gets to the point where in the game you end up going against trash mobs it'd be great to have a button that attacks sub-optimally but still kills weak enemies quickly either for farming or blowing through an area you have already been through.

That's why I like RPGs that either optionally allow you to ignore weak encounters or mow them down with one button press with an auto battle feature.

Terper
Jun 26, 2012


How Rude posted:

If it gets to the point where in the game you end up going against trash mobs it'd be great to have a button that attacks sub-optimally but still kills weak enemies quickly either for farming or blowing through an area you have already been through.

That's why I like RPGs that either optionally allow you to ignore weak encounters or mow them down with one button press with an auto battle feature.

I mean, yeah, but when I'm overleveled I'd rather run over the weakass goblins with my car than have to get out to kill them.

Level Slide
Jan 4, 2011

I will buy a copy of Final Fantasy 15 on release.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Playing curtain call makes me really want to replay every final fantasy (except ffx sorta because its music outside the final battle is kinda bad)

Like man did ff8 have an incredible score and I really want to replay it

fronz
Apr 7, 2009



Lipstick Apathy

Toxxupation posted:

Playing curtain call makes me really want to replay every final fantasy (except ffx sorta because its music outside the final battle is kinda bad)

there's no end to your wrong opinions on music, is there

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010

Terper posted:

I mean, yeah, but when I'm overleveled I'd rather run over the weakass goblins with my car than have to get out to kill them.

You should be able to level up your car to allow it to take down more powerful enemies, or even be summoned at any point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KSzjJQlKso&t=123s

Mischitary
Oct 9, 2007

Schwartzcough posted:

Yeah, it doesn't really sound like it will literally play with one button, but that attacks will string together by holding a button. I'm guessing it will have at least a physical attack button, a "special" attack button, the teleporty button, and a dodge button. In Lightning Returns you could hold an attack button down and it would automatically string the hits together, or you could manually press the button for each hit and get timing bonuses. I wouldn't be shocked to see something similar.

Now granted, I was pretty psyched about being able to scroll through weapons on the fly and stuff, but guess we'll just have to wait and see.

What it seems like to me, is that there will be a button for attacking that you will hold down to attack, but Noctis just does whatever looks cool or is best as an attack. For instance, if you were to hold down the attack button and an enemy was relatively far away from you, you couldn't make Noctis pull out a short sword to attack with, he would just automatically do a lunging attack with a long spear or whatever. This also makes it so that the combination attacks are very varied and happen smoothly. The difficulty in the fights won't be from twitch gameplay like a Kingdom Hearts game, but instead using your head and preparing your team beforehand, a lot like FF12 was. Tabata said in an interview where he said that he was trying to make the game more realistic (the game is "a fantasy based on reality" after all) so you'd have to use tactics that would make sense in the real world. The example he gave was fighting a Behemoth, where just fighting it head on would be useless because it's a goddamn Behemoth so you'd have to bait it into a lunging attack and then get it off balance and hit it from the side.

I went back and watched the trailer from 2011 for Versus and while it does look pretty good this new system they have in place is a lot different then just about anything I can think of in a game. It can either work really well and be awesome or just fall flat on it's face and be the most boring mundane poo poo. They're really taking a risk here I think. Most people are talking about this like they were afraid to put action combat into the game so they fell back into this retreat with the combat they have now but for me it's the opposite really. It's a big gamble. I just hope it doesn't end up being a bad one.

Mischitary fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 23, 2014

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

I love ffx, third or fourth favorite ff, but a lot of those scores are kinda dopey and placid

I mean it fits the theme of the game being essentially one long road documentary but none of the music is really energetic or interesting, it's not blood pumpingly good just sorta...there

Oh and the battle theme is No Good

AlmightyBob
Sep 8, 2003

ImpAtom posted:

I will point out that Final Fantasy XIII was released with an Easy Mode in Japan due to complaints over its difficulty and even people in the US complained about its difficulty/unfair bosses/whatever.

The sweet spot for you is not necessarily the sweet spot for the casual RPG crowd who very often will not interact with any mechanic beyond the absolute most basic.

I don't understand how this is possible because I'm loving terrible at JRPGs and not only did I beat 13 but I loving steamrolled the final boss.

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
AlmightyBob, there are a lot of people who are very bad at video games, even people in this very thread.

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
Curtain call made me realize I don't like FF XII's music.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
There are people that struggle with Hyrule Warriors as a recent example on Easy.

You are typing on the internet, that is a legit thing many people have a hard time doing that play games on the broad market FF15 is gunning for.

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022

Kurtofan posted:

Curtain call made me realize I don't like FF XII's music.

FFXII made me realize that, dunno why you're so late to the party. For real though, 12's got one of the most boring soundtracks ever.;

Mischitary
Oct 9, 2007

AlmightyBob posted:

I don't understand how this is possible because I'm loving terrible at JRPGs and not only did I beat 13 but I loving steamrolled the final boss.

FFXIII is easy once you get the hang of it but I can understand a lot of people just not getting the hang of it. It's a really unique battle system and also you have to have weirdly good reflexes for what is essentially still a turn based JRPG. It's basically ATB on steroids, it's so fast compared to past FF games. I had a lot more trouble with FFXIII then I did with basically any traditional ATB style FF game.

edit: FFXII has awesome music guys what are you saying? How is this not awesome?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7J_8IB5i6k

Maybe it was because I loved Tactics so much and I was hungering for more soundtracks like that game's.

Mischitary fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Sep 23, 2014

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Kurtofan posted:

Curtain call made me realize I don't like FF XII's music.

See I'm the opposite, playing ffxii in curtain call made me realize if rather a game treat everything I did like it was the raddest poo poo ever, of all time, with a full orchestra over ffx's sort of dull shrug in reaction to everything you do

Neither is preferable, it should be a balance between the two but if I had to pick id pick the former

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon

Beef Waifu posted:

FFXII made me realize that, dunno why you're so late to the party. For real though, 12's got one of the most boring soundtracks ever.;

I didn't play much of it and it was my first ff since vi.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Toxxupation posted:

I love ffx, third or fourth favorite ff, but a lot of those scores are kinda dopey and placid

I mean it fits the theme of the game being essentially one long road documentary but none of the music is really energetic or interesting, it's not blood pumpingly good just sorta...there

Oh and the battle theme is No Good

FFX's battle theme is decent, the problem is that you're likely to only hear those opening trumpets ten thousand times in a row, which will sour your opinion of it in a big hurry.

I remember nothing else of X's soundtrack except for Otherworld and Suteki Da Ne, and the latter I'd sort of like to forget.

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022

Kurtofan posted:

I didn't play much of it and it was my first ff since vi.

Ah understandable. I hadn't played it in forever myself so when I played Dissidia and I heard the music I was just like "zzzzz" and put on Otherworld immediately.

On the subject of the 10 soundtrack, I feel that like half of the soundtrack is fantastic. It's very somber but it works to its advantage in certain ways and then you will get kickass songs like all of the boss themes, especially Challenge which I feel especially amps up the tension after Sin levels mushroom rock road. I think X-2 overall does better with a more consistent soundtrack as all of the battle themes are super good and even stuff like the music videos have catchy tunes.

Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Sep 23, 2014

Terper
Jun 26, 2012


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3kGanKCZ5k

Mischitary
Oct 9, 2007

Oxxidation posted:

FFX's battle theme is decent, the problem is that you're likely to only hear those opening trumpets ten thousand times in a row, which will sour your opinion of it in a big hurry.

I remember nothing else of it except for Otherworld and Suteki Da Ne, and the latter I'd sort of like to forget.

I think that this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXiMaCXnbck&index=86&list=PLEE9B8E4750CB344A

is still one of the best battle themes in Final Fantasy history. The way it starts with the Yevon chant is really cool because of how you're destroying the Aeons.

A Great Big Bee!
Mar 8, 2007

Grimey Drawer
I find some of FFX's music doesn't stand up to repeat listens or is more atmospheric than a good tune. The standard battle theme is awful, and the only really good boss themes are Otherworld and Fight With Seymour. The best tracks are the field ones, Zanarkand, Fleeting Dream and Mt. Gagazet are all great and in fact get played on the BBC's classical music station.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Oxxidation posted:

FFX's battle theme is decent, the problem is that you're likely to only hear those opening trumpets ten thousand times in a row, which will sour your opinion of it in a big hurry.

I remember nothing else of it except for Otherworld and Suteki Da Ne, and the latter I'd sort of like to forget.

What about final battle

Also I real hardcore disagree wrt ffx's battle theme, it feels like the game used a full orchestra and had them modulate their sound to match the output of snes era ff, which I just think is weird and kinda self-defeating

In comparison to ff8s which might just be my favorite ff battle theme ever it's really weird to see how those games approached using an orchestra

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Sep 23, 2014

Terper
Jun 26, 2012


Final Fantasy X has my favorite field themes, and there are a lot of very good field themes in Final Fantasy.

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022

People of the North is somehow a more amazing track on the Remastered Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nd4pvnkPUY

Gamwhiz1
Aug 15, 2012


Beef Waifu posted:

FFXII made me realize that, dunno why you're so late to the party. For real though, 12's got one of the most boring soundtracks ever.;

FFXII has a shitload of really, really great music for areas and events, and an equal amount of kinda bland battle and boss themes. It's easily my favorite FF world to explore, but I agree that the songs in curtain call (bms at least) are super underwhelming.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Kurtofan posted:

Curtain call made me realize I don't like FF XII's music.


Beef Waifu posted:

FFXII made me realize that, dunno why you're so late to the party. For real though, 12's got one of the most boring soundtracks ever.;

You both have terrible taste in music, sorry.

Attitude Indicator
Apr 3, 2009

FF12 has a great OST. too bad you troglodytes can't appreciate it.

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Oh wait, the new arrangement of Battle on the Big Bridge is good, so there's that. That's more Battle on the Big Bridge being a fantastic song in general though.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

LOCUST FART HELL posted:

The standard battle theme is awful

get the gently caress out

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
I recall absolutely nothing of FFXII's OST. Not a track, not a note, nothing. It's all one endless mush of trumpet noises to me.

Though to be fair that has as much to do with when I played it as anything.

Help Im Alive
Nov 8, 2009

I played XII for around 80 hours but I can only remember like 3 songs

VIII was always my favourite FF soundtrack and I think Theatrhythm confirms it because its selection owns and I can't wait for Balamb Garden DLC

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Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
I don't care for 8 much, but there are just so many amazing songs on the soundtrack that it's so hard to forget. I can name multiple field and battle themes and it gives us one of the best final boss themes, Maybe I'm A Lion. Then Uematsu got his band together and made it into a loving rock mix and it's the poo poo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDT_Y6Jj5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4nTWKW0G8

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