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moths posted:Presumably wargaming, there are thousands of preferable endeavors to 40k. It was for me, yeah. The only experience I had for a while was playing lovely board games and various GW games.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:38
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moths posted:Aren't the Man o'Wars and Exemplar Cinerators essentially free in the 2-player starter? They are literally free. The 2-player box is 100 dollars and includes two $50 starter boxes and two more $40 units plus a rule book.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:43
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I recent bought some Warhammer Fantasy stuff (secondhand, of course) because I liked the models, and Fantasy at least is worth playing if you want the models anyway. I wouldn't ever recommend it over Warmachine on it's merits as a wargame though.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:51
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There was a group of 6 dudes next table down playing a big 3 v 3 bolt action game stretched over two tables but I realised, halfway through their game which had once again stopped for a rules argument, they were just using 40k apocalypse rules with bolt action figures, and I was sad. I guess some peeps really do just prefer 40k rules.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:32
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Joe_Richter posted:I guess some peeps really do just prefer 40k rules. No idea why, I don't think I'll ever get enough of it memorised to not be leafing through my 15 page quickstart guide every action of every turn. fool_of_sound posted:I recent bought some Warhammer Fantasy stuff (secondhand, of course) because I liked the models, and Fantasy at least is worth playing if you want the models anyway. I wouldn't ever recommend it over Warmachine on it's merits as a wargame though. Tried using those fantasymans with the Kings of War rules? They're free to try, some people like them a lot more because they're much less clunky, though others hate them because they're much less clunky.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:45
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Tekopo posted:What's within the envelope of 'anything else'? Wargames, games, dares, russian roulette, suicide pacts etc? I dunno, having to sit down to another apocalypse game with someone's really stupid home brewed rules and poo poo giant models would make me seriously contemplate suicide. Russian roulette, 6 players, 2 bullets. The remainder have to play apocalypse. :evilgrin:
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Oct 3, 2014 20:55
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40K isn't anything special, but WFB is a pretty good game. Nobody much plays KoW here, and all the other games seem to be skirmish games versus block infantry games. KoW doesn't seem to have the bait-flee stuff that I rather enjoy, though I don't doubt there's a good bit of strategy to it. I used to also play the hell out of Wargods, but that game's basically dormant right now until the Kickstarter is finished. It's got a good WFB5 ed hero-based feel to it without the stupidity that often happened.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:57
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moths posted:You bring up an interesting point, though. Does anyone legitimately prefer 40k or WHFB rules to ... well anything else? I have a friend who prefers 40k to WMH because to him, there's less likelihood of losing from swingy dice. He plays Gray Knights, incidentally.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:03
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I prefer certain features of the 40K system, like the way it's less about playing three-dimensional chess or stringing together fighting-game style combos (yes, I'm aware that this is an unlikely pair of analogies) and more about being a relatively casual abstraction for two armies of space barbies shooting or chopping at each other. I enjoy premeasuring and true line of sight. For as much as it's become a joke, I enjoy the ideal--if not always the practice--of ~forging the narrative~. What I think people usually associate with the 40k system being poo poo is in the utter lack of balance or good game design evident in some of the choices and the balance of power among the codices, which I by no means deny (and which I'll bemoan as loudly as most folks) but I feel that the ideal of a more narrative, less tactical-grognard ruleset gets unfairly tarred by association.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:05
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Also the rulebook is large, poorly laid out and stuffed to the brim with special rules and tables
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Oct 3, 2014 21:20
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I cant stand their huge, lovingly crafted massive rulebooks if I want a loving artwork book I'll buy one, I just want the loving rules
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Oct 3, 2014 21:27
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I got annoyed by the constant revision of my army. I played Necrons back when they were all metal duders and had an okay force, but they were entirely ground based. I had a bunch of destroyers but they're effectively dudes not vehicles. Went through a dramatic change with the first new codex, still liked my army. I didn't have any vehicles because I didn't want any. New ruleset comes out and it's entirely vehicle focused, which wasn't great. The next new codex comes out and completely changes how the army worked on a mechanical level (I actually kind of like the new fluff, I think the idea of space-Egyptians bro-ing out with Grey Knights is exactly as ridiculous as 40k needs to be) as well as heavily encouraging vehicles. I've done WM since mk1 and never felt like I had to buy new models to be competitive. Really my favorite ruleset for metalmans shooting each other was Confrontation. We played that, never had enough points to do the Ragnarok stuff, but Confrontation was just so good.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:25
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I'd love to try KoW, but no one around here plays it and I'm not sick of WHFB enough to try and convince people to try it although it looks like a stream lined WHFB. Gonna try to push Infinity once my Op:Ice box arrives to get my sci-fi fix though. I put my entire (mostly painted) CSM army up for sale though. I'll probably never touch 40k again.
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Oct 3, 2014 23:29
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fool_of_sound posted:Also, historical minis are cheap because they're (fort he most part) ugly and low detail. This does matter to a lot of people. More skulls = more better/valuable.
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Oct 4, 2014 00:31
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Numlock posted:More skulls = more better/valuable. On historicals, there are lots of cheap low cost figures (esp. Old Glory in the US) but there are also high detail ranges, like the Perry Brothers. Their plastics are as finely detailed as any GW figure, but historicals don't have a ridiculous amounts of detail as GW stuff. Personally, all the extra detail is a turn off to me, hence why I still stick with older, "worse" figures in many cases.
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Oct 4, 2014 00:50
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JerryLee posted:I prefer certain features of the 40K system, like the way it's less about playing three-dimensional chess or stringing together fighting-game style combos (yes, I'm aware that this is an unlikely pair of analogies) and more about being a relatively casual abstraction for two armies of space barbies shooting or chopping at each other. I enjoy premeasuring and true line of sight. For as much as it's become a joke, I enjoy the ideal--if not always the practice--of ~forging the narrative~. There is a huge potential for a storygame RPG overlap with 40k as a miniature game and it will never happen and that makes me legitimately sad. Well, Inquisitor happened, and that was kind of what that was, but that game was hot garbage from the get go so it doesn't really count.
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Oct 4, 2014 00:52
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S.J. posted:There is a huge potential for a storygame RPG overlap with 40k as a miniature game and it will never happen and that makes me legitimately sad. Well, Inquisitor happened, and that was kind of what that was, but that game was hot garbage from the get go so it doesn't really count. Easily the best parts of Inquisitor were the models and the bomb-rear end tables the old GW crew made (and which they detailed how they made in White Dwarf).
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Oct 4, 2014 00:57
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Oh, I should add that Mantic is one company that I think really dunks GW into the dumpster when it comes to that sort of lightweight, get-the-rules-out-of-the-way-so-I-can-watch-my-mans-fight approach. At least with Kings of War (Warpath seems a little bit weirder to me in the current free version of the rules, and I haven't really looked at Deadzone)--they're not only simpler still than Warhammer, but by all accounts much better balanced. I can't wait until I get the chance to start taking up KoW in earnest.
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Oct 4, 2014 01:17
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And of course, dwarfs riding angry badgers
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Oct 4, 2014 01:20
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Numlock posted:RE: That Warmahordes vs 40k price stuff. Flames of War seems hilariously expensive for some mediocre sculpts of tiny mans.
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Oct 4, 2014 01:28
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JerryLee posted:Oh, I should add that Mantic is one company that I think really dunks GW into the dumpster when it comes to that sort of lightweight, get-the-rules-out-of-the-way-so-I-can-watch-my-mans-fight approach. At least with Kings of War (Warpath seems a little bit weirder to me in the current free version of the rules, and I haven't really looked at Deadzone)--they're not only simpler still than Warhammer, but by all accounts much better balanced. I can't wait until I get the chance to start taking up KoW in earnest. I'd like to give KoW a shot but trying to get people to play a large-scale fantasy game that ISN'T WHFB is like pulling teeth. My only real problem I see with the KoW rules, and this is really more a preference, is the lack of granularity in regards to magic. The magic phase in WHFB is pretty messy, true, but I LIKE that there's these kinds of turn-affecting spells and the back-and-forth it has with your opponent. A cleaned-up, balanced kind of magic phase would be wonderful...but hey, if not having it means the game goes quicker and smoother, I'll deal.
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Oct 4, 2014 01:29
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Slimnoid posted:I'd like to give KoW a shot but trying to get people to play a large-scale fantasy game that ISN'T WHFB is like pulling teeth. Yeah, if I had my absolute druthers I would prefer a few more flavorful magic spells rather than just 'Zap' and 'Heal,' and maybe eventually they'll add a few more generic abilities to cover additional areas of the magic-flavor spectrum... but honestly, if they feel they need to err on the side of this massive oversimplification to avoid the quagmire that deeper magic systems can sometimes become (especially when individual army lists have bespoke options) then I'm willing to roll with it for right now. Things like the 6E Divination primaris can gently caress right off forever.
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Oct 4, 2014 01:32
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JerryLee posted:Yeah, if I had my absolute druthers I would prefer a few more flavorful magic spells rather than just 'Zap' and 'Heal,' and maybe eventually they'll add a few more generic abilities to cover additional areas of the magic-flavor spectrum... but honestly, if they feel they need to err on the side of this massive oversimplification to avoid the quagmire that deeper magic systems can sometimes become (especially when individual army lists have bespoke options) then I'm willing to roll with it for right now. Things like the 6E Divination primaris can gently caress right off forever. While it's never going to go to a full phase in its own right, and the spells are never going to be "point at a unit and remove it", magic has come up in the rules committee forum. I quite liked the one that let you push an enemy unit backwards x".
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Oct 4, 2014 01:41
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Numlock posted:More skulls = more better/valuable. 
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Oct 4, 2014 01:43
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WAR FOOT posted:Flames of War seems hilariously expensive for some mediocre sculpts of tiny mans. It is absolutely too expensive for what you're getting. On the other hand, they're cool with you playing with any companies minis as long as they're the right scale!
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Oct 4, 2014 01:59
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WAR FOOT posted:Flames of War seems hilariously expensive for some mediocre sculpts of tiny mans. They are! But a) Their range is ludicrously extensive, and b) Nobody cries foul if you don't use Battlefront models Battlefront also tends to sell things by the unit, which actually makes some of their stuff cheaper. No, really. Because to build a US armored platoon, you don't have to buy a bag or two of infantry, two bags of three halftracks (wasting one), a bag of heavy weapons, a bag of support weapons, bases, and oops you forgot the bag of command figures so you're paying shipping twice. This isn't to say that other companies aren't making $15 bags of 50 guys. They are, and it's a spectacular deal, but sometimes you don't want to carry the 2 liter bottle of Pepsi around. And yet GW has some kind of weird hybrid plan of the two sales models. JerryLee posted:Yeah, if I had my absolute druthers I would prefer a few more flavorful magic spells rather than just 'Zap' and 'Heal,' and maybe eventually they'll add a few more generic abilities to cover additional areas of the magic-flavor spectrum... I'm almost certain I saw this in one of the expansion books. There's a whole list of things you can trade Zap in for.
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Oct 4, 2014 02:23
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moths posted:
That would be neat if so, or if it happens down the line. I've only read the free rules so far.
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Oct 4, 2014 02:25
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JerryLee posted:That would be neat if so, or if it happens down the line. I've only read the free rules so far. It already did! There's a list of six options you can exchange for Zap!, most of them with tradeoffs like shorter range for more damage, in the Basilean Legacy supplement.
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Oct 4, 2014 02:38
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Just looked it up, it's a one-page thing in Basilean Legacy that it gives any unit with Zap a half-dozen additional options.
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Oct 4, 2014 02:38
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moths posted:They are! But Don't forget that a Sherman is a Sherman and won't get errata'ed into uselessness or because a man in a robot piloting a larger robot (JUST LIKE MUH ANIMES) model just got released that does the same thing but better and at lower points. So an army you built in the 90's is just as good now as it was then.
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Oct 4, 2014 04:05
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When I listen to podcasts that mention how expensive Forgeworld stuff is I am a bit amused, since living in Australia the Forgeworld prices are comparable to the prices of normal GW stuff that we get charged.
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Oct 4, 2014 05:13
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Gough Suppressant posted:When I listen to podcasts that mention how expensive Forgeworld stuff is I am a bit amused, since living in Australia the Forgeworld prices are comparable to the prices of normal GW stuff that we get charged. God, that's a weird perk. Forgeworld stuff is universally better.
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Oct 4, 2014 05:34
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Numlock posted:Don't forget that a Sherman is a Sherman and won't get errata'ed into uselessness or because a man in a robot piloting a larger robot (JUST LIKE MUH ANIMES) model just got released that does the same thing but better and at lower points. So an army you built in the 90's is just as good now as it was then. Also a Sherman is a Sherman is a product of the United States government, Battlefront owns none of the units like GW does, which leaves all kinds of companies free to produce their own versions of everything at cheaper prices - Forged in Battle, Plastic Soldier Company, Zvezda, Peter Pig, etc JerryLee posted:That would be neat if so, or if it happens down the line. I've only read the free rules so far. Speaking of, they put up a free version of the Dreadball rules yesterday, and I imagine some version of the Deadzone rules will end up there for free one day as well. Still waiting on the betas for the two new Warpath rulesets, company and mass battle, hopefully they come with Deadzone shipment 3 
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Oct 4, 2014 06:05
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Same
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Oct 4, 2014 09:21
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S.J. posted:There is a huge potential for a storygame RPG overlap with 40k as a miniature game and it will never happen and that makes me legitimately sad. Well, Inquisitor happened, and that was kind of what that was, but that game was hot garbage from the get go so it doesn't really count. Confrontation (the game that inspired Necromunda and Inquisitor) kinda did that. It was still a hot mess, but then RPGs in the 80s were a hot mess so it fit right in.
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Oct 4, 2014 11:18
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NTRabbit posted:Speaking of, they put up a free version of the Dreadball rules yesterday, and I imagine some version of the Deadzone rules will end up there for free one day as well. This was actually prompted by a Goon from the Mantic thread who wants to run an online Dreadball league. It was pretty cool of them to accommodate him.
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Oct 4, 2014 15:14
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moths posted:Presumably wargaming, there are thousands of preferable endeavors to 40k. There are people who still insist Thac0 DnD and save or suck mechanics are great. Consumer products religion man. Quality doesn't matter, only popularity and which one massaged your nerd prostate first. 
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Oct 4, 2014 22:47
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I'm selling my hams and a 2nd edition Blood Bowl Dwarf Team. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3669778 Stop by, take a look, buy my stuff, and become one of the cool kids.
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Oct 5, 2014 03:45
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Gareth Gobulcoque posted:It's the cruel fate that awaits us all. There are no old hams, they become the others, the historical players. This is the natural order of things. You don't HAVE to do that, the Australian Warmachine World Team Championship has Jeff Trasih, Traishy is in his 60's, used to be the world karate champion, coached the Australian Olympic Karate team for a number of years and is a shithot Trollboods player. Further proving Warmachines superiority as a game system.
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Oct 5, 2014 04:54
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Calico Noose posted:You don't HAVE to do that, the Australian Warmachine World Team Championship has Jeff Trasih, Traishy is in his 60's, used to be the world karate champion, coached the Australian Olympic Karate team for a number of years and is a shithot Trollboods player. I think it's because he's a karate grandmaster in a room full of nerds. "If you don't let me assassinate pDenny next turn, I just want you to know, I can kill a man by punching him in the throat."
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Oct 5, 2014 05:16
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