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Ok, we're a day away from deadline and I don't want a repeat of last night so I'm going to preemptively ##vote Fathis I don't expect this to clear anyone's suspicions on me, I just don't want another no-lynch and he's the best candidate we have. It would still be nice to hear more from the lurker crowd tomorrow though.
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Oct 22, 2014 05:02
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I want to see someone voted so we at least have a fighting chance to rid our town of scum. So how do I change my vote? Unvote then re-vote?
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Oct 22, 2014 05:04
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## unvote
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Oct 22, 2014 05:08
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##vote Fathis Munk
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Oct 22, 2014 05:09
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Yeah, Pez, although I don't think you technically need to unvote first if you don't want to. ##vote Fathis - I'm cool with that and that is definitely the most likely lynch at this point as well.
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Oct 22, 2014 05:33
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I know my saying "Hey dudes I'm town" is highly suspicious but at the moment I really just don't have the energy/time to sift through posts with my Sherlock Holmes hat on  I kinda suck because I'm letting my first game go to waste here but what are you gonna do, IRL comes first.Since I can't quite invest the time I'd like to scum hunting at the moment all I can do is try and prevent you to lynch town (i.e. me). And except coming out saying that kind of stuff and hoping someone trusts me I don't quite know what to do. I don't have any actual big scum feeling about FLuck but it's just that everyone seems to trust his reasonings without questioning and while, yeah they are good, if he's scum he's playing all of us. Anyways, don't feel like you have to protect my feelings or anything, I won't be offended for getting lynched in a forums game 
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Oct 22, 2014 07:59
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Okay, so reading back over some other stuff to see what I can see and lo and behold:Fast Luck posted:HiipFire is already voting for himself, so I wouldn't mind trying to ride that to a lynch. Hiipfire's attitude also has not been a helpful one, quoting Kerro's long post and saying "jesus christ im not going to read that" or whatever. Anyone feeling a HiipFire vote? FLuck points out (implicitly in this case but hey) that Hiipfire is acting superscummy by not giving a poo poo about scumhunting at all and selfvoting, asks for opinions on that matter. Fair enough on that front... but doesn't actually act on it immediately. Not too unusual, I suppose, but posts afterwards were mostly just people not interested in that plan either. Fast Luck posted:The deadline is in 10 minutes. This is a no lynch. That's lovely play by us!! Everyone can't be going off in their own direction next time. Half an hour later, Fluck tries to guilt people into voting for Hiipfire anyway using the deadline and impending no lynch. His rationale for the vote itself is reasonable enough. Still just that he was explicitly not trying to scumhunt AND self-voted. BUT! Not even five minutes later, this happens: Fast Luck posted:I just saw Allen vote himself. Not sure what the meaning of that was, if he's just not feeling Mafia or what? But I guess I'll do that too. Again, decent enough rationale in theory. Allen's not really been trying and just self-voted right before the deadline. In a vacuum, that would partially be suspicious. Still, given context Fluck's sudden last minute change to Allen in an attempt to get someone, anyone, lynched. Combine that with almost the same logic as when he voted for Hiipfire but actively worse since Allen never actually saw an effortpost and went "tl;dr lol" or the like. Not to mention this case on Gabriel with the conclusion of "therefore we should vote for Fathis," which makes absolutely no sense at all. The case itself is functional and sound enough but the result... does not flow. Refresher for those that somehow don't remember: Gabriel's spent a rather lengthy time actively defending Fathis. This means that they're both probably scum. ...Except, that would be so terrible a play that I don't even know where to begin. Scum would certainly defend other scum, true, but probably wouldn't actively go out of their way to defend one scumbro that often in such a short period of time. It's such a terrible play that not only would he be implicitly bussing Fathis, he'd be explicitly bussing himself. The secondary suggestion of "Gabriel is scum and defending Fathis because he knows Fathis is town" also... doesn't really work if you think about it. Yes, scum would want to keep weak town players around longer. They make good distractions from the real town but Fathis alone wouldn't really do that. In that scenario, if it was because he knows they're town, he'd also know the alignments of everyone else. And yet, he didn't step in to defend Allen when people were jumping on him earlier - and Allen is much more anti-town in his posts but almost definitely not scum given his actions. No, instead he sort of joined in by making one snipey post towards him. Not to mention the incredibly obvious part of the easiest way to confirm Gabriel's alignment is to lynch Gabriel. Lynching Fathis doesn't really help there, when your logic is "Fathis flips town, therefore Gabriel is scum or Fathis flips scum, therefore Gabriel is scum." You have the same endresult regardless, so wouldn't you want to verify that sooner? (asterisk) My point is! Fast Luck has been really good at presenting himself in a nice, helpful pro-town way but if you look at it again, it comes off much, much more as a snake-oil salesman act. His logic and rationale is sound... in a vacuum, but we're not playing in a vacuum. Once you put it in context and look at his actions and those of others it just doesn't quite hold up as well. ##vote fluck Asterisk: Well, not if they're scumbros of course. Right now, I'm inclined to say that they're not but who knows.
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Oct 22, 2014 13:05
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Addendum:Dragonatrix posted:Again, decent enough rationale in theory. Allen's not really been trying and just self-voted right before the deadline. In a vacuum, that would partially be suspicious. Still, given context Fluck's sudden last minute change to Allen in an attempt to get someone, anyone, lynched. Combine that with almost the same logic as when he voted for Hiipfire but actively worse since Allen never actually saw an effortpost and went "tl;dr lol" or the like. Allen has been rather implicitly not interested in scumhunting, true, but note how that fact never once gets brought up here. Important part is the last minute flipflopping to try and force through any lynch on the shakiest ground, even though Hiipfire was just as likely to succeed at the time.
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Oct 22, 2014 13:09
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Dragonatrix posted:Not to mention the incredibly obvious part of the easiest way to confirm Gabriel's alignment is to lynch Gabriel. Lynching Fathis doesn't really help there, when your logic is "Fathis flips town, therefore Gabriel is scum or Fathis flips scum, therefore Gabriel is scum." You have the same endresult regardless, so wouldn't you want to verify that sooner? (asterisk)
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Oct 22, 2014 13:20
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Dragonatrix posted:yeah fathis's sudden silence is pretty suspect but not just because he vanished suddenly: This vote on Fathis does not ring true to me. The only point appears to be that Fathis did not post over the weekend. It isn't based on Fathis' content at all. Dragonatrix posted:Fast Luck has been really good at presenting himself in a nice, helpful pro-town way but if you look at it again, it comes off much, much more as a snake-oil salesman act. His logic and rationale is sound... in a vacuum, but we're not playing in a vacuum. Once you put it in context and look at his actions and those of others it just doesn't quite hold up as well. This portion of the Fast Luck case also does not ring true. It talks about how Fast Luck's logic and rationale is sound except that it does not appreciate context. However, nowhere in Dragonatrix's case does he actually talk about Fast Luck's content doesn't make sense when dealing with context. It's just a random accusation thrown out here to try to make the case sound better than it actually is. ##vote Dragonatrix
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Oct 22, 2014 14:43
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Fast Luck posted:Did you not see that I myself ended up saying that same thing when I went on to say I'd prefer to vote Gabriel a bit later? Followed by you voting Fathis anyhow. So Dragonatrix finally puts in a really solid effortpost... and it's indicting the consensus Most Townie Player  On the one hand, I have a hard time seriously suspecting Fast Luck because he's been so incredibly earnest. He's posting a lot and doing a lot of casing... but on the other hand, for all that posting there really hasn't been anything very conclusive to come out of it. He's been spreading the suspicion around a lot but has been awfully non-committal: see above, his random vote for Hiipfire that immediately switches to Allen (who he then reverses himself on and declares is probably town.) He's been leaning on the "gosh everybody is so suspicious scum could be anyone" card a little: Fast Luck posted:Jeez I wanna look back at that deadline and see who seemed scummy but it really feels like almost everyone. Which would be pretty scummy if it weren't for the unfortunate fact that it's largely true, because there was jack poo poo happening. His ultimate D1 contribution was to try to drum up an arbitrary Hiipfire lynch on the spur of the moment after we'd spent the previous 24 hours talking about Allen and Fathis. His rationale was that "he self-voted so at least this will get us to 2" but there was already a vote on Fathis as well! I don't think we can really condemn Fast Luck based on what we have--if anything, Dragon is starting to look a little shadier again. But it's a possibility I've been toying with and I definitely think Fast Luck bears some examination in the days ahead. I'm particularly interested in this list from D1: Fast Luck posted:It's day one and there's three scum in this game and I'm currently thinking the scum comes from this group: Why some lurkers and not others? Why not Anias (who, bizarrely, FL asked for a read on when Anias had 0 posts in thread)? Why single out HiipFire and Toaster for lurky jokeposting but not Pez who had a similar amount of posts and content (i.e. very little)?
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Oct 22, 2014 15:06
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I voted Fathis anyhow because no one was biting on my case on you, Gabriel. I want to actually achieve a lynch today - deadline is 11pm EST btw!! - and my vote on Fathis was the fifth one, so that was promising. There's also another reason I was willing to vote Fathis but I want to see how things play out before I go into that. Unfortunately, Dragonatrix then promptly unvoted from Fathis putting us back to only four, which isn't helpful, and then implicated me as scum, which I don't think makes sense and which is a distraction. Keep in mind that my posts happen in real time. I see a thing and react to it, so you mostly see my thoughts evolve as it happens. For example, re: voting for HiipFire, obviously I was trying to get a lynch by the deadline. First I pitched HiipFire, but there was no interest, and only a couple posts from people saying they were not considering changing their votes. And the landscape was still random votes spread out over half the players. As best I can reconstruct it, the other votes were two leftover votes on Kerro from early (seemed like bad votes), one vote on Dragonatrix, one vote on Fathis, HiipFire's self-vote, and only my own vote on Allen. I didn't want to vote Kerro, and I decided I'd rather vote HiipFire than the other people with one vote, since Hiip was self-voting. There's a similar reason my posting about Gabriel/Fathis played out the way it did. First, find the connection and suggest the player under more current suspicion (Fathis). Then start asking Fathis, well, if you're town, what does that make you think of Gabriel? So then I begin thinking along those lines and post about my suspicions of Gabe. Ultimately I vote for Fathis because the Gabriel pitch got no traction and I do think there are some reasons to vote Fathis. With that all explained, I don't see how Dragonatrix's case really makes sense.
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Oct 22, 2014 15:38
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Gabriel Pope posted:Why some lurkers and not others? Why not Anias (who, bizarrely, FL asked for a read on when Anias had 0 posts in thread)?  I didn't include Anias on the list because someone literally not posting didn't ping my scumdar. I guess Pez didn't "feel" scummy at the time either, but really that was just a lovely D1 list that was not worth posting if im being honest.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:05
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Wait, when is the deadline in hours (tz shenanigans and all that.) tbh I did not understand on d1 that for the town to lynch you needed absolute majority  I thought town just killed whichever dude had most town votes.  I was going to say that if it looked like no lynch happening I'd vote myself to take one for the team but it actually won't help town so I guess I won't. If I get lynched do I get a last post to tell ya'll that I told you so?
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Oct 22, 2014 16:08
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The OP has a good votefinder thing at the top, it takes a sec to load but it always says how many hours until lynch so your timezone won't confuse you dead people are usually allowed to do a quick goodbye post to say "Go town!" or whatever because if town wins, they win too, even if they are dead. But you could say told you so also if you wanted.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:17
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Dragonatrix posted:##vote fluck This got me to re-read Fast Luck's posts and I think he's really stretching for a lot of things. I don't want to vote right now but my future vote will be FL unless me rereading the thread over lunch makes me spot something. Fathis Munk posted:Wait, when is the deadline in hours (tz shenanigans and all that.) tbh I did not understand on d1 that for the town to lynch you needed absolute majority 11 hours and 42 minutes from this post.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:17
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does "stretching to make reads in a game where half the players aren't even posting" really seem like a scum move to you? smdh
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Oct 22, 2014 16:21
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There's a limit to how far you can feasibly go, yes
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Oct 22, 2014 16:28
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Epsilon Plus posted:This got me to re-read Fast Luck's posts and I think he's really stretching for a lot of things. I don't want to vote right now but my future vote will be FL unless me rereading the thread over lunch makes me spot something. What are your thoughts on Fathis Munk? I find it a little curious that it seems the lurkers coming back today are all avoiding the easy Fathis vote.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:30
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Not trying to get Fathis bandwagoned btw, I'm just interested that it's not happening by itself.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:33
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I've been saying Fathis since day one. I haven't been posting much because I don't know what else to say. Blacknyte and Pope are on my suspicions list too, mostly for their flip floppy vote histories
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Oct 22, 2014 16:49
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Also Pope seems really intent to steer folks away from Fathis
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Oct 22, 2014 16:51
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Pez posted:Also Pope seems really intent to steer folks away from Fathis If voting for someone and asking people who aren't voting for them why they aren't voting for them counts as steering folks away I don't know what to think.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:53
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Pez posted:Also Pope seems really intent to steer folks away from Fathis Really more the opposite; he's trying to steer people towards Fathis. Which shouldn't be needed if he really was the "easy vote."
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Oct 22, 2014 17:16
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Well, he's already at 4 votes against, and people have posted about having suspected him. You yourself had a vote on him until not long ago and at that point he was at 5. This town seems to be really bad at coming together on anything. I truly think I responded to your case against me, but some guy with three posts over the first five real life days showing up and saying he's going to vote me for trying too hard frustrates me and again gets me wondering if we're going to accomplish anything.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:20
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Yes. I am going to vote you for trying too hard. This is my Plan. Except I haven't yet because I have not given the thread the full attention it deserves and would not want to vote you without confirming my suspicions sooo
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Oct 22, 2014 18:57
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I think I like Fast Luck's idea about Fathis Munk/Gabriel Pope (it'll be funny if it does turn out that the Pope and Munk are scum). Gabriel seemed very intent on keeping Fathis around and now seems to be completely going the other way when it looks like Fathis isn't going to make it. I will feel a bit bad if Fathis flips town and we lynch him based on Gabriel having a weird internet forums crush on him or something. Barring anything big coming up before the deadline I'm going to ##vote Fathis Munk and hope he flips scum, which would make Gabriel the easy lynch tomorrow.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:48
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Dragonatrix posted:Really more the opposite; he's trying to steer people towards Fathis. Which shouldn't be needed if he really was the "easy vote." Here's my thinking: Deadline is in barely 8 hours. We already no-lynched once, so it's really important that we don't gently caress up again, and we're essentially at a handicap since we need just as many votes as we did yesterday but we have 1 less voting player due to Anias getting nightkilled. Meanwhile Fathis's posting is pretty supsicious, there's a decent support base for lynching Fathis and even the fence-sitters would probably be ok with his lynch given that we can't afford to no-lynch. Considering all that, Fathis is a very "safe" vote. Nobody would blame anyone for coming in and voting Fathis under these circumstances. It's the perfect cover for the scum team to come in and drop the hammer. Why aren't they? If Fathis were scum, then we know there's a couple players out there who would be reluctant to vote him. If he's town, he's a great lynch candidate for scum--but they can't add their votes and voices if they're already committed to the case against him. So yes, I really want to lynch Fathis and see how he flips. If he's scum, that gives us good townie reads on the people who have been solidly pushing him since day 1 (nothing says that scum can't push other scum, but I doubt it would be their primary activity) and scum reads on the people that have avoided or excused him. If he's town, then that gets us scummy reads on the people that have been pushing him. Unfortunately I could potentially fall into either camp depending on how you read, so regardless of how Fathis flips I'm potentially incriminating myself. But so be it, I don't really see a lot of alternatives at this point and we desperately need somewhere to start since D1 flopped so badly due to no-lynching and general lack of participation.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:50
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AtrociousToaster posted:I think I like Fast Luck's idea about Fathis Munk/Gabriel Pope (it'll be funny if it does turn out that the Pope and Munk are scum). Gabriel seemed very intent on keeping Fathis around and now seems to be completely going the other way when it looks like Fathis isn't going to make it. I will feel a bit bad if Fathis flips town and we lynch him based on Gabriel having a weird internet forums crush on him or something. Yeah, just listen to me talking about Fathis earlier: AtrociousToaster posted:I'm not sure how I feel about you just yet. I've seen your posts elsewhere and your posting here seems to be pretty much the same humorous shitposting as you said earlier. You write good haikus though, so we should keep you around. Oh wait no that was your post and not mine whoops! It's sometimes hard to tell the difference considering you are espousing the exact same sentiments about Fathis that I am and yet somehow that sets me up to take a chain lynch if Fathis flip scums? How very convenient for you.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:56
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I see a lot of typing with no voting
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Oct 22, 2014 20:54
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AtrociousToaster posted:I will feel a bit bad if Fathis flips town and we lynch him based on Gabriel having a weird internet forums crush on him or something. Boy you're in for a ride, prepare to be disappointed. Gabriel Pope posted:Yeah, just listen to me talking about Fathis earlier: At least everyone loves me, this thread is gonne be hella boring without me 
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Oct 22, 2014 21:01
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Gabriel Pope posted:Here's my thinking: Deadline is in barely 8 hours. We already no-lynched once, so it's really important that we don't gently caress up again, and we're essentially at a handicap since we need just as many votes as we did yesterday but we have 1 less voting player due to Anias getting nightkilled. Meanwhile Fathis's posting is pretty supsicious, there's a decent support base for lynching Fathis and even the fence-sitters would probably be ok with his lynch given that we can't afford to no-lynch. This is a really good point, and is probably the first thing that has made me really hesitate about my vote on Fathis. I don't think we have time to find a second viable candidate though (which is a lovely reason to lynch someone) but I do still feel that there's a pretty solid case to be made on Fathis, and if I'm wrong then I stand by my mistake. It does occur to me though that given the lack of a viable alternative lynch and the high probability of there being scum among the lurkers it's also possible that if Fathis were town, that scum don't feel the need to hammer since they could just sit back and watch us either mislynch or no-lynch if we can't reach consensus. It really bugs me that a number of the lurkers are getting a pretty free ride at the moment (I mean gently caress, we still have a few people haven't even placed a vote on anyone), while others like Fast Luck are getting focused I think in part simply due to being more active. I think Dragonatrix' post on FL was well considered, but I'm not sure it necessarily points to scummy behaviour so much as just uncertain behaviour.
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Oct 22, 2014 21:26
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Gabriel Pope posted:Yeah, just listen to me talking about Fathis earlier: I made one comment saying I wasn't sure what to think of him, and then joked that we should keep him around because he's funny. Fast Luck pointed out like 5 different occasions where you seemed to be trying to push suspicion away from him. That's not quite the same. Fathis Munk posted:At least everyone loves me, this thread is gonne be hella boring without me We'll miss you either way. And I'll be rooting for you in survivor. 
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Oct 22, 2014 22:33
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Fathis Munk posted:At least everyone loves me, this thread is gonne be hella boring without me I think Gabriel has made some good points recently. Somewhat related to what he's said, I think if Fathis is scum it will be very hard to lynch him, assuming the scum players are holding off voting for him. That's why I'd like people not voting him to provide good reasons why they'd prefer risking a no lynch. I wonder if people like blacknyte etc have considered this. On the other hand, if the scum are already voting Fathis, and we still can't lynch him, then we're hopeless, haha.
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Oct 23, 2014 00:00
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Let's see... Epsilon, Fathis and Shark are the three still with no votes whatsoever. Assuming either myself or Blacknyte switch to Fathis, that still leaves the other, one of those 3... or Allen or Hiipfire. Those two have effectively straight up vanished so that's out. Really, getting a lynch requires both myself and Blacknyte to switch and I'd be willing to do so if only because at least then we'll probably get some information out of it; Fathis sure isn't my first pick for a lynch but he's not exactly wholly clear in my mind either. And, given his current history, I wouldn't expect Black to suddenly switch since he seems rather hellbent on focussing on me for whatever reason so that leaves the other three. Epsilon's claim before about being inclined to vote for you over everyone else means I'm not expecting him to spontaneously change his mind now, and Shark's not really been around much so I'm not sure how reliable that option is. And, of course, I don't expect Fathis to self-hammer but that might just be the only way. And since I'm off to bed in like a minute or two I almost definitely won't get to post again until D3 so I'll at least put my money where my mouth is and do so. ##vote Fathis ...man that sure is a whole lot of words to say very little but "i dont think it'll happen but doesnt hurt to try"
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Oct 23, 2014 00:09
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Dragonatrix posted:Let's see... Epsilon, Fathis and Shark are the three still with no votes whatsoever. clarification: aren't voting for anyone
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Oct 23, 2014 00:09
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I'm kinda on the fence about Fathis being scum(mostly because there isn't much to go work off of since most of his/her votes are joke posts from D1), but I'd rather get a lynch than having another no-lynch Why can't we just lynch one of the lurkers, I wouldn't be suprised if one of them is scum who's too lazy to post and just discusses nightkills and nothing else.
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Oct 23, 2014 00:11
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Fast Luck posted:You're posting this but you're not dead yet. Not sure how I feel about that, but I'm glad we're back to five votes against you, because I think we really need to lynch someone today, no offense. Emphasis on yet. I am the strongest candidate and town really seems to want to hang me high and dry.
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Oct 23, 2014 00:13
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Well I guess with Dragonatrix voting Fathis, it'll be hard to quickly switch to lynch someone else. ##vote Fathis sorry fathis we gotta eventually get a lynch, even if it's lynching town.
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Oct 23, 2014 00:13
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 00:36 |
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Dragonatrix posted:Let's see... Epsilon, Fathis and Shark are the three still with no votes whatsoever. Look at the votes, what am i going to vote ? Only meaningfull vote would be myself but I'm town and thus lynching myself would be actively hurtful
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Oct 23, 2014 00:14
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