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Jesus Christ, dudes, we know next to nothing about the plot and the characters. Don't get hung up about initial concepts that were shown and might have changed.
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Oct 26, 2014 15:25
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 12:00 |
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Yeah don't freak out about data-mined stuff from parts of the game that isn't actually done or in the parts we have access to yet. It's pointless and dumb.
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Oct 26, 2014 15:30
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Scorchy posted:
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Oct 26, 2014 15:44
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In case people haven't experimented much with personal buff spells, most of them are now short cast with short recoveries. Some spells/powers now have instant recovery (e.g. Frenzy and most weapon-creating spells). Also has anyone made a Bleak Walker with The Black Path and Remember Rakhan Field yet? 
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Oct 26, 2014 15:49
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Luckily I scavenged code off other people that unlocks Level 12 and re-allows console cheats ... gonna cheat some chars up to level 12 and test this out  edit: Paladin auras are bugged atm and keep disabling themselves. Avoiding making Paladins atm. The no recovery buffs are nice - I always use the Fighter personal buff at the start of combat now.
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Oct 26, 2014 15:50
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Drifter posted:I absolutely loving hated this as well, and hearing from designers and the like that you pretty much needed to prebuff before fights was a kick in the nuts, it just feels like metagame cheating that needs to be done - and it was boring. Would one way to fix this be to give characters a couple "combat buff" slots where you set the spells/abilities you want use when combat starts? The only real downside I can see is that there might be times when you don't want things to cast immediately, but that potential issue is probably a decent trade-off for not having to do a bunch of pre-buffing or doing the same thing at the beginning of every combat.
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Oct 26, 2014 16:53
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Sensuki posted:Oh wow that's actually an IRL name ... fancy that. Ignore previous comment then. Cherry Venus.
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Oct 26, 2014 16:55
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Having played the new beta build for a bit, I'm mighty pleased for the most part. It is hard to put my finger on what it is exactly, but it felt a lot more complete during combat and interaction. The only thing I'd hope could be changed is if all the new talents got sorted under categories or tabs or something, because right now the only way to figure out what most stuff does is by clicking through it directly, since not all of them are all that obvious.
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Oct 26, 2014 17:27
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rope kid posted:I think people are giving good feedback, but I did not say that and I sure as poo poo did not make these changes for that reason. I sincerely apologize if I annoyed you, I did not mean it that way. I interpreted what you said: "In watching how people play PoE, skill advancement was bordering on mindless. Every player I watched simply mashed one skill for their chosen character, effectively making it a non-choice." as watching people play and seeing them do it not as it is intended. English is not my first language and it may have come across more confrontational than it was ment. I don't know how to say it any better so I will put it bluntly: If people want to be stupid and put it all in one skill, let them. Clever players will figure it out and distribute their points. I just think would be a shame to limit flexibility for all players because some "don't get it". I am really sorry if I came across as insulting.
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Oct 26, 2014 19:40
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Is anyone else auto-starting combat when entering the Skaen dungeon? My party's staying in combat the whole time because of my "boar companion" and when combat starts, it zooms really far out to somewhere in the FoW. I don't have a ranger and the behavior persists on load/reload.
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Oct 26, 2014 19:44
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Hopper posted:I sincerely apologize if I annoyed you, I did not mean it that way. I think the point was that clever players were putting all of their points in one skill, because it was the most effective way to do it. That's pretty boring.
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Oct 26, 2014 19:49
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Ravenfood posted:Is anyone else auto-starting combat when entering the Skaen dungeon? My party's staying in combat the whole time because of my "boar companion" and when combat starts, it zooms really far out to somewhere in the FoW. I don't have a ranger and the behavior persists on load/reload. That bug was present in the last build as well.
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Oct 26, 2014 19:49
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What about skill gated options after options gated by another skill established early? Granted that might get people angry at skill optimization, but if the first skill tests in a conversation go best if you actually have points in more than one skill, I think that might disincentivize minmaxy skill builds. I think part of it might be testing, since it's easiest to just iterate through a run focusing on each skill in turn. However, if hypothetically rather than each skill having pedestrian low skill stuff and a few special moments for really high skill, there were a memorable thing for mixes of stats, that might help offset the feeling that there's more reward for maxing out one skill. That's just an idea though, no idea what the problems making it work well are or how big they would be.
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Oct 26, 2014 20:02
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glomkettle posted:I think the point was that clever players were putting all of their points in one skill, because it was the most effective way to do it. That's pretty boring. The game design encourages it though. If you don't invest in the maximum points of a skill, you will miss out on the higher options available for that skill in scripted interactions, combat and environmental interaction. The reason I choose to max a skill is to experience those options. If the game design had unique options for mixed skills (such as "The PC must have 4 in Mechanics AND 4 in Lore to unlock this option") then I would do it ... but I haven't seen anything to encourage me doing this yet. Players are used to maxing something because the other option is almost never rewarded at all, or often enough to worth considering. The problem is the RPG Design in general - not the way skills are chosen by the player. Sensuki fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 20:05
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glomkettle posted:I think the point was that clever players were putting all of their points in one skill, because it was the most effective way to do it. I dont know, in a game that is going out of its way to have both high and low skill check thresholds putting all your points into one skill doesn't seem very clever.
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Oct 26, 2014 20:08
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FRINGE posted:Why change this? Her feet were too big for a female, sorry. As for the skill/talent changes, yeah, it sucks to have stuff be different like that while keeping the skill checks the same. But what if they don't keep the skill checks the same? It isn't done yet, and skill checks seem like something that'd be finalized soon before release, after all.
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Oct 26, 2014 20:10
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Drifter posted:So Cadegund is a guy now? Wasn't she an awesome gun-paladin or something? This sucks.
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Oct 26, 2014 20:43
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So first Cadegund was a party member, then just a normal NPC, now I hear she's no longer even a badass lady? #cadegate
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Oct 26, 2014 20:46
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THank god, my verisimilitude was almost threatened for a second there.
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Oct 26, 2014 21:20
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Sensuki posted:The game design encourages it though. If you don't invest in the maximum points of a skill, you will miss out on the higher options available for that skill in scripted interactions, combat and environmental interaction.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:41
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Anyone finding the enemies a lot tougher than before? The spectres in the western dungeon were completely pushing my poo poo in, I was barely doing any damage to them and they swarm like 6-8 at a time. Then I tried going into the Skaen dungeon and the archers there were back to being murder machines. They targetted my squishy backlines and were basically 2 or 3-shotting them with long range sneak attacks. My own BB rogue was doing maybe 1/4th of that on sneak attacks if I could get them off, died every fight, and her Escape skill doesn't seem to work reliably. Sometimes she just wouldn't go anywhere, sometimes she teleported halfway to the target site.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:11
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All(?) enemies have higher defenses and accuracy than before. So, yes. Escape is broken, you crash into other creatures if they are in your path, and you also crash into the edge of the navmesh if you do it over a rock or something.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:13
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Sensuki posted:The game design encourages it though. If you don't invest in the maximum points of a skill, you will miss out on the higher options available for that skill in scripted interactions, combat and environmental interaction. The reason I choose to max a skill is to experience those options. They could settle for a (must have 5 total points in Mechanics and Lore). That way you accommodate people who maximize one skill and people who spread out. You still run into the fact that combat talents mainly give Athletics and nothing else though.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:33
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But I don't want skills to be tied to talents. Like I said, it creates an unfun choice between playing the character you want for combat, or the character you want for roleplaying out of combat. [why-can't-we-have-both-mexican-taco-girl.gif]
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Oct 27, 2014 00:17
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There are other loading screens in the game files for areas that aren't in the beta(the filenames begin with lsc_) for example the loading screens for the stronghold and the mega dungeon: Od Nua:  Stronghold:  Sensuki posted:But I don't want skills to be tied to talents. Like I said, it creates an unfun choice between playing the character you want for combat, or the character you want for roleplaying out of combat. But it's the same with attributes, playing a cipher with low Intellect and might, but with high res and perception and using the aoe damage powers isn't a good idea. prometheus12345 fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 01:05
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The fact that attributes are currently imbalanced for classes/trap choices are possible should not dictate whether the skill and talent design is the same.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:09
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That's not what he said and even if it was it wouldn't be true. There's no trap attributes for classes right now. Also as long as they skill-only talents are removed the system works - just instead of having to choose "how to spec your combat" and "how to spec your out of combat" at the same time you choose between "I decide what to take based on out-of-combat effect and shape my combat around it" and "I decide what I take based on the combat effects and determine my out-of-combat effects that way". The latter system is simpler, requires less foreknowledge of the underlying system and upcoming game and also leads to far more "believable" skill layouts - no one-skill focuses and more multiple smaller peaks related to what the character actually does. On the other hand it can't be manipulated as easily by someone who does have knowledge of the system and game. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 01:22
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Sensuki posted:The fact that attributes are currently imbalanced for classes/trap choices are possible should not dictate whether the skill and talent design is the same. I was not talking about trap/imbalanced choices, but that you need to change your playstyle a bit if you choose different attributes. A low might and high resolve cipher should use more debuffs and a low resolve/high might should use more direct damage spells.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:25
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DatonKallandor posted:That's not what he said and even if it was it wouldn't be true. There's no trap attributes for classes right now. Yes there is - dump Perception to 3 on any character. quote:You choose between "I decide what to take based on out-of-combat effect and shape my combat around it" and "I decide what I take based on the combat effects and determine my out-of-combat effects that way". I don't want to do that. I also play on Hard so I need to pick optimal talent choices for combat. I disagree that the new system requires less foreknowledge of the skill system - it is unconventional, so the player may not immediately realize they are even making a choice. There's nothing wrong with one-skill focuses and the bit about "what the character actually does" is a tall order, some of the skill bonuses might make sense but not all of them - Bull's Strength or whatever grants +2 to Lore ... hahah. I couldn't give a rats that it's more simulationist, I don't LARP when I play games.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:37
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Sensuki posted:I couldn't give a rats that it's more simulationist, I don't LARP when I play games. You take them much more seriously than that.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:45
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Sensuki posted:Yes there is - dump Perception to 3 on any character. Isn't perception used a lot in dialogues though?
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Oct 27, 2014 01:48
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I think so. My point is that dumping Perception below 10 on pretty much any character is a really bad idea, particularly in the latest patch as enemies have increased defenses across the board.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:57
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Still workable on buffing and healing focused characters and other characters still work offensively if you make someone else in the party debuff enemy defenses. Not to mention 10 being the starting value for an attribute and the values being negative is a pretty huge "drop this at your own risk" sign.
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Oct 27, 2014 02:22
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DatonKallandor posted:Still workable on buffing and healing focused characters and other characters still work offensively if you make someone else in the party debuff enemy defenses. Not to mention 10 being the starting value for an attribute and the values being negative is a pretty huge "drop this at your own risk" sign. Yeah, dumping stats that low isn't really a trap as much as just poor judgement. Bringing a near-sighted character into battle is gonna suck, no matter how smart or strong he is.
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Oct 27, 2014 02:46
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Krowley posted:Yeah, dumping stats that low isn't really a trap as much as just poor judgement. Bringing a near-sighted character into battle is gonna suck, no matter how smart or strong he is. Please don't zatoichi-shame.
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Oct 27, 2014 03:36
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Drifter posted:So Cadegund is a guy now? Wasn't she an awesome gun-paladin or something? Wait. What?
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Oct 27, 2014 04:33
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Sensuki posted:I don't LARP when I play games. Well no, because video games are not live action, so no one LARPs while playing them. Do you mean you don't role play?
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Oct 27, 2014 06:52
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Chairchucker posted:Well no, because video games are not live action, so no one LARPs while playing them. Do you mean you don't role play? He roleplays as an unfettered A.I. program intent on dominating a system rather than enjoying it.
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Oct 27, 2014 06:56
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DatonKallandor posted:Still workable on buffing and healing focused characters and other characters still work offensively if you make someone else in the party debuff enemy defenses. Not to mention 10 being the starting value for an attribute and the values being negative is a pretty huge "drop this at your own risk" sign. There's only one character class focused on that - The Priest. It's probably the only class you could do it with and it would still be a bad idea.
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Oct 27, 2014 07:31
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 12:00 |
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Not having the beta makes it really hard to judge how well this new system works, and the wiki is pretty out of date (don't envy the guys updating that, with the ground moving out from under them every few weeks, heh). But I'm trying to imagine how various skills might be available to, say, a fighter under this system. Are there lots of new talents that are based on knowledge to give lore? Perhaps talents where the fighter gets point or two of armour penetration from studying the designs of different armours, or gets defense by studying the traditional fighting styles of various cultures or animals toi better predict their attacks? How can fighters get mechanics? Can it be justified that, perhaps knockdown, based on an understanding of balance and momentum, might grant + mechanics? Perhaps a talent offering a chance to resist knockdown effects for the same reasons? Maybe a talent that gives better criticals against armoured opponents by understanding the way the plates of their armour move and how to angle in an attack at the joints? What sort of combat ability might grant a fighter survival? Maybe... learning to coat a weapon with natural poison harvested from the wild? Hard to think of much... How about Stealth? Maybe... a feinting attack could be considered to use misdirection and so grant stealth? Bit of a stretch. If talents are the only way skills can be built up, then it's going to take a LOT of talents, and possibly some fairly flimsy justifications within them, in order to present adequate selections of talents to each class that will allow every class to built skills the way they want.
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Oct 27, 2014 08:00
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