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Here's the current setup for visual reference. Let me know if any amendments need to be made.
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# ? Nov 6, 2014 23:40 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 06:18 |
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What's the role of the artillery at 102? Is it there to cover a possible retreat?
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# ? Nov 6, 2014 23:47 |
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Tevery Best posted:Would they be unable to do that if the cavalry were at 66? I think it actually makes it harder for them, since we're a bit further away and the roads don't facilitate it as much. With just the lone artillery on the approach, 102-103 can only be taken by elite units.
If we detach a single 2N to 102 for counterattack support (which I plan to, from St. Hilaire), then we can also stop a Heavy Cav or Guard Infantry attack. This makes 102-103 functionally impassable (or passable only with heavy commitment and French negligence), and functionally extends the Fasangarten-Kobelnitz impasse another area north. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Nov 7, 2014 |
# ? Nov 6, 2014 23:50 |
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Then, with the center held by terrain, St. Hilaire can move to a defensive position in Puntowitz (82), creating an iron-hard center with St. Hilaire, Vandamme, and Lannes all mutually supporting one another in good terrain (narrow approaches, approach penalties, and obstructions). By drawing our center north of the impasse, we ensure that the Allies can't have their own center support their southern push. They'll have to commit north or south. If they commit north, they're setting in for a long slog against a solid French defense, and we might pull a French defensive victory. If they commit south, they'll expose their center. We can call in Bernadotte and Davout to hold the line and crash into Prazte Burg with our own center, bringing our Guard Infantry to bear, and win a historical victory just like Napoleon himself did.
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 00:03 |
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Ooof. I just spotted a huge potential weakness. If St. Hilaire retreats to 82, then 93 opens up, and 92 becomes wide open. Crap. Need to think about this one.
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 00:42 |
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Okay. St Hilaire (Center): 3GN, 3N, 2N, 2C, A, A*(102 @103-Approach) Vandamme (Center): 3N, 3N, 3C Lannes (Switch): 3GN, 2N, 2N, A*(Santon), 2C*(55), 2C*(43) Davout (Switch-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N Legrand (South): 3N, 3N, 2N, 2C*(135), 2C*(119) Bernadotte (South-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N Bessiers (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C Murat (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C --- New plan. Legrand's artillery has been moved to St. Hilaire. It wasn't doing him that much good anyway. Also switched out his 2Ns for a 3N and a 2C. First french turn, an Independent Action will move the artillery from Hilaire to 92. Then, Hilaire will corps move to Puntowitz, leaving the 2C behind. If and when 93 is attacked, the 2C will auto retreat, heading back to join the 102 artillery as its counterattack-support. This will slow the approach and give the artillery time to block 92-93. The 3N will defend 82-93, since that side is largely unsupported. (That unit was hanging out with Lannes, who will have no unsupported approaches.)
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 00:59 |
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I'm not quite clear how Legrand is going to defend the path through Telnitz. Is the idea to delay with the cavalry and call in the reinforcements to prevent a breakthrough?
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 01:35 |
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frankenfreak posted:I'm not quite clear how Legrand is going to defend the path through Telnitz. Is the idea to delay with the cavalry and call in the reinforcements to prevent a breakthrough? If the Allies go hard around Telnitz, Legrand should abandon Sokolnitz, move into 132 and entrench. The cavalry screen will progressively fall back to 117, delaying progress, before finally entrenching in 117. If the Allies extend south hard enough to break through, or try to go around The-Lake-Whose-Name-I-Can't-Read, then yes, we call in the reinforcements to back them up and pin the enemy, then hit the weakened center. We also have one other option: If the Allies go super hard and steamroll south (dropping the north to cover the center), we can send Lannes and Murat forward to capture a star. If we don't call reinforcements, we can win the game by holding a single star, regardless of what the Allies do in our backfield.
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 02:26 |
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Here are the opening moves I think we need to make, since the early positioning is key to our strategy. (I promise to be less dictatorial from 8pm on.) Opening Moves:
And a few salient points:
One more thing: I'm changing the Corps assignments as follows. Gutter Owl: St. Hilaire and Davout Frankenfreak: Lannes and Vandamme Tevery Best: Legrande and Bernadotte Fat Turkey?: Murat and Bessiers Why? Because this lets me immediately signal the switch from defense to offense by calling in the reinforcements, without suffering the one-turn delay on orders. On the turn I call in Davout, wherever he shows up, we go for blood. This means Tevery should call in Bernadotte, and Frankenfreak should join me in bringing hell to the weak point of the line. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Nov 8, 2014 |
# ? Nov 7, 2014 06:56 |
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That said: Correct me if I'm wrong, Tekopo, but it seems like a 3v4 game would be more balanced than a 4v4 game? Right now, we're splitting the tiny French pie a lot of ways with six corps in four hands. The Allies are going to have a huge cohesion advantage over us, since each Allied brain is in command of 2-3 corps and will have more options for combined arms. Maybe this is offset by the French defensive advantage? I'm speaking out of absolutely zero experience here. (Not to throw Fat Turkey under the bus or anything. I'm just feeling my control-freakishness itching at me.) gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Nov 7, 2014 |
# ? Nov 7, 2014 07:02 |
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The allies have only 5 corps command: it means that potentially you can have the person at the bottom of their chain of command not get any commands at all. Also, I've done something else regarding the Allied command and control
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 08:37 |
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Gutter Owl posted:Southern flank talk
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 10:02 |
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Do you still need a 4th?
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 11:57 |
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I think they do, Fat Turkey!Gutter Owl posted:Okay.
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 12:11 |
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Confirm as follows. (The makeup of the corps is as quoted. This just reflects the change in who-controls-what.) St Hilaire (Center): 3GN, 3N, 2N, 2C, A, A*(102 @103-Approach) Davout (Switch-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N Vandamme (Center): 3N, 3N, 3C Lannes (Switch): 3GN, 2N, 2N, A*(Santon), 2C*(55), 2C*(43) Legrand (South): 3N, 3N, 2N, 2C*(135), 2C*(119) Bernadotte (South-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N Bessiers (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C Murat (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 7, 2014 |
# ? Nov 7, 2014 16:20 |
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OK, talk to me about the practicalities of the thing. What should we aim to achieve? What's the difference between a bad manoeuvre and a good one? In combat, which units should I post as leading and what should I keep in mind while making the decisions?
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 18:09 |
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Final visual check, please let me know if anything is wrong, otherwise we'll start the game proper!
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# ? Nov 7, 2014 20:47 |
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Setup is confirmed. That said, I'd like one more evening to get my new generals up to speed on strategy before we go into super-limited communication. Y'know, since they haven't been staring at this for weeks like Frankenfreak and I. (I'd do it now, but I'm at work for another four hours.)
gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 7, 2014 |
# ? Nov 7, 2014 22:04 |
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Okay, I don't have the brainpower after work to do an exhaustive writeup on tactical advice. So for now I'm going to link these two documents I grabbed from BGG when I was trying to get my brain around the strategy. Napoleon's Triumph: Your Tools Unit Breakdown Chart Note that our strategy diverges from the "Your Tools" document on the subject of Heavy Cavalry. I've gone ahead and distributed them throughout the center as counterattack units, to be left in reserves behind infantry blocks. If you have one, use it as needed to hold the line, especially in the shadow of the Santon. I'm just completely writing off the 2-morale loss. We'll live. Also, here is a sample game to study. Note that the French player here is going for a vastly different endgame strategy than us. (He sets up for a no-reserve territory victory by pushing the left and holding one enemy star. We're set up for a historical morale victory by luring and demolishing the center.) But it gives an idea of the movement concerns and positioning. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Nov 8, 2014 |
# ? Nov 8, 2014 01:42 |
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One final thing before I show your dispositions to the allies: what is the fixed battery (this needs to be put face up).
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 13:28 |
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Just posting to assure you I am reading this and also how to play, but letting my generals sort out the big plan and telling me what to do. I'll post up any further questions tonight (I'm basically spending this afternoon getting to grips with the map and our plans as I get how attacks work and all (I think!). So yeah, I've not gone anywhere. So I'm in charge of Bessiers. Edit: Your links are invalid. Do I have to sign up to BGG to see them? Fat Turkey fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Nov 8, 2014 |
# ? Nov 8, 2014 14:08 |
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Trying to figure my strategic role in this merry go round "Murat: Corps Move to 63-64 approach, leave 3C in reserve Bessiers: Corps Move all via road to 26. (Road juncture here gives you choice of 41 or 29 next turn.)" When you say move to the approach, do you man block the 63/64 approach, with the Cavalry to float in the middle? Does this require the calvary to detach from the main group? Bessieres will all sit in reserve in 26. I'm thinking move them to 29 and try and hold them there. Trying to work out the best defensive formation for the troops. Fat Turkey fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Nov 8, 2014 |
# ? Nov 8, 2014 19:26 |
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Links should be fixed.
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 19:26 |
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Is the fixed battery the santon or the one in the center?
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 19:32 |
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Fat Turkey posted:Murat: Corps Move to 63-64 approach, leave 3C in reserve Actually, change of plans. Do not leave the cavalry in reserve for Murat. I misunderstood something in the counterattack rules, and you'll probably want to have your cav as a counterattack option. But yes, do move to block the approach. (To answer the question though, leaving the cavalry in reserve would require detaching them, which you can do for free as part of a corps move. Doing so would leave the cavalry free to retreat in case things went sour, or leave them to quickly reinforce another position. Vandamme will still likely want to do this.) That said: If Vandamme gets into trouble (say, Milardovich and Prebyshevsky both converge on 84 and 73 with Kollowrath coming behind), I want Bessiers to shed his heavy cavalry and send it down to reinforce Vandamme's position, so that Vandamme can put a heavy cav on both of his approaches. Remember, cav can end a road move by blocking an approach. Do this if needed. Fat Turkey posted:Bessieres will all sit in reserve in 26. I'm thinking move them to 29 and try and hold them there. Trying to work out the best defensive formation for the troops. Looking at the north, 41 is actually the more viable defensive point with just one narrow approach. Particularly if you use the fleeing cavalry screen at 43 to block 14 and prevent a flanking maneuver through the forests. Tekopo posted:One final thing before I show your dispositions to the allies: what is the fixed battery (this needs to be put face up).
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 20:00 |
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Hmmm, I still need to be registered with BGG to get the files. That's not a biggie. Cavalry can move across to the approach of 63/64 with the rest. I'll keep an eye on Vandamme and can replace his cavalary with mine if it all goes sud. If I'm making a beeline for 41 that will take two turns, why take the double step to 26 and then to 41, when I can just 40 and then to 41? Both would take two turns. NOT QUESTIONING ORDERS SIR NO SIR. I guess the 26 was used as it gave us the option to double step to 29, but if we're holding up in 41 anyway, I guess it doesn't matter which we do. I'm fine being the more passive person for the time being as I learn from your positions and movement. Not as many Youtube tutorials as I had hoped. Your BGG resources should help.
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 20:11 |
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Fat Turkey posted:If I'm making a beeline for 41 that will take two turns, why take the double step to 26 and then to 41, when I can just 40 and then to 41? Both would take two turns. It takes the same amount of movement to 41 either way. But if we look like we're pushing to 29, we might make the allies think we're looking to push the north side to grab a star. Fat Turkey posted:Cavalry can move across to the approach of 63/64 with the rest. I'll keep an eye on Vandamme and can replace his cavalary with mine if it all goes sud. "Move across" is kinda weird, and I just want to make sure: You're staying in 63 and just blocking the approach that borders 64. We want 64 to be empty, because we want the allies to blunder into the shadow of the Santon and get hosed by artillery.
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 20:20 |
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Alright, the deployment has been made public. You have the weekend to finish conferring before I start enforcing communication rules!
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 20:20 |
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Gutter Owl posted:It takes the same amount of movement to 41 either way. But if we look like we're pushing to 29, we might make the allies think we're looking to push the north side to grab a star. Ah of course, the power of deception, or at least to keep them guessing. quote:"Move across" is kinda weird, and I just want to make sure: You're staying in 63 and just blocking the approach that borders 64. We want 64 to be empty, because we want the allies to blunder into the shadow of the Santon and get hosed by artillery. That's as I understood it, but having the reasoning is good. Under what circumstances would I break from these defensive positions? It sounds like you want to wait and let them come to us.
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 20:47 |
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Fat Turkey posted:Under what circumstances would I break from these defensive positions? It sounds like you want to wait and let them come to us. Yep. The combat mechanics in NT favor the defender (except when artillery is involved), so we want the allies to exhaust themselves against us, or try for a southern flank. (Sorry Tevery, you're the weak flank.) With the cavalry screens slowing down the advance, the Allies are going to feel time pressing on them--they only have ten turns to take and secure a blue star. Remember, they not only need to hold the objective itself with a corps, they need to be able to trace a path by road to one of their two main road entry points, without passing through one of our units. So if they take 117, we can deny it by cutting off 131 and 132 and holding the northern line. (As a note: If the Allies every hold a blue star, it is everyone's immediate responsibility to check the roads, and cut off any that you can. So if 117 falls, Fat Turkey needs to make sure the Allies can't draw a complicated line up through 29, for example.) If the allies push hard, they're gonna leave flanks or weak zones. These will mostly be for Lannes, Vandamme, and St Hilaire to deal with using their Guard and Heavy Cav. So, when should you move from the defensive wall? Here's a breakdown. 1) The most obvious: you should retreat and reform the wall when an attack on your position looks like it will cause debilitating casualties. (If you think you're going to be forced back like this, make sure to fall back from the approach, so your cavalry is safe from taking a retreat loss. This is a judgement call, of course. That said, make sure that your fallback does not expose the flank of an allied position, unless you can follow up with an immediate, guaranteed counter-attack. For example, if Murat falls back from 63 to 62, this leaves Vandamme extremely vulnerable to a hit across an undefended approach, with no defenders in reserve...but it could be permissible for Murat to fall back if Murat still has his heavy cav at full strength, and can retake 63 on the following turn with a cavalry charge. 2) Once Davout and Bernadotte take the field, go on the attack. Granted, for the North, you're still going to be in the business of protecting our blue stars from a northern flank. But this is when we're going for blood and morale, so take any blood you think you can reliably draw. And once we have them on the ropes for morale, do anything necessary to push them over the line. 3) The last case is, if the north weakens to protect the center from our counterattack, I might order Bessiers to the attack, to take the star in 67 outside Holubitz. (Remember that name.) That said, DO NOT do this attack unless and until I order it, because it will require us to shift our entire battlefield strategy. That's the corps strat in a nutshell. That said, your position on the map means you're going to have some detachments under your command more often than not. So: The Santon - This one is simple. If the Santon can attack, the Santon should attack. Always and forever, accept no substitutions. Everyone else: If enemies are in 41, 42, or 64, remember to leave an independent action for Fat Turkey to fire the Santon, unless it's a matter of life or death. The Cavalry Screens - In the first part of the game, these are here to gum up the roads. The general strategy: Sit on the location. Wait for the enemy to attack. Take a pre-combat retreat to fall back one space. Lather rinse repeat. Once the enemy flanks engage with our flanks, it's time for phase two. In the south, the cavalry moves back to become the defense for 117. Meanwhile the northern cavalry should be harriers and flank-harassers. Try to move them into positions where, if a unit pushes forward, you can attack with the cavalry to punish. That said, these guys have some versatility, and can start moving to where they're needed most.
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 22:28 |
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So, what should my plan be? Just hold the line and retreat the cavalry as necessary? Is there anything I should do to reform my position, or is it good enough as is for now? This is roughly what I'm thinking will, tell me if it makes any sens: Option A: Allies only attack my position with Kienmayer. That means they can either go right at me through 135 and 119 (this would take at least two turns), which would be a major blunder, as they'd just bleed themselves dry. They may also attempt to go around me, either through Das Schloss to 132 or through 131 to 117. In the first case, I just fall back to 132 and then we'll see what happens. If they go through 131, should I attempt to intercept them? With cavalry feints, I should have an advantage if I can catch them in the open. Option B: Allies go at me with Kienmayer and Dokhtorov. That rules out any attempts at attacking until (if) we bring Bernadotte out, so once they get to 131 or 134, I fall back to 132. Once there, feint with the cavalry to eat up their activations if they want to attack in full force, detach forces to approaches, prepare for the last stand. Option C: Kienmayer and Dokhtorov also bring out Langeron. Goes like Option B, except that the last stand comes sooner and pretty much means it's merde time. Am I getting this correctly?
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# ? Nov 8, 2014 23:42 |
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Tevery Best posted:So, what should my plan be? Just hold the line and retreat the cavalry as necessary? Is there anything I should do to reform my position, or is it good enough as is for now? Sounds good, except I'd probably relocate to to 132 in option B/C once the allies commit forces to 119-141-142. Current: Allies move to 131/134. You move to 132. Allies attack 132 while you're in reserves. Revised: Allies move to 119/141/142. You move to 132. Allies move to 131/134. You block the offending approaches. Allies attack. This is especially true of the 132/134 approach (and the 132/133 approach for that matter), where blocking the approach gives a -1 to all attack types, rather than just infantry. Of course, if the allies go hard for 131 and don't bear on 134, the counterattack potential of staying all in reserves at 132 might be better than the -1 to infantry from the blocked approach. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Nov 9, 2014 |
# ? Nov 8, 2014 23:57 |
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OK, we'll see how it develops, then. Gotta say that I'd say that having both Dokhtorov and Kienmayer push for me early seems like the most likely solution (although I may be biased).
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# ? Nov 9, 2014 00:07 |
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Well, good. That's what we want them to do.
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# ? Nov 9, 2014 00:10 |
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Don't forget they only get 5 corps moves each turn, so don't be deceived by their numbers on the map - they can't bring them to bear all at once! A every corps move they make on one flank, is one less on another.
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# ? Nov 9, 2014 00:15 |
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Gutter Owl posted:Well, good. That's what we want them to do. I know. Don't tell the men, though.
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# ? Nov 9, 2014 00:25 |
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COMMUNICATION RULES ARE IN EFFECT Time: 7:00 am, Allied Turn Action Queue: -- French Team: Await for the Allied hordes to act Tekopo fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Nov 10, 2014 |
# ? Nov 10, 2014 14:18 |
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Oh, by the way, this is the Allied Chain of Command (as per rules, it is revealed, added to OP as well): Commander in Chief: silvergoose (Corps: Bagration Constantine) 2nd in Command: Aston (Corps: Kienmeyer Liechtenstein Kollowrath) 3rd in Command: Morholt (Corps: Miloradovich Prebyshevsky) 4th in Command: Davin Valkri (Corps: Dokhtorov Langeron)
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# ? Nov 10, 2014 14:57 |
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Allied Movements: silvergoose:
Updates to map will be done when I can.
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# ? Nov 10, 2014 15:00 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 06:18 |
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Gutter Owl, once the Allies have finished moving, can you please send me a PM with your orders? Since they arrive one turn late, I will need to keep them and then send them out in the next turn.
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# ? Nov 10, 2014 18:59 |