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Zephyrine posted:Just finished "Going Postal" and I loved it. One thing that did make me sad was that Guilt died in the end I did like his character and all the work that went into it and I would have looked forward to seeing him turn up every now and then in the position he was offered. Gilt, not Guilt. Very different meaning. I disagree and think it would have made the story worse if he'd accepted.
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Sep 6, 2014 15:14
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Pham Nuwen posted:Gilt, not Guilt. Very different meaning. I disagree and think it would have made the story worse if he'd accepted. Plus it set up Making Money. And that change would go against the reasoning behind Moist's motivation in the last stretch.
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Sep 6, 2014 18:02
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DoctorWhat posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/r4-good-omens Love that book. I hope the adaptation stacks up. I'm still bummed that Gaiman moving to Wisconsin prevented him and Terry from getting together to write 668: Neighbor of the Beast. 
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Sep 7, 2014 05:05
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jng2058 posted:Gaiman moving to Wisconsin When the cheese come-a calling a mans gots to do what he must aye?
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Sep 7, 2014 10:42
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Given that Pratchett is somewhat enormously rich, and he has always wanted Terry Gilliam to do Good Omens, why doesn't he just Executive Produce it and cover any funding that Gilliam can't get elsewhere? Then again, after seeing Lost in La Mancha, one wonders how badly Gilliam would take it if anything went wrong...
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Sep 8, 2014 04:48
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At this point, secured funding would probably throw Gilliam out of his usual work environment.DoctorWhat posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/r4-good-omens
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Sep 8, 2014 10:25
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precision posted:Given that Pratchett is somewhat enormously rich, and he has always wanted Terry Gilliam to do Good Omens, why doesn't he just Executive Produce it and cover any funding that Gilliam can't get elsewhere? Well, let's think about this. His net worth was reported a few years ago as being somewhere in the region of £42 million, but let's to go the man himself to find out why this doesn't mean "he has £42 million in the bank" (this was written some considerable time ago, in response to his net worth being estimated at £26 million): quote:"This began with some survey done by a magazine called Business Age. Since it's off by the national debt of Belgium my agent rang them up to find out what the hell was going on. Various factoids emerged, like frinstance their assumption that I sell pro rata as much in the States as I do here (hollow laughter from the American readers). And we suspect they fall for the common error that a mere appearance in the bestseller lists means millionaire status (in a poor week the book at number ten might not have sold 100 copies). But the big wobbler is that the estimate is of 'worth', not 'wealth' -- they've hazarded a wild guess at the value of the Discworld rights, as far as we can tell including film rights as well. Remember copyright lasts for 50 years and the books are consistent high backlist sellers. It's similar to pointing to a bright kid and saying 'he's worth three million quids' -- i.e., all the money she or he might earn during their life, at compound interest. It's fairy money. The kind Robert Maxwell had." The Sunday Times Rich List operates in a similar fashion. So let's be generous for a moment, and assume that in fact he at this moment has about £20 million (~$32 million) in either cash or easily liquefiable assets. It's pretty obvious that Good Omens is not going to be a cheap movie to make if you want to do it properly, right? The rights to licence Queen alone could probably pay for a load of worthy shoestring independent meditations on e.g. the subtly intertwining lives of the people who use a particular railway station toilet. 12 Monkeys cost $29.5 million. Doctor Parnassus cost about the same. The Brothers Grimm cost $88 million. Film is not a cheap business. So he almost certainly doesn't have as much money as is often reported, and even if he did it'd still be a bloody big ask to shoulder even half the production costs of a Good Omens movie with enough budget to make it a worthwhile exercise. Let's remember here that when George Harrison bought the most expensive cinema ticket in history by stepping in to personally fund The Life of Brian, even an ex-Beatle had to remortgage his house to do so.
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Sep 8, 2014 11:22
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The Guardian has a foreword by Neil Gaiman up about pTerry, it's very sweet.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:04
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Sri.Theo posted:The Guardian has a foreword by Neil Gaiman up about pTerry, it's very sweet. Yeah, that's the foreword to A Slip of the Keyboard, the forthcoming collection of Pterry's non-fiction writing. I heard it at the Con.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:24
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Doesn't he know? At the very heart of every cynic is a romantic that has been let down once too many times, but they will try and put a bright loving face on it. Just this once eh?
Collateral fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 00:44
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I just finished Snuff. I *love* what pratchett did with Willikins character. It's just such a shame that it took so many books for him to get to it. So many books are wasted on him just being a square butler in the background.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:01
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He was writen much better sort of like that since Jingo, though.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:19
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SeanBeansShako posted:He was writen much better sort of like that since Jingo, though. In my opinion Pratchett didn't start on that side of his character until the later parts of Thud. Specifically the scene with the dwarf attackers. That's where he went from boring old butler Willikins to street thug/assassin Willikins He did go to war in Jingo but not as street thug/assassin Willikins he went to war as just an ignorant recruit seeking glory. Made to symbolize the "glory of war" hysteria among the common man.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:46
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Zephyrine posted:He did go to war in Jingo but not as street thug/assassin Willikins he went to war as just an ignorant recruit seeking glory. Made to symbolize the "glory of war" hysteria among the common man. Did you miss the bit where he immediately gets himself made a sergeant and goes round biting Klatchian noses off? "It was only one nose, sir..."
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Sep 26, 2014 20:55
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Sri.Theo posted:The Guardian has a foreword by Neil Gaiman up about pTerry, it's very sweet. You know, it doesn't surprise me at all that pTerry is driven by rage; I've never really thought about it before, but it really, really fits pretty much every Discworld novel there is. How many problems are created by somebody being angry over a frustrating feature or twist of fate, and how often is that problem solved by the protagonist learning to get angry, and to channel that fury into a positive force? Heck, even the essential themes of each novel seem to be Pratchett setting himself against something and deconstructing it to hell and back: The Colour of Magic/The Light Fantastic against the standard fantasy plot, Equal Rites/Monstrous Regiment against sexism and misogyny, Sourcery against imperialism, Moving Pictures and Soul Music against the movie and music industries respectively, Witches Abroad/ Lords and Ladies against fairy tales, Carpe Jugulum against vampires and the mystique of dictatorships, Small Gods against organized religion, Night watch against armed revolution, the poor, and pretty much everything Les Miserables was about; the Watch novels against corruption and crime; the Witch novels against stupidity and small-mindedness, and the Death novels against... well, three guesses and the first two don't count... This is a man with a hell of a lot of axes to grind, but it never becomes tiresome to watch him grind them because it's just so much fun you forget that's what you're actually reading, instead of a funny-book with magic.
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Sep 26, 2014 21:02
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Trin Tragula posted:Did you miss the bit where he immediately gets himself made a sergeant and goes round biting Klatchian noses off? "It was only one nose, sir..." That seemed more like a fluke. He seems mostly confused in the scene where he meets Vimes and nothing like that happens again for three nightwatch books.
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Sep 26, 2014 21:03
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Zephyrine posted:That seemed more like a fluke. He seems mostly confused in the scene where he meets Vimes and nothing like that happens again for three nightwatch books. Maybe go back and re-read that scene. He's not confused, he's embarrassed to show such abject bloodthirst to the man he butlers.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:02
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resurgam40 posted:You know, it doesn't surprise me at all that pTerry is driven by rage; I've never really thought about it before, but it really, really fits pretty much every Discworld novel there is. How many problems are created by somebody being angry over a frustrating feature or twist of fate, and how often is that problem solved by the protagonist learning to get angry, and to channel that fury into a positive force? When I read Going Postal, I swear the book was really an war against capitalism and monopolized industries.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:40
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DrNewton posted:When I read Going Postal, I swear the book was really an war against capitalism and monopolized industries. It needed to be said though. People are way too quick to jump on the "private competition will fix it" bandwagon. I consider myself a libertarian but I'm not so naive as to believe that privatizing everything will automatically make it cheaper and more efficient. The Klax (sp?) was a good example considering that these days there are people who argue for the privatization of even the police.
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Sep 27, 2014 18:17
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I don't know if it's really a condemnation of capitalism. Moist's presented as a similar kind of person to Reacher Gilt, and they're both in it for the "love of the game", using much of the same tactics. If anything the moral is to spend your money on something meaningful like stamps, golems and golem ladies, instead of burying it in a field somewhere not even accruing any interest. Especially given that so much of the governing in Ankh-Morpork is contracted out to the guilds... who knows if the establishment would even survive Vetinari's death? I guess at least the Watch has gotten things together.
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Sep 27, 2014 18:49
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Redmark posted:I don't know if it's really a condemnation of capitalism. Moist's presented as a similar kind of person to Reacher Gilt, and they're both in it for the "love of the game", using much of the same tactics. If anything the moral is to spend your money on something meaningful like stamps, golems and golem ladies, instead of burying it in a field somewhere not even accruing any interest. Oh it's totally about capitalism. quote:'Don't patronize me, my lord,' said Gilt. 'We own the Trunk. It is our property. You understand that? Property is the foundation of freedom. Oh, customers complain about the service and the cost,
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Sep 27, 2014 19:01
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Zephyrine posted:Oh it's totally about capitalism. I read that as being about monopolies, not capitalism.
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Sep 27, 2014 20:17
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Zephyrine posted:The Klax (sp?) As in the sound the semaphores make when they open and close... clack, clack, clack.
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Sep 27, 2014 20:28
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Stroth posted:I read that as being about monopolies, not capitalism. Private monopolies where the government is to stay out because "It's a free city"
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Sep 27, 2014 20:28
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Zephyrine posted:Private monopolies where the government is to stay out because "It's a free city" On the other hand, telling Vetinari what he may or may not do is a career-limiting move. If he's in a good mood.
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Sep 27, 2014 20:42
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Stroth posted:I read that as being about monopolies, not capitalism. That's the problem with capitalism, overtime certain business become stronger than others. The little ones close up and before you know it, there is no option but the one business. Then said business money tends to have influence in government policies, thus making it harder for a new business to create competition.
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Sep 27, 2014 21:16
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Stroth posted:I read that as being about monopolies, not capitalism. And the bit where Vetinari decides the appropriate course of action is to arrange things so that he can justify nationalising it...?
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Sep 28, 2014 00:14
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Trin Tragula posted:And the bit where Vetinari decides the appropriate course of action is to arrange things so that he can justify nationalising it...? Actually, Vetinari doesn't nationalise the clacks. It ends with it the hands of the Dearheart family AFAIK.
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Sep 28, 2014 00:55
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DrNewton posted:That's the problem with capitalism, overtime certain business become stronger than others. The little ones close up and before you know it, there is no option but the one business. Then said business money tends to have influence in government policies, thus making it harder for a new business to create competition. The whole point of reopening the post office was to force competition on them. Gravitas Shortfall posted:Actually, Vetinari doesn't nationalise the clacks. It ends with it the hands of the Dearheart family AFAIK. It does. Vetinari doesn't give a drat who's running it as long as it isn't being run in a way that is detrimental to his city. Adora Belle runs the company competently in later books and he's perfectly happy with that.
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Sep 28, 2014 08:43
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All the guilds are already essentially businesses with monopolies over their various areas of interest which makes it pretty clear that Vetinari doesn't seem to give a single poo poo about whether there's competition in the marketplace or whatever, just how it ultimately affects the public interest. He's definitely figured out how to make that work for him/the city (like how the Thieves' guild handles unlicensed thievery) but you'd have a hard time spinning that into a message about being pro-nationalization.
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Sep 28, 2014 10:29
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I read them mostly as arm's length industries that work for the good of the city with profit as an interesting side benefit, because the apparent private dynastic owners/operators are all secretly terrified of getting the arm chopped off if they go properly into business for themselves like Gilt did with the Trunk. Whether that's pro-nationalisation or pro-responsible-capitalism or pro-enlightened-dictatorship...
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Sep 28, 2014 11:47
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Trin Tragula posted:I read them mostly as arm's length industries that work for the good of the city with profit as an interesting side benefit, because the apparent private dynastic owners/operators are all secretly terrified of getting the arm chopped off if they go properly into business for themselves like Gilt did with the Trunk. Whether that's pro-nationalisation or pro-responsible-capitalism or pro-enlightened-dictatorship... I also think that the guilds dealing in more mundane disciplines, clockmaking, artificers, merchants and so on, are more for regulation and tax collection, and have competition within them. Besides having a choice in which craftsman's work you buy, I think its been said advancement among the leadership tends to happen when someone is visited by someone in a cool black gettup.
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Sep 28, 2014 12:43
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The Guilds are of course like unions. People who practise the craft are members. The Guild itself is not the company.
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Sep 28, 2014 12:56
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Stroth posted:The whole point of reopening the post office was to force competition on them. Yes, however through government funding. Thus, the post office, though it makes a profit near the end, it still an PUBLIC service.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:40
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Stroth posted:I read that as being about monopolies, not capitalism. The end result of unfettered capitalism is monopoly.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:34
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Zephyrine posted:The Guilds are of course like unions. People who practise the craft are members. The Guild itself is not the company. The Assassin's Guild is.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:04
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But only because the Guild grew up around the existing and established institution of the Assassin's School, of which there is only the one. I suppose someone could attempt to open a competing school of assassination and higher learning for the affluent and noble youth of the city, but I can't see that going over very well.
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Oct 2, 2014 13:19
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Skippy McPants posted:But only because the Guild grew up around the existing and established institution of the Assassin's School, of which there is only the one. It's likely that Vetinari would have no problem with someone trying to open a rival Assassin school. It's even more likely that he also wouldn't help them at all. I want to read that book now.
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Oct 2, 2014 13:51
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Eh, Vimes, de Worde and von Lipwig are already more or less this. Ankh Morpork is hardly lacking for stories about the plucky new comer barging in and ruffling feathers among the city elite.
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Oct 2, 2014 19:07
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AlphaDog posted:It's likely that Vetinari would have no problem with someone trying to open a rival Assassin school. It's even more likely that he also wouldn't help them at all. He'd probably also commission his own assassination, to be thwarted by Vimes without help. Keep everyone on their toes.
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Oct 2, 2014 19:41
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