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PoshAlligator
Jan 9, 2012

When SEO just isn't enough.

SaviourX posted:

So with the mad holiday season approaching, what's everyone doing to prepare or promote their works?

I'm still waiting on Amazon to price match my novella to free like everywhere else, despite me telling then where it was free more than once.

Guess they're making too much money off it!! (they're not)

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Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING

PoshAlligator posted:

I'm still waiting on Amazon to price match my novella to free like everywhere else, despite me telling then where it was free more than once.

Guess they're making too much money off it!! (they're not)

cant even give your stories away :smith:

PoshAlligator
Jan 9, 2012

When SEO just isn't enough.

Sulla-Marius 88 posted:

cant even give your stories away :smith:

It's free on like Kobo and Nook or whatever. Apple store too.

If anyone wants a PDF of whatever I'd happily hook them up.

But it would be nice to be able to push my free poo poo out on the largest ebook marketplace.

Jalumibnkrayal
Apr 16, 2008

Ramrod XTreme

SaviourX posted:

So with the mad holiday season approaching, what's everyone doing to prepare or promote their works?

I'm just going to try to have a bunch of new releases from mid-December through mid-January.

Ghostwoods
May 9, 2013

Say "Cheese!"

PoshAlligator posted:

But it would be nice to be able to push my free poo poo out on the largest ebook marketplace.

I've been wondering whether Amazon have just stopped price-matching free books, so as to force more people onto KDP Select.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

e: sorry, I'll stop mentioning Erotica. For the sake of having SullaMarius' post below make sense, I will leave this in:

I care too much about what I'm writing to just put any old poo poo up, which is probably massively harming sales because there's so much of what I've written that is justifying or explaining the convoluted situations they're in.

My proper book feels like it's going well though, I just know when it's ready to go up (looong time away) though I'm going to have an existential panic attack over the marketing.

Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Nov 18, 2014

Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING

Bobby Deluxe posted:

I think I'm just putting way too much thought into it. I care too much about what I'm writing to just put any old poo poo up, which is probably massively harming sales because there's so much of what I've written that is justifying or explaining the convoluted situations they're in.

I wrote a basic hooker fantasy thing and over half of it is them just talking and building tension. I mean is it a case of just write any old poo poo? Can you get away with Literotica's level of quality?

My proper book feels like it's going well though, I just know when it's ready to go up (looong time away) I'm going to have an existential panic attack over the marketing.

The mods/admins have banned the erotica thread so we should probably be careful that we don't derail this too much. But you've brought up a question that applies to all writing (in fact, all industries): know your market.

For example, in YA you wouldn't get very far reasoning "hold up these characters are just kids, they don't know how to do poo poo, realistically they would just be torn apart by wolves after fifteen seconds and the rest of the time they'd spend feuding amongst each other with their thumbs up their arses, so that's what I'm going to write".

You're not writing to show how good a writer you are, or trying to advance the cause of artistic integrity - you're writing for an audience, for a market. Think what the market wants and write around that. Don't feel your characters' actions are realistic or consistent? Determine what the bounds of the genre allow - you might find that certain personality quirks are completely verboten (emotions and self-doubt in Sci-fi, or mediocrity in fantasy) and others are perfectly acceptable (fifteen-person anal gangbang in the frozen aisle at the local supermarket for erotica).

I'm hitting the same problem you are, I've just finished the first draft of a story for the erotica market and I've hit an unhappy medium that is 1) not good writing, and 2) not good porn. This is the result of trying to satisfy the market while keeping true to what I hold to be good fiction. You need to leave that out the window, and going into my second draft I'm taking a hatchet to every thing I threw in there to justify character actions or provide backstory. It's just going to be sex, a bit of exposition that enhances the sex, and nothing else. By trying to satisfy certain personal beliefs that the market doesn't give a poo poo about, I'm doing nobody a favour.

So, yeah. That's my approach, though obviously I'm in the same position as you. If you want to write for literature's sake, do whatever you want, just don't expect people to read it. But if you're writing to make money, if you're writing for an audience, keep their interests in mind. As people have mentioned before (or possibly that was on other forums), know your genre. There's a reason people haven't created a War and Peace / 50 Shades of Grey crossover, and it's not for lack of talent. It's because there's no market for it.

e: Another point about the 'know your market' thing, you said you'd written a hooker fantasy. Are you targeting hetero men (thin on the ground for written erotica), gay men, or women? I wouldn't have figured that women had many fantasies about hookers.

Ghostwoods
May 9, 2013

Say "Cheese!"
From the OP:

Sundae posted:

:siren:Erotica talk is NOT WELCOME in this thread by mod decree. Take it elsewhere, please.:siren:

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

Sulla-Marius 88 posted:

But you've brought up a question that applies to all writing (in fact, all industries): know your market.

For example, in YA you wouldn't get very far reasoning "hold up these characters are just kids, they don't know how to do poo poo, realistically they would just be torn apart by wolves after fifteen seconds and the rest of the time they'd spend feuding amongst each other with their thumbs up their arses, so that's what I'm going to write".
That is a very good point. There are a lot of TV shows / films that sell really well, and I watch them thinking "This is ridiculous, in real life that kid would get stabbed / there's no way that plan would work / being shot in the shoulder would send him into shock" etc. And yet it sells. I have to try and remember the phrase 'suspension of disbelief' and try to find a good balance of it.

I sometimes think that it might be more important to make sure that the reader believes that the character believes in what they're doing rather than trying to cover all your bases and justify it to the reader.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

SaviourX posted:

So with the mad holiday season approaching, what's everyone doing to prepare or promote their works?
Just finished a sequel to my top 100 novel, gonna pub that early december along with a bunch of promo/Kindle Countdown deal for the first one, maybe a free run depending on how much the rank has slipped. Boxed set of romance with a million other authors that's hanging out in the top 20 already, woop woop. Starting a new novella for my old pen name to give it a bit of a boost. Sitting on two short novels on a new pen name to start out in January once I have more bandwidth.

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot

moana posted:

Just finished a sequel to my top 100 novel, gonna pub that early december along with a bunch of promo/Kindle Countdown deal for the first one, maybe a free run depending on how much the rank has slipped. Boxed set of romance with a million other authors that's hanging out in the top 20 already, woop woop. Starting a new novella for my old pen name to give it a bit of a boost. Sitting on two short novels on a new pen name to start out in January once I have more bandwidth.

I wouldn't conceive of doing a free run on that first book.

psychopomp
Jan 28, 2011
I'd really hoped to get my next novel out this month, but I probably won't be ready to publish until the second or third week of December. Really considering holding off until January or February... December sales have usually been disappointing for me.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

EngineerSean posted:

I wouldn't conceive of doing a free run on that first book.
I'm thinking if/once it drops below 3k or so in rank or loses all its category rankings. I'm hoping not to have to do that, but if I get a third book out or a direct sequel, I'd totally do a freebie Bookbub with it in January to drive people to the new book. Maybe just one or two days though.

Also we get to see how rank stuff happens with preorders, I have about 800 preorders on the spinoff so I'm curious if it hurts more than it helps. I'd really love to be able to hit USAT in the first week if possible just to have letters on this pen name. And I'm hoping the preorders will drive reviews, basically like an ARC.

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot

moana posted:

letters on this pen name

well, you know how I feel about that*

I think a countdown deal would work great when book 2 comes out, but right now you're talking about this book like it's already dead when it's still in the Top 200 of the store.

*basically the dick measuring contest of the genre literature world right now

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
I've never had a book stick so high, okay?!?! GOSH, is this what success tastes like? Feels weird, man. I gotta plan for when the sky falls.

Also yes*
*but I'm trying to get letters for bookbub since they are dicks about everything

edit: also I had a Hungarian publisher contact me about selling my foreign rights to them in Hungarian. uhhhh okay! Do you have a foreign rights agent I could use, Sean?

LaughMyselfTo
Nov 15, 2012

by XyloJW

Sulla-Marius 88 posted:

For example, in YA you wouldn't get very far reasoning "hold up these characters are just kids, they don't know how to do poo poo, realistically they would just be torn apart by wolves after fifteen seconds and the rest of the time they'd spend feuding amongst each other with their thumbs up their arses, so that's what I'm going to write".

You're not writing to show how good a writer you are, or trying to advance the cause of artistic integrity - you're writing for an audience, for a market. Think what the market wants and write around that. Don't feel your characters' actions are realistic or consistent? Determine what the bounds of the genre allow - you might find that certain personality quirks are completely verboten (emotions and self-doubt in Sci-fi, or mediocrity in fantasy) and others are perfectly acceptable (fifteen-person anal gangbang in the frozen aisle at the local supermarket for erotica).

Bullshit. This is some of the worst writing advice I can possibly imagine. The wisdom motivating the advice is sound (practicality over perfectionism if you want to succeed in the market) but the implementation is explicitly and deliberately bad, like some teenager parodying a businesslike attitude because capitalism is out to get us and destroy art, man. Overestimating your audience's intelligence is easy (and fun), but underestimating your audience's intelligence is a great way to write crappy work that you don't believe in, and if you don't believe in your work, your audience won't either. Emotions and self-doubt are verboten in science fiction? Mediocrity is verboten in fantasy? All of these things are inherent to the human experience, and someone who thinks that they are necessarily absent in science fiction or fantasy either does not have a mature grasp on life or has an exceedingly low opinion of science fiction/fantasy readers. Surely romance novels, likewise, can have characters motivated by things other than romance, and detective novels can have mysteries that remain unsolved. Horror novels may have romances that we are genuinely invested in, rather than eagerly anticipating the lovers' deaths. Escapism is a major factor in popular reading, but it is not the only factor, nor does it necessitate bad writing - and though solidly falling into a genre is not bad writing, and is almost always necessary for sales, singleminded adherence to a negative image of the genre you're writing in is bad writing and unlikely to earn success.

quote:

I'm hitting the same problem you are, I've just finished the first draft of a story for the erotica market and I've hit an unhappy medium that is 1) not good writing, and 2) not good porn. This is the result of trying to satisfy the market while keeping true to what I hold to be good fiction. You need to leave that out the window, and going into my second draft I'm taking a hatchet to every thing I threw in there to justify character actions or provide backstory. It's just going to be sex, a bit of exposition that enhances the sex, and nothing else. By trying to satisfy certain personal beliefs that the market doesn't give a poo poo about, I'm doing nobody a favour.

So, yeah. That's my approach, though obviously I'm in the same position as you. If you want to write for literature's sake, do whatever you want, just don't expect people to read it. But if you're writing to make money, if you're writing for an audience, keep their interests in mind. As people have mentioned before (or possibly that was on other forums), know your genre. There's a reason people haven't created a War and Peace / 50 Shades of Grey crossover, and it's not for lack of talent. It's because there's no market for it.

Here the truth comes out. You, personally, are having trouble hitting the market and pleasing yourself at the same time, so you think they are contradictory goals. They are not. For a writer, success in a market comes best when you are satisfied with your work. Goddamn the false modesty, or at least what I assume is false modesty, that leads many successful writers to indicate that they hate everything they've written; you must at the very least like what you're writing when you write it, because if you can't even stomach your own work, who will? If you think your work is poo poo, because your audience is stupid and you need to write something that appeals to them, then congratulations, your work is genuine poo poo (and so are you)! But it's unlikely that you've appealed to the "stupid" audience you aimed for, because they're probably at least smart enough to pick up on your insincerity. There are many good works of fiction that could not appeal to the public - I believe these are what you refer to as "literature". And there are many bad works of fiction that can and do appeal to the public - your Twilights and Fifty Shades Of Greys. It's easy to look at these phenomena in conjunction and assume that "good" and "public appeal" are mutually exclusive qualities. This is outright wrong. If you're going to aim for public appeal, aim for public appeal, but write the best you can; that's all that's really required. Books like Twilight and Fifty Shades Of Grey aren't written by cynical types who've figured out what crap they can slap together and have the public consume. They're really the best things their authors could produce. It's the same for you - if you really can write something that isn't poo poo, then you have to if you want to be a writer. If you deliberately write worse than you can, because you view your readers in a condescending light, then you will not succeed in your goal, because your readers will smell it miles away.



Sooooo I'm thinking about self-publishing. I'd been pushed to ignore it in the past, on the basis that it's not "real" like traditional publishing, but I think that might be a load of bullshit; my personal belief is that traditional publishing is fading and dying and in the next decade or two, self-publishing will be all that's left. I might come back to this thread in the future. :)

No Gravitas
Jun 12, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
I'm tempted to self-publish, but I fear I may be selling myself far, far too short. My writing should be worth more than 2.99$.

Then again... getting an agent or sending my manuscript around seems like futility...

Ah, cannot win. Might as well just write for the fun of it and forget about selling.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

No Gravitas posted:

I'm tempted to self-publish, but I fear I may be selling myself far, far too short. My writing should be worth more than 2.99$.

Then again... getting an agent or sending my manuscript around seems like futility...

Ah, cannot win. Might as well just write for the fun of it and forget about selling.

To who? To yourself? Or to a publisher? $10.99 trad pub will net you less than a $2.99 self pub royalty. For most authors, I think that self pub is the most profitable approach. There are clearly exceptions, but I doubt most of them are in this thread.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

LaughMyselfTo posted:

Sooooo I'm thinking about self-publishing. I'd been pushed to ignore it in the past, on the basis that it's not "real" like traditional publishing, but I think that might be a load of bullshit; my personal belief is that traditional publishing is fading and dying and in the next decade or two, self-publishing will be all that's left. I might come back to this thread in the future. :)

It is definitely real. I am a fairly low-end author in my circle, and I will probably break $70,000 in royalties this year. There are people in this thread who blew that out of the water. Does it garner the respect of trad pub? Probably not. It certainly competes with them on earnings, though.

I like money, so I self publish. :)

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot

moana posted:


edit: also I had a Hungarian publisher contact me about selling my foreign rights to them in Hungarian. uhhhh okay! Do you have a foreign rights agent I could use, Sean?

I get a different turkish or indian company contacting me about foreign rights every time I hit the top 100 and i haven't fell for it yet.

Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING

LaughMyselfTo posted:

Bullshit. This is some of the worst writing advice I can possibly imagine. The wisdom motivating the advice is sound (practicality over perfectionism if you want to succeed in the market) but the implementation is explicitly and deliberately bad, like some teenager parodying a businesslike attitude because capitalism is out to get us and destroy art, man. Overestimating your audience's intelligence is easy (and fun), but underestimating your audience's intelligence is a great way to write crappy work that you don't believe in, and if you don't believe in your work, your audience won't either. Emotions and self-doubt are verboten in science fiction? Mediocrity is verboten in fantasy? All of these things are inherent to the human experience, and someone who thinks that they are necessarily absent in science fiction or fantasy either does not have a mature grasp on life or has an exceedingly low opinion of science fiction/fantasy readers. Surely romance novels, likewise, can have characters motivated by things other than romance, and detective novels can have mysteries that remain unsolved. Horror novels may have romances that we are genuinely invested in, rather than eagerly anticipating the lovers' deaths. Escapism is a major factor in popular reading, but it is not the only factor, nor does it necessitate bad writing - and though solidly falling into a genre is not bad writing, and is almost always necessary for sales, singleminded adherence to a negative image of the genre you're writing in is bad writing and unlikely to earn success.


Here the truth comes out. You, personally, are having trouble hitting the market and pleasing yourself at the same time, so you think they are contradictory goals. They are not. For a writer, success in a market comes best when you are satisfied with your work. Goddamn the false modesty, or at least what I assume is false modesty, that leads many successful writers to indicate that they hate everything they've written; you must at the very least like what you're writing when you write it, because if you can't even stomach your own work, who will? If you think your work is poo poo, because your audience is stupid and you need to write something that appeals to them, then congratulations, your work is genuine poo poo (and so are you)! But it's unlikely that you've appealed to the "stupid" audience you aimed for, because they're probably at least smart enough to pick up on your insincerity. There are many good works of fiction that could not appeal to the public - I believe these are what you refer to as "literature". And there are many bad works of fiction that can and do appeal to the public - your Twilights and Fifty Shades Of Greys. It's easy to look at these phenomena in conjunction and assume that "good" and "public appeal" are mutually exclusive qualities. This is outright wrong. If you're going to aim for public appeal, aim for public appeal, but write the best you can; that's all that's really required. Books like Twilight and Fifty Shades Of Grey aren't written by cynical types who've figured out what crap they can slap together and have the public consume. They're really the best things their authors could produce. It's the same for you - if you really can write something that isn't poo poo, then you have to if you want to be a writer. If you deliberately write worse than you can, because you view your readers in a condescending light, then you will not succeed in your goal, because your readers will smell it miles away.

:psyduck: you ever hear of context, man ?

a general reply to someone finding they're not hitting their market and are worried about making any money, throw in a couple off the cuff examples, and suddenly I'm a leading expert who has tried to publish the definitive work on What Literature Is

take that enthusiasm and point it at someone else

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

EngineerSean posted:

I get a different turkish or indian company contacting me about foreign rights every time I hit the top 100 and i haven't fell for it yet.
They're the Bella Andre/JM Ward Hungarian publisher, I am 99% they're legit. Ulpius Haz?

PoshAlligator
Jan 9, 2012

When SEO just isn't enough.

Sundae posted:

To who? To yourself? Or to a publisher? $10.99 trad pub will net you less than a $2.99 self pub royalty. For most authors, I think that self pub is the most profitable approach. There are clearly exceptions, but I doubt most of them are in this thread.

I just don't think I can market myself for poo poo if I want to publish a ~full real novel~

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot

moana posted:

They're the Bella Andre/JM Ward Hungarian publisher, I am 99% they're legit. Ulpius Haz?

wwell then what's the worst that could happen!?

(A lot)

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Out of curiosity, what is the worst that could happen, provided you have an expert looking it over to make sure it's not a total scam? I can't imagine even the most successful self-pubbers are moving a ton of books in Hungary (assuming it's restricted to foreign rights only in that country). Or is it just that it's never not an obvious scam?

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot
I guess I should give moana a lot more credit but I'd have to be really sure that I'm going to be compensated enough for those Hungarian rights before I give up any control over any of my titles in any capacity. The very worst that could happen is that you sign it without a lawyer looking at it and you give away something you didn't intend to for life of copyright. Another bad thing would be that they structure their company the way Hollywood does and pay you x% of net, which ends up being zero.

edit: I also feel that like the most realistic scenario is that you end up getting a yearly check for like $80.

edit2: Gah I can't believe I didn't think of this but your breakout series was about a Hungarian prince, is that the one they want?

EngineerSean fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Nov 19, 2014

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
I mean, I'm not going to make bank in Hungary, they say advances are the way you make any money in foreign rights and I believe it. And no, weirdly enough, it's for my new book. I don't care, it's not like I'm going to do a Hungarian translation myself since I can't imagine I'd make any money. It would just be a cool thing to say I had :)

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot
I'll be honest, I probably just wouldn't bother. Probably pissing money down the drain but there's a sucker born every minute and I don't want it to be me. Good luck with it though! :)

Enrico Furby
Jun 28, 2003

by Hand Knit

EngineerSean posted:

Poster "All Else Failed", let me ask you a serious question. It's been twelve days (give or take) since you first posted in this thread. Have you written or published any erotica works? I've only done one and outlined another in that period of time because I took a vacation, but erotica is definitely a numbers game and if you aren't producing, you aren't going to make it.

I finally started last night. It's pretty slow-going thus far. I'm the type of person who has immense trouble starting something productive, but if I can fit myself inside of it and start to enjoy it and tough my way to that a-ha! moment where things start clicking, I can coast on some kinetic motivation. I am fully aware of the need to produce to make this work but let's be honest, that's sage advice for any craft or endeavor.

I think I did around 400 words last night. I've squeezed out about 350 words thus far today but I'm trying to make a decent push through my scatterbrainedness. I miss chainsmoking cigarettes inside right about now, that's for sure. ;). To my credit (maybe), I apparently have trouble just making GBS threads out the words and kind of obsessively edit as I go. It probably makes for more cohesive writing in the meantime, but maybe feels less productive by a simple wordcount. I'm kind of shooting to get to 1500 words a day, five days a week, which seems like a reasonable number that I grabbed from Dalia Daudelin's AMA. That will take time for me though, I am sure.

I am kind of surprised by that process thus far. Writing short stories was my first love as a teenager. It dwindled over the years. Actually taking these first steps aroused a bunch of emotions I didn't expect -- I found myself caring right away about the character and setting and how to write it well while trying to shape it into a certain theme. I found myself un-numbing from the world a bit to dive into my memory and imagination authentically. It has been kind of jarring given my current state. If I didn't have a set goal, this would probably turn into straight romance or something. I actually agree partially with what LaughMyselfTo said while simultaneously believing what I've said previously regarding a bread and circus hoi polloi. There is probably a balance between the two that is most accurate, as is typically the case.

I've been trying for years to overcome the odd sense of loneliness I get when trying to do things that are unconnected from the world. For some reason, I can write all the time on Facebook or play an online game with other people, but writing in Word or playing a single-player game requires overcoming a potent feeling of dread, anxiety, and loneliness. I'm curious if anyone else knows this particular brand of agita and what they do to conquer it, but as always I think the answer is the simple "Face that poo poo, hurt a little, and beat it. There is no easy way."

Also, I am currently accepting prim and proper blowjobs for the utter privilege of reading my brilliant canon, in keeping with this thread's assumptive perception of me. ;) I am willing to admit that I misspoke when I said I would never let a stranger read my work and critique it. I simply have to feel good about that person's way of viewing the world and talent as a writer, and would require some degree of trust which is almost a non-starter in the sphere of internet anonymity. I will say, though, that I got a bunch of advice about 10 years ago on a really pretentious, typical piece of writing I posted in CC that I resisted in the fashion many of you are familiar with, and what I can remember of the criticism was pretty spot on. It took me a long time to come around to the standard Hemingway school of concise writing because I have a love for flowery language and the feel and texture of words themselves. In the past several years I've realized the value (fun, even) in small, dense sentences fired off in staccato. Not that you could tell from my posting. :p

EngineerSean posted:

The very worst that could happen is that you sign it without a lawyer looking at it and you give away something you didn't intend to for life of copyright. Another bad thing would be that they structure their company the way Hollywood does and pay you x% of net, which ends up being zero.

Isn't this the whole reason to get into self-publishing? It's the same thing that is happening across so many marketplaces. Music and gaming especially, but you can even see some weakening of old gatekeepers in TV and film (and maybe even a little bit in banking). The artist has been hosed forever by the business class. They've got it down to a science. The RIAA taught us that. I'd lawyer up before I signed anything, ever, with regard to art or entertainment.

Enrico Furby fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Nov 19, 2014

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

All Else Failed posted:

I think I did around 400 words last night. I've squeezed out about 350 words thus far today but I'm trying to make a decent push through my scatterbrainedness. I miss chainsmoking cigarettes inside right about now, that's for sure. ;). To my credit (maybe), I apparently have trouble just making GBS threads out the words and kind of obsessively edit as I go. It probably makes for more cohesive writing in the meantime, but maybe feels less productive by a simple wordcount.
If I could offer one piece of advice, it would be this: free write first, edit later.

Your brain consists of two processes - creative and critical. And they absolutely do not get on. When producing, your major problem is always going to be your critical side shooting down ideas as they form. For me this is counterproductive because if I let my brain roll, a lot of complete poo poo comes out* but when I look at it afterwards critically, it can be trimmed into something useable - often good. To get the best out of the critical/creative dichotomy, sometimes you just need to separate them a bit.

I do this and on the days when my e/n bullshit isn't crushing me and I can work, I average 1-2k words a day. Blog post about it:

http://dansclayton.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/where-do-ideas-come-from.html

Also my god do I miss brain drugs. I don't smoke anymore and in my early twenties I developed a sensitivity to caffeine, so unless I want palpitations and eventual tachycardia, I can have like one coke a week, maybe. But no coffee. Being a writer without coffee is horrible. This must be what normal people's brains feel like.

I wish the science was in on whether or not ecigs are safe enough because 90% of my best ideas over the years have come from a good walk and a fag.

* much like my posting

Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Nov 19, 2014

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



All Else Failed posted:

I am kind of surprised by that process thus far. Writing short stories was my first love as a teenager. It dwindled over the years. Actually taking these first steps aroused a bunch of emotions I didn't expect -- I found myself caring right away about the character and setting and how to write it well while trying to shape it into a certain theme. I found myself un-numbing from the world a bit to dive into my memory and imagination authentically. It has been kind of jarring given my current state. If I didn't have a set goal, this would probably turn into straight romance or something. I actually agree partially with what LaughMyselfTo said while simultaneously believing what I've said previously regarding a bread and circus hoi polloi. There is probably a balance between the two that is most accurate, as is typically the case.


I know I troll you a bit here but serioustalk I'd rather read what you've produced than Sulla's cynical erotica because you actually sound enthusiastic about writing.

Enrico Furby
Jun 28, 2003

by Hand Knit

Bobby Deluxe posted:

If I could offer one piece of advice, it would be this: free write first, edit later.

Your brain consists of two processes - creative and critical. And they absolutely do not get on. When producing, your major problem is always going to be your critical side shooting down ideas as they form. For me this is counterproductive because if I let my brain roll, a lot of complete poo poo comes out* but when I look at it afterwards critically, it can be trimmed into something useable - often good. To get the best out of the critical/creative dichotomy, sometimes you just need to separate them a bit.

I do this and on the days when my e/n bullshit isn't crushing me and I can work, I average 1-2k a day. Blog post about it:

http://dansclayton.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/where-do-ideas-come-from.html

Also my god do I miss brain drugs. I don't smoke anymore and in my early twenties I developed a sensitivity to caffeine, so unless I want palpitations and eventual tachycardia, I can have like one coke a week, maybe. But no coffee. Being a writer without coffee is horrible. This must be what normal people's brains feel like.

I wish the science was in on whether or not ecigs are safe enough because 90% of my best ideas over the years have come from a good walk and a fag.

* much like my posting

"Personally, I think Neil Gaiman had one of the best explanations for where ideas come from, namely that he doesn't know and he doesn't really want to know in case it scares them off." Haha, I love that.

Sobriety is a curse to creativity as far as I'm concerned, but I'll pay for it physically much sooner than you will I'm sure. It's about weighing your options, really. Different strokes and such.

Anyways, I agree with what you're saying, and what the blogpost is saying, to a considerable extent. I don't know that they're totally applicable to what I am trying to do in this particular endeavor, given the nature of it. I am engaging in a more structured exercise with this, almost trying to suppress some of my creativity for learning and mastering a template of fundamentals. Keeping it simple, stupid (if you will). It's a new thing for me, and I think a positive step in improving my writing. I did begin the idea for this first piece by just sitting down and writing, as I usually do -- within a paragraph of writing and editing I knew what I wanted to do. So it kind of follows, anyway.

Were I trying to write something I considered totally free-form and creative, I think those three steps would be quite useful. It strikes me as a great method for self-generating writing prompts from the aether of your own creativity; a way to conquer the dread blank page. When I had more of a life out in the world, I used to carry a notebook and get drunk and write ideas for jokes in it. The humor ended up being in the complete non-sequitur nature of whatever the hell my idea was at the time, but it's something I'd like to pick back up when I'm not a complete shut-in anymore and am trying to write for the sake of pure art. As it is currently, I am almost always at my laptop and Facebook functions similarly for me.

Now that I think of it, when I set out to write a new song (I use a kind of left-to-right sequencing style of music creation), it is very much like free writing, copying one part and building on it over and over, which eventually wanes almost entirely into editing the progression of what I've ended up with. Writing on the straight-and-narrow and attempting to create original music (or write original works) are two totally different animals, though, which was my initial point here.

If that's your blog, I (identify with your absent-mindedness and need to write down ideas and) find the non-fictional writing of it to be incredibly personable and easy to follow. Cheers.

The Saddest Rhino posted:

I know I troll you a bit here but serioustalk I'd rather read what you've produced than Sulla's cynical erotica because you actually sound enthusiastic about writing.

My level of cynicism fluctuates daily. I made a similar point to Sulla's earlier in this thread, so I don't think it is without value when pursuing a lowest-common-denominator market like erotica. It can keep you grounded in delivering to the masses what they want.

And let me be one in millions of unwashed nerds to tell you, "One does not simply quit League of Legends." ;)

Enrico Furby fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Nov 19, 2014

Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING

The Saddest Rhino posted:

I know I troll you a bit here but serioustalk I'd rather read what you've produced than Sulla's cynical erotica because you actually sound enthusiastic about writing.

yeah i 100% agree with you, anybody who says writing is a developed skill or that there are certain frameworks worth following is a callous corporation that essentially thinks literature is "press button print money". i hate reading authors who actually edit their work once they've written it, or subscribe to this business cult notion of 'genres', i mean do you think literature comes from a process? gimme a break, if its not first draft and done without an ounce of self-reflection or thought for the reader then it's artificial as gently caress and not worth the paper it's printed on. it's gotta be real and from the heart so first drafts only please, like the other guy said if you ain't drunk then your writing's crunk and you be hella posin'.

this thread is where it's at and i'm glad we can all come together as a group to agree that all literature is defined literally 100% without exception by whatever the next guy posts:

Enrico Furby
Jun 28, 2003

by Hand Knit
bubble butts

Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING
There you have it, if it isn't bubble butts then you may as well kill yourself, you sick corporate drone. You know sometimes I have nightmares about a world where books are actually read by readers rather than just written by literary geniuses. One time I had a bad acid trip and for a brief few seconds I had the distinct horror of hallucinating a universe in which books were sold for money and the desires of the reader, and the ability of the reader to comprehend the author's intention, were factored into the creation process.

I still get shakes just thinking about it

Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING
You pretentious goofball

Enrico Furby
Jun 28, 2003

by Hand Knit
Is the 88 in your name one of those covert white supremacist things? You have the general disposition of a skinhead who accidentally walked into a Woody Allen flick. Then he had to watch it to completion 'cause his Doc Martens sank into the stickiness of so many spilled Semitic sodas.

(I feel like we're getting slightly off topic here.)

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Yeah, I think we're about done here. Anyone have new releases planned for the Christmas rush? I'm trying to get my next one out for the post-Christmas Kindlemas.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



When are you nerds making out, worst erotica thread.

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Enrico Furby
Jun 28, 2003

by Hand Knit

Sundae posted:

Yeah, I think we're about done here. Anyone have new releases planned for the Christmas rush? I'm trying to get my next one out for the post-Christmas Kindlemas.

I will have my first title or three up in time. I don't expect I will see anything from it, but that's no reason to be a slouch. How would you recommend maximizing visibility without a pre-existing catalogue and the standard OP stuff like "have good cover, have good blurb, cross fingers"? You've been through a few of these seasons by now, does anything change besides a significant uptick in purchases?

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