Blasmeister posted:

Starrcade '97's infamous Hogan/Sting match had a verbal submission. Given the rest of the circumstances around the match, its quite possible that it was done to ensure the Hulkster didn't get seen tapping out. And that Bret was the referee that already looked unreliable due to restarting a clean finish match makes it even more suspicious.

Perry Saturn matches might well have included a few verbal submissions, as the Rings of Saturn submission doesn't leave arms free to tap.

magnum_valentino posted:

Anybody know the name of the King Of The Hill episode where Peggy won't let Bobby watch (I think) Smackdown because of The Worm?

Benne posted:

So I've been watching old Raws and Nitros on the Network (FOR NINE NINETY NINE) and one thing that strikes me as different from the modern-day product is how they end episodes. As in, there is an actual ending.

The main-event match may or may not have a gently caress finish, but the final minutes always cut back to the announce team where they talk about what just happened, build up the major storylines going on and promote scheduled matches happening on later shows. And then they sign off like a proper TV broadcast. None of the wishy-washy endings we see these days where Raw always runs 10-15 minutes long, there's a nonsensical brawl, either the faces or heels pose strong depending on Vince's mood that afternoon, and you don't even know when the show is ending until it cuts to black.

My question is: When did they go away from the earlier style? Say what you will about the content of mid-90s Raw/Nitro, by the end I usually have a decent idea of what's going on and what's coming next.

Cardboard Box posted:

attitude era was where cliffhanger endings became commonplace. couldn't tell you exactly when it started but it was definitely by 1998.

MassRafTer posted:

By late 96 Nitro is pretty much a clusterfuck ending and a tease for next week.

Benne posted:

So you're saying I've already seen the last of those endings

I found the old method refreshing after getting back into wrestling this year and getting months of DQ FINISH CLUSTERFUCK BRAWL WE'RE OUTTA TIME, but so it goes, I guess.

Benne posted:

Speaking of old Nitros, what was Big Show's billed weight when he was The Giant in WCW? Dude looks a good 100 pounds lighter than he ever did in his WWE run.

Incidentally, I'm enjoying The Giant matches way more than Big Show matches.

Luigi Thirty posted:

7 feet tall and 450 pounds.

Benne posted:

Either I'm getting whooshed or WCW was even more hilarious than I thought at fudging numbers, because not even the camera adding 10 pounds could make The Giant look like 450.

quote:

His real name is Paul Wight, but he wants to be called The Giant. And since he's 7-foot-2, 450 pounds and still growing, believe it or not, that's exactly what we'll call him. Or you can call him "Champ," because The Giant is the World Championship Wrestling heavyweight champion. His next major battle is Sunday at the "Bash at the Beach" (pay-per-view, 6 p.m. Central Time).

quote:

The Giant, who has been wrestling professionally for only one year, will make his acting debut this fall in "Reggie's Prayer." The movie also features football great Reggie White, Pat Morita ("Karate Kid"), ex-NFLer Rosey Grier and rapper Hammer. The Giant portrays a thug/drug dealer, and White is a high school teacher/football coach who tries to help some of the students make the right choices.

RacistGuidingLight posted:

RIP Reggie go Packers

Under the vegetable posted:

Benne posted:

Say what you will about the content of mid-90s Raw/Nitro, by the end I usually have a decent idea of what's going on and what's coming next.

MassRafTer posted:

By late 96 Nitro is pretty much a clu

sportsgenius86 in the stupid/TNA fans thread posted:

the best is the one reply to this claiming that HHH stole the heel owner role from Dixie, as if it had never been done before TNA arrived

Thauros posted:

Who was the first heel owner/promoter anyway? Find it hard to believe someone didn't do it before Vince in 1997. On a related note if you generalize it a bit further, who was the first heel authority figure?

Thauros posted:

Who was the first heel owner/promoter anyway? Find it hard to believe someone didn't do it before Vince in 1997. On a related note if you generalize it a bit further, who was the first heel authority figure?

EugeneJ posted:

Vince was doing his heel gimmick in USWA in 1993:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGbVMMbi6nE

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Yeah, but he wasn't the owner/promoter in those cases. Not of the USWA, anyways.

Thauros posted:

Yeah, the Memphis invasion thing is interesting as the origin of his heel character, but an outsider heel is different from having the guy in charge of your promotion either in reality or kayfabe be a heel.

Luigi Thirty posted:

he's... 450 pounds and still growing,

DeathChicken posted:

I wouldn't say Jack Tunney was a heel so much as hard nosed neutral. He just kind of did things whether it was popular or not, like vacating belts when things got weird. And suspending Danny Davis forever for being a crooked referee.

DeathChicken posted:

I wouldn't say Jack Tunney was a heel so much as hard nosed neutral. He just kind of did things whether it was popular or not, like vacating belts when things got weird. And suspending Danny Davis forever for being a crooked referee.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Generally in the territory days promoters/commissioners were faces. They were usually there to even up the odds. Like Randy Hales in Memphis, or Bill Watts in Texas/Louisiana. Or for WWE purposes, Jack Tunney.

It very well may have been tried elsewhere first, but I'd be stuck to figure out where. Vince and Eric were certainly the first successful ones.

Red posted:

Jack Tunney is basically Bud Selig

Davros1 posted:

Stanley Blackburn in the AWA wasn't a heel, but goddamn did every decision "he" made pissed off the fans. (Verne was the one really making all the decisions)

There was one incident in '87 or '88 where Greg Gagne beat Curt Hennig for the AWA World Title in a steel cage match. Afterwards, the belt was returned to Hennig. Why? Because according to Blackburn titles can't change hands in a steel cage match. It was basically the ol' Dusty finish (and who in their right mind would put the World Title on Greg Gagne), but holy poo poo if that didn't piss people off. There was even an interview with Greg where he said the contract he signed specifically stated that it was a title match. And Blackburn was like "Nope, don't care what the contract says, the World title can't change hands in a steel cage match."

Halloween Jack posted:

Were the fans actually behind Greg Gagne? Was he ever over outside of a tag-team?

Davros1 posted:

Stanley Blackburn in the AWA wasn't a heel, but goddamn did every decision "he" made pissed off the fans. (Verne was the one really making all the decisions)

There was one incident in '87 or '88 where Greg Gagne beat Curt Hennig for the AWA World Title in a steel cage match. Afterwards, the belt was returned to Hennig. Why? Because according to Blackburn titles can't change hands in a steel cage match. It was basically the ol' Dusty finish (and who in their right mind would put the World Title on Greg Gagne), but holy poo poo if that didn't piss people off. There was even an interview with Greg where he said the contract he signed specifically stated that it was a title match. And Blackburn was like "Nope, don't care what the contract says, the World title can't change hands in a steel cage match."

Halloween Jack posted:

Were the fans actually behind Greg Gagne? Was he ever over outside of a tag-team?

MassRafTer posted:

Gagne was perfectly serviceable and relatively over in the role he had, perpetual upper midcarder.