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Jeffrey posted:Elbereth in nethack is similarly dumb in its game-changing to obtuseness ratio, whether the oracle tells you about it or not. Didn't Elbereth use to be a debug code until someone leaked the secret?
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Oct 6, 2014 16:51
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Didn't Elbereth use to be a debug code until someone leaked the secret? That's pretty strange if it's true, nethack has wizard mode after all. Also it's an open source game so all the cards are on the table.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:03
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Kobold Sex Tape posted:It's probably best for the game that the exploits have been fixed, but on the other hand I really want to infitely double my gold by giving it to dragons until it becomes Negative Gold, then commit an endless drowning of constantly multiple gremlins to create an engine of infinite wishes using lovely rings and potions, and finish my ADOM session by praying thousands of times until my god hates me so much that he loves me endlessly. And also at some point starve and sicken myself so that when I eat plants I become a superman. I don't know what any of this means but it makes me wish I'd picked up ADOM sooner.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:58
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Honestly that post really makes me think of IVAN. Throw bottles in front of your townsfolk so they bleed to death from glass lacerations in their feet, then steal all their bananas, then tap-dance on the broken glass until your legs explode, then pray for magical legs made of iron. Then eat all the bananas so you're fat and can fight the sumo wrestler, and use your iron legs to overpower him and win his antigravity belt. Karate kick land mines at bosses and scum intelligence scrolls until you can talk to dolphins. Accidentally eat your own leg and get smitten by your god for offending him with cannibalism. IVAN is a weird, horrible, hateful game. I need to play it again.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:02
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Angry Diplomat posted:Honestly that post really makes me think of IVAN. Throw bottles in front of your townsfolk so they bleed to death from glass lacerations in their feet, then steal all their bananas, then tap-dance on the broken glass until your legs explode, then pray for magical legs made of iron. Then eat all the bananas so you're fat and can fight the sumo wrestler, and use your iron legs to overpower him and win his antigravity belt. Karate kick land mines at bosses and scum intelligence scrolls until you can talk to dolphins. Accidentally eat your own leg and get smitten by your god for offending him with cannibalism. It is a GREAT game if you want to die in hilarious ways. I am always afraid when i find a remotely useful item.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:07
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Michael Jackson posted:It is a GREAT game if you want to die in hilarious ways. I am always afraid when i find a remotely useful item. That's because remotely useful items literally directly increase your chances of dying. IVAN tracks your equipment (and limbs!!) and scales the danger level based upon how comparatively well-geared you are. There are guides out there saying that e.g. Leather Armour of Great Health or whatever is actually a death sentence, as the benefit it imparts is hugely outweighed by the hilariously strong enemies you will immediately start to encounter. IVAN is a motherfucker of a game 
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Oct 6, 2014 18:10
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Isn't there a strategy where you drop your entire inventory on the ground before going down any staircase in order to generate the level at a lower threat level?
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Oct 6, 2014 18:12
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Isn't there a strategy where you drop your entire inventory on the ground before going down any staircase in order to generate the level at a lower threat level? There are all kinds of wonky strategies but sooner or later you're going to slip on a banana peel and somehow set yourself on fire and the wand you forgot you picked up will explode and blow off your legs and when you pray for new ones they'll be made of granite and you'll be so slow that when you take a step a goblin runs around the corner and cuts off both your arms and then you pray for new arms and your god gets mad at you and turns your legs into something weak and the goblin breaks your legs and punches you in the groin until you manage to roll away but whoops you rolled onto a land mine and every part of you was severed simultaneously. You died. I really, really want to play IVAN now.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:15
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Angry Diplomat posted:Honestly that post really makes me think of IVAN. Throw bottles in front of your townsfolk so they bleed to death from glass lacerations in their feet, then steal all their bananas, then tap-dance on the broken glass until your legs explode, then pray for magical legs made of iron. Then eat all the bananas so you're fat and can fight the sumo wrestler, and use your iron legs to overpower him and win his antigravity belt. Karate kick land mines at bosses and scum intelligence scrolls until you can talk to dolphins. Accidentally eat your own leg and get smitten by your god for offending him with cannibalism. Oh man, I only figured out you can kick bananas away from the drop point to make them yours, failing to talk up the villagers to get more wisdom/intelligence, and then failing at scumming in the first dungeon. The right way to play IVAN is not to play it the way the developers intended. Winning the game is a bug.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:17
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Ironically (yet appropriately for IVAN), the best IVAN character I ever had was a silly gimmick intended to die rapidly. I glassed off my own legs and got legs made of loving octiron (incredibly heavy super iron) from the smithing deity, and immediately proceeded to remedy absolutely every problem with kicks. Strong enemy? Kick him in the dick. Land mine? Kick it down the hallway. Locked chest? Kick it until it breaks. Kicks. I kicked that screaming sonic-damage boss monster to death, then went down some stairs and met a dominatrix who whipped me in the face so hard that my head flew off.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:21
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Did anything ever come of the IVAN revivification project?
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Oct 6, 2014 18:28
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I would probably play a small sum for six 5-minute episodes of IVAN: The Animated Series.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:48
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fond IVAN memories: having a land mine go off and not kill you, but it snaps your teleport wand in half which makes your head teleport off of your body and kill you
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Oct 6, 2014 18:49
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Buck Turgidson posted:ADOM's command list is completely ridiculous. The one that sticks out in my memory is picking up items "in a comfortable way" or "primitively"... I don't think I ever used them so I don't know what they do. It just sounded so pointless. In games like that the list of commands wouldn't be an issue if the game actually had a decent UI and presented your options a bit better. If you have a clear idea of what you can do it can go a long way towards making a game less obtuse and might put more creative approaches to problems at the forefront of the player's mind. Like maybe putting beeswax in my ears isn't so ridiculous and might actually occur naturally to the player if your inventory is laid out better or you can see what commands you can apply to a given item in your possession. The pickups are just ";" which when standing on a pile of loot will say "Do you want to pick up the dagger? Y. Do you want to pick up the orc corpse? N. etc...", "," which on a pile will bring up a list of all the loot in an inventory style screen and let you hit C to pick up the 250 gold pieces, and I think control+; or comma to bring up the inventory style one, but you can mark the items and pick them up up together. I always just use ; and , for grabbing stuff. I do remember seeing the Face/Ears commands when I was first learning the game, and wandering around blindly from mud until I died waiting for it go away on its own. (And yes you get +1 appearance from the mud bath!) ADOM is still very old fashioned and I'd have much less patience for it if I began playing it for the first time today than a decade ago when the idea of a roguelike was brand new to me (until I realized I was playing ascii Castle of the Winds with permadeath). I don't think any old bug will ever beat the Khelly crash though.  Edit: What really surprises me about the new releases is that missile are still absurdly good. If you get the right kind of slaying ammo you can kill any of the orb guadians in probably 4 attacks tops. My first win was a paladin and every fight other than the water temple was me meleeing and drinking an absurd amount of potions of extra healing Dr. Dos fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 19:00
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:fond IVAN memories: having a land mine go off and not kill you, but it snaps your teleport wand in half which makes your head teleport off of your body and kill you Oh my god, I remember having this happen! Once I realized what the gently caress had happened I started laughing hysterically, and when my wife asked what the hell I was laughing at, my explanation just made her stare at me with an increasingly quizzical expression while I laughed harder and harder. gently caress it, I'm reinstalling IVAN.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:09
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And how about that Bridge Building skill.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:10
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Used in one very specific instance that could also be overcome by liberal application of ice spells and less weight on your character!
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Oct 6, 2014 19:13
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Angry Diplomat posted:gently caress it, I'm reinstalling IVAN.  This was a good decision.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:15
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As someone who has only tried each a couple of dozen times over the course of several years i find IVAN to be far easier than nethack.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:25
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So, decided to give Sil another shot and did pretty good with a sword swinging singing elf. But listen up, Least of All Balrogs is still a loving balrog! Especially 100 depth lower than normal. ._.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:35
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Pladdicus posted:So, decided to give Sil another shot and did pretty good with a sword swinging singing elf. Supposed to learn Sil as a Solid Snake Archer Elf. C'mon.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:39
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Never uninstall IVAN.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:41
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Dr. Dos posted:Edit: What really surprises me about the new releases is that missile are still absurdly good. If you get the right kind of slaying ammo you can kill any of the orb guadians in probably 4 attacks tops. My first win was a paladin and every fight other than the water temple was me meleeing and drinking an absurd amount of potions of extra healing Not only are missiles still absurd (oneshotting ancient chaos wyrm rules), but the ammo artifacts are possibly the two best items in the game now! They're absolutely bonkers powerful, which I guess makes up for being completely worthless for like 13 years. My mindcrafter who had basically no training with bows destroyed D50 with the True Aim granted to him on D49. It was great.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:43
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Beamed posted:Supposed to learn Sil as a Solid Snake Archer Elf. C'mon. But my precious 1xp per kill!
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Oct 6, 2014 19:43
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Pladdicus posted:But my precious 1xp per kill! Alternatively, But mooom I wanna be Fingolfin!
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Oct 6, 2014 20:20
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I think I'm about done with Hoplite. The only achievements I have left are the Speedrun (best shot was dying on floor 14 in 147 turns, and I haven't come close to repeating it since), beat the game without killing any demolitionists or wizards (gently caress you), get from floor 16 to floor 20 without killing any monsters (gently caress YOU), and Hoplite Master, and I don't think I'm ever going to manage any of them.
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Oct 6, 2014 22:04
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Angry Diplomat posted:
I need to see if I can win it again in a version that has patched out the exploit where you turn chests into earwax, then eat the earwax to obtain deity-level intelligence and wisdom and transform all your gear and your limbs into Golden Eagle Feathers, which I'm pretty sure you can only even discover exist as a material by diving into the source code. What's the latest/best revived version?
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Oct 6, 2014 22:16
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The reason being that this earwax is from IVAN's unknown animal, the ommel. It's other bodily fluids are also beneficial to you, including the urine, sweat and tears! Looks like latest is still 0.5.
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Oct 6, 2014 22:33
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ProfessorProf posted:I think I'm about done with Hoplite. The only achievements I have left are the Speedrun (best shot was dying on floor 14 in 147 turns, and I haven't come close to repeating it since), beat the game without killing any demolitionists or wizards (gently caress you), get from floor 16 to floor 20 without killing any monsters (gently caress YOU), and Hoplite Master, and I don't think I'm ever going to manage any of them. Pacifist is actually not too bad (I think I just focused on jumping across the whole map), otherwise I'm at pretty much the same place as you (no Streaker yet though). Partisan seems maybe doable, but Speedrun is just nuts
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Oct 6, 2014 22:38
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IVAN isn't updating, but CLIVAN is. Kind of the Stone Soup of IVAN, although... not as interested in fairness or balance, as these are antithetical to the nature of IVAN.
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Oct 6, 2014 22:47
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:I need to see if I can win it again in a version that has patched out the exploit where you turn chests into earwax, then eat the earwax to obtain deity-level intelligence and wisdom and transform all your gear and your limbs into Golden Eagle Feathers, which I'm pretty sure you can only even discover exist as a material by diving into the source code. 
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Oct 6, 2014 23:56
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John Lee posted:IVAN isn't updating, but CLIVAN is. Kind of the Stone Soup of IVAN, although... not as interested in fairness or balance, as these are antithetical to the nature of IVAN. I noticed IVAN 3D on the wiki. How well does that work?
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Oct 7, 2014 03:34
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Kobold Sex Tape posted:Not only are missiles still absurd (oneshotting ancient chaos wyrm rules), but the ammo artifacts are possibly the two best items in the game now! They're absolutely bonkers powerful, which I guess makes up for being completely worthless for like 13 years. My mindcrafter who had basically no training with bows destroyed D50 with the True Aim granted to him on D49. It was great. True aim is pretty much the reason my monk character survived so long. The huge damage meant I survived a lot of fights that should have taken me out. It wasn't too long before my bows skill was starting to eclipse my unarmed combat. Then I got Vanquisher and basically figured, gently caress fists. 1d50 damage is nice, but it doesn't beat the combination of slaying everything combined with the monk's DR bonus to replace the penalty for not using a shield.
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Oct 7, 2014 10:45
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Just wanted to chime in and say that I love Sproggiwood.
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Oct 7, 2014 13:11
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Just wanted to chime in and say that I love Sproggiwood.  I made the settings screen a little less of an abomination last night. Wish I had time to do full key remapping, but looks like that'll have to be post 1.0. 
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Oct 7, 2014 14:24
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Unormal posted:
The one bit of criticism I have about Sproggiwood is that I'd like the bonus rewards on dungeons to be for doing it once really well rather than doing it multiple times on different classes. I think you mentioned something along those lines earlier but thought I'd chime in to say I'd be more a fan of that way of doing things.
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Oct 7, 2014 17:57
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oriongates posted:True aim is pretty much the reason my monk character survived so long. The huge damage meant I survived a lot of fights that should have taken me out. It wasn't too long before my bows skill was starting to eclipse my unarmed combat. Then I got Vanquisher and basically figured, gently caress fists. 1d50 damage is nice, but it doesn't beat the combination of slaying everything combined with the monk's DR bonus to replace the penalty for not using a shield. How did they change the missile artifacts to make them useful? I remember before the biggest problem was always that miss or hit, you had to run and actually pick them back up. I've not really played since 1.1 (?) came out. One thing I always liked about ADOM was that due to the way the overworld map was set up, you had different ways to start depending on how safe/risky you wanted to be. Most roguelikes I've played it's pretty much descend or die. Also, does anyone remember an old roguelike named "Ragnarok"? I believe it only had a tile system, and took a bunch of stuff from Norse myths. Was the first I played before I knew what they really were. I'd love an updated version just because there was all sorts of cool stuff in there.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:53
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Unormal posted:
Was there a list of hot keys somewhere? I wanted to level up via keyboard but couldn't figure out how.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:03
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Oh my yes, here is a download link for the game. I was terrible at it, barely got anywhere aside from the Forest.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:08
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FuzzySlippers posted:Was there a list of hot keys somewhere? I wanted to level up via keyboard but couldn't figure out how. No, I'm going to at least add a little key indicator to every button. Level up is + (keypad or other one)
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Oct 7, 2014 20:27
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