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spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

lime rind posted:

Now that I've been climbing several times, I can tell I want to keep doing it. It's time to buy some equipment, but I have a couple questions.

I'm stuck between two shoes. I'd like the La Sportiva Tarantulas, but my local store only has Tarantulaces. Both are made from leather and are at a price point I like, but the Tarantulas have Velcro straps. That seems convenient for the gym. However, I'm leaning to the Tarantulaces because buying from the store will provide me with an extra discount. Should I ignore the strap/lace decision and go for the discount?

I'm thinking of getting a pair of those glasses some people use for belaying. My neck was getting pretty tired after belaying someone stuck high up on a problem. Is there anything I should try (common mistakes to avoid?) before going that route?

I prefer velcro myself for gym, bouldering, and sport. I just pop them off too much really.

Belay specs are indeed bad rear end. Gamera009 has a pair, super cool. That said I recently have tried to take the approach of belaying more by feel. On top rope there is basically no reason to look up, keep the rope tight and kind of know how much rope you will pull to get them to the top and glance a few times. If they need help with the moves though it can get annoying. On lead I note all the locations where a fall could result in a decking or some other serious problem and look through those sections, also if I can see them I will watch while they clip since a bunch of extra rope can be out at this time. But there are lots of times where you can't see the person or hear them and you just go by feel.

But belay specs are bad rear end and I am probably going to get some for next season. Especially if you are being a belay bitch for everyone.

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Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

lime rind posted:

"Tarantulace"

I'm thinking of getting a pair of those glasses some people use for belaying. My neck was getting pretty tired after belaying someone stuck high up on a problem. Is there anything I should try (common mistakes to avoid?) before going that route?

I would skip the glasses and get nicer shoes. But if you're dead set on them, be aware of your situation, you can end up with tunnel vision and not actually see your partner any better. And also misstep and fall over.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

I would say the shoes are fine for someone who has climbed 'Several Times'.

gamera009
Apr 7, 2005

Specs save your neck. As someone with a legit neck injury, the specs are a loving godsend.

lime rind
Jul 10, 2014

Squiggle posted:

edit: I would pay...mmmm $15 extra to get the strap version if it existed, but I am a spendthrift
Heh, I would save $20 going the Tarantulace route.

spwrozek posted:

That said I recently have tried to take the approach of belaying more by feel. On top rope there is basically no reason to look up, keep the rope tight and kind of know how much rope you will pull to get them to the top and glance a few times.
That's a good point. I was afraid of looking down because I took to heart the "no distractions" rule of belaying, but there were definitely places where I would have been fine keeping a brake on the rope until I noticed the rope slacken.

Speleothing posted:

I would skip the glasses and get nicer shoes. But if you're dead set on them, be aware of your situation, you can end up with tunnel vision and not actually see your partner any better. And also misstep and fall over.
I'm open to other shoes, but as a beginner I'd rather keep cost down until I feel like I'd take advantage of features on better shoes. I could spend a little bit more than the Tarantulas, but unfortunately I don't remember what else is available at the store.

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-
Make sure you try both types on if possible, velcro and laceups don't always have the same fit in my experience with Sportiva shoes. The Miura laceups fit me great for instance, but I didn't like the velcros. For Katanas it was the other way around.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

big scary monsters posted:

Make sure you try both types on if possible, velcro and laceups don't always have the same fit in my experience with Sportiva shoes. The Miura laceups fit me great for instance, but I didn't like the velcros. For Katanas it was the other way around.

That's because the Miura and the Katana lace/velcro's are misnamed. The Katana Velcro is more similar in some aspects of its shape to the Miura lace and vice-versa. They really all four ought to have totally different names, because they're so strangely crossbred and share some aspects but not others. Crazy Italians :eng101:


Edit: to my knowledge this problem is not present in the other models

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 30, 2014

AriTheDog
Jul 29, 2003
Famously tasty.

lime rind posted:

Heh, I would save $20 going the Tarantulace route.

That's a good point. I was afraid of looking down because I took to heart the "no distractions" rule of belaying, but there were definitely places where I would have been fine keeping a brake on the rope until I noticed the rope slacken.

I'm open to other shoes, but as a beginner I'd rather keep cost down until I feel like I'd take advantage of features on better shoes. I could spend a little bit more than the Tarantulas, but unfortunately I don't remember what else is available at the store.

As a beginner the Tarantulas will likely be fine until you wear them out. Get any comfortable not-too-aggressive shoe. As long as it's snug enough to not shift around on you it'll be fine. I would definitely not get something tight enough that you want to be constantly pulling them off because the advantages tight fitting aggressive shoes provide are simply not relevant to the beginning climber.

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-

Speleothing posted:

That's because the Miura and the Katana lace/velcro's are misnamed. The Katana Velcro is more similar in some aspects of its shape to the Miura lace and vice-versa. They really all four ought to have totally different names, because they're so strangely crossbred and share some aspects but not others. Crazy Italians :eng101:


Edit: to my knowledge this problem is not present in the other models

Haha, well that makes sense then! By far my favourite shoes, especially for bouldering, but yeah the differences in fit are weird.

Dutymode
Dec 31, 2008
I went through 2 pairs of Tarantulas and a resole before I got more aggressive (expensive) shoes and I was happy with them.

Also, velcro all the way. Can your store order them for you?

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

big scary monsters posted:

Haha, well that makes sense then! By far my favourite shoes, especially for bouldering, but yeah the differences in fit are weird.

BTW, if you like the fit on the Katana Lace, you might as well just strait upgrade to the TC Pro for only $30 more.

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-

Speleothing posted:

BTW, if you like the fit on the Katana Lace, you might as well just strait upgrade to the TC Pro for only $30 more.

I prefer the velcros, but thanks. Always keen to try new shoes, although I've just bought a pair of Miuras and had my knackered old Boreal Stingmas resoled, they're really nice as all day shoes. Was a bit shocked how much prices have gone up since I last bought shoes though, my last Miuras were about £80 I think and I paid £115 this time. :(

lime rind
Jul 10, 2014
Continuing new gear discussion, are there other checks I should make on a new harness other than looking at the stitching?

ConspicuousEvil
Feb 29, 2004
Pillbug

lime rind posted:

Continuing new gear discussion, are there other checks I should make on a new harness other than looking at the stitching?

A NEW harness? Make sure you think it's comfortable. There shouldn't be any need to check the stitching unless you're worried about some kind of manufacturer defect.

lime rind
Jul 10, 2014
Yeah, manufacturing defects were what I was thinking about. But nevermind, mine came with detailed instructions on how to inspect it.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

lime rind posted:

Yeah, manufacturing defects were what I was thinking about. But nevermind, mine came with detailed instructions on how to inspect it.

Buy from a reputable brand and you won't have to worry.

horse_ebookmarklet
Oct 6, 2003

can I play too?
Got to climb real rock for the first time this past weekend, quite a different experience than the gym! About 10 months in the gym, about one month lead climbing. I go to the gym at least 2x week.
For the most part climbing on limestone was a great experience, though I'm really quite surprised how spaced out the bolts can be. In the gym I've taken lead falls, but I've always been in at least two clips. This past trip I was on a route outside my skill level, attempting to clip into the first bolt and lost a foothold. I was on the ground before I knew what to do! Mostly injured my confidence. A buddy ended up leading the route and I was able to complete it top rope (not cleanly).

In the gym the first bolt is often within reach of the first two moves. Sometimes the first bolt is reachable from the ground. Each bolt thereafter another two or three moves. Outside I'm a good body length off the ground (or more) before the first clip. On the same trip a different route I lead I would have absolutely decked if I didn't make the second clip. (route was well within my ability)
Its pretty unnerving, and makes me wonder if I should be placing pro on some of these bolted routes. Maybe a crash pad? I don't know.

burns_2k
Oct 17, 2012
I might be worth looking at getting a clip stick? Never tried one myself but I've watched people using them and they look handy for that kind of situation.

asur
Dec 28, 2012
Additional pro won't help that much, you have to place it, assuming you can even do so, and there are still going to be spots where you'll deck. This is just something you have to get over climbing outside. Stick clipping can help, but in most cases just isn't necessary. In general while climbing outside you need to be aware of what will happen if you fall and have an escape Plan if you aren't confident in the move.

I also think you have a misconceptions about gym lead climbing. If you fall at the second or third clip, especially if you're attempting to clip, chances are high that you'll either deck or hit your belayer.

tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite
You know what sucks? Breaking your ankle on a warmup.

But seriously, build a stick clip. It's like $20 for a painter's pole, alligator clip, and two hose clamps.

sat on my keys!
Oct 2, 2014

asur posted:

I also think you have a misconceptions about gym lead climbing. If you fall at the second or third clip, especially if you're attempting to clip, chances are high that you'll either deck or hit your belayer.

Even if the bolts are only separated by "two or three moves"? My gym puts bolts on in a similar way and I have fallen at 2nd/3rd clip many times and failed to deck/hit my belayer. Maybe my belayers are keeping me too tight? Unless these routes are really reachy I'm finding this hard to visualize.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

horse_ebookmarklet posted:

Got to climb real rock for the first time this past weekend, quite a different experience than the gym! About 10 months in the gym, about one month lead climbing. I go to the gym at least 2x week.
For the most part climbing on limestone was a great experience, though I'm really quite surprised how spaced out the bolts can be. In the gym I've taken lead falls, but I've always been in at least two clips. This past trip I was on a route outside my skill level, attempting to clip into the first bolt and lost a foothold. I was on the ground before I knew what to do! Mostly injured my confidence. A buddy ended up leading the route and I was able to complete it top rope (not cleanly).

In the gym the first bolt is often within reach of the first two moves. Sometimes the first bolt is reachable from the ground. Each bolt thereafter another two or three moves. Outside I'm a good body length off the ground (or more) before the first clip. On the same trip a different route I lead I would have absolutely decked if I didn't make the second clip. (route was well within my ability)
Its pretty unnerving, and makes me wonder if I should be placing pro on some of these bolted routes. Maybe a crash pad? I don't know.

Run out is the best. You can't be afraid of it. When you fell where was your spotter/belayer at? He really has nothing to do but make sure you don't break an ankle until you clip. You should be game planning what will happen if you fall and how you will manage it.

burns_2k posted:

I might be worth looking at getting a clip stick? Never tried one myself but I've watched people using them and they look handy for that kind of situation.


tortilla_chip posted:

You know what sucks? Breaking your ankle on a warmup.

But seriously, build a stick clip. It's like $20 for a painter's pole, alligator clip, and two hose clamps.

Top rope climbing bores me, even up to one bolt. Do whatever makes you feel good though really.


bartlebyshop posted:

Even if the bolts are only separated by "two or three moves"? My gym puts bolts on in a similar way and I have fallen at 2nd/3rd clip many times and failed to deck/hit my belayer. Maybe my belayers are keeping me too tight? Unless these routes are really reachy I'm finding this hard to visualize.

Or you have a good belayer who pays attention and is making sure you don't deck. Good belaying at times like this is super important. The belayer can't prevent everything but with good foresight they can save you some pain. Also don't be afraid to move past a bolt. If the bolt is at the top of your head you are pulling out 6-8' of rope to clip it, Move up the face and clip at your waist and you only added 3' of rope.

spwrozek fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Oct 3, 2014

sat on my keys!
Oct 2, 2014

spwrozek posted:

Or you have a good belayer who pays attention and is making sure you don't deck. Good belaying at times like this is super important. The belayer can't prevent everything but with good foresight they can save you some pain. Also don't be afraid to move past a bolt. If the bolt is at the top of your head you are pulling out 6-8' of rope to clip it, Move up the face and clip at your waste and you only added 3' of rope.

Yes, this was the image in my head. I'm a big fan of the "clip between waist and collarbones" rule. I guess I could see the deck happening at bolt 2 if you are stretching above yourself to clip.

horse_ebookmarklet
Oct 6, 2003

can I play too?
Had not heard of a stick clip before, interesting. I'll buy an A-Clamp and telescoping rod for next outing. I'm definitely still establishing confidence and ability for lead, I think a stick clip outdoors and more lead gym time is a neat idea for now.

The gym I climb at the clips are so frequent I've actually almost missed clips because I don't expect one so immediately. While I have been concerned about hitting my belayer (if they come to the first clip), I've never looked at a gym route and thought "my ankles are going to explode". It was a huge adjustment in expectations going outside. Seems that the gym is being very conservative in bolt placement. The outdoor route I was able lead was fun, but that nagging feeling of danger is stronger than in the gym.

My belayer did a great job when I fell; kept my head up and away from the pointy rocks on the ground. I became very aware I need to learn to fall better & have a game plan for a fall after that first outdoors trip. I've never been much for bouldering, but I can now see the utility in spending some time bouldering in the gym and learning to fall. I did get some nasty scrapes & bruises (pointy rocks had to go somewhere), but no broken bones or injured joints.

CoasterMaster
Aug 13, 2003

The Emperor of the Rides


Nap Ghost
Lead climbing is badass (or at least I feel pretty badass doing it).

Tried leading my first 5.10b in the gym and almost made it! I was trying to clip in to the 5th (and final before the anchor) quickdraw, but I fumbled a bit with the quickdraw and lost my grip. Took a pretty fun fall too :).

So that being said, this particular route is on a 45 degree roof and the hold I was using was a large jug that I couldn't wrap my hand around (think a sphere, flat on top, mounted in to the wall). I was able to get my hand on top of it (between the top of hold and the wall), but I didn't have a confident grip on it and like I said, my hand slipped and I fell. How the hell are you supposed to hang on to these? Granted, I spent a few precious extra seconds messing with the quickdraw, but I think even if I made the clip perfectly, I don't know if my hand would have lasted much longer.

Sorry if that hold/problem description didn't make sense, I don't know how else to describe it :)

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

^Lead climbing is indeed bad rear end.

Fun day of climbing! Went to Cats Vs Dogs Wall mostly to get on Out of the Blue for my buddies first mutli-pitch. We climbed Stray Cat first which was a spicy (and kind of dirty and crumbly) 5.8. Out of the Blue was cool. I lead the first pitch which was the harder and more fun of the two. We brought up his fiance in the middle as well. Really makes me want a new rope though that is bi-pattern.

Decided that his fiance needed to get on her first lead so we went over to East Colfax and she got on a 5.5 and a 5.8 and did pretty well. We decided to go give the 10c roof a try despite being pretty tired. I was able to get through it after 2 takes. I probably should have had it clean but my hands were just killing me. Oh well.

We then went to drink beer and eat pizza. Good times.

ConspicuousEvil
Feb 29, 2004
Pillbug

CoasterMaster posted:

So that being said, this particular route is on a 45 degree roof and the hold I was using was a large jug that I couldn't wrap my hand around (think a sphere, flat on top, mounted in to the wall). I was able to get my hand on top of it (between the top of hold and the wall), but I didn't have a confident grip on it and like I said, my hand slipped and I fell. How the hell are you supposed to hang on to these? Granted, I spent a few precious extra seconds messing with the quickdraw, but I think even if I made the clip perfectly, I don't know if my hand would have lasted much longer.

Sorry if that hold/problem description didn't make sense, I don't know how else to describe it :)

Nice! Soon you'll get a better feel for when you clip and when to shake so that you basically know whether you'll be able to clip or not. Basically you don't want to get into a habit of blowing clips, especially outside.

Not really sure what kind of hold you're talking about, but it sounds like a sloper and that just comes with practice. You'll learn what kind of body tension and position you'll need, so that eventually it'll feel like a jug. This is where bouldering on lots of varied terrain so you get used to more and different kinds of holds.

Anyone psyched on any projects this weekend? I'm getting out to my 13c project tomorrow, hoping to send!!!

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

ConspicuousEvil posted:

Anyone psyched on any projects this weekend? I'm getting out to my 13c project tomorrow, hoping to send!!!

Got on that Multi-Pitch. Looking at hitting another one next weekend. Probably should start pushing the 10c/d grades outside on lead.

I am planning on a gym membership this winter instead of only skiing. Planning on being able to get at the 11's next year.

Also trying to throw together a last minute trip down to Shelf Road before ski season gets going.

Bud Manstrong
Dec 11, 2003

The Curse of the Flying Criosphinx

spwrozek posted:

Also trying to throw together a last minute trip down to Shelf Road before ski season gets going.
When were you thinking? I've been thinking about a weekend down at Shelf after we get back from the Red.

Chris!
Dec 2, 2004

E
Well I've been climbing outside every Sunday over the summer but it's now too wet to climb on my local southern sandstone, so I guess that's me done with outdoor climbing this year unless the weather dramatically improves :(

But I will be heading to the gym later today and will be MASTERING LEAD CLIMBING (inside) this winter! Instead of just flopping off the wall half way up like I usually do.

I climbed a bunch in Vietnam and Cambodia this summer as well, which was absolutely incredible (I'd not climbed overseas before and limestone has ruined climbing on sandstone for me), I will upload some pictures when I get time.

Sigmund Fraud
Jul 31, 2005

Any Stockholm climber lurking here interested in getting out to pull on some granite this fall? I'm always keen for some Örnberget.

How do you overseas finance bolting routes? Here its like 20% private donations and the rest out of your own pocket. It's so drat expensive to bolt. One 4 bolt route cost me and my buddy like 100 USD.

gamera009
Apr 7, 2005

Gym situation in Boulder is dire. Everyone is hiking rates or cutting the CU Alpine club discounts. :iiam:

Chasing 12b this winter. No idea where though.

Almost flashed a Movement 12b on top rope. Felt good.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

Bud Manstrong posted:

When were you thinking? I've been thinking about a weekend down at Shelf after we get back from the Red.

Not sure really. Probably late October or early November. I have never been down there so it will take some planning or picking up the guide book. Probably do a Friday-Sunday trip. My buddy gets every other Friday off so I guess it would be either October 31st or November 14th. Which probably means the 14th. Not sure if that is getting too late though.

I would be fun to get a bit of a group to head down though.


gamera009 posted:

Gym situation in Boulder is dire. Everyone is hiking rates or cutting the CU Alpine club discounts. :iiam:

I think I am going to end up at the Earthtreks gym this winter but good grief is it expensive. $89 for a month....

They do have a year round membership but it is $59 to join and then $69 a month. There is about 0% chance I would use the gym from May - November though.

Work will give me $20 back if I go to the gym 8 times a month though.

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

spwrozek posted:

I think I am going to end up at the Earthtreks gym this winter but good grief is it expensive. $89 for a month....

They do have a year round membership but it is $59 to join and then $69 a month. There is about 0% chance I would use the gym from May - November though.

Work will give me $20 back if I go to the gym 8 times a month though.

I'm a member there (edit: not in Golden), it's not cheap but I don't think it's unreasonable given how often I use it, and it has some side benefits. I like the weekly yoga class, there's a (small) gym, and they do all kinds of clinics.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

guppy posted:

I'm a member there (edit: not in Golden), it's not cheap but I don't think it's unreasonable given how often I use it, and it has some side benefits. I like the weekly yoga class, there's a (small) gym, and they do all kinds of clinics.

It seems like a good place, the Golden one is pretty sweet.

My planned schedule looks like this:

Monday Night Climb
Tuesday Night Yoga
Wednesday Night Climb
Thursday Night Drive to Vail
Friday Work/Ski
Saturday Ski
Sunday Ski

Basically I need to be able to get the climbing and yoga in Monday to Wednesday to make it worth it. Also need to find a partner or two willing to go to the gym.

gamera009
Apr 7, 2005

spwrozek posted:

It seems like a good place, the Golden one is pretty sweet.

My planned schedule looks like this:

Monday Night Climb
Tuesday Night Yoga
Wednesday Night Climb
Thursday Night Drive to Vail
Friday Work/Ski
Saturday Ski
Sunday Ski

Basically I need to be able to get the climbing and yoga in Monday to Wednesday to make it worth it. Also need to find a partner or two willing to go to the gym.

My climbing partner and I refuse to drive to golden. I commute far enough already, no desire to commute even more.

Stupid expensive gyms.

Endjinneer
Aug 17, 2005
Fallen Rib

CoasterMaster posted:

...this particular route is on a 45 degree roof and the hold I was using was a large jug that I couldn't wrap my hand around (think a sphere, flat on top, mounted in to the wall). I was able to get my hand on top of it (between the top of hold and the wall), but I didn't have a confident grip on it and like I said, my hand slipped and I fell. How the hell are you supposed to hang on to these?

Sorry if that hold/problem description didn't make sense, I don't know how else to describe it :)

Don't go over the top of it. Imagine the handhold is a car bonnet you're you're trying to force open.
Undercut it by putting your hand on the lower side of it, the side towards your feet. Your arm should be straight and by pushing with your feet and using body tension, you'll keep your grip.

Ideally your weight is below the sphere when you move onto it, otherwise your torso is going to swing and that'll be very hard to control.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

horse_ebookmarklet posted:

Had not heard of a stick clip before, interesting. I'll buy an A-Clamp and telescoping rod for next outing. I'm definitely still establishing confidence and ability for lead, I think a stick clip outdoors and more lead gym time is a neat idea for now.

The gym I climb at the clips are so frequent I've actually almost missed clips because I don't expect one so immediately. While I have been concerned about hitting my belayer (if they come to the first clip), I've never looked at a gym route and thought "my ankles are going to explode". It was a huge adjustment in expectations going outside. Seems that the gym is being very conservative in bolt placement. The outdoor route I was able lead was fun, but that nagging feeling of danger is stronger than in the gym.

My belayer did a great job when I fell; kept my head up and away from the pointy rocks on the ground. I became very aware I need to learn to fall better & have a game plan for a fall after that first outdoors trip. I've never been much for bouldering, but I can now see the utility in spending some time bouldering in the gym and learning to fall. I did get some nasty scrapes & bruises (pointy rocks had to go somewhere), but no broken bones or injured joints.

glad you didn't get seriously injured! stick clipping is indeed the answer to your problem, but it's also worth just assessing what type of climbs you're getting on. is the crux typically before the 2nd bolt, or even before the 1st? i think this is a characteristic that is often common to entire climbing areas. in areas like this, stick clipping is typically standard practice. even if the crux isn't low, some areas just have extraordinarily high first bolts, where a fall could be pretty serious and stick clipping is not just standard practice, but assumed by the route's equippers.

all that said, there are many areas/climbs (probably the majority) where the first bolt is not that high and the initial climbing is not that hard, that a stick clip is more trouble than it's worth. i think it's good practice to avoid stick clipping in these situations, just to build your lead head. it also forces (or should force) you to be extremely mindful of your technique and footwork -- i'm way less likely to climb carelessly/sloppily if a fall means i might deck -- which is good practice. as with anything in climbing, you're the ultimate decider of your personal risk tolerance, so do whatever you enjoy most and don't let extremists* tell you otherwise

*those that think stick clipping is an offense equal to retrobolting splitter cracks in yosemite, as well as those that think that the best way to stick clip is to have a pole that can telescope all the way to the anchors :)

Bud Manstrong
Dec 11, 2003

The Curse of the Flying Criosphinx

spwrozek posted:

It seems like a good place, the Golden one is pretty sweet.

My planned schedule looks like this:

Monday Night Climb
Tuesday Night Yoga
Wednesday Night Climb
Thursday Night Drive to Vail
Friday Work/Ski
Saturday Ski
Sunday Ski

Basically I need to be able to get the climbing and yoga in Monday to Wednesday to make it worth it. Also need to find a partner or two willing to go to the gym.

I'll burn out my punch pass there. Not sure how many I've got left.

Oct. 31 would probably be better for me for shelf, but let me know either way. It's always fun to have a big group to hang out with at the end of the day, even if you're splitting up climbing.

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Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

also fwiw i'm sitting in the lexington airport drinking a kentucky brewery bourbon barrel ale waiting for my ride to show up for a week trip to the RRG :c00l:

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