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Nintendo Kid posted:No we are not. This is manifestly untrue. Anecdotal, but I know somebody who is about to accept a university level teaching position. She has explicitly stated she intends to push a MRA position, and has pointed to "discussions" like this as a reason why. A small account, but one that worries me about larger repercussions.
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Nov 15, 2014 22:55
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The IronMonkey posted:Not to interrupt the little 2 minute hate session ya'll got going here, but I know some women who are involved in the pro(anti?) gamer gate side. If making pro videos count as involved. When ever this topic, or feminism in general comes up they point to majority white/male discussions like this as a reason they are against what they think feminism is. A bunch of holier than though college liberals going off against a strawman opposition, and implying women can't think for themselves. This then is the impression folk get of what feminism is, So, it's bad to make fun of idiots because some of those idiots are idiots? Not sure what your point is here, except you're mad at the prevailing tone ITT. The IronMonkey posted:Anecdotal, but I know somebody who is about to accept a university level teaching position. She has explicitly stated she intends to push a MRA position, and has pointed to "discussions" like this as a reason why. A small account, but one that worries me about larger repercussions. Even if this wasn't a dumb reaction, why do you think we should care what one person who bases their gender politics on their perception of internet discussions? This person will not last long in academia. "I have to counteract the Tumblrites by supporting MRA in a freshman survey class nobody cares about" is not a mature argument or one worth considering.
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Nov 15, 2014 22:56
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"My friend Cletus is going to join the KKK and spraypaint a synagogue to counteract the prevailingly hysterical pro-Minority opinions you see on tumblr all the time. All of you should feel ashamed for forcing his hand in this way."
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Nov 15, 2014 23:02
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Popular Thug Drink posted:So, it's bad to make fun of idiots because some of those idiots are idiots? Popular Thug Drink posted:Even if this wasn't a dumb reaction, why do you think we should care what one person who bases their gender politics on their perception of internet discussions? This person will not last long in academia.
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Nov 15, 2014 23:02
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The IronMonkey posted:You know the point is that calling your opponents unthinking idiots and never engaging hurts your side. So it's ironic you would respond by pretending not to get it and just calling them idiots. I am sorry that you are mad we are calling greasy nerds virgin losers ITT but I really doubt that the opinions contained within this thread will poison popular discourse any more than it already is. Conversely, if the generally greasy loser population of Something Awful is digging on your sad rear end, you probably come off ten times worse to polite society. The IronMonkey posted:We don't care about people being accepted into and pushing bad ideas in academia? Folk with bad ideas seem to last rather long at the university level going by some of the articles posted to D&D. We don't care about one apocryphal person who makes bad decisions, who you seem to think we share tangential blame for.
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Nov 15, 2014 23:04
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The IronMonkey posted:Anecdotal, but I know somebody who is about to accept a university level teaching position. She has explicitly stated she intends to push a MRA position, and has pointed to "discussions" like this as a reason why. A small account, but one that worries me about larger repercussions. This person lacks the maturity to survive within the academy. You can't push an agenda in a place where you're held to a standard that requires self-critical analysis of evidence and where you are beholden to teach this method to students. The repercussions will be that the brightest students in class call her on her poo poo and the rest just keep texting or browsing reddit on their phones.
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Nov 15, 2014 23:05
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The IronMonkey posted:Anecdotal, but I know somebody who is about to accept a university level teaching position. She has explicitly stated she intends to push a MRA position, and has pointed to "discussions" like this as a reason why. A small account, but one that worries me about larger repercussions. You know someone who is an awful human being and is not going to stop being so because we stop making of awful human beings. I'm sorry she hates her self so much but it sure isn't my fault she takes Phyllis Schlafly as a positive role model.
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Nov 15, 2014 23:05
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Jack Gladney posted:This person lacks the maturity to survive within the academy. You can't push an agenda in a place where you're held to a standard that requires self-critical analysis of evidence and where you are beholden to teach this method to students. The repercussions will be that the brightest students in class call her on her poo poo and the rest just keep texting or browsing reddit on their phones. Why couldn't she survive? Depending on the field you can absolutely do that. It sucks, but bad professors abound regardless, since almost all of them studied their fields and not pedagogy. Maybe your experience is with elite schools chiefly? e: When I say "regardless" I mean both "regardless of politics" and "regardless of capability." Tacky-Ass Rococco fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Nov 15, 2014 |
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Nov 15, 2014 23:41
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Jack of Hearts posted:Why couldn't she survive? Depending on the field you can absolutely do that. It sucks, but bad professors abound regardless, since almost all of them studied their fields and not pedagogy. Maybe your experience is with elite schools chiefly? I'm assuming this person is a grad student getting her first teaching position. There's going to be oversight and student evaluation. If she starts parroting MRA idiocy, the students will recognize it immediately and call it out, and senior observers will see that she's not rigorous enough to teach. Eccentrics who stick around have usually mastered their discipline and say kooky poo poo while editorializing, because they at least understand the boundary between what they believe and what they're paid to do. I also think it's rare that the kooks have weird or wrong beliefs about their area of expertise, because they have to master the field and its methods in order to advance. What grown-up is even going to entertain reading a dissertation or article about feminism's failure to feed the American male nerd's sense of entitlement to sex?
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Nov 16, 2014 00:05
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Jack Gladney posted:I'm assuming this person is a grad student getting her first teaching position. There's going to be oversight and student evaluation. If she starts parroting MRA idiocy, the students will recognize it immediately and call it out, and senior observers will see that she's not rigorous enough to teach. This is a very peculiar version of the just world fallacy. They're undergrads; MRA 'idiocy' (it is idiocy) is often not immediately recognizable as such. Undergrads like Ayn Rand. And I've been a student in classes taught by terrible ideologues. Most students don't participate regardless; if you're smart and they teach a requirement for your major, you swallow your tongue and move along; if you're smart and it's your major, what's the incentive for combativeness?
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Nov 16, 2014 00:34
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Getting back to "nerds are loving awful" it really can't be said enough. The 'persecution' in real life is almost 100% that they can't get a girlfriend because they're gross weirdos. However their own conception of what's happening is that other people hate them because they realize they're smarter and better in every way than those other people. What's worse, in my opinion this attitude is baked into nerd culture/media to a fundamental level. The idea that "I'm smarter/better than normal people because I like X thing" is essentially the core belief that underpins the subculture. You can see it in nerd media pretty much wherever you look, take Ender's Game for instance. Ender's Game is about a borderline autistic supergenius who's bullied because he's better than everyone else and ends up killing multiple people and comitting genocide but it's not his fault, he was forced to do it by people who hate him because he's smarter than them. It's pretty much 100% reader stand in gratification, and Ender is portrayed as almoat a Messiah figure. This is one of the classics of scifi. Basically nerd culture is 100% awful. There is almost nothing positive about it. It's a machine that churns out 4chan posters full of seething hatred towards anyone slightly different from themselves. It's not just the people here that are the problem, it's the culture and the corpus of media themselves icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 00:36
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N-no, by criticizing them you've literally created more of them
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Nov 16, 2014 01:11
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icantfindaname posted:Getting back to "nerds are loving awful" it really can't be said enough. The 'persecution' in real life is almost 100% that they can't get a girlfriend because they're gross weirdos. However their own conception of what's happening is that other people hate them because they realize they're smarter and better in every way than those other people. Hey there, Something Awful. Does the goon on the go not have the time to read long threads in our fast-paced modern lifestyle? Well, good news! Now you can experience and understand five pages of D&D posting in just four seconds! kapparomeo fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 01:14
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SedanChair posted:N-no, by criticizing them you've literally created more of them By refusing to refute them in favor of literal NNNEEEEERRRRDDDSSS rage you push bystanders the wrong way and alienate many of the people you think you're defending. None of this poo poo would have any legs to stand on if any kind of actual criticism was used. Instead you have incredibly enthusiastic and mis-directed "not your shield" reactions going on. This is the same it has been for any argument. Goddamnit Liberal Gestalt stop giving fuel and encouragement to the next generation of right wingers just so you can boost your non-existent e-cred. The IronMonkey fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 01:19
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The IronMonkey posted:By refusing to refute them in favor of literal NNNEEEEERRRRDDDSSS rage you push bystanders the wrong way and alienate many of the people you think you're defending. None of this poo poo would have any legs to stand on if any kind of actual criticism was used. Instead you have incredibly enthusiastic and mis-directed "not your shield" reactions going on. Anybody who uses not facts, but whether or not they feel hurt or insulted to make decisions is worthless.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:29
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Normal people stop and think when being criticized or when encountering new arguments. Nerds are and always have been tribalist reactionaries. They are the future of the Republican Party, which is why Breitbart ran that dumb temper tantrum of an editorial announcing that the author was going to strike back at the world that insulted him by burning it to the ground unless everyone apologies to him real nice. You can't reason with that under any circumstance.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:39
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It's not always about convincing the people you are arguing directly with, so much as the bystanders listening in. This is the way any number of debates function, nobody thinks they are going to convince the true believers, but they might swing some of the audience. I disagree with your stereotype of "nerds" as reactionaries, both historically and because that's contrary to one of the major points of the pro-feminist side of the argument. Quite frankly it's also pretty generous to "normal people" being confronted with something contrary to existing beliefs.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:45
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quote:Anybody who uses not facts, but whether or not they feel hurt or insulted to make decisions is worthless. If you really think that SedanChair then you ought to toxx yourself. After all, this entire thread is 93 pages of nothing more substantial than goons inviting D&D to share in their outrage because they got a chain e-mail or a local rag printed a thing in the letters column that rustles their jimmies. Are you also suggesting that we shouldn't be troubled about the objectification of women, now? Just words and pictures, what does it matter if they feel "hurt or insulted"? kapparomeo fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 01:50
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The "NERDS!" attitude is silly. Pretty much everyone posting on SA qualifies as a nerd.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:54
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kapparomeo posted:If you really think that SedanChair then you ought to toxx yourself. After all, this entire thread is 93 pages of nothing more substantial than goons inviting D&D to share in their outrage because they got a chain e-mail or a local rag printed a thing in the letters column that rustles their jimmies. Maybe you should defend your reactionary opinions instead of just going LOL HIVE MIND?
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Nov 16, 2014 03:09
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Silver2195 posted:The "NERDS!" attitude is silly. Pretty much everyone posting on SA qualifies as a nerd. I invite you to go read the Hacker News thread in YOSPOS. I think you'll reconsider This is actually thread relevant more or less, so here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8601727 Eric S Raymond posted:Nor is it any good thing that “youths” now behave as though they think they’re operating with a kind of immunity. We saw this in Ferguson, when Michael Brown apparently believed he could could beat up a Pakistani shopkeeper and then assault a cop without fearing consequences. (“What are you going to do, shoot me?” he sneered, just before he was shot) As he found out, eventually that poo poo’ll get you killed; it would have been much better for everybody if he hadn’t been encouraged to believe that his skin color gave him a free pass That's one of the most influential and wealthy Open Source tech people in the industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond  Here's another choice quote from someone else https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8557958 quote:thesz 17 hours ago | link [flagkilled] icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 03:11
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icantfindaname posted:That's one of the most influential and wealthy Open Source tech people in the industry Wealthy sure, but is he really still influential? I honestly thought ESR faded into irrelevance years ago.
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Nov 16, 2014 03:17
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Idran posted:Wealthy sure, but is he really still influential? I honestly thought ESR faded into irrelevance years ago. There's no meaningful difference between him and any of the new generation of captains of tech capitalism, except that the new generation might be worse. Point is these people are legitimately awful
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Nov 16, 2014 03:22
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icantfindaname posted:Getting back to "nerds are loving awful" it really can't be said enough. The 'persecution' in real life is almost 100% that they can't get a girlfriend because they're gross weirdos. However their own conception of what's happening is that other people hate them because they realize they're smarter and better in every way than those other people. 
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Nov 16, 2014 03:26
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I'm the subtle homophobia See, just loving awful. It's poo poo all the way down
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Nov 16, 2014 03:34
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icantfindaname posted:There's no meaningful difference between him and any of the new generation of captains of tech capitalism, except that the new generation might be worse. Point is these people are legitimately awful Oh yeah, definitely. I just wasn't sure if ESR had had some kind of resurgence recently that I'd missed or not.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:42
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Seriously though guys you need to take seriously the possibility that women requiring potential mates to care about their needs and interests and not view them as walking sex bots is mass oppression on the level of racism. Otherwise you might turn people off, you see.
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Nov 16, 2014 05:50
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kapparomeo posted:If you really think that SedanChair then you ought to toxx yourself. Toxx myself for what? quote:After all, this entire thread is 93 pages of nothing more substantial than goons inviting D&D to share in their outrage because they got a chain e-mail or a local rag printed a thing in the letters column that rustles their jimmies. You're not comprehending fundamental things here. Outrage in and of itself is, yes, worthless. The question is, are you justified in having that outrage? Are Minutemen justified in their outrage that once in a while, a Guatemalan national hikes across a rancher's back forty? No, they're xenophobes. Is David Brooks justified in wringing his hands because teenagers smoke weed? No, he's a scold with a tight rear end in a top hat. Are plump, boyish grown men who have selected as their primary unifying political characteristic the toys they play with justified in feeling "under attack" for pointing out that they spend all their waking ours making e-women moan and jiggle? They can gently caress off. Meanwhile, sexism and racism exist. Real things, that get real people killed and raped. That's what outrage is for, not pretend issues.
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Nov 16, 2014 06:51
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Also pretty sure that misogyny is a problem for reasons pretty far beyond hurt feelings.
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Nov 16, 2014 07:46
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Jack Gladney posted:Also pretty sure that misogyny is a problem for reasons pretty far beyond hurt feelings. This is the post that converted me into a misogynist. I hope you reconsider your dangerous and snarky ways.
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Nov 16, 2014 07:50
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The day I won the seventh grade geography bee I though I had it all. But on the bus home Jennie still wouldn't let me sit next to her. She only had eyes for that loser jerk Brad. That was the day I knew that it was my calling to be the most ardent guardian of ethics in games journalism that the world had ever known.
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Nov 16, 2014 08:29
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quote:Normal people stop and think when being criticized or when encountering new arguments. Nerds are and always have been tribalist reactionaries. They are the future of the Republican Party, which is why Breitbart ran that dumb temper tantrum of an editorial announcing that the author was going to strike back at the world that insulted him by burning it to the ground unless everyone apologies to him real nice. On the topic of tribalist reactionaries: Left-wing politics is actively harmful to women and has been for decades. Nerds aren't a problem - as you say, they can't get laid in the first place and those pimply four-eyed pointdexters can only get it up to Xena Warrior Princess cosplay, lol amirite bro? It takes the toxic environment of a bunch of Revolutionary Comrades to subject women to appalling physical abuse and then actively suppress justice. I wonder how many other incidents of rape and sexual assault have gone unreported for the sake of progressive solidarity and not conforming to bourgeois courts. #NotAllSocialists, of course. kapparomeo fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 12:37
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kapparomeo posted:On the topic of tribalist reactionaries: Left-wing politics is actively harmful to women and has been for decades. Nerds aren't a problem - as you say, they can't get laid in the first place and those pimply four-eyed pointdexters can only get it up to Xena Warrior Princess cosplay, lol amirite bro? It takes the toxic environment of a bunch of Revolutionary Comrades to subject women to appalling physical abuse and then actively suppress justice. I wonder how many other incidents of rape and sexual assault have gone unreported for the sake of progressive solidarity and not conforming to bourgeois courts. It also sounds like you're describing different problems, too. The appetites of great men are the same regardless of political leanings, and are one of the many reasons constraining them is a huge positive. Plus in these cases you're talking about the masses and society destroying and marginalizing the institution for covering up rapes, a goo thing in anyone's book. I'm also unsure how left an organization can be that has anti-muslim New Atheist trash like Hitchens as a member. These stories have more in common with the Catholic Church scandal than this nerd stuff-- in the latter case institutions are coming down against the basement dwellers, not protecting them.
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Nov 16, 2014 13:10
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kapparomeo posted:On the topic of tribalist reactionaries: Left-wing politics is actively harmful to women and has been for decades. Nerds aren't a problem - as you say, they can't get laid in the first place and those pimply four-eyed pointdexters can only get it up to Xena Warrior Princess cosplay, lol amirite bro? It takes the toxic environment of a bunch of Revolutionary Comrades to subject women to appalling physical abuse and then actively suppress justice. I wonder how many other incidents of rape and sexual assault have gone unreported for the sake of progressive solidarity and not conforming to bourgeois courts. The sort of environment that suppresses rape accusations isn't unique to left-wing politics.
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Nov 16, 2014 15:17
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Some left wing people are bad people therefor all left wing people are wrong about things.
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Nov 16, 2014 16:29
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Nevvy Z posted:Some left wing people are bad people therefor all left wing people are wrong about things. I heard that organizations run by men tend to downplay issues that affect women. Confirm/deny?
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Nov 16, 2014 17:43
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what is up with this really lazy thing where people accuse d&d of being a communist hivemind. it hasn't been that way for years. at least update your lovely forums stereotypes if you're going to get butthurt about a subforum on the regular
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Nov 16, 2014 20:44
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I, too, miss LF really loving hard.
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Nov 16, 2014 20:45
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Well my venture into this thread was a big loving waste of time. Y'all goobers are fit for the loving awful quotes thread.
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Nov 16, 2014 23:40
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Silver2195 posted:The "NERDS!" attitude is silly. Pretty much everyone posting on SA qualifies as a nerd. Yo I wanted to address this real quick because if you were talking about anyone you were definitely talking about me. I'm overweight, socially awkward, I have a job making software that distributes loving minecraft mods, and my hobbies are even lamer. But I don't "identify" as a nerd, and it's because I don't want to be associated with the sort of people who do. Call me a geek or whatever the new "hip" loving word is, but "nerd" is a label defined in the minds of its adherents primarily by how society has wronged its ubermensch and I want nothing to do with it.
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Nov 18, 2014 10:16
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