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Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009

Poison Mushroom posted:

I'm actually quite interested to see goodness "gain knowledge from the no-lynch". I'm even more excited to see a case built on it! Who knows, maybe he'll actually find something.

Care to explain why it's a redflag why I want to lynch these two in particular?

You wanting to lynch those two isn't a redflag per se, but you wanting to lynch Lamp and then voting for goodness is.

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goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?

tithin posted:

I'm re-reading goodness at the minute and I'm getting kind of a scummy vibe - but at the same time I'm not sure I'm not just projecting (scum hunting will do that for you) - is goodness a newer player also? Is this how they typically post?

The first couple days and last couple days I am typically pretty cynical about the game, just because of the way some people think they are clairvoyant gods.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



goodness posted:

The first couple days and last couple days I am typically pretty cynical about the game, just because of the way some people think they are clairvoyant gods.

The problem here is that the first couple of days, and the last couple of days in this particular game are going to run together.

There's not going to be a comfortable middle imo - so you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot.

goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?

tithin posted:

The problem here is that the first couple of days, and the last couple of days in this particular game are going to run together.

There's not going to be a comfortable middle imo - so you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot.

I mean IRL but ok.

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009

goodness posted:

The first couple days and last couple days I am typically pretty cynical about the game, just because of the way some people think they are clairvoyant gods.

This is probably not the right attitude to go about it, but out of topic... I loved this sentence. I am seriously planning on setting up scenarios irl so that I'm able to say "clairvoyant god" :P

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Pinterest Mom posted:

It's not that they're not making an effort, it's that they're trying to appear to be making an effort without making one. "I'm trying to see if I can gain any knowledge from the no lynch" conjures up images of him retreating into his basement hideout, burning the midnight oil and making crazy diagrams on the wall trying to figure it all out, but you know and I know and goodness knows that there's no knowledge to gain from the no lynch. It's an attempt to look like they're doing something without actually doing anything, and it's super scummy when paired with posts like "Content on the first couple days is completely irrelevant until late game when it can be analyzed. Trying to pick something out of nothing just leads to false arguments that everyone bandwagons on." that actively try to stifle conversation.

I want to see what they come up with. Same with Maltose. There's no one except maybe tithin I wouldn't want to vote at all. I can see reasons for a lot of people though the ones I have on Kitiara aren't really founded on anything. Pinterest I feel ambivalent towards but not bad.

Mushroom you still haven't answered my question in regards to Maltose from D1. Also how do you feel about them on this D2?

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




A harder question to ask is why was sos killed?

He targeted goodness and maltose each. He also mentions mushroom in this post:

soscannonballs posted:

Yeah I am going to ##vote Mr. Maltose. I am feeling pretty good about 100 being town right now, although I admit my only meta experience is from 2 game over a year ago, but in those games their town game was a lot different than their scum game.

Sos was also a proponent of lynching Maltose and against the no-lynch. Useless to say in retrospect, but I think anyone would've been hard pressed to put him down as scum on D1 and I think it was that earnestness of his as town that led him to being lynched. Normally it's risky for scum to go after a player they think personally threatens them, since it can be easily connected. Does that mean we get to pay less attention to these guys?

I can't get much out of the night kill of last night, there's probably not much there, but I don't think we should forget that it happened.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

I think making reads from who was killed is a sucker's game.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Pinterest Mom posted:

I think making reads from who was killed is a sucker's game.
It's pretty much the definition of WIFOM.

100YrsofAttitude posted:

Mushroom you still haven't answered my question in regards to Maltose from D1. Also how do you feel about them on this D2?
I was feeling fairly strongly on him being town Day 1, because he was here and engaging and my gut said town. I've got errands and Survivor tonight, but I'll try to get a good re-read of him and the thread in.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Gonna do my best to be present for deadline, though it may get a bit tough. At this point I would vote goodness or Maltose, though it's more because I don't want to vote other people. I want to see what they have to say first. At worst, I'll announce I'm going to bed and lay down a vote.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



Poison Mushroom posted:

It's pretty much the definition of WIFOM.

Sorry, WIFOM?

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




tithin posted:

Sorry, WIFOM?

Whine in front of me. It's a term I had forgotten but that explains perfectly where I was more or less going. Just pointless hypotheticals that don't really lead anywhere.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

tithin posted:

Sorry, WIFOM?

Wine in front of me.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009
Come on guys, where's the participation? I'm still waiting to hear from goodness, you should be home by now.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Kitiara posted:

Come on guys, where's the participation? I'm still waiting to hear from goodness, you should be home by now.

Yeah let's get a dialogue going because I'm nodding off and we've still got a ways to go. I want to check out Lamp, I've never bothered and all I know about them off hand is that Mushroom considers them scum for meta reasons. You were a bit retaliating strongly against Mushroom earlier Kitiara but I feel that a case could be built against them. So I guess 2nd them I'm gonna try to look into.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

tithin posted:

due to the flip flop vote first on 100, and then later for no vote.

The vote could be fake, the reason given could be a joke, but at the same time it could also not

Oh god is it seriously ambiguous that my first d1 vote for 100 because "of his name" wasn't a joke? That's really unfortunate.

Just because I want to say my last piece on the matter: I wish people would stop saying I was disrupting Day 1 srs talk with my joke vote. It was literally like half a dozen posts from the last joke vote and there really wasn't any proper content from what I can read. Only "hey guys we should get serious now" Which I disagreed with because I always like to do at least one joke vote and wanted to get mine in before that.

There was no intention of mine to push the town away from serious talking. That would be a blatant and poor scum tactic and I like to think in an alternative universe where scum-Lamp is playing this game he wouldn't be so dumb to try do that.

Now.

The lack of energy in this game points to an inactive scum. I feel like nobody is really stirring the pot as such.

Poison Mushroom posted:

Do you think he's scum, then? Because you're getting awful defensive but not doing much but talking about how town you obviously are.

If he's so suspicious? Let's see a case on him.
oh that's in reference to Kitiara.
I just read but can't find another post like this against goodness which basically reads "if you are spending all your time being overly defensive and not prodding other players that is pretty scummy"

And I think that's just sloppy. Newbies, and some vets, have a tendency to spend all their posts just defending themselves from being scum. It's an easy trap to fall into to. But what really helps t find s is.. questions and offensive posts! Not emotional pleads that "I'm townie guys wait till I flip!!"

I'm hella guilty of it myself. And I definitely don't see it as a reason to label somebody scummy like Poison Mushroom etc might.

OK so.


Poison Mushroom posted:

I was feeling fairly strongly on him being town Day 1, because he was here and engaging and my gut said town.
Poor.

But also I really do think scum is being lurky lurks.

goodness posted:

The first couple days and last couple days I am typically pretty cynical about the game, just because of the way some people think they are clairvoyant gods.
This is a very terrible fake reason not to be participating dude. No offense.
And if you are town, your absence isn't helping much. With only a couple hours to deadline and two votes already on you - ##vote goodness

I am hesitant to defend my day1 no lynch now. I mean, I still think we didn't have enough content to lynch anything more than random (and I curse those who argued against this!) but I was hoping for some more pages d2. Nevermind.

Also Poison Mushroom props for actually trying and making good posts. You come across as strongly townish so please keep an open mind on me ya bish

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



At least it's not nearly so quiet as the Australia game where the mod's threatened to modkill / close the game because no one's loving talking.

Thanks for the explanation on WIFOM

100YrsofAttitude posted:

A harder question to ask is why was sos killed?

He targeted goodness and maltose each. He also mentions mushroom in this post:


Sos was also a proponent of lynching Maltose and against the no-lynch. Useless to say in retrospect, but I think anyone would've been hard pressed to put him down as scum on D1 and I think it was that earnestness of his as town that led him to being lynched. Normally it's risky for scum to go after a player they think personally threatens them, since it can be easily connected. Does that mean we get to pay less attention to these guys?

I can't get much out of the night kill of last night, there's probably not much there, but I don't think we should forget that it happened.

It's difficult to say the logic, but it would be a good way of diverting attention to Maltose, which honestly makes me a bit averse to voting for him on that ground.

That being said it's almost literally all we've got to go on.

Might try to do a formal read - how much time do we have left?

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

tithin posted:

At least it's not nearly so quiet as the Australia game where the mod's threatened to modkill / close the game because no one's loving talking.

Thanks for the explanation on WIFOM


It's difficult to say the logic, but it would be a good way of diverting attention to Maltose, which honestly makes me a bit averse to voting for him on that ground.

That being said it's almost literally all we've got to go on.

Might try to do a formal read - how much time do we have left?
We have two hours. With this lethargy I'd be surprised if we even get to vote out goodness.

From my reread just now I think sos was killed because he seemed like a strong aggressive good player. I don't think reading in anymore than that will do us any good.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



Lampsacus posted:

Oh god is it seriously ambiguous that my first d1 vote for 100 because "of his name" wasn't a joke? That's really unfortunate.

Yeah, it is a little ambiguous - to me at least. I was asked to read you and as I said, purely from where I was sitting, if I were to look at it in the scummiest light possible, it is a tell.

quote:

Just because I want to say my last piece on the matter: I wish people would stop saying I was disrupting Day 1 srs talk with my joke vote. It was literally like half a dozen posts from the last joke vote and there really wasn't any proper content from what I can read. Only "hey guys we should get serious now" Which I disagreed with because I always like to do at least one joke vote and wanted to get mine in before that.

There was no intention of mine to push the town away from serious talking. That would be a blatant and poor scum tactic and I like to think in an alternative universe where scum-Lamp is playing this game he wouldn't be so dumb to try do that.

Happy with this reason.

quote:

I just read but can't find another post like this against goodness which basically reads "if you are spending all your time being overly defensive and not prodding other players that is pretty scummy"

And I think that's just sloppy. Newbies, and some vets, have a tendency to spend all their posts just defending themselves from being scum. It's an easy trap to fall into to. But what really helps t find s is.. questions and offensive posts! Not emotional pleads that "I'm townie guys wait till I flip!!"

I'm hella guilty of it myself. And I definitely don't see it as a reason to label somebody scummy like Poison Mushroom etc might.

I agree with this (/bitter).

quote:

This is a very terrible fake reason not to be participating dude. No offense.
And if you are town, your absence isn't helping much. With only a couple hours to deadline and two votes already on you - ##vote goodness

I'm just going to make my vote for goodness now, my earlier ~big post~ combined with the subsequent explanation post don't tally as a good enough reason for me.

##vote goodness

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

tithin posted:

I'm just going to make my vote for goodness now, my earlier ~big post~ combined with the subsequent explanation post don't tally as a good enough reason for me.
##vote goodness
Good enough reason for what? Sorry I am dumb.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



re-reading that last quote block is confusing even to me

To clarify, I had thought I'd done a read and post on goodness but hadn't - I just did the read.

Unfortunately there's not a lot there to read, and I suspect it's mainly scum lurking. Combined with the subsequent cynicism explanation and promise to do a big effort post from him that didn't occur, I'm happy to vote goodness, as I'm pretty confident he's scum at this stage.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




We'll hammer tonight, as long as no one moves their vote, I'll finish it off when need be. There's a good enough case against goodness at this point where I don't really have qualms voting him. Though I didn't have a hand in making the case, I just never felt like he was trying too hard for most of the game but that at least he was sticking with a specific style of posting. I'd still like to see a rebuttal though if any is coming.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

100YrsofAttitude posted:

We'll hammer tonight, as long as no one moves their vote, I'll finish it off when need be. There's a good enough case against goodness at this point where I don't really have qualms voting him. Though I didn't have a hand in making the case, I just never felt like he was trying too hard for most of the game but that at least he was sticking with a specific style of posting. I'd still like to see a rebuttal though if any is coming.
yeah please post goodness. Even if you are going to be lynched tonight it'll be good to get your reads on everybody for future intel if you flip town.

goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?
I'm a tracker but at work, dont hammer me.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



If his rebuttal is sufficiently strong enough, I'll be happy to unvote, but promises to post content and then failing to follow through is a big scummy move a lot of the time, especially when it helps to avoid them getting lynched.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

It'd have to be pretty fricking strong to justify us no lynching d2.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

goodness posted:

I'm a tracker but at work, dont hammer me.

lol

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

There's no tracker in this game. Go ahead and hammer.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

and since I basically just outed myself anyway, I jailed Pmush night one.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



Pinterest Mom posted:

and since I basically just outed myself anyway, I jailed Pmush night one.

Why?

How do you know there's no tracker?

Am I missing something there?

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

die cis scum

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

tithin posted:

Why?

How do you know there's no tracker?

Am I missing something there?
There is no set up where pin is their role and there exists a tracker. So pin knows goodness is lying (or pin is lying but I doubt it)

pinterest just claimed jailer.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Open set-up

MildManeredManikin posted:



If there's a jailer, there's no tracker.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Pinterest Mom posted:

There's no tracker in this game. Go ahead and hammer.

There can absolutely be a tracker.

I find mushroom to be pretty inconsistent, despite active. He doesn't bandwagon Maltose, but quickly got on the goodness vote when all we had nothing more than pinterest's 1-phrase case. I don't know how he can call Maltose engaging. Maltose had arguably 3-4 posts of his total 7 that were somehow about Mafia but he never cased or made effort in the slightest of ways. Mushroom could've just called his non-vote gut but he added the extra really false qualifier.

I'm really uneasy about poisonous mushroom.

His case on Lamp was never particular strong, and lamp has shown himself to be pretty forthright so far.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



Haha. Ok, I got that Pmom claimed Jailer, but didn't realise those were mutually exclusive roles.

I also doubt very much pmom would claim jailer where a town flip on goodness will get himself killed.

Someone hammer this scum.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




DIdn't preview didn't see Pinterest's reveal.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



Pinterest Mom posted:

and since I basically just outed myself anyway, I jailed Pmush night one.

Question before the night ends: why the jail on Pmush?

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




I just want one last fail-safe. If it turns out Pin's doing a gambit or whatever, where does this put us towards LYLO?

We've got 8, we get town tonight and they kill one of us. Brings us to 6 where 2 v 4. We hit Pin for lying and they kill. We're down to 4 where it's 3 v. 1. If we mis-lynch then that's it.

It's not a fool-proof gambit but it's a pretty good one for scum seeing how little posting we've gotten.

That said I think it's worth the risk.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

100YrsofAttitude posted:

There can absolutely be a tracker.

I find mushroom to be pretty inconsistent, despite active. He doesn't bandwagon Maltose, but quickly got on the goodness vote when all we had nothing more than pinterest's 1-phrase case. I don't know how he can call Maltose engaging. Maltose had arguably 3-4 posts of his total 7 that were somehow about Mafia but he never cased or made effort in the slightest of ways. Mushroom could've just called his non-vote gut but he added the extra really false qualifier.

I'm really uneasy about poisonous mushroom.

His case on Lamp was never particular strong, and lamp has shown himself to be pretty forthright so far.
There can only be a tracker if pin is scum. If goodness flips town we'll probably lose one more town and then lynch pin tomorrow but I highly doubt pin would do that play.

I like mushs vote on goodness but it's not because of his lurking right? I think any case on goodness that isn't about his 'cynical lurking' is a poo poo reason for reasons I've already given but whatevs

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Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

tithin posted:

Question before the night ends: why the jail on Pmush?

why not?

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