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Edited: Eh, I like Arado's more detailed explanation better.
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Oct 25, 2014 07:36
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S.D. posted:I would love if someone could summarize the Masaki & Shu thing, in that I'm never going to play Lord of Elemental and I'm never sure how the storylines change when they move the mainline SRW arcs into OGs.  WARNING. I AM ABOUT TO GO INTO BIG SPOILERS FOR THE OG TIMELINE. ANYONE WHO WANTS TO PLAY THE GAMES DISCUSSED BELOW, STOP HERE AND IGNORE THE REST OF THIS POST.Okay, so some backstory first. All of the Elemental Lords (Masaki included) are not from La Gias, but are actually from Earth summoned there by magical means. That said, a lot of the Masoukishin cast are from La Gias, they just have a thing with surface worlders dropping in at random. Masaki arrives there some time after his biological parents are killed in a terrorist attack (IIRC), and is adopted by Zeoroot Zenosakis (trust me, his name is a doozy and has been translated about 5 different ways as of this posting), a native of the Kingdom of Lan Gran and an accomplished swordsman. Ultimately, Masaki is chosen by Cyfis, goddess of wind, to be Cybuster's herald (read: pilot) and receives Shiro and Kuro. Then, things go bad. Zeoroot is murdered by Shu (kicking off their rivalry), for seemingly no real sensible reason. Eventually, Masaki chases Shu and winds up on the surface during Shu's attack on the Antarctica base in Ryusei mission 6. Also, fun trivia, Shu acts as an anti-piracy countermeasure during this sequence in the remake to rework things for the OG continuity (long story). This ends part 1 of the first Masoukishin game. Remember that point for later. Masaki's story continues through OG1 and OG2, with him returning to La Gias intermittently. Then, OG Gaiden happens. The final boss of that game is a well-known stage called Ragnarok, where you fight Shu in the Neo Granzon, the upgraded form of the Granzon. Shu dies after this battle, and Masaki returns once more to La Gias. He then somehow gets even more lost than he did in Ryusei mission 12; I poo poo you not, Masaki gets so lost that he fails to notice that he passes through dimensions and winds up on a Dyson Sphere that you can only get onto via special means. Those means? The Space-Time Bomb from another anime series, Super Dimensional Century Orguss. For more on that, go to the SRW Z1 LP that Brunom1 and Dr Pepper are running right now. This kicks off Another Century's Episode:R, a game from a distant cousin series to SRW that is built more like the Armored Core games. This game is not fun and can be skipped over despite being canon to the OG timeline (all it does is explain where Masaki, Kyosuke and Ryusei were before 2nd OGs; most of everyone else we've met in the LP just got a short manga chapter released with 2nd OGs instead). Anyhow, this leads to the aforementioned SRW EX and its OG adaptation in the 2nd Super Robot Wars Original Generations. Masaki's route deals with a giant civil war in Lan Gran fighting alongside its ruler, Prince Feilord Gran Belisia, on one side of the conflict. Shu also has a route, where he is resurrected (with amnesia) by the Cult of Volkruss, and travels with some cult members and Earth pilots as well (nobody we'll meet in the LP, though). Who is this Volkruss, you ask? Volkruss is a dark god on La Gias and managed to enslave Shu and control him. Shu ultimately reverse trolls the leader of the cult into giving back his memories and turns on the cult to do his own thing because Shu hates being used against his will more than anything else in the world. Shu then assists the Steel Dragons (with Masaki finding nearly every opportunity to criticize Shu because of their rivalry) for the remainder of 2nd OGs, wherein the Elemental Lords and companions return to La Gias after that game ends. Part 2 of the first Masoukishin game starts at this point. Yes, everything from OG1 to 2nd OGs are in essence, interquels to Masaki's first game. At the end of the first game, Masaki and company defeat Volkruss and saves the day. If you play your cards right, Shu also assists in this battle as he's sort of a secret for Part 2. Unfortunately, the rivalry continues, despite Shu essentially telling Masaki that he was a puppet of Volkruss because Masaki really, REALLY knows how to hold a grudge. We'll see some of that show up in this LP later on. We move onto the second game, Revelation of Evil God (RoEG for short). A lot of stuff happens here that I won't discuss because it leads into probably the biggest flaw of Masaki's side games for me. There are A FUCKTON of other characters who have their own stories playing out alongside Masaki's, with each successive game introducing more and more characters. Masoukishin 1 ends with about 60 playable characters. By the fourth game, you're running with at least ONE HUNDRED playable characters, with about 10-12 of them debuting in the fourth game alone, but somehow were doing stuff in the previous three games we never saw. Anyhow, remember how Shu murdered Zeoroot just for kicks? Well, Shu finally reveals why he killed him in RoEG to Masaki. See, the Zenosakis family carries a curse; they are fated to be vessels to Volkruss' fragments, no matter what they do. Outside of horrible death, which essentially saves them. The "Volkruss" that Masaki defeated in his first game? Just a fragment of Volkruss, not the full package. It's around this time that Masaki and company realize there's a problem in the form of Zeoroot's biological daughter, Presia. She has the curse (reflected in the fact that she stopped aging at 10 years old, which in timeline perspective, was three years prior to LotE 1) of Volkruss and Shu wants to naturally ruin Volkruss' poo poo. The "bad ending" of RoEG involves just that happening, Shu murdering Presia. However, the canonical "Presia Ending" has Masaki and company find a way to purge the Volkruss curse from Presia and save her life. You'd think this would end Masaki and Shu's rivalry...but it doesn't. Mostly so Masaki can actually stay slightly more relevant in his own games. Yes, Masaki manages to lose relevance in the series he's supposed to be the lead character of. Okay, that's enough  for now. As for Pride of Justice and Coffin of the End, you'll have to go elsewhere for how the rivalry plays out there. I lost a lot of interest in the Masoukishin games after RoEG, so that's where my knowledge ends outside of internet stuff.e:f;b....or not.
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Oct 25, 2014 07:37
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gently caress yeah, the Grungust. Awesome as hell. Pity though that it isn't until freaking /2nd OGs/, four games into the series that we see an upgrade to the Grungust. Everyone else gets upgrades out the wazoo, but poor Irm has to go through three entire games before he sees an upgrade to his beloved Super Robot. Still doesn't stop him from kicking rear end, mind you.
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Oct 25, 2014 10:25
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Uh, just want to correct one thing. You CAN deploy the Huckebein 009, just assign it to Latooni or Rai. It's not plot-locked out, Irm's just assigned himself to a jet. That also makes it really easy to kill Elzam because we have another good robot. Also we just got one of the games most powerful robots, Irm will be our requisite poo poo kicker of all things Boss from this point on and now it makes more sense who he's based on. Kouji Kabuto and Haran Banjou, He will, in fact, take several scenes that were initially Banjous in other games and fulfill the same role.
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Oct 25, 2014 10:56
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Blaze Dragon posted:This is the first time I see an use for the Gust Lander, I'll have to remember it. To be honest, every time I played OG1 I just stuck with the Wing Gust for movement and the Grungust for fighting (which it does awesomely, hell yeah Grungust). It's like Getter in other games, Getter-2 for movement, Getter-1 for fighting, Getter-3 gets ignored. In my opinion the Type-1 is Daitarn 3 more than it is a Getter. More or less the same sort of deal in regards to the form changes for sure, but you're going to only be relying on one pilots spirit pool and piloting skillset as opposed to an interchangeable three. As far as characters and their mechs go, Irm and his Grungust Type-1 are close to my total favourites and only edged out on personal whimsy regarding another character we've yet to meet. The thread's talked about how Irm comes across as the matured form of the hot-blood super robot pilot, and with that the Grungust Type-1 just seems right for him to receive, and no offense to the Type-0 and other variations we've seen but this baby is my favourite in terms of what it can do and how it looks/animates. On top of that it fills a sorely needed spot in the roster on this route but in every OG game I've played Irm and the Grungust Type-1 have held their own even as the PTs and Supers and their capabilities get more ridiculous around them. Grungust Type-1 all the way.
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Oct 25, 2014 12:36
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Irm only wishes he was as cool as Banjo Haran. 
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Oct 25, 2014 12:58
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So do I and so do you.
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Oct 25, 2014 13:04
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This Lord of Elemental stuff makes me wonder if Banpresto ever got Escaflowne into the series. I mean, Elemental Lord is totally a Dunbine ripoff, don't get me wrong, but I'm seeing definite Escaflowne influences as well.
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Oct 25, 2014 14:09
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KataraniSword posted:This Lord of Elemental stuff makes me wonder if Banpresto ever got Escaflowne into the series. I mean, Elemental Lord is totally a Dunbine ripoff, don't get me wrong, but I'm seeing definite Escaflowne influences as well. They did, but it came before Escaflowne. 2nd Super Robot Wars came out in 1991, and Escaflowne came out in 1996, which WAS the same year as the Lord of the Elemental Video Game, but Super Robot Wars EX was in 1994. To codify, 2nd Super Robot Wars was the debut of Masaki and Shu, Lord of the Elemental (Super Robot Wars Gaiden) is the story that was entirely based on the Elemental Lord world and storyline, exploring Masaki's backstory. However Super Robot Wars EX took place in La Gias and served as the basis for the plot of 2nd Super Robot Wars OG, so La Gias was already developed before Escaflowne was a thing. So there's no Escaflowne influences at all. And Escaflowne has been in SRW Compact 3 (for the Wonderswan) and nothing else. Onmi fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 14:13
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the problem, however, with the Grungust is that it clearly uses anime magic to transform and that is UNACCEPTABLE to me Like, the head just stretches out really far to become the Wing Gust's nosecone and the legs just sort of flatten into wings The Perfect Change Grungust looks incredibly awkward as a result
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Oct 25, 2014 15:27
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Gasp! A Super Robot with an improbable transformation? Blasphemy!
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Oct 25, 2014 15:45
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Gyra_Solune posted:the problem, however, with the Grungust is that it clearly uses anime magic to transform and that is UNACCEPTABLE to me I remember seeing the justification for this recently-- I think it was either a shape memory alloy or some form of Machine Cells.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:19
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Son Ryo posted:I remember seeing the justification for this recently-- I think it was either a shape memory alloy or some form of Machine Cells. Makes sense, same reasoning for the Colossal Blade Mk.III, and both are created by Tesla Liecht.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:37
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Seyser Koze posted:This is the Keitoragouken, whose kanji I cannot parse for the life of me so I'm just going to go with the Atlus "Calamity Sword" translation. You'd think it would be a dynamic kill, but no, not this time.  This one's a toughie, so I don't blame you at all. Keito and Ragou are the Japanese names for the Hindu astrological "planets", Rahu and Ketu, the severed head and headless body of a demonic snake which cause eclipses when the snake eats the sun or the moon. I'm no astronomer, so I don't exactly know what the "north and south lunar nodes" mean, but anyway, Rahu is bad luck so "Calamity Blade" is totally easier to explain to people than "They're the asura that were created when Vishnu cut Svarbhanu's head off and the head and body fused with a demon snake that eats the sun and the moon and they're bad juju"
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Oct 25, 2014 18:01
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I guess that explains the "There are two stars of calamity..." line when using the similar attack on the Type-2.
Seyser Koze fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 18:26
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I'm actually impressed that they tried to localize it into "Calamity Blade" as opposed to keeping it "Ketu-Rahu Blade" or somesuch.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:51
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Rorahusky posted:gently caress yeah, the Grungust. Awesome as hell. Pity though that it isn't until freaking /2nd OGs/, four games into the series that we see an upgrade to the Grungust. Everyone else gets upgrades out the wazoo, but poor Irm has to go through three entire games before he sees an upgrade to his beloved Super Robot. Still doesn't stop him from kicking rear end, mind you.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:09
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Seyser Koze posted:I guess that explains the "There are two stars of calamity..." line when using the similar attack on the Type-2. I'm pretty sure that's this Grungust, and it's good to finally get an explanation for that random line. Remember the Keitoragouken is only used by the Type-1, the Type-2's sword is the Keitoshungokuken/Doom Blade.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:44
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This must be what it feels like to be Inez from Nadesico, popping up at random times and pontificating about random subjects whether anyone wants to hear it or not. Anyway, Irm and the Grungust are among my favorites marriages of pilot and machine in OG, because he always has something to contribute as a solid frontline tank. He may not be spectacular, but the Mullet and his Getter-alike always come through in the clutch, even before his ace bonus kicks in and makes him the Love Machine.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:16
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vibratingsheep posted:This must be what it feels like to be Inez from Nadesico, popping up at random times and pontificating about random subjects whether anyone wants to hear it or not. I don't use Irm that much because he seems so unconnected from the rest of the plot. He has his stuff with his dad and Ring Mao that's basically all in the past and unimportant to the main plot, and he has one minor thing in OG2 that didn't interest me much, but aside from that he really doesn't feel like he fits in that much around the rest of the cast-- I honestly can't think of any other pilots who are specifically friends with him and get their own scenes together. On top of that, the Grungust is very definitely much more like Daitarn 3 than it is Getter, down to the tank forms serving similar functions as I mentioned earlier.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:56
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Son Ryo posted:I don't use Irm that much because he seems so unconnected from the rest of the plot. He has his stuff with his dad and Ring Mao that's basically all in the past and unimportant to the main plot, and he has one minor thing in OG2 that didn't interest me much, but aside from that he really doesn't feel like he fits in that much around the rest of the cast-- I honestly can't think of any other pilots who are specifically friends with him and get their own scenes together. This is why I wish the other 4/F people would show up, especially since two of the ones we haven't seen invented the Jet Magnum and Gespenst Kick and another is basically Noriko Takaya. It pretty much doesn't matter what they show up in, make up random Gespensts or Grungusts or hell, something completely new and unexpected. We don't have an OG equivalent for an Evangelion or pretty much any of the big combining robots (seriously there's like two things I can think of with three pilots in them and that's as high as it goes) so there's a good start.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:11
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Too many pilots and it just becomes dumb. Doesnt Dancouga Nova Max God (Buddha Shiva YHWH...)have something like 5 or 6 pilots? This aint super sentai. Its giant mecha anime. And I think the OGs thus far dont really lend themselves to a Voltron type dealie. Three is a good max number for OG gattai shenanigans. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 01:14
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Son Ryo posted:I don't use Irm that much because he seems so unconnected from the rest of the plot. He has his stuff with his dad and Ring Mao that's basically all in the past and unimportant to the main plot, and he has one minor thing in OG2 that didn't interest me much, but aside from that he really doesn't feel like he fits in that much around the rest of the cast-- I honestly can't think of any other pilots who are specifically friends with him and get their own scenes together. Well it doesn't help that when his plot did arrive it was stolen out from under him, and at all times he's essentially otherwise "The Super Robot Protagonist whos story ended and is now an adult." Though he does have friends, he's pretty much friendly with every one else onboard the ships. But other than that, well no, none of the other SRW 4/F originals have been introduced into OGs yet, just him and Ring. I still always used him because the Grungust was awesome, Irm was awesome, and he never let me down. He also made killing bosses so easy. Rigged Death Trap posted:Too many pilots and it just becomes dumb. Doesnt Dancouga Nova Max God (Buddha Shiva YHWH...)have something like 5 or 6 pilots? Combattler V was the first combining robot with 5 pilots. Your Mecha Fu is weak.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:25
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Mazinger/Getter/Gundam is the popular conception of the foundation of the genre, but I would argue that Combattler/Voltes are almost as important, and those are both 5-seaters. It'd be out of place in OG1, sure, but the series long ago passed the point of "realistic" and "plausible" and having a bunch of the 2nd/3rd-tier scrub pilots combining into some weird multi-pilot Gespent combination is no weirder than the fact that those pilots are still around. (Also, to speak vaguely about non-OG originals, there's no way the series doesn't see at least one 4- and one 5-pilot unit in the next game or two.) Edit: Yeah, this. Onmi posted:
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Oct 26, 2014 01:27
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Also AHEM VALCAZARD!
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Oct 26, 2014 01:32
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Too many pilots and it just becomes dumb. Doesnt Dancouga Nova Max God (Buddha Shiva YHWH...)have something like 5 or 6 pilots? Everyone's already pointed out Combattler V and Voltes V, so I'm just gonna say: are you saying that super sentai is not a good inspiration for SRW? Because that's wrong. That is so wrong. Bring on the five pilot combinations!
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Oct 26, 2014 01:38
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CaptainRat posted:Mazinger/Getter/Gundam is the popular conception of the foundation of the genre, but I would argue that Combattler/Voltes are almost as important, and those are both 5-seaters. It'd be out of place in OG1, sure, but the series long ago passed the point of "realistic" and "plausible" and having a bunch of the 2nd/3rd-tier scrub pilots combining into some weird multi-pilot Gespent combination is no weirder than the fact that those pilots are still around. Realistic and plausible never really were on the table to begin with. Its just that none of the OG originals have that sort of 5+ man team dynamic good enough for a big old combiner. And the 2nd/3rd tier scrubs arent that interesting to begin with, quantity not amounting to Quality and all that.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:53
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MarsDragon posted:Everyone's already pointed out Combattler V and Voltes V, so I'm just gonna say: are you saying that super sentai is not a good inspiration for SRW? Because that's wrong. That is so wrong. It's more that it's kind of silly from a gameplay perspective. You never saw the individual Combattler/Voltes/Dancougar robots after the SRW in which they were introduced, because they were terrible (Dancougar a bit less so, but then they just made Dancougar grotesquely broken to compensate). And they had to be terrible, because if they weren't, you'd be choosing between one good robot and five good robots, which isn't a tough choice to make. After SRW3/SRW@, they were basically single non-combining robots with four fleshy SP tanks riding along, 2-3 of whom were completely irrelevant story-wise.
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Oct 26, 2014 02:13
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CaptainRat posted:Mazinger/Getter/Gundam is the popular conception of the foundation of the genre, but I would argue that Combattler/Voltes are almost as important, and those are both 5-seaters. It'd be out of place in OG1, sure, but the series long ago passed the point of "realistic" and "plausible" and having a bunch of the 2nd/3rd-tier scrub pilots combining into some weird multi-pilot Gespent combination is no weirder than the fact that those pilots are still around. Rigged Death Trap posted:Realistic and plausible never really were on the table to begin with. I'm getting the image of Katina, raging at her endless snubbing for the biggest and best units, bludgeoning the Octo Squad into welding all their Gespents to the Giganscudo now. It can't manveuver except in space, but damned if spamming 10 machine guns doesn't kill some poo poo with every pilot getting Katina's Hot Blood spam.
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Oct 26, 2014 08:48
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Super Sentai *is* Super Robots, only difference is that it's in live-action. And I would legit like to see a multiperson combiner OG apart from Valzacard; it would be a nice change from the endless succession of Not Gundams and uninteresting/absent super robots Banpresto tends to make.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:19
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CmdrKing posted:I'm getting the image of Katina, raging at her endless snubbing for the biggest and best units, bludgeoning the Octo Squad into welding all their Gespents to the Giganscudo now. It can't manveuver except in space, but damned if spamming 10 machine guns doesn't kill some poo poo with every pilot getting Katina's Hot Blood spam. If you want a vision of Katina's future, imagine a dozen Gespents welded into the shape of a giant boot kicking a Barrelion, forever
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Oct 26, 2014 22:23
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Wounded Land posted:And I would legit like to see a multiperson combiner OG apart from Valzacard; it would be a nice change from the endless succession of Not Gundams and uninteresting/absent super robots Banpresto tends to make.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:21
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My bit of Shu trivia: it isn't his actual name. His actual name, as told to me by a friend who is far more into giant robots than I, is Christoph Gran Mac Sord. Or something similar; he linked me to a localization that gave it as Christoph Gran McSword. Yeah.
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Oct 29, 2014 05:39
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Mors Rattus posted:My bit of Shu trivia: it isn't his actual name. His actual name, as told to me by a friend who is far more into giant robots than I, is Christoph Gran Mac Sord. Or something similar; he linked me to a localization that gave it as Christoph Gran McSword. Yeah it's Christoph Gran McSword and Chistoph Zeo Volkruss. I would spoil the latter but it has zero meaning for OGs. What's funnier that Shu previously made an attempt for Cybuster, that's what lead him to create his Familiar, Chika. It just turned out the bloody bird was SO ANNOYING he basically went "Not worth it. Nope."
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Oct 29, 2014 06:29
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It's a shame Shu went for his current name. I'd totally dig a Professor Gran McSword. 
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Oct 29, 2014 06:58
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Pooncha posted:It's a shame Shu went for his current name. I'd totally dig a Professor Gran McSword. I feel that Midorikawa growling out 'CHRISTOPH GRAN MCSWORD!' in his Masaki voice would be the best thing in all of ever.
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Oct 29, 2014 07:15
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Welp, now you've done it, I'm hearing all of Shu's lines with a Scottish accent.
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Oct 30, 2014 15:28
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anilEhilated posted:Welp, now you've done it, I'm hearing all of Shu's lines with a Scottish accent. He's a McSword, not a MacSword. Imagine him with an Irish brogue instead!
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Oct 30, 2014 16:52
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A Super Robot is a pretty good present. But where do you get the gift-wrap?
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Nov 2, 2014 20:21
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Glazius posted:A Super Robot is a pretty good present. But where do you get the gift-wrap? No clue, maybe they can just put a giant bow on it.
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Nov 2, 2014 21:49
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