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prometheus12345 posted:Imo the Storm of Zehir dialog system was dumb, it only worked somewhat because you didn't play a character but an adventure group. But It also removed any reactivity to your attributes, race or skills, because every group just had all skills available. The player character is the main character, he should make the decisions and the dialogs. Companions should only interrupt the conversation. Because nothing is more immersive than the guy with the decades of woodlands lore not being allowed to say a word in a discussion about the forest because he's not the Chosen One, Player Character and Grognard Avatar.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:21
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Mymla posted:I think Wasteland 2 is a very good game from the few hours I've played of it. Or a pile of poo poo. There is literally a pile of poo poo with an explosive trap set on it. To be fair, if you inspect it before just clicking it to loot, it does give a tongue in cheek message something like "why in the world would anybody set up a trap on a pile of poo poo?!?"
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Oct 1, 2014 20:21
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Torgo2727 posted:"Liberate tuteme ex inferis." Haha, yes!
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Oct 1, 2014 20:22
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lordfrikk posted:The conversations in this and the Wasteland 2 thread really shows the discrepancy between what most people think they want and what do they really enjoy once they get to play the game. I don't think this is true at all. There are aspects of the late 80s/90s CRPGs that people want to play again but that doesn't mean that most reasonable people want absolutely everything about those games exactly duplicated. Unfortunately which aspects should be improved and brought current and which aspects should be left old school vary from person to person so inevitably changes always manage to annoy someone. Despite that I hope Obsidian and other devs tackling old school style games in the future do a better job of finding the middle ground between preserving the old game mechanics warts and all and updating them to modern standards. WL2 is a fun mess but its definitely a mess.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:23
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DatonKallandor posted:Because nothing is more immersive than the guy with the decades of woodlands lore not being allowed to say a word in a discussion about the forest because he's not the Chosen One, Player Character and Grognard Avatar.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:38
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DatonKallandor posted:Because nothing is more immersive than the guy with the decades of woodlands lore not being allowed to say a word in a discussion about the forest because he's not the Chosen One, Player Character and Grognard Avatar Edit: Heh, beaten.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:38
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Access to things npcs bring in conversation that the PC doesn't have access to sounds pretty cool. If you only add things that are functionally different you don't have to worry about the sperg avatar getting shown up or characters getting homogenized by duplicate dialog.
xthetenth fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 21:01
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The Crotch posted:... I think that's why the person you're quoting mentioned dialogue interrupts? Like, if I'm remembering the base NWN2 campaign correctly, there's a bit where if you flub a stealth check in a conversation, Neeshka just grabs you and pulls you behind a box or something. That sort of stuff is fairly standard and I guess you could say, "Hey, there should be more of that stuff," but I don't know if there's really anything wrong with it, especially in a game that has no dialogue-specific skills/attributes. Except it's entirely possible you've got that high woodlore skill on an NPC that isn't a pre-generated one - or it's a pre-gen NPC that you've skilled differently from someone else. You can't script it all for funny quips about things NPCs know because what they know is incredibly hard to determine ahead of time (unless you lock off skill-ups for NPC so the player can't decide them). And what if you don't want to have that NPC speak up about his woodland lore? Maybe you wanna play it dumb, or ask some different questions first. And there's nothing that's stopping the skill-based all-party dialogues (and skill-checks) from coexisting with NPC banter based on their personality and backstory (if they're a premade NPC). I'm not sure where you're getting the idea from that there's no dialogue related skills. Skills, Reputation, Class and Race have huge impacts on dialogues. There's a ton of checks for those in PE (and that's a good thing).
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Oct 1, 2014 23:08
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Speaking as a tabletop GM, "immersion" means funneling all dialogues towards a single character regardless of who is most appropriate at the time, and
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Oct 1, 2014 23:40
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But unironically, for me immersion is a function of primarily having a deep and interesting gameworld with well-developed characters, and secondarily of not having mechanics that get in the way of that due to being annoying or tedious. So being able to auto-loot would actually increase my immersion because I get to spend more time doing dialog/combat/exploration versus clicking on individual crates and corpses.
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Oct 2, 2014 00:04
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Speaking of POE I think there is a risk of its interface feeling kinda. . . scratchy? Like it's a little bit imprecise and finicky and doesn't feel as solid as I remember* the BGs feeling. Part of that is the beta no doubt, but polish has priorities like anything, and i'd like a much better feel to the interface. They talked a lot about the look of the interface, rope kind obv loves the word 'skeuomorphic' and who could blame him, but feel/feedback is important as well- moreso, i'd say. That agenda should extend into the nature of the interface, too. WL2 style loot makes inventory easier to manage, and I think if anything, clicking around on the ground for loot pixels will push the feel and feedback more in that finicky direction, even if it is more like the BG approach. Cthulhuite posted:My favourite part of the last 10-15 pages or so is how Sensuki went from someone who had some interesting and in-depth analysis on game mechanics, stuff which was even looked at by one of the lead developers of the game and has generally been heralded as a Smart Person by the thread, to someone who's gone full-out spergy grognard and advocates outdated mechanics or convoluted systems for the sake of immersion or nostalgia to the revilement of those same posters. A Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 03:09
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Airfoil posted:An organization badly in need of a coat of arms. gently caress everyone who isn't taking this seriously, they are villeins with neither education nor worth. si gaudes, non recte facis. (I have to take some pride in being able to Latin, or else a degree in it just looks sad).
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Oct 2, 2014 07:24
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A Catastrophe posted:
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!
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Oct 2, 2014 08:24
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Sleep of Bronze posted:si gaudes, non recte facis. Thank you. Just made a very good use of this.
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Oct 2, 2014 08:48
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DatonKallandor posted:Except it's entirely possible you've got that high woodlore skill on an NPC that isn't a pre-generated one - or it's a pre-gen NPC that you've skilled differently from someone else. You can't script it all for funny quips about things NPCs know because what they know is incredibly hard to determine ahead of time (unless you lock off skill-ups for NPC so the player can't decide them). And what if you don't want to have that NPC speak up about his woodland lore? Maybe you wanna play it dumb, or ask some different questions first. But you can't really control what a NPC is going to say, it makes sense that elfdude the druid really cares about trees and is going to speak up about it without your consent.
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Oct 2, 2014 08:58
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Sleep of Bronze posted:(I have to take some pride in being able to Latin, or else a degree in it just looks sad). I never for a second doubted that I'd find somebody in this thread with advanced education in a dead language.
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Oct 2, 2014 09:08
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I was quite a fan of the Storm of Zehir dialogue system (which makes sense, what with the Let's Play and all  ) because it meshed well with having a party of blank-slate characters whose personalities you defined yourself. I could decide when a certain character might want to speak up on an issue they care about, and often that character would have a relevant bonus dialogue option from their alignment/race/class/whatever. Picking who gets to speak for the party or who chimes in or asks follow-up questions didn't actually make much of a difference, but it was certainly ~immersive~.I can understand having a dialogue system focused on just the player-character speaking if they're the character the player made and the rest of the party are designed companions, since although you control the companions in combat they're usually meant to feel like secondary support to the PC-as-protagonist. Having them chime in when things matter to them is part of how their personality is outside of the player's control. It's the difference between a party of PCs and a PC with a party of NPCs, I think. The best balance in that case is giving the player dialogue options to ask a character to do something they're good at if they're in the party. As awful as Dragon Age 2 was, that was something they actually remembered to do with their dialogue - if you have a party member with a relevant skill, like being a healer, you can usually ask them to deal with a dialogue-based situation for you. Dolash fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 09:09
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In this game you play a central hero with companions and not a whole party like in Storm of Zehir and IWD. Dialog mechanics like the one in Storm of Zehir are for games where you play the whole party. I don't like to play the whole party, that is why I ignore those games and I don't see a reason to make every game like IWD/storm of Zehir. For me a dialog system like in storm of zehir, conflicts with two of the main points of the kickstarter pitch: quote:Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment. If you don't want a central hero and memorable companions, there are other games for you, but you shouldn't insist that every games removes them.
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Oct 2, 2014 12:33
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Sleep of Bronze posted:gently caress everyone who isn't taking this seriously, they are villeins with neither education nor worth. Interesting choice in translating "[to have] fun"
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Oct 2, 2014 13:45
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We're still working on a lot of the interface feel/responsiveness/clarity issues. I think the BB has improved on it a lot already but there's still more to do. And yes, the reason why we went with the PC always speaking (short of interjections) is because in this story, the PC is the driving/organizing force. The companions have interests that overlap with the PC, but it's not their ship to steer. The reputations that you develop are also based off of the things that your PC is saying/doing, so I think it comes off as odd if just anyone can stand in for your character in those circumstances. *** It's interesting to see how different languages construct the concept of "having" fun or enjoying doing something. In German the thing that "is" fun becomes the subject "making fun" or "making a lot of fun" (z.B. "_____ macht viel Spaß"). If you enjoy doing something, you use the adverb "gern"/"gerne" (gladly), which has the similar etymology to yearn. "Gaudi" also appears in German as a type of festival or as fun itself (though I think that latter use is more southern/regional in Bairisch/Austrian German).
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Oct 2, 2014 14:08
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The main thing I want is to use their abilities. I don't want useless companions who stand by and let me act in ignorance when they can quite easily use their high perception skill and tell me someone's lying.
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Oct 2, 2014 14:10
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Chairchucker posted:The main thing I want is to use their abilities. I don't want useless companions who stand by and let me act in ignorance when they can quite easily use their high perception skill and tell me someone's lying. Especially something like this shows that the storm of Zehir system doesn't work for a central character. In Storm of Zehir the character that detected the lie would show it, but that isn't how it should work. If a companions detects a lie, he needs to tell you that the npc lied. So either he tells you that the npc lies in the conversation, then the npc should react to it. He could also tell you that the npc lied after the conversation or choose to not tell you. For something like this interjections work much better. prometheus12345 fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 14:47
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Chairchucker posted:The main thing I want is to use their abilities. I don't want useless companions who stand by and let me act in ignorance when they can quite easily use their high perception skill and tell me someone's lying. I think this is a fair point, but it could be done as an interjection rather than a check such as a Pallegina: He's lying. Cheers for the avatar Furism btw.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:17
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As long as I can't talk on my party members behalf like I can in Baldur's Gate 2.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:23
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Sensuki posted:Cheers for the avatar Furism btw.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:31
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Blotto Skorzany posted:Interesting choice in translating "[to have] fun" I picked the first close-enough verb that came into my head, I admit, but it'll do for an internet forum translation.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:50
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Sensuki posted:Cheers for the avatar Furism btw. It seemed fitting. You're welcome.
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Oct 2, 2014 16:12
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Sleep of Bronze posted:I picked the first close-enough verb that came into my head, I admit, but it'll do for an internet forum translation. It also works as an allusion to De Brevitate Vitae, which seems appropriate, since life is too short to argue about this poo poo.
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Oct 2, 2014 16:23
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If this is true, WOOHOO! http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?1996-Pillars-of-Eternity-Delayed&s=8edf0e0b206431cb55fd92cb2f562b6a quote:Obsidian Entertainment and Paradox Interactive announced today that the highly anticipated 
Sensuki fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 17:56
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They decided to scrap everything and just re-do it in the Infinity Engine. It is after all what the True Fans™ want.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:13
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Sensuki posted:If this is true, WOOHOO! Yeah I mean I don't want to Star Citizen this thing but the 2014 release date seemed pretty optimistic.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:20
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Aww I was hoping it would come out this year, but if it makes the game better I can't complain.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:22
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Since we've recently had a few pages of Wasteland 2 chat, I was wondering if there was a consensus on which would be the better buy: Wasteland 2 or Divinity Original Sin. I've got a little spare cash this month and I was hoping to pick up something fun. ?
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Oct 2, 2014 18:24
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Spun Dog posted:Since we've recently had a few pages of Wasteland 2 chat, I was wondering if there was a consensus on which would be the better buy: Wasteland 2 or Divinity Original Sin. I've got a little spare cash this month and I was hoping to pick up something fun. They both have some problems (what doesn't?) but it basically boils down to whether you like the old-school feel and setting of Wasteland versus the modernised gameplay and fantasy setting of Divinity.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:27
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As someone who played both, I got more into Wasteland 2, but can't really tell you why. It just clicked more for me. But who knows which you'd enjoy more. They are both quality games so if you like that style, you really can't go wrong.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:29
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Excellent, thanks for the replies. Leaning towards Wasteland 2 due to the setting and the fact that old-school mechanics really don't bother me.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:33
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Yeah I mean I don't want to Star Citizen this thing but the 2014 release date seemed pretty optimistic. Pretty happy it won't be out this year, if that's true. Absolutely saw the need for at least one or two more months of polish. Edit: As for OS vs Wasteland 2, both are good games but for different reasons. Personally I'm more invested in the story in Wasteland 2, in that I actually want to finish it, whereas I'll plonk down and finish OS at some undetermined point in the future because the story just isn't grabbing me.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:35
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Sensuki posted:If this is true, WOOHOO! I thought it was late 2015 so it's actually a good news on my end.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:39
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Spun Dog posted:Since we've recently had a few pages of Wasteland 2 chat, I was wondering if there was a consensus on which would be the better buy: Wasteland 2 or Divinity Original Sin. I've got a little spare cash this month and I was hoping to pick up something fun. I found the combat in D:OS way funner/deeper than WL2, but WL2 does everything else better.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:42
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Sensuki posted:If this is true, WOOHOO! I wonder if they're injecting some of their own/Paradox cash to finish it off. In previous interviews Urquhart was pretty firm that the game would definitely ship in late 2014. Like that was when the money ran out sort of thing. Sort of sad I have to wait longer, but I'm sure it'll make the final game better, so... 
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Oct 2, 2014 18:50
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