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Aphrodite posted:Simple who search for mythological and legendary fascists. Oh, that sounds like most superhero comics. That's like the basic description of like Darkseid and other supervillains.
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Oct 17, 2014 17:18
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Potsticker posted:Oh, that sounds like most superhero comics. That's like the basic description of like Darkseid and other supervillains.
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Oct 17, 2014 17:40
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prefect posted:If somebody were to describe Alan Moore's work (Watchmen in particular) as "cryptofascist propaganda", what would be the best way to gently dissuade them?
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Oct 17, 2014 17:50
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CapnAndy posted:Darkseid isn't a cryptofacist. He's the ur-facist. He is facism given form. Yeah he rules with his face.
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Oct 17, 2014 19:36
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redbackground posted:Wait, who's calling Superman's dog a Nazi?! Have you ever seen a police cat? 
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Oct 17, 2014 19:37
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Potsticker posted:What even is a cryptofascist? William F Buckley.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:08
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Skwirl posted:William F Buckley. Tim Buckley?
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Oct 17, 2014 20:11
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Potsticker posted:Tim Buckley? The word cryptofacist was invented by writer/political commentator Gore Vidal to describe writer/political commentator William F Buckley. Buckley founded noted conservative magazine The National Review. His son, novelist Christopher Buckley, was forced to resign from that magazine after endorsing Obama in 2008. Read something that doesn't have pictures for once.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:20
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If it's not interesting enough to have pictures then it's not interesting enough to read. 
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Oct 17, 2014 20:25
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Phylodox posted:If it's not interesting enough to have pictures then it's not interesting enough to read. Books without pictures use the greatest artist ever: Your imagination.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:29
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Skwirl posted:Books without pictures use the greatest artist ever: Your imagination. Sorry, my imagination is crap.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:32
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Skwirl posted:Books without pictures use the greatest artist ever: Your imagination. Counterpoint: Jack Kirby.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:42
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Skwirl posted:The word cryptofacist was invented by writer/political commentator Gore Vidal to describe writer/political commentator William F Buckley. Buckley founded noted conservative magazine The National Review. His son, novelist Christopher Buckley, was forced to resign from that magazine after endorsing Obama in 2008. Read something that doesn't have pictures for once. I would read it if Darkseid was the one who created noted conservative magazine The National Review and writer/political commentator Clark Kent wrote the word "cryptofascist.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:48
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Madkal posted:I would read it if Darkseid was the one who created noted conservative magazine The National Review and writer/political commentator Clark Kent wrote the word "cryptofascist. Who's gonna illustrate it?
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Oct 17, 2014 21:15
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Madkal posted:I would read it if Darkseid was the one who created noted conservative magazine The National Review and writer/political commentator Clark Kent wrote the word "cryptofascist. You realize this would also be a book where Darkseid says to Clark Kent "Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I'll sock you in your goddamn face, and you'll stay plastered."
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Oct 17, 2014 21:26
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Skwirl posted:You realize this would also be a book where Darkseid says to Clark Kent "Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I'll sock you in your goddamn face, and you'll stay plastered." As long as he says it while sitting on Clark's couch I can see it.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:49
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prefect posted:If somebody were to describe Alan Moore's work (Watchmen in particular) as "cryptofascist propaganda", what would be the best way to gently dissuade them? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WUcKgOav0c
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Oct 17, 2014 22:54
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prefect posted:If somebody were to describe Alan Moore's work (Watchmen in particular) as "cryptofascist propaganda", what would be the best way to gently dissuade them? Just nod and agree about Moore and then show them the cool work from this amazing guy The Original Writer! Also: Madkal posted:As long Michael Ironside is voicing it I can see it. ftfy
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Oct 17, 2014 23:50
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Potsticker posted:What even is a cryptofascist? Someone who likes or is fascist but doesn't want to admit it. The same for other "crypto-X" things. Darkseid isn't because he's open about who he is and isn't fascist except under a pointlessly broad definition.
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Oct 18, 2014 02:48
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Someone who likes or is fascist but doesn't want to admit it. The same for other "crypto-X" things. What about Magneto? Or Dr. Doom? Or Lex Luthor?
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Oct 18, 2014 05:32
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Magneto has shown no preference regarding economics and is indeed pretty vague on what kind of government his ideal non-mutant-free world would have, Doom is more of a Stalinist with utopian delusions and a dash of Saparmurat Niyazov, and Lex... I suppose Lex could possibly be considered to be crypto-fascist, depending on which version we're talking about.
I Killed GBS fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 06:16
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Thinking about it now I might have overstated; Darkseid as he was originally conceived borrowed from fascism, but he's been taken in a bunch of different directions and I think the modern version has lost most of the specific politics. As a heroic example, you can argue that Superman was born from the idea of socialist Jews fleeing Nazi Germany, but the character is only very loosely tied to that nowadays. E: The Empire in Star Wars is a pretty good example of fascism in fiction. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 06:21
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Someone who likes or is fascist but doesn't want to admit it. The same for other "crypto-X" things. Is the "they don't want to admit it" thing important? I figured it was just hiding a fascist message or theme.
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Oct 18, 2014 06:27
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Potsticker posted:Is the "they don't want to admit it" thing important? I figured it was just hiding a fascist message or theme. Sometimes? Crypto-religions are where you're hiding the fact you believe in something because you fear persecution.
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Oct 18, 2014 06:48
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It also has been used to mean when someone supports fascism but doesn't realize they support fascism in the standard "_____ are bad guys I'm not a bad guy so my ideology can't be ______ " delusion.
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Oct 18, 2014 07:16
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Bigfoot Hitler is my favorite cryptofacist.
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Oct 18, 2014 13:21
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Chinaman7000 posted:Bigfoot Hitler is my favorite cryptofacist. I personally like the Loch Ness Mussolini.
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Oct 18, 2014 16:13
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Madkal posted:I personally like the Loch Ness Mussolini. I'm all about the Franco Chupacabra, myself.
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Oct 18, 2014 18:35
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Chinaman7000 posted:Bigfoot Hitler is my favorite cryptofacist. He's no Starfish Hitler. 
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Oct 19, 2014 09:59
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The TV thread made me realize how little I know about Flash. What difference, if any, is there between Zoom and Reverse Flash?
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Oct 19, 2014 19:29
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Skwirl posted:The TV thread made me realize how little I know about Flash. What difference, if any, is there between Zoom and Reverse Flash? There are two separate characters, but both wore similar yellow costumes. The first one was mostly called Reverse-Flash, but also went by Professor Zoom. He was one of Barry Allen's Silver Age Rogues, who was probably around since the '60s. His real name was Eobard Thawne, and I believe he was from the future. At one point, Barry Allen killed him by snapping his neck in order to protect Iris, and he stood trial for it. That was in the early-to-mid '80s, and soon after the trial, Barry died saving the multiverse during the Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline, where the skies turned red. In the mid-2000s, Geoff Johns brought Barry and Reverse-Flash back from the dead and established the continuity where Barry's mother had been killed and his father was framed for the murder. There is a separate character called Zoom, who Geoff Johns created in his excellent run on the Wally West Flash comic in the early 2000s. He was a criminal profiler named Hunter Zolomon whose legs were destroyed by a rampaging Grodd, and he blamed Wally. At some point, this Zoom decided to make Wally a better hero by challenging him and causing him to suffer, and launched several attacks against Wally's loved ones. I'm not sure what happened to him. Hopefully a bigger Flash fan can come along and fill in some of these blanks with actual Flash Facts. Big Bad Voodoo Lou fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 19:47
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Skwirl posted:The TV thread made me realize how little I know about Flash. What difference, if any, is there between Zoom and Reverse Flash? The Reverse Flash is also known as Professor Zoom. The first Reverse Flash was a future dude called Eobard Thawne. He was a guy who lived in the future where all the history of the Flash was common knowledge and became obsessed with the Flash and hated him. He gets FUTURE plastic surgery done to look like Barry Allen and duplicates the accident that gave Flash his powers to gain his own super speed. He travels back in time to fight the Flash in his time. Like all silver age DC Villains, he losses, repeatedly. Eventually there is some weird storyline in the 70's where Thawne kills Iris Allen with a super speed vibrating punch. (I think part of the plot was that she was dressed up as Barbara Gordon Batgirl at the time for a costume party and he mistook her for Batgirl.) Later on in the 80's, The Reverse Flash shows up and prepares to kill Flashes current fiancée with the same trick. Flash and Thawne race to the church and Barry snaps Thawne's neck, killing him. This would lead to over a year long story line called the Trial of Barry Allen, where the Flash is charged with murder 2. It's a really long, convoluted story line that shows some correct insight into the legal profession (going with Murder 2 which the Flash arguably did commit as opposed to the common media friendly charge of Murder 1.) and some massive misteps. (A ghost from the future comes back in time and hypnotizes the jury into acquitting the Flash.) And in the end it's revealed that Iris Allen also became a ghost who was sent into the future after she died, so Barry goes into the future and lives happily ever after with her....Until the Crisis happens and he dies. The Second Reverse Flash, known as Zoom has a much simpler backstory. He's Hunter Zolmon a forensic profiler who was hired by the Central City PD to help them arrest the Rogues. Zolmon himself is a good cop who made a mistake on a raid of a super villain hideout which got people killed and himself wounded. Zolomon helps out Wally West Flash until he runs afoul of Gorilla Grodd who cripples him, because Grodd is a jerk. Zolomon becomes obsessed with fixing his past mistakes and tries to use the Cosmic Treadmill to go back in time. It blows up in his face, giving Zolomon time manipulation powers. (Which appear from the outside to be Super Speed.) Now known as Zoom, Hunter has a twisted vision of the world, and sees that it's only through tragedy that people become stronger. So he decides to make the Flash a better hero by breaking him down. He basically appears in Geoff John's run on Flash and you should track it down and read it. Thawne came back and became the Reverse Flash again when Geoff Johns made him another one of his Johnsian literal characters. He also gave Thawne the ability to travel back in time and change history, but he was powerless to use this abillity on Barry Allen as doing so would cause Thawne to kill himself. Then there is the current Reverse Flash in the nu52 who is like Iris Allen's brother. But that is silly and we will ignore that.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:49
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And as you can now see, the show has a guy with the name but none of the other characteristics of one of them and another guy without the name but quite a few of the characteristics of the other.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:13
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Also, having a villain who looks like you and is also hella fast is kind of a Flash tradition; Jay Garrick (the original, golden age Flash ) has a guy called "The Rival" and Impulse (Barry Allen's grandson from the future) has "Inertia", another member of the Thawne family.
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Oct 19, 2014 22:00
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Is there a reason we're spoiler tagging character names that have been around for decades?
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Oct 19, 2014 22:29
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Endless Mike posted:Is there a reason we're spoiler tagging character names that have been around for decades? I think it's because there is a character named Eddy Thawne in the Flash TV show. And we nerds are supposed to suspect he's the Reverse Flash. Just like we are supposed to suspect Harrison Wells is Zoom. Or a time travelling HG Wells. Or something.
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Oct 19, 2014 23:01
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HG Wells would never murder anyone. He was friends with Superman!
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Oct 19, 2014 23:21
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Endless Mike posted:Is there a reason we're spoiler tagging character names that have been around for decades? Because the Skwirl, who asked about the Reverse Flash/Zoom, is watching The Flash and there is a character there that might be one of those villains in a future episode and I'm not gonna spoiler that in case he doesn't know.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:01
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Gaz-L posted:HG Wells would never murder anyone. He was friends with Superman! I just realized that Kristin Wells was probably named for this guy.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:27
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:There is a separate character called Zoom, who Geoff Johns created in his excellent run on the Wally West Flash comic in the early 2000s. He was a criminal profiler named Hunter Zolomon whose legs were destroyed by a rampaging Grodd, and he blamed Wally. At some point, this Zoom decided to make Wally a better hero by challenging him and causing him to suffer, and launched several attacks against Wally's loved ones. I'm not sure what happened to him. When Professor Zoom was brought back, he somehow depowered Zoom and turned him back into Hunter Zolomon in a wheelchair. And that was it. We didn't even get a line of dialogue out of Zolomon in response. It was just Johns taking him off the table because gently caress the awesome new character he created. Classics, man! Coincidentally, the existence of Zoom perfectly measures when my interest in DC began and ended.
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Oct 20, 2014 06:00
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