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JT Jag posted:I think my favorite gag of this entire season so far is Meelo's unrealistically realistic sketch of Korra and people thought meelo drew those stick figures for bolin
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Nov 4, 2014 12:55
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Flat Banana posted:This is the problem I have with the "Asianness" of the entire Avatar franchise. There's an embrace of an 'Asian aesthetic' but it's only a partial embrace and it's apparent in how names are given. There is probably a Lit paper waiting to be written about how Asian-ness is depicted and constructed in the West based on ATLA+ALOK. The creators have always cherrypicked aspects from different cultures: Republic City was a combination of Chicago and Shanghai, and Hiroshi Sato was based on Henry Ford. The Earth Kingdom is a mixture of Chinese and Korean influences rather than explicitly either nation (though there's admittedly more China in there). I don't necessarily think it has to be all or nothing in a fantasy setting, though I can definitely see why it might upset people and can definitely see where you're coming from. Pththya-lyi posted:Just as an FYI, the Water Tribes are roughly Inuit/Yupik, while the Air Nomads are roughly Nepalese/Hindu. Then there's those Meso-American dudes from Season 3. The Air Nomads are much closer to Tibetan Buddhism than Nepalese Hinduism: Aang and Pema both have traditional Tibetan names and Gyatso and Tenzin are both named after the Dalai Lama. Traditional Air Nomad clothing is also really close to the clothing of Tibetan monks. Don't forget the Swampbenders too, who were more stereotypical redneck Gulf Coast (or maybe Florida Everglades/Panhandle? Don't know my American swamp cultures) than China/Korea or Inuit/Yupik. IIRC wasn't there a black Air Acolyte at the Southern Air Temple in Season 2 of Korra? They just showed him for a split second helping to bring Tenzin's family in. Gyatso was also black in the movie we shall not name but that movie was an explosion of racial and ethnic casting issues. Sato fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 16:21
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Sydin posted:Yeah honestly I think it's a lot less that Kuvira can't read people, and more that she's overestimating her own abilities & kinda buying into her own hype. Bolin was brought into the circle only because he had a diplomatic use anyway, so Kuvira probably assumed that a mixture of lies and fear would keep Bolin in line like it always has, and that even if it didn't, he wasn't a major threat. Likewise, she bought Zhu Li's little speech because she recited all the great things Kuvira always says about herself, and Kuvira bought it because she's so far down the rabbit hole at this point she believes the salespitch is reality. I think Kuvira is going to have to go through a big change of heart or a role reversal if she's not going to end up being the big bad of the season. Otherwise, I foresee her being blown up along with her nuclear spirit bombs. JT Jag posted:I think my favorite gag of this entire season so far is Meelo's unrealistically realistic sketch of Korra More Meelo being a talented artist and less of a filler on screen would be my wish for the rest of the season.
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Nov 4, 2014 18:51
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Sato posted:The Air Nomads are much closer to Tibetan Buddhism than Nepalese Hinduism Argh, you're right. How could I mess that up? There's also those Sand Tribe guys in the desert, they're Tuareg.
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Nov 4, 2014 18:57
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Bataar Jr.'s gonna backstab Kuvira, she will try to bend his metal epaulettes (like she did with Varrick) and he'll reply "It's pure platinum. Bitch  "
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Nov 4, 2014 18:59
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uncleKitchener posted:I think Kuvira is going to have to go through a big change of heart or a role reversal if she's not going to end up being the big bad of the season. Otherwise, I foresee her being blown up along with her nuclear spirit bombs. Or she could be Kassad posted:And then you've got people like Ghazan or the Guru Laghima who have Indian-sounding names when there's no India-equivalent in Avatar. Tenzin's youngest son, Rohan, also has an Indian name, though he was explicitly named after the baby nephew of one of the creators. Pththya-lyi posted:There's also those Sand Tribe guys in the desert, they're Tuareg. Forgot about them! There's also the Bhanti tribe that helped Korra recover from her amnesia and connect with Wan; they seemed somewhat autonomous from the Fire Nation. Not sure where the inspiration was, though, maybe someplace in Southeast Asia like Java? I'm curious about how some characters like Iroh have accents while members of their family don't. Where exactly did they get it from? PiedPiper posted:Bataar Jr.'s gonna backstab Kuvira, she will try to bend his metal epaulettes (like she did with Varrick) and he'll reply "It's pure platinum. Bitch Bataar's legitimately the only character in the series I've ever wanted to punch in the face. He has such a weaselly voice too. His voice actor's really selling it. Sato fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 19:23
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Sato posted:I'm curious about how some characters like Iroh have accents while members of their family don't. Where exactly did they get it from? I'm pretty sure they got it from being Mako and not Rufio. HTH
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Nov 4, 2014 19:35
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Sato posted:The creators have always cherrypicked aspects from different cultures: Republic City was a combination of Chicago and Shanghai, and Hiroshi Sato was based on Henry Ford. I've always seen Republic City as being more like a combination of New York and...New York. It really doesn't strike me as even slightly Asian. The thugs even have Brooklyn accents. Let's face it, the United Republic is basically America. EDIT: And it's an accurate portrayal too--it's pretty clear that the United Republic is way more awesome and a vastly better place to live than any of the other nations. 
Hauldren Collider fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 23:50
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I got a Hong Kong vibe from the place.
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Nov 5, 2014 00:05
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Kassad posted:And then you've got people like Ghazan There is also Eska and Desna, named after rivers, one in Alaska (so I guess it keeps with the Inuit culture?) and the other in... Ukraine. Sato posted:That's a fair point, and I'll agree that it was poorly portrayed, though I'll stand by my assertion that this was what Bryke intended. Sato posted:We were probably supposed to guess that Unalaq's vision was increased communion with the spirits under the supervision of Vaatu. I think we were also supposed to draw a parallel between Unalaq's disgust at the commercialization of the Glacier Spirits Festival and fundamentalist Christian disgust at the commercialization of Christmas to underline Unalaq's fundamentalism. Sato posted:As for followers, I think Unalaq was supposed to be the main follower who implemented Vaatu's commands. Unalaq had Desna and Eska, who followed him blindly until they saw UnaVaatu, and the rest of the Northern Water Tribe, where Unalaq implemented his initial goals and made a more spiritual society; we never saw any members challenge him so I guess we were supposed to think they all followed him? As for Eska and Desna, their relationship with their father was as poorly defined as Unalaq's ideals, so there is no way to know why they were loyal to him. Force of habit?
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Nov 5, 2014 00:45
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Hauldren Collider posted:I've always seen Republic City as being more like a combination of New York and...New York. It really doesn't strike me as even slightly Asian. The thugs even have Brooklyn accents. Mraagvpeine posted:I got a Hong Kong vibe from the place. I went back to the first art book and it looks like we were all right--all four cities were listed as influences. I want to say I read somewhere that the triads were based on the Chinese triads of the twenties, but I think there were a lot of Western noir influences worked in--after all, would we be able to tell the triad members are gangsters if they don't have Brooklyn accents? It does seem pretty Asian to me--pretty much all the skyscrapers look like pagodas with dozens of floors. It's easier to see in the line art. ETA: X_Toad posted:One of the main problems with Unalaq is that, aside from the poor portrayal of what he was supposed to come off as, he also had a lot of unrelated evil tropes attached to him for some reason : his pettiness and envy towards his brother, his parental neglect towards Eska and Desna, the obvious hunger for power, etc. Why make him so despicable even if you don't take into consideration that he wanted to become a God and rule over humanity for eternity? I think they wanted Unalaq to be multifaceted: his spirituality wasn't a bad thing, but his earthly faults emphasized he was the wrong person to be the Avatar. The Avatar is human and has faults, but is supposed to be above such petty squabbles and hunger for power. Part of Korra's journey that season was learning that while she was a member of the SWT and a member of her family she couldn't get involved in such things: the Avatar can't take sides or use armies (like she wanted with Iroh II) to intervene in squabbles. I also think we were supposed to compare Unalaq with Wan: one wished to fuse with Raava for selfless reasons, while the other wished to fuse with Vaatu for reasons that were entirely selfish. As for the neglect of Desna and Eska, I actually saw a parallel with Aang. Aang supposedly neglected Kya and Bumi in favor of Tenzin, but the takeaway from that storyline was that he genuinely loved all of his children and would have been horrified if he had harmed his kids. Compare that to Unalaq genuinely neglecting his children. Once again, it's a parallel between Unalaq and another Avatar. quote:I guess the main problem is that, with the kind of person he turned out to be at the end, it's hard to think that he was really sincere about anything back at the beginning of the season. Most notably, he said that darkness was a bad thing brought by lack of balance, but he then embraced darkness and its very embodiment. He was always about bringing more spirituality to the SWT (and the world), he was just less forthcoming about the full details of his plan in the beginning. I do think he wasn't entirely sincere about the darkness thing at the beginning, but was saying those things in order to get Korra on his side. He pretty much dropped that line after he realized she was against him for good. The artbook does go more into the bad blood between the two tribes, and the SWT's success is the main driver, but doesn't mention anything about the bolded part (thinking Unalaq was more interested in the economic stuff) at least from my quick scan. Either way, that's Unalaq taking a side and using politics to his own end, something the Avatar is not supposed to do. Interestingly, the book does mention his soldiers possibly beginning to question their leader once they see UnaVaatu, but that implies they followed him blindly from the beginning. quote:As for Eska and Desna, their relationship with their father was as poorly defined as Unalaq's ideals, so there is no way to know why they were loyal to him. Force of habit? I agree with this, though what I got was that Eska and Desna were like stereotypical homeschooled fundies. They believed in Unalaq because he was all they learned to believe in. They didn't turn until they had actual visible proof that Korra was right. Like I said, I don't think Unalaq's stuff was well done. I think they tried to stuff too much in. If the season were longer I think they would have been a lot more clear. Sato fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 00:48
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Pretty sure there's a fair amount of Art Deco going on in the architecture too, and remember that the whole first season was basically Roaring Twenties, a decidedly American cultural phenomenon. And also remember that Pagoda type things don't really show up on Asian skyscrapers.
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Nov 5, 2014 01:07
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As someone who lives in NYC, it's pretty heavily NYC. Heck if you overlaid a map of the two, you would see that they have very similar geographies. Heck there's a friggin' Statue of
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Nov 5, 2014 01:10
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Hauldren Collider posted:Pretty sure there's a fair amount of Art Deco going on in the architecture too, and remember that the whole first season was basically Roaring Twenties, a decidedly American cultural phenomenon. And also remember that Pagoda type things don't really show up on Asian skyscrapers. The Torii gates on the suspension bridge towers was my favorite touch.
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Nov 5, 2014 01:11
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Hauldren Collider posted:Pretty sure there's a fair amount of Art Deco going on in the architecture too, and remember that the whole first season was basically Roaring Twenties, a decidedly American cultural phenomenon. And also remember that Pagoda type things don't really show up on Asian skyscrapers. It's based on 1920s/30s Shanghai, which itself was very heavily Art Deco influenced
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Nov 5, 2014 01:17
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Alternatively, it's based on 1920s/1930s New York, which was many times the size of Shanghai at the time and also heavily Art Deco influenced. Geography's the other thing, it just looks like New York harbor. The Aang statue is obviously influenced by the Statue of Liberty as Rosalind says.
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Nov 5, 2014 01:42
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In the first episode they talk about people being "fresh off the boat". Did 1920s Shanghai have booming immigration?
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Nov 5, 2014 01:44
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Hauldren Collider posted:And also remember that Pagoda type things don't really show up on Asian skyscrapers. Yeah, but how else are they going to show they're Asian-inspired unless the skyscrapers actually break out into Asian languages in the show?  Not an architecture student but from what I can tell there's not much difference in skyscrapers from country to country. I don't blame them for wanting to have fun with the designs.Madurai posted:The Torii gates on the suspension bridge towers was my favorite touch. The Harmony Tower was basically an Asian Eiffel Tower. I loved it. Also liked the traditional screens instead of windows on the trolleys. ETA: I don't know why people are so insistent on Republic City being based on one specific city. The creators themselves said they took inspiration from many different cities and it's fun seeing how they merged different concepts together. Much more interesting than Republic City just being an Asian New York or Shanghai part II or something. 
Sato fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 01:46
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Sato posted:I went back to the first art book and it looks like we were all right--all four cities were listed as influences. Why is this still being argued about
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Nov 5, 2014 01:48
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Sato posted:Yeah, but how else are they going to show they're Asian-inspired unless the skyscrapers actually break out into Asian languages in the show? EDIT: Avatar Korra park also looks quite a bit like Central Park IMO. It's all basically there. Although maybe that's because all parks basically look the same. Hauldren Collider fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 01:50
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thexerox123 posted:Why is this still being argued about Because it's interesting.
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Nov 5, 2014 01:50
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Legend of Korra Book 4.44: Why is this (still) being argued about
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Nov 5, 2014 01:52
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thexerox123 posted:Why is this still being argued about Ha, should have waited to edit my post. Also, apparently the mountains around Republic City were based on the Canadian Rockies so we can probably add Vancouver to the list of influences. Rosalind posted:Legend of Korra Book 4.44: Why is this (still) being argued about Yeah, I'd vote for that.
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Nov 5, 2014 01:54
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Hauldren Collider posted:Yeah I agree, and I actually like the designs. I'm just pointing out that apart from the token Asian culture cameo stuff like pagoda skyscrapers and people eating rice and dumplings, the core of Republic City culture and setting is pretty obviously derived from New York/United States. And besides even in New York you find a ton of Asian influence. New York's got a huge chinatown for instance. Its odd though, because there is a lot of Westernized influences in Korra's Republic City (moreso than ATLA). And I know a lot of modern Asian cities are "Westernized", but in Korra there's no West so it just feels weird. Where did the suits and fedoras come from? How did the notion of a modern Republic get developed offscreen and between seasons? I guess it is what it is.
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Nov 5, 2014 02:14
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Hauldren Collider posted:Because it's interesting. Wrong.
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Nov 5, 2014 05:34
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Aisha posted:Its odd though, because there is a lot of Westernized influences in Korra's Republic City (moreso than ATLA). And I know a lot of modern Asian cities are "Westernized", but in Korra there's no West so it just feels weird. Where did the suits and fedoras come from? How did the notion of a modern Republic get developed offscreen and between seasons? I guess it is what it is. You're right, the final thing Korra needs to be a Real Anime is the pseudo-intellectual philosophical and political analysis
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Nov 5, 2014 06:18
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Would it make sense that "platinum" in the Avatar universe is what we would call aluminum?
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Nov 5, 2014 06:41
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Mraagvpeine posted:Would it make sense that "platinum" in the Avatar universe is what we would call aluminum? ...why would it? I mean, maybe it is, who knows, but what would lead you to think that might be the case?
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Nov 5, 2014 06:45
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Mraagvpeine posted:Would it make sense that "platinum" in the Avatar universe is what we would call aluminum? What they call blue is actually green to me. It's loving crazy but like, how different people experience things
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Nov 5, 2014 06:47
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Oracle posted:He also mentions that she weighs a lot more than she looks like she would and says something like she weighs 2.5 Zhu Li's which is... odd considering if the unit of measurement was named after her it'd be like, her weight. That was the one moment in the entire Avatar canon of genuine romantic development and I'm really proud of the writers for that. Every single other working relationship they've pushed on us has seemed really forced. Possible spoiler: 1:58 of the official trailer makes it seem like Zhu Li goes back to Varrick (and Korra's) side, but that could just be very tight editing of two different scenes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCEFMY4TWGw&t=118s dj_clawson fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 09:10
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Hauldren Collider posted:Yeah I agree, and I actually like the designs. I'm just pointing out that apart from the token Asian culture cameo stuff like pagoda skyscrapers and people eating rice and dumplings, the core of Republic City culture and setting is pretty obviously derived from New York/United States. And besides even in New York you find a ton of Asian influence. New York's got a huge chinatown for instance. The park is REALLY BLATANTLY central park. It's even got that one big ol' rock thing!
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Nov 5, 2014 09:14
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Sato posted:The creators have always cherrypicked aspects from different cultures: Republic City was a combination of Chicago and Shanghai, and Hiroshi Sato was based on Henry Ford. The Earth Kingdom is a mixture of Chinese and Korean influences rather than explicitly either nation (though there's admittedly more China in there). I don't necessarily think it has to be all or nothing in a fantasy setting, though I can definitely see why it might upset people and can definitely see where you're coming from. I definitely agree with you there that a work of fiction doesn't have to bring in all of reality, what more a children's show. It's just that as an Asian, I look forward to fiction that negotiate what it means to be Asian and it's kind of a let down For ATLA/ALOK to adopt an Asian aesthetic (yay!) and then flail around weirdly at the next step in "Asianness" (boo).
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Nov 5, 2014 14:23
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dj_clawson posted:Possible spoiler: 1:58 of the official trailer makes it seem like Zhu Li goes back to Varrick (and Korra's) side, but that could just be very tight editing of two different scenes.
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Nov 5, 2014 15:11
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dj_clawson posted:Possible spoiler: 1:58 of the official trailer makes it seem like Zhu Li goes back to Varrick (and Korra's) side, but that could just be very tight editing of two different scenes. That shot of Zhu Li is from the latest episode, during the mech fight.
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Nov 5, 2014 15:12
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Also that trailer makes it look like Korra goes back to her old outfit instead of picking up a sweet new Jedi Master outfit, what a shame
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Nov 5, 2014 16:25
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Jackard posted:Also that trailer makes it look like Korra goes back to her old outfit instead of picking up a sweet new Jedi Master outfit, what a shame Yeah, she does according to Bryan's tumblr and the NYCC panel. They actually based Korra's boots in that ensemble on an actual pair you can buy for fairly cheap on Amazon and they sold out right after Bryan posted the link. Flat Banana posted:I definitely agree with you there that a work of fiction doesn't have to bring in all of reality, what more a children's show. It's just that as an Asian, I look forward to fiction that negotiate what it means to be Asian and it's kind of a let down For ATLA/ALOK to adopt an Asian aesthetic (yay!) and then flail around weirdly at the next step in "Asianness" (boo). Yeah, I can see your frustration there. I don't necessarily feel authoritative or comfortable commenting in depth as I'm not Asian myself, but I think you made a good argument as to why we need more shows created by Asians and other minorities. Bryke have brought traditional Asian philosophies and beliefs (Buddhism, Taoism) to an audience that is not normally exposed to this sort of content, but as two white guys they aren't exactly the best qualified to meditate in depth on the nature of "Asianness," as you put it, so they haven't really tried. TBH I'm not sure how they'd fit it in to the show they ended up creating without it being really jarring--the characters are who they are, and while we've seen characters struggle with their culture and heritage (Aang, Katara, their kids, Sokka, Zuko) it's been within the context of the show really. I do agree there's probably an academic paper there. Sato fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 17:01
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Personally I like my cartoon for children to have an acceptable amount of hitler
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Nov 5, 2014 19:57
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Lessail posted:Personally I like my cartoon for children to have an acceptable amount of hitler I think a good target to shoot for is between 0.3 and 0.7 Hitlers. <0.2 Hitlers and it's just too PC for my tastes, while >0.8 and you're trying too hard.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:03
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Sydin posted:I think a good target to shoot for is between 0.3 and 0.7 Hitlers. <0.2 Hitlers and it's just too PC for my tastes, while >0.8 and you're trying too hard. Where does Captain Planet Hitler fall on this scale? 
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Nov 5, 2014 20:06
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Depicting Hitler in cartoons is an American tradition.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:10
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