Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

Embrace it and thank him for opening your eyes to a superior typing system

I'm into some pretty obscure keyboard layouts. You probably haven't heard of them.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.
Speaking of typing systems, can someone explain to me why vi's input and hotkeys make no loving sense? Is it some sort of leftover poo poo from the glory days of ARPANET that *nix neckbeards refuse to let go of so they seem legit? Or is there an actual good reason why it's remained completely goddamned different from every modern text editor that's come about over the past 20 years?

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

psydude posted:

Speaking of typing systems, can someone explain to me why vi's input and hotkeys make no loving sense? Is it some sort of leftover poo poo from the glory days of ARPANET that *nix neckbeards refuse to let go of so they seem legit? Or is there an actual good reason why it's remained completely goddamned different from every modern text editor that's come about over the past 20 years?

It's really efficient once you get comfortable with it. And tons of grizzled old Unix dudes learned it 30 years ago and don't want it changing for no good reason. Vim is a little more user friendly, and is usually what the vi command is aliased to anyway.

If you want a more intuitive editor there are other options.

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice

along the way posted:

This is the kind of poo poo that bothers me regarding age in this industry. I recently got :airquote:promoted:airquote: to Sys Admin (read: more responsibilities for the same amount of pay) over the guy who brought me in. I'm 32 and he's in his 50's. Our boss told me flat out that it's because I'm the one going for the certifications, researching and implementing new tech to add value to the company, and I simply understand systems better than my coworker. My coworker is extremely upset about this and keeps piling on additional menial poo poo for me to do, because we're still in an resource-limited situation where he's allowed to do so. Why is he upset about me being "promoted?" Because he's older and has been here longer than me.

I got offered a supervisor position the other day, over a team of 16 people all older than I, because my boss quit, and our director and CIO moved to different roles and the place is nearly completely dysfunctional.
Nope.

In other news, spent most of the day training one of our desktop engineers on SCCM and APP-V whilst bailing him out of a project. We're joking about renaming the desktop engineer positions to Citrix Delegation Analysts. :sigh:
Officially I'm an AIX guy, and by nature I have to hate Microsoft. But even for someone like me, I love the poo poo out of SCCM, and wish more people would use it because we pay for it and it's expensive and awesome.

I'm trying to also push them into looking at tools like Advanced Installer, that can package exes into MSIs and such by listening to the install. Are there any other good things that can do that? They have a 10 year old version of Install Watch.

SSH IT ZOMBIE fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 24, 2014

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

psydude posted:

Speaking of typing systems, can someone explain to me why vi's input and hotkeys make no loving sense? Is it some sort of leftover poo poo from the glory days of ARPANET that *nix neckbeards refuse to let go of so they seem legit? Or is there an actual good reason why it's remained completely goddamned different from every modern text editor that's come about over the past 20 years?

Here's why, the guy who programmed it used this as a terminal:


Notice that keyboard it has available. Every weird thing done for the hotkeys and stuff is done to match that one terminal and its keyboard.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

psydude posted:

Speaking of typing systems, can someone explain to me why vi's input and hotkeys make no loving sense? Is it some sort of leftover poo poo from the glory days of ARPANET that *nix neckbeards refuse to let go of so they seem legit? Or is there an actual good reason why it's remained completely goddamned different from every modern text editor that's come about over the past 20 years?

Pure function. As I understand it, it was designed so that you can do as much as possible while moving your hands away from their natural touch typing positions as little as possible. One of my old college professors taught C using Vi, and it was pretty amazing how quickly and completely he could manipulate text.

As far as why it's still around, why change it? There are a million and one text editors out there with intuitive interfaces. There's no chance that Vi would compete with any of them if it changed, so it's better to just keep holding onto its niche: unixbeards.

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice

Nintendo Kid posted:

Here's why, the guy who programmed it used this as a terminal:


Notice that keyboard it has available. Every weird thing done for the hotkeys and stuff is done to match that one terminal and its keyboard.

I can't decide if that looks like it's out of some 70s sci-fi movie, or, actually not a bad design. Leaning towards, "that's kinda neat", almost like the Bondi Blue macs.

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

psydude posted:

Speaking of typing systems, can someone explain to me why vi's input and hotkeys make no loving sense? Is it some sort of leftover poo poo from the glory days of ARPANET that *nix neckbeards refuse to let go of so they seem legit? Or is there an actual good reason why it's remained completely goddamned different from every modern text editor that's come about over the past 20 years?

vi chat? this is about to hit archives:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3552945

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.
As someone who isn't a *nix admin, but rather a person who just so happens to use *nix, these are all acceptable and understandable answers. With that being said, I'm trying to convince my boss to grow a neckbeard because he says "I just prefer using the CLI" at least twice a day, even when using the UI is actually faster and easier.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

People who play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup will be thrilled to know that you're already 5% of the way to being able to use Vim!

psydude posted:

"I just prefer using the CLI" at least twice a day, even when using the UI is actually faster and easier.

I see this quite a bit from developers who use Git as their source control. I think what they really mean is, "Every GUI ever made for Git is such hot garbage that it's just faster and easier to learn all the console commands." But they don't want to say that, because otherwise Git is pretty great.

Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Oct 24, 2014

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Che Delilas posted:

Pure function. As I understand it, it was designed so that you can do as much as possible while moving your hands away from their natural touch typing positions as little as possible. One of my old college professors taught C using Vi, and it was pretty amazing how quickly and completely he could manipulate text.

Well it stopped being natural touch typing positions a while ago once keyboards started changing. Of course some people do remap normal keyboards to match up with the old ADM3:


Really though, isn't VI part of the POSIX specs or something?

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.

Nintendo Kid posted:

Well it stopped being natural touch typing positions a while ago once keyboards started changing. Of course some people do remap normal keyboards to match up with the old ADM3:


Dear God, everything makes sense now.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

Nintendo Kid posted:

Well it stopped being natural touch typing positions a while ago once keyboards started changing.

Yeah, I meant it was created that way for what they were using at the time.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


The picture mapping vi to contemporary natural keystrokes is blowing my mind.

Nintendo Kid posted:

Really though, isn't VI part of the POSIX specs or something?

Apparently so. vi is referenced in a section that "describes the commands and utilities offered to application programs by POSIX-conformant systems."

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Nintendo Kid posted:

Well it stopped being natural touch typing positions a while ago once keyboards started changing. Of course some people do remap normal keyboards to match up with the old ADM3:

Caps-as-Control is a better location for Control and more useful than Caps Lock.

quote:

Really though, isn't VI part of the POSIX specs or something?

Eh; it is, but like most of POSIX you can have a POSIX-compliant system without it.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Nintendo Kid posted:

Really though, isn't VI part of the POSIX specs or something?

It's part of the Single UNIX Spec, which mattered a little more.

It's also important to remember that vi was designed for efficiency and responsiveness on incredibly slow connections. Modal editing lets you press as few keys as possible to do as much as possible.

psydude posted:

As someone who isn't a *nix admin, but rather a person who just so happens to use *nix, these are all acceptable and understandable answers. With that being said, I'm trying to convince my boss to grow a neckbeard because he says "I just prefer using the CLI" at least twice a day, even when using the UI is actually faster and easier.

I don't have a neckbeard. But once you're familiar with it, the CLI is much, much faster and easier.

BigPaddy
Jun 30, 2008

That night we performed the rite and opened the gate.
Halfway through, I went to fix us both a coke float.
By the time I got back, he'd gone insane.
Plus, he'd left the gate open and there was evil everywhere.


Che Delilas posted:


I see this quite a bit from developers who use Git as their source control. I think what they really mean is, "Every GUI ever made for Git is such hot garbage that it's just faster and easier to learn all the console commands." But they don't want to say that, because otherwise Git is pretty great.


Sourcetree is ok, made up the same guys who do JIRA but there are times when you need to go back to the CLI to run some commands.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

PCjr sidecar posted:

Caps-as-Control is a better location for Control and more useful than Caps Lock.

Probably, but I really detest Escape in place of Tab.

Japanese Dating Sim
Nov 12, 2003

hehe
Lipstick Apathy
Anyone have experience configuring MDT 2013 to properly inject drivers into Lenovo machines? I have MDT set up to inject drivers according to make & model, but Lenovo doesn't follow the typical convention in WMI where you can just pull in the manufacturer and model via wmic computersystem get manufacturer, model. Lenovo seems to instead put the model in the "Version" field.

We're 95% Dells here, which are quick and painless in MDT, but for a given Lenovo Thinkpad t440s, the model will show up as, for example, 20AQCT01WW.

I found this link which seems to have the solution, but I was wondering if anyone had experience with another method.

I wouldn't mind working through the above, but it'd be a side project since this isn't super important. As it is, we get one or two Lenovo's in a month, so I don't mind using MDT to throw the image up and deploying the drivers manually.

Roargasm
Oct 21, 2010

Hate to sound sleazy
But tease me
I don't want it if it's that easy
e: nvm

Roargasm fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Oct 24, 2014

Japanese Dating Sim
Nov 12, 2003

hehe
Lipstick Apathy

Roargasm posted:

Can't you just leave everything enabled in WDS and select "only apply to correct hardware" :confused:

Probably? I don't use WDS - I'd like to, but our MDT setup is an .iso file on a flash drive that's set to browse to a deployment share and pull in the drivers/images/etc from there.

It picks up the drivers according to the model by finding a folder with a matching name - like how they have it here - http://www.deploymentresearch.com/Research/tabid/62/EntryId/112/MDT-2013-Lite-Touch-Driver-Management.aspx (Scenario 3)

Sorry, I might have this set up differently than most places.

Fake edit: Oops, replied before you changed it. I'll leave this here in case it matters to anyone though.

Japanese Dating Sim fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 24, 2014

Roargasm
Oct 21, 2010

Hate to sound sleazy
But tease me
I don't want it if it's that easy
Yeah, I assumed MDT was just WDS + some larger suite of tools instead of a separate thing. WDS is awesome though, look into it if you have a Windows Server license

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
If you've only got a few Lenovos you're working on, I wouldn't do something so in depth. Just get on the machine before you image it and run the right wmic commands to figure out what it thinks its own Model is, and use that in your WMI rule. That's what I did for the handful of Lenovo x120e machines I imaged, each batch we ordered had a different "model" (2 batches, so 2 models) so I just made the WMI query be Model Like X or Model Like Y and called it a day.

Japanese Dating Sim
Nov 12, 2003

hehe
Lipstick Apathy

FISHMANPET posted:

If you've only got a few Lenovos you're working on, I wouldn't do something so in depth. Just get on the machine before you image it and run the right wmic commands to figure out what it thinks its own Model is, and use that in your WMI rule. That's what I did for the handful of Lenovo x120e machines I imaged, each batch we ordered had a different "model" (2 batches, so 2 models) so I just made the WMI query be Model Like X or Model Like Y and called it a day.

Simplistic and easy, I like it. Not sure why that didn't occur to me. I might do it slightly differently, because I just set up one WMI rule according to %Model%, as opposed to multiple rules per model. So the same idea would just be to rename the folder with the Lenovo drivers right before.

Cool, thanks!

Comradephate
Feb 28, 2009

College Slice

Che Delilas posted:

I see this quite a bit from developers who use Git as their source control. I think what they really mean is, "Every GUI ever made for Git is such hot garbage that it's just faster and easier to learn all the console commands." But they don't want to say that, because otherwise Git is pretty great.

This was the impetus for me to get good at the AWS commandline and write a handful of tools to interact with the API - the console is awful, and gets progressively more awful if you have a lot of stuff.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Comradephate posted:

This was the impetus for me to get good at the AWS commandline and write a handful of tools to interact with the API - the console is awful, and gets progressively more awful if you have a lot of stuff.

Have they fixed the S3 web console yet, or is it still completely unusable if you have more than a couple dozen objects stored? But yeah, I pretty quickly moved to doing poo poo via the CLI and tools like s3cmd.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy
If you guys had to buy dozens of new laptops and were required to get three quotes, what would your go-to places be?

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

3 quotes for the same laptop or 3 different brands of laptops?

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


Call from recruiter.

lovely recruiter - "what's your previous salary"
Me - "can't discuss it"
lovely recruiter - "what salary do you want?"
Me - "well for my experience and the role as I saw it described $x amount"
lovely recruiter - "well we're done"
Me- "that's it?"
lovely recruiter "that's it"

Then he hung up. No goodbye. That was the jist of our conversation. 5 minutes. At least he didn't waste my time but my god. I'd write him a letter on LinkedIn but I just don't care that much. Made me laugh my rear end off though.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy

skipdogg posted:

3 quotes for the same laptop or 3 different brands of laptops?

The former, this place already has 100 each of two HP laptop models so I've got to stick with that. In general though I've dealt with CDW and SHI. I'm the type who'd rather get everything on Amazon and repair it myself than deal with HP rma process, but Amazon doesn't seem to have these any cheaper if I'm buying bulk.

myron cope
Apr 21, 2009

There is maybe an opening where I work for a night sysadmin position (which will probably suck but still be better than helpdesk) that I found out about through rumor and hearsay (the way everything works at my job). I took the "sysadmin test" and left an entire section blank (about Exchange) and probably messed up the other two sections pretty good. There were a few questions I felt I got 100% right, but not many. I don't really have "sysadmin" training, and I don't think the test actually matters--if they want you for the position, the test is basically a formality. So I guess I'll see soon if they want me or not. I'm supposed to talk to the sysadmin manager next week about how I did on the test.

I asked if there actually was an opening (and said I just wanted to take the test to see where I was at, which is pretty true anyway) and part of his answer was they're trying "to see whats out there and who might be interested". If they are hiring from within then I feel like my chances are actually pretty good. If it includes outside candidates then maybe not so much--but they'll pay me less than an outside candidate. They've done it before.

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Zero VGS posted:

If you guys had to buy dozens of new laptops and were required to get three quotes, what would your go-to places be?

The VAR/MSP that I'm employed with :smug:

Seriously, send me a PM and I can look into it on Monday.

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice

Zero VGS posted:

If you guys had to buy dozens of new laptops and were required to get three quotes, what would your go-to places be?

Synergy Global Solutions
SHI
CDW

Local VARs are nice.

SSH IT ZOMBIE fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Oct 25, 2014

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

jaegerx posted:

Call from recruiter.

lovely recruiter - "what's your previous salary"
Me - "can't discuss it"
lovely recruiter - "what salary do you want?"
Me - "well for my experience and the role as I saw it described $x amount"
lovely recruiter - "well we're done"
Me- "that's it?"
lovely recruiter "that's it"

Then he hung up. No goodbye. That was the jist of our conversation. 5 minutes. At least he didn't waste my time but my god. I'd write him a letter on LinkedIn but I just don't care that much. Made me laugh my rear end off though.

Quick, concise and to the point.

"lovely"

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

go3 posted:

Quick, concise and to the point.

"lovely"

Recruiter that screens based on salary and nothing else. lovely.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go
The salary negotiation guide explicitly states not to discuss salary until you're getting the job, so I would absolutely love to be asked that question by a recruiter so that I could ask "ooh they've decided to hire me?" in response. This hasn't happened, just something I want to do, because lovely recruiters should be treated shittily.

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Which guide are you referencing?

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I recently had an experience where I did not follow the salary advice and talked about the ranges I thought were appropriate before getting an offer. When the offer came in, it got treated as if I'd already agreed to a salary.

I guess the plus side is that 5 years down the line I can honestly say "Look, I'd really love to talk about salary ranges before getting an offer but I had a bad experience in the past where it got used against me and I just don't want to risk ruining this. It's not you, it's me."

Edit:

Tab8715 posted:

Which guide are you referencing?


http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go

Tab8715 posted:

Which guide are you referencing?
Why this one, my good man. All future comments are quotes, not stealing attribution just posting some highlights. That said, and I'll add my edit here because this part isn't a quote, there are large parts of the salary negotiation guide that I disagree with, but I do think it's something that should be read and learned from, even if I don't consider it gospel.

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

When Does A Salary Negotiation Happen?

Only negotiate salary after you have agreement in principle from someone with hiring authority that, if a mutually acceptable compensation can be agreed upon, you will be hired.

If you’re still at the job interview and you’re talking price you are doing something wrong. (Read the room: it is entirely possible that you came for a job interview, finished it, and proceeded directly to a salary negotiation. That’s probably suboptimal, but it is OK. Just don’t give the employer the option of having the schedule be job interview, salary negotiation, and back to job interview if they discover that you have a spine.) The ideal resolution to the job interview is for both sides to be optimistic about the arrangement, and then you close with a warm handshake and “I look forward to receiving your offer by, oh, would tomorrow be enough time for you to run the numbers?”

You then have a high likelihood of doing your salary negotiation over email, which is likely to your advantage versus doing it in real time. Email gives you arbitrary time to prepare your responses. Especially for engineers, you are likely less disadvantaged by email than you are by having an experienced negotiator talking to you.

MC Fruit Stripe fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Oct 25, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer
there are a lot of people who are simply going to be priced out of positions which pay "competitive" wages. I would rather a recruiter not waste my time if there is no way the hiring company is ever going to meet my salary requirement. Although it's probably better to turn it around, and when asked that question, ask the recruiter if there is a maximum salary the position could pay.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply