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Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

theironjef posted:

I may have posted on the wrong quote. I have little beef with Rogue Trader, all the random monkey cheese stories I hear tend to come from the one where people play Chaos Marines. Lots of "Then I mailed vomit to his children and took a poo poo in his ear" stuff.

That's Black Crusade.

Okay, here's the deal with Black Crusade. It's a game that's ostensibly about playing the "bad guys" of the setting, i.e. Chaos (though one of the points of the 40K setting is that Chaos and the Imperium aren't really that much different from each other so it's a matter of degrees). That said, there's nothing in any of the Black Crusade books that encourages that sort of monkey cheese behavior or even any sort of skeezy poo poo either. Like, take the Book of Vile Darkness for D&D3E as a counterpoint. Black Crusade doesn't have Nipple Clamps of Exquisite Agony, there's no corpse-loving prestige class. Even the Slaanesh book, the one about the god of excess, doesn't have any of the stuff you'd find in, say, Cthulhutech, no rape shoved everywhere, I don't even think there's any cheesecake art.

The point of Black Crusade is basically to be a grandiose supervillain. You have two tracks, Infamy and Corruption, and you want Infamy (your reputation and renown for being the baddest dude) to reach 100 before your Corruption does. If you do that then you ascend to demigodhood and win the game, if your Corruption hits 100 before that though then you have an overdose of Chaos-stuff and become a mindless monstrosity instead. The game wants you to do stuff like conquer planets, lead the titular Black Crusades, steal important relics, summon daemons, fly spaceships into other spaceships, and generally ham it up all the time while you're doing it.

That said it is a game about being "evil characters" and there are some people out there who use that as an excuse to do dumb poo poo. Like with the 40K minis game, how there are some people out there who play Chaos as an excuse to sculpt dicks and tits all over their miniatures or paint swastikas all over everything. But that's down to those players being dumb idiot assholes and not the game encouraging or rewarding that sort of behavior. As always the answer is not playing with dumb idiot assholes.

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inklesspen
Oct 17, 2007

Here I am coming, with the good news of me, and you hate it. You can think only of the bell and how much I have it, and you are never the goose. I will run around with my bell as much as I want and you will make despair.
Buglord

Alien Rope Burn posted:

The index is not maintained. I personally went to the work of making sure my own F&Fs are up to date, but I don't know if anybody else has. There's also the offsite index created by Inklesspen, but it's based off of the wiki and isn't any more up-to-date that I'm aware of. (It's a great site, but most F&Fs are being lost like tears in the rain right now.)

I have the complete contents of all three threads (24622 posts). However, I was relying on the wiki to tell my script which posts to pull out of the database and compile into the writeups.

Since the wiki is not being updated anymore, I am working on an alternative solution, but my spare time is not as frequently available as I would like.

However, if anyone would care to update the wiki, I will resume fetching it and updating the site on a regular basis (while I work on the new system).

Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora
The only time I ever see any 40K RPG stories is crap from 4chan.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
There's a whole thread full of'em here, plus multiple active PbPs in The Game Room at any given time.

Eldad Assarach
May 1, 2014

Part 5: New Mutant Animals & other crunch

We going to move away from 1st Edition ATB for today and take a look at changes to character creation and other little things in the game. I'd have covered it sooner, but frankly I thought that the setting was far more interesting.

You may have noticed I've been focusing far more on the fluff of ATB than the crunch, and that's because I personally find the Megaversal system dry than a hundredweight of crackers. It doesn't help that everything from ATB 2nd Ed was shamelessly cribbed from previous Palladium books. That being the case, I'll only focus on the new stuff stuff I'm pretty sure is new.

First of all, the Mutant Animal tables have been expanded. There's the regular table, which is virtually unchanged since the days of TMNT&OS, but but there's also a sub-table on "Purebreds". Apparently a town of mutant Chester-breed pigs would act kinda snooty to, say, a mutant Arkansas Razorback. Then again, mutant purebred dogs, horses and chickens are way less snobby, so that's okay! You can also be a throwback (long-extinct animal brought back via dicking around with recessive genes) or a chimera (ungodly meld of creatures that should not be the same thing). This table is honestly pretty boring, except for...

Allosauroid

Well, they can't all be winners.
It's a dinosaur! Well, sort of. This is actually what happens when geneticists have too much spare time on their hands, and decide to screw around with a chicken's DNA to bring back the dinosaurs. This is the only Throwback I'm including on this list, because the rest are so booooring. If you think I'm kidding, the rest are as follows; Okefenokee Hog, Passenger Pigeon and Egyptian Cat. Hell, the only reason I included this one was because it's technically a dinosaur.

Human Mutants
Yes, you can play as a mutated human (According to the book, they make up about 15% of the human population). You can even have animal powers! I'd go into more detail, but this is all covered in a TMNT&OS sourcebook that I hope to cover at some point, so I'll just say that I really don't see the point of this!

Pleasure Bunny

Yes, this is really the official art. No, I'm not kidding.
Oh, this loving thing. And yes, "loving" is a completely appropriate word to use. This is what happens when geneticists have too much spare time on their hands, and decide to turn rabbits into sex slaves. And these aren't "rabbits, only sexy furries :fap:" they're just "people who look sexy, and might have a fluffy rabbit tail if their PC is a minmaxer". See, there's one new wrinkle to ATB chargen; Vestigial Disadvantages, which are animalistic traits you can buy in character creation for a little extra BIO-E. They're mostly boring (musk glands! You can only eat meat/plants!) except for Reptile Brain, which makes your Alligator PC more likely to flip out and beat the poo poo out of smaller characters, which can be worse if your GM includes the optional rules for Horror Factor. Yes, they included the Horror Factor from Beyond The Supernatural. No, I don't know why either.

Back to the Pleasure Bunnies - their Mutant Animal Powers are... well, do you remember that one Cthulhutech adventure? Well, they're a bit like that, just comparatively less rapetacular; their pheremones are designed more to get you in the mood than to make you a mindless vegetable with a boner. Then again, they can also produce pheremones to bind an individual to gently caress only them, so swings and roundabouts. They can also control their weight, body fat and muscle, to tailor their appearance to whoever they want to rape convince to gently caress them.

Spider-Goat

According to the rules, this particular Spider-Goat has too many pairs of legs. :effort:
Yeah, you knew this was coming. See, Wujcik had read an article about transgenic goats and automatically assumed that meant goats would soon have spider-powers, because that's just what Erick was like. Name says it all, you can be a mutant goat that's also Spider-Man. Web shooters, spinnerets, ability to walk on walls... you can even get extra limbs if you want to recreate that. Spider-goats are usually found in heavily-wooded communities, and are easy-going, helpful people with a good sense of humour (they tend to rib anybody caught in their webs, but in a nice way).

Chameleon Mouse

There's no art for a Shifter Mouse, so have this kickass mouse instead.
Again, Wujcik read a thing and assumed that real-world science had finally caught up with Silver Age comic books. Not only can these mice change their eye colour, they can emit light (ultraviolet and infrared are available), become a strobe light, change skin colour (no bright colours, only earth tones), turn nearly invisible (more Predator than Memoirs of An Invisible Man) and be super stealthy, even when running.

Shifter Mouse

5 will get you 10 that this is recycled from some other Palladium book.
I can't find the specific study Erick is misinterpreting, but apparently after scientists experimented with injecting mice with a gene that could triggered hormonally, they decided to go the whole hog and inject mice with all sorts of genes. The end result was the Shifter Mice, who can change their physical appearance to resemble another animal after ingesting said animal's blood into a small hole under its tongue. It's not all great news; if the Shifter turns into a brain-damaged animal then they'll stay that way, and all their children are 1d6 Shifter Mice, which can lead to awkward situations in bigoted communities.

Porkopolis Flying Swine

Hardy-har-har.
Yes, these are pigs with wings from Cincinnati. They still live there, and they get wings for free in chargen, which is nice.

Then there's the "optional" table, which is much larger. Most of it's stuff cribbed from ATB and TMNT&OS sourcebooks... in fact, the only way to get stats and BIO-E count for most of the animals is to buy the sourcebooks.

There's a table for what kind of fur/scale/skin pattern/colour combination you have (boring), what side effects you get from injuries (somewhat useful) and Apprenticeship Programs. After the Big Death, formal education took a backseat to the whole "not dying" thing at the time, so everybody went back to making sure the next generation learnt a trade by making them become somebody's apprentice. In-game, this is basically just a bunch of skill packages you get that will rarely come up, unless you took the Healer Apprenticeship, or maybe the Armorer Apprenticeship. I doubt your time spent learning how to be a farrier will make much difference in-game.

Psionics got expanded a lot from the list in TMNT&OS, most of them to do with sensing stuff (Cell Reader, Psychic Diagnosis, Sense Nemesis, Sense Tectonics) or techie stuff (Natural Mechanical Genius, Techno-Mind). There's also Prosthetic Psionics, which can let you walk with no legs, or pick stuff up when you've got no hands – the only problem is that you can't use any other psionics while you're using that stuff. I've no idea if this is cribbed from Heroes Unlimited or not, but Chimeras have to buy Animal Control for both of their original species, which is neat.

Next time: The Gun Bunnies!

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Eldad Assarach posted:

Next time: The Gun Bunnies!

I get the feeling this is going to be a bit more literal than it would otherwise be.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Kurieg posted:

I get the feeling this is going to be a bit more literal than it would otherwise be.

It's amazingly 80s.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Eldad Assarach posted:

Human Mutants
Yes, you can play as a mutated human (According to the book, they make up about 15% of the human population). You can even have animal powers! I'd go into more detail, but this is all covered in a TMNT&OS sourcebook that I hope to cover at some point, so I'll just say that I really don't see the point of this!

Transdimensional Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is an amazing and delightful stream of pure and shameless nonsense.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Alien Rope Burn posted:

Transdimensional Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is an amazing and delightful stream of pure and shameless nonsense.
I like how it presents multiple methods of time travel.

That all work in the same way except for the details of how much poo poo you can carry and if you're casting a spell or using a time machine or the like, but they can all travel in exactly the same lengths of time because of the rather strange way time travel in general was set up.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
Gazateer, what's your take on the Giant skin? It's not For-The-Skinless, and it embodies a teen archetype/monster. My qualms are the "roll 2d8 instead of 2d6 whenever your size would apply, 8s cause problems" and the "hide your heart" move (which makes you unharmable and unable to be manipulated by strings).

Tasoth
Dec 13, 2011
Is there a trade-off on the Hide Your Heart move? If doing that also prevented you from getting/using strings or from being able to act outside of a towering brute, it could work. I have a feeling that this is not the case though.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 7 hours!

quote:

Powered by the Apocalypse

quote:

roll 2d8
No. No, no, no, no, no.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Halloween Jack posted:

No. No, no, no, no, no.

Basically this.

swapping out 2d6 for 2d8 without changing the target numbers completely throws off the success/failure curve. even a modest stat of +1 means that you hit 10+ 56% of the time. +2 gives you 67% of the time, and +3 gives you a comparably ludicrous 76% 10+ rate.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 7 hours!
Forget the probability. It's a beautifully simple little basic mechanic, leave it the gently caress alone! Who really wants to drag out a different kind of die in a game where one of the principle features is that you only need 2d6? The things the move is supposed to do can be done by writing them into a Skin move. It seems calculated to let one player call his character out as the most special teen monster.

I feel that PbtA games attract a lot of bad homebrew. People examine the game on a superficial level and fall in love with the simple die-rolling, the tags, and the playbook-and-moves character creation, and immediately want to make more playbooks before they've even read the MCing chapter of a PbtA game. These are the same people who will ask why Monsterhearts doesn't have stats for weapons and why the Ghoul and Vampire don't get some kind of Hunger Meter.

(Of course, there's a lot of bad homebrew for, say, D20. But it's easier to design content for D20 games in a vacuum--if the power disparity isn't extreme, it doesn't matter if you're playing a paladin and I'm playing a slightly-different-paladin that our DM foolishly wrote up as a basic character class. Whereas you look at some of the moves in homebrew playbooks for Monsterhearts and you see that they negate or overlap with the features of another playbook, one that somebody else is likely playing--this is intolerable in a game that's supposed to follow the "yes, and" principle.)

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
Yeah, the Giant is pretty lackluster.

Here's the core move, Size Matters:
You’re huge. When you make a move, and your size matters, roll 2d8 instead of 2d6. For each die that comes up an 8, choose one:
} you break something,
} you hurt someone,
} someone gains the Condition 'terrified'.
The MC will will say what or who.


Here's "Hide Your Heart":
When you remove your heart, gain the Condition 'heartless'. While it is hidden, people can’t spend Strings or inflict harm on you.

Here's Gentle, which is feat-taxy;
When you act with care, roll d6s instead of d8s.

The move "Castle" is thematic but bizarre:
You have a special place made just for you. When someone enters your castle,
gain a String on them. While they are there, spend a String to have them do
one of the following:
} encounter a guardian,
} find something you think they want,
} gain the Condition trapped.


The other one (Swallow Whole) lets you eat people, belch up secrets, and regurgitate them unharmed. Goliath lets you kick rear end and impress others in physical contests (I guess you could use those d8s and your +1 volatile to gain strings on folks through arm wrestling tournaments).

The one that annoys me most as a GM is "Companion: You have an animal companion, also very large."

So there's a new game mechanic (is it a gang? Does it collect strings? What kind of harm does it take?) with no explanation. Compared to Dungeon World, where the ranger's animal companion gets 9 whole sentences and covers 1/3 of the sheet.

Oddly, it looks like The Giant has been playtested, as the Development team is noted as:
Ross Cowman (creator), Robert Bruce, Orion Canning, Terri Cohlene, Morgan Stinson, and Jackson Tegu.

Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Nov 25, 2014

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Golden Bee posted:

Here's "Hide Your Heart":
When you remove your heart, gain the Condition 'heartless'. While it is hidden, people can’t spend Strings or inflict harm on you.

Okay, so...I can't be harmed, and people can't socially harm me, and the cost is a Condition, which is pretty meaningless because I am largely immune to negative consequences.

Why would anyone think that's a good idea?

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Mors Rattus posted:

Okay, so...I can't be harmed, and people can't socially harm me, and the cost is a Condition, which is pretty meaningless because I am largely immune to negative consequences.

Why would anyone think that's a good idea?

Normally I'd say ignorance, not malice: every move seems designed by someone who is unaware of at minimum one core mechanic. Perhaps Ross Cowman just added Jackson's name for creating MH.

Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Nov 25, 2014

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
Does it say anything about what happens if someone finds your heart? Can you safely eat it with Swallow Whole? Speaking of which, that and Castle's 'Trapped' condition fill me with negative joy with the implication that you can use them to lock people down... and that's even before no-selling string-spending or violent escape attempts with Heartless.

Halloween Jack covered everything that's wrong with the core move, better than I ever could, but I'm still in awe of how lovely that thing is.

GodFish
Oct 10, 2012

We're your first, last, and only line of defense. We live in secret. We exist in shadow.

And we dress in black.

Golden Bee posted:

Normally I'd say ignorance, not malice: every move seems designed by someone who is unaware of at minimum one core mechanic. Perhaps Ross Cowman just added Jackson's name for creating MH.

Jackson Tegu is behind the second skins kickstarter (and the Selkie I think), not Monsterhearts itself.

The moves seem to be focused on thematic concerns, not mechanical ones, which doesn't solve the mechanical problems, so it seems like the skin could work well with a group of people who have played before, and aren't going to focus on 'winning monsterhearts'.

Size Matters seems to do a good job at capturing the feeling of a going through growth spurts and getting stronger while not being used to your new body, and having to constantly worry about damaging something or someone whenever you do something.

Hide Your Heart prevents physical damage or strings, but it gives everyone an easy +1 against you from using the condition Heartless for nearly any social roll.

With Castle, all Trapped can do is make you vulnerable while inside the special place, but it doesn't prevent or make it any harder for you to roll to run away.

Overall though this skin would be a disaster in the wrong hands.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Getting +1 to social rolls against you doesn't really matter much when people can't do much with that.

GodFish
Oct 10, 2012

We're your first, last, and only line of defense. We live in secret. We exist in shadow.

And we dress in black.

Mors Rattus posted:

Getting +1 to social rolls against you doesn't really matter much when people can't do much with that.

They can gain strings, promises, give conditions, make them lose strings, gaze into the abyss to see why you can't be harmed or to find your heart. Hiding your heart gives you an advantage, but all it takes for that to come crashing down is for someone to find your heart, and then they would (literally) have your heart in their hand to do whatever they want with.

Tulpa
Aug 8, 2014
The Giant was designed pretty much for and from one-shot play using the alternate basic moves Ross also designed (which I believe are also available through the Second Skins kickstarter)

So, the lack of understanding of the basic mechanics of Monsterhearts comes from those mechanics pretty much not being used. I've told him before that his alternate basic moves gut the string economy but the designs he likes are pretty much all about fictional positioning with no mechanical weight to that positioning. It's not Fiction-first, it's Fiction-only.

Gazetteer
Nov 22, 2011

"You're talking to cats."
"And you eat ghosts, so shut the fuck up."

Golden Bee posted:

Gazateer, what's your take on the Giant skin? It's not For-The-Skinless, and it embodies a teen archetype/monster. My qualms are the "roll 2d8 instead of 2d6 whenever your size would apply, 8s cause problems" and the "hide your heart" move (which makes you unharmable and unable to be manipulated by strings).

The giant's loving weird.

Halloween Jack posted:

Forget the probability. It's a beautifully simple little basic mechanic, leave it the gently caress alone! Who really wants to drag out a different kind of die in a game where one of the principle features is that you only need 2d6? The things the move is supposed to do can be done by writing them into a Skin move. It seems calculated to let one player call his character out as the most special teen monster.

That's almost literally the idea, though, I think? I mean, not "most special", but rather... strongest. The Giant is supposed to be tougher and stronger than everyone around them. The whole concept kind of hinges on that. So they can push everyone around and beat people up really easily, they can scare and intimidate people, they can do all kinds of poo poo like that, and they have moves to like... swallow people and make themselves immune to harm and all kinds of over the top stuff. The tradeoff is supposed to be that being that strong kind of sucks, I guess? Like, you hurt people and break poo poo you don't want to break or something like that. I've never seen this skin in actual gameplay, but it feels more than a little awkward, and potentially just unfun for other people.

Like, the Second Skins proper has the Wyrm, which has a move that can literally deal as much damage as they want (Scales), but it's limited to once per session and is designed to have some heavy social fallout -- this is basically a skin where someone was like "but what if you were like that ALL THE TIME?" and then they made that skin.

Tulpa posted:

The Giant was designed pretty much for and from one-shot play using the alternate basic moves Ross also designed (which I believe are also available through the Second Skins kickstarter)

So, the lack of understanding of the basic mechanics of Monsterhearts comes from those mechanics pretty much not being used. I've told him before that his alternate basic moves gut the string economy but the designs he likes are pretty much all about fictional positioning with no mechanical weight to that positioning. It's not Fiction-first, it's Fiction-only.

Thank you, that explains a lot here. Like why there is literally a move to own an unusually large pet with no actual mechanical effects. Although that move is actually my favourite part of the skin, because it means you can have a giant adorable dog or something in a bunch of scenes.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
I guess it makes sense for other base moves, but I've never even heard of the set. They're not even in the "84 skins and the core rulebook" place.

Otherwise, you could apply your giant status to everything. "I turn them on by showing off my loooooong legs. I shut them down by putting my chest equal to the top of their head. I run away with my huge strides."

ZeeToo
Feb 20, 2008

I'm a kitty!

Testament: Roleplaying in the Biblical Era, part 12

We're still in the bestiary. Let's check out some of the Babylonian monsters.

The Bull of Heaven is an unstoppable force that crushes everything in its path and is only unleashed as an extreme case of monstrous divine retribution. Wow, this guy's gotta be some sort of statistical horror, right? Let's check what he's got. CR 13, 20 HD, only two natural attacks for 2d6+10 damage. That's, uh... not very imposing. Maybe it's his special abilities that make him scary? No, his only scary thing is that if you kill him, you have to make a DC 30(!) Fort save every day or lose 1d6 each of Str/Con. You can't recover stats until you cure the disease, and you can only cure the disease with a miracle. That's a fair thing to foist on a level 13 at best party.

(paranoia :nws: for furry demon boobs)
http://i.imgur.com/WRXMrKz.jpg

Lamashtu are seven demon monsters who horrify wide communities, their horrifying diseases and blights sending whole regions into a frenzy to appease them. They're CR 10, mostly focused around causing diseases, and have some ability to corrupt water and so on. I guess I can see why they're fearsome, but this is a weird step down after the Israelite beasties are these actually world-threatening epic threats and Babylonian ones are a pain if you don't have a paladin.

Death Dragons are the far less pathetic dragons of Testament. While still built on roughly the white dragon 'chassis', these three headed dragons actually have three actions per turn. Each head can make a breath attack of dark acid individually, or go for physical attacks or whatever else. That's pretty scary on its own, but they can do it from self-created deeper darkness, they can dispel magic you take against them... and that's without their buffed breath weapons at higher levels, which are a disintegrate beam and one of slay living that's a reflex save-or-die.

Basically, there's only one thing that concerns me with these guys.


Where are the other two heads?

Canaanites don't have any god monsters, though, so it's straight into Egyptian.

First up, I have a correction to make. I said earlier that there aren't any stats for hippos, but I was wrong. Hippopotamus are filed under Egypt, and they're CR 4 and very simple creatures. They do have Spot and Listen at +6, so do be aware of that when tuning your hippo-hiding amulets. These guys are not as scary as you might expect, because while they have a nasty attack bonus, their damage is only 1d6+8 and... that's it. If you have someone to cast Cure Light Wounds every turn, it has only 60 HP of its own and no other anything. This is a rather weak CR 4.

Let's check out a more imposing CR 3 foe: Apep-Spawn. These huge snakes can confuse people as a free action, have fast healing 3 at night or in darkness and constitution-damage poison. See, that's something nasty for a group to deal with.

Then there's the Accursed Ka-Spirit template. These undead are only +2 CR, and any humanoid can be so struck. They can cast imprisonment as a level 17 sorcerer. If you're forgetting your 3.x era D&D, Imprisonment is one of the nastier save-or-lose spells, since... well, it doesn't even kill you. If this strikes you, you're instantly locked in suspended animation until a different level 9 spell is used to free you. That is a reasonable thing to throw at a level 2-3 party. Wait, cast as a level 17 sorcerer? Sorcerers don't get to cast level 9 spells until level 18! They also have earthquake, stone shape and more in their casting list and a tendency to be found underground. This is absurd.

That's actually it for the bestiary, though. Next time we get into the setting information! This is actually almost a hundred pages of reference material, statistics for your favorite Old Testament characters and advice for playing in the Testament setting! Are you ready to find out what Samson's strength score was?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Hippo how can you LET ME DOWN so hard? After how much I talked you up!?

Saguaro PI
Mar 11, 2013

Totally legit tree
*shrugs* I like the giant, and I really like Size Matters. Not only do I think Size Matters isn't a bad move, I think "2d8 but consequences for 8s" is actually a really good tool for PBtA tinkering, albeit one that should be brought out once in a blue moon and extremely carefully at that.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
2d8 would be an OK flat roll, but in MH you're supposed to be bringing +1s, stat bonus and strings to the table.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

It's interesting to note that the Barbarian for DW lets you swap a d6 for a d8, but only under specific circumstances, and with a risk of more danger.

quote:

Herculean Appetites
Others may content themselves with just a taste of wine, or dominion over a servant or two, but you want more. Choose two appetites. While pursuing one of your appetites if you would roll for a move, instead of rolling 2d6 you roll 1d6+1d8. If the d6 is the higher die of the pair, the GM will also introduce a complication or danger that comes about due to your heedless pursuits.
⃞ Pure destruction
⃞ Power over others
⃞ Mortal pleasures
⃞ Conquest
⃞ Riches and property
⃞ Fame and glory

The Giant, meanwhile, don't seem to have anywhere near as much risk while at the same time having no thematic reason for the die boosts. Near as I can tell, only one of the Giant's drawbacks would have an immediate effect on things (hurting someone). Breaking something has a good chance of just being thematic, and "terrified" doesn't mean much if people don't have a way to take advantage of it.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
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#1 Builder
2014-2018

Another thought on the Giant: sure, I'll accept that there are still things that can be done to get strings on the Giant while heartless, and that this is useful.

It still largely shuts down the avenues of conflict with the skins that are bad at social and whose reaction to conflict is usually 'escalate to violence' - the Dark/Volatile skins, especially. Now, one can argue that it was designed for an entirely different set of basic moves - and that it may work quite well with them! But I'd never want to see it in a game that didn't use those.

Tasoth
Dec 13, 2011
Did I miss the Locusts of the Apocalypse for Testament? I think you could pull a pretty neat monster out of that if you statted it like a dragon.

ZeeToo
Feb 20, 2008

I'm a kitty!

Tasoth posted:

Did I miss the Locusts of the Apocalypse for Testament? I think you could pull a pretty neat monster out of that if you statted it like a dragon.

Sadly, Testament pretends there's nothing but the Old Testament to pull from. Anything you were expecting from an AD source is entirely absent.

Eldad Assarach
May 1, 2014

Part 6: Gun Bunnies & Zombies

This is the first adventure for the book, and the most notorious (we'll get to that later on). This is all the work of Matthew Balent, who wrote a few weapon books for Palladium. It's billed as an "Introductory" adventure, but we're warned that it'll take several session to complete, and any party under 3rd level will need some NPC hirelings if they don't want to die.

You are a group of Cardanian scouts hired by Commander Yeats, a rat renowned for his infiltration of The Rodent Cartel, to investigate claims from members of a captured criminal gang. They say that the town of Benny, just north of Empire territory, has a treasure trove of pre-Big Death technology and weapons. The downside is, Benny is also said to be overrun by "psycho-zombies" (mutant animals being mind-controlled to become brainless brutes) controlled by a mad scientist.

The party's main objective is to check out the town and put a stop to the psycho-zombies before The Empire decides to use the technology on a larger scale (it's assumed to be an Empire experiment because, let's face it, who else would think this is a good idea?). The PCs will be accompanied by a guide; Ozzie Bleu, former member of an all-otter recon unit a decade or so ago. He's good at his job and knows the area well, but he's not comfortable giving orders.

HOPE YOU LIKE lovely RABBIT PUNS


Here's something to break up the walls of text.

It'll take a week to get there - Ozzie will take the party along The Hudson River) and, naturally, there's a bunch of encounters along the way to pep things up, if you have time; in 1st Edition, they're just a list for you to slot whenever you feel like, but 2nd Ed they're a 1d6 table of random encounters. They're mostly uninteresting in and of themselves – Empire patrols, Wolf Barbarians, or just "roll on the monster table" if you're using 2nd Edition – but there are two that definitely add to the atmosphere. The first one involves the group coming across the remnants of a fire, with corpses littering the ground (already looted, of course) – they're victims of The Empire in 1st Ed, but 2nd Edition leaves it open to GM interpretation. The other interesting one is Samuel (or Samuela if you're using 2nd Ed); she's a grouse (bird, not just somebody who complains) who's the sole survivor of a sneak attack by The Gun Bunnies. She didn't get away scot-free though, and there's pretty much no chance of her surviving unless you get her to a hospital right away. Before she dies, she tells the group not to trust The Gun Bunnies, as they betrayed her group.

As for Benny itself, it's Albany; there's a statue of a pig in the old Tobin Packing Company, as a monument to the dead. And yes, the "psycho-zombies" are definitely real.

They're the ongoing experiment run by William "Brother Bill" Delsier, a mad scientist who escaped from The Empire after faking a mental breakdown and got a slight case of the JESUS after living with an old monk for a year, before the monk died. Apparently he didn't teach Bill much about brotherly love, because Delsier decided to use electronic brain implants to create psycho-zombies, or "Gloons" as he calls them, because ONE stupid name for these things just wasn't enough.

The Empire doesn't really know much about all this, but when they do they'll make sure to get the technology for themselves. That doesn't mean the technology's fool-proof; a few devices have shorted out, and a few Gloons have wandered off, leaving only 26 out of the original 200 Gloons are still wandering Benny, occasionally causing a ruckus. Also, Delsier was made a dog in 2nd Edition. Why? Who cares!

Benny isn't completely inhabited by Bill and his Gloons – there are a few small gangs who roam around the place, trying not to be turned into something with a stupid name. They're all cowardly assholes who'll try and act tough if the odds are in their favour, but are more likely to trade information. No idea what they want to trade it for, because neither edition tells us! The "information" is just a bunch of rumours, most of which are bullshit.



But enough of this :words:, let's get to the Gun Bunnies!


Here are the Gun Bunnies, according to Peter Laird...


... and here they are, as drawn by Apollo Okamura.

The Gun Bunnies are the surviving descendants of the pets of a pre-Big Death survivalist, a "good old boy" by the name of Zeke Tater. There's about 150 of them, but most of them are holed up in "The Warren", 50 miles away (or 15, depending which book you read). The only ones you'll give a poo poo about are Bug, Bomb, Bullet and Beach.

Bug Bunny
The leader by default; he's old enough to remember Zeke, and he's the only one in the group that's not a hot-headed rear end in a top hat. 1St Ed gives him the Animal Powers of Advanced Smell & Hearing and Leaping, and Sixth Sense for Psionics. 2Nd Edition upgrades his power set to include Advanced Vision for Powers, and swaps Sixth Sense for Sense Nemesis, Mind Block and Danger Sense.

Bomb Bunny
The de facto second-in-command, on account of his smooth tongue and the fact that he's Bug's best pal. He's a little obsessed with fashion, and very obsessed with explosives – he has his own demolition lab in The Warren (sealed off from the rest of the base, of course). In 1st Ed, he only had Advanced Hearing for an Animal Power, but 2nd Edition bumped it up to Extra Speed and Extra Physical Prowess, just in case the PCs thought this might be a fair fight. He also knows how to play the harmonica. Nope, me neither.

Bullet Bunny
Simply put, he's an rear end in a top hat. He's dressed like a punk, because this was first written in the 80's, and he's a hot-headed rebel who doesn't play by your rules, man! He's also in charge of The Warren's armoury, and is a drat good field commander. His Animal Powers of Advanced Smell & Hearing got beefed up with Brute Strength in 2nd Edition, because shut up.

Beach Bunny
Did we really need to know that she has a shitload of makeup and hair dyes back at The Warren? Or that she likes skin-tight clothing? Or that she's hosed "dated" most of the guys in The Warren? Oh, she's good with machines, and has Danger Sense and Telepathic Transmission. That's almost useful to know. gently caress you, Balent, you skeevy rear end in a top hat.

The Gun Bunnies themselves will introduce themselves in a number of two ways; they'll either ambush the party, or swoop in after the party has done something difficult and take whatever it is they've just found. It'll usually be one of the above NPCs with about 9 other mooks, all armed to the teeth and riding Jeeps. They'll generally just dick around and be assholes, unless one of the PCs is a rabbit, in which case they'll at least be open to negotiation. They'll still probably screw you over if the situation benefits them, but at least they'll make the initial effort.

And... that's about it. Well, Delsier's holed up in the Monastery of The Immaculate Conception, so presumably you're meant to go there and kick his poo poo in, hopefully without getting your poo poo kicked in by the fluffy-tailed dickweeds listed above. Palladium has never been big on having well-defined story arcs for their adventures, preferring the "Here you go, deal with this poo poo" school of thought.

Next time: A Journey to Boar's Town!

Eldad Assarach fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Dec 1, 2014

Gazetteer
Nov 22, 2011

"You're talking to cats."
"And you eat ghosts, so shut the fuck up."




The Harpy

The Harpy is, as far as I understand things, the most recent Skins for the Skinless skin that has been made. And that actually shows, because… this skin has a problem that I never thought I’d be identifying in relation to a SftK skin -- it is too good at what it is supposed to do.

So, you’re a harpy. You know, gross terrible bird monster from Greek Myth. Sort of. You defile things and claw peoples’ metaphorical and literal entrails out and poo poo like that. Or maybe you’re not actually a bird monster -- because first and foremost, you are an offputtingly effective bully. This is a skin about harassing people into self loathing and self harm. And it all feels way more reprehensible than things like The Vampire or the Ghoul. I mean, you’re eating people there, but that’s because you’re an undead monster -- eating people is what you do. It’s tropey enough with them that you can just kind of let it slide within the genre. The Harpy, though? The behaviour this skin encourages just feels… distressingly real. Like, this is not a metaphor or an exaggeration -- the moves I’m going to detail here literally just describe the way actual bullies destroy actual lives.

And the reason it crosses the line for me, is because it is mechanically really, really good at doing these things. The moves are actually mostly cleverly conceived and work together to fulfill the skin’s role in a way that the earlier SftK skins could only sort of fumble vainly at. To the point that it actually feels a little bit overpowered, and could definitely use some interesting drawbacks and humanising elements. Especially the latter. Like, I would let someone play a loving Beast in a game of mine before I would let someone bring a Harpy to the table, because at this point this is all way too on the nose to be any fun.

The Harpy’s origins are… not all that exciting. “used to be popular” and “former nerd with an Extreme Makeover” are both mundane origins for people who I guess don’t even want the thin veneer of deniability things like “storm spirit incarnate” and “implement of divine vengeance” provide. Also a lot of these origins are weirdly wordy.

The Harpy’s good stats are Cold and Volatile. As I’ve said before, this is the combination skins like the Ghoul have, and indicates that you are good at loving people up physically, and at holding your own socially. It indicates that you’re a much more blunt instrument than skins that combine cold with Hot or even with Dark, and that you’re pretty dangerous in general. As you will see, the Harpy’s moves take that and make it go entirely too far with it.

Skin Moves

You start with any two of the following:

Alkonost
When you Lash Out Physically, you turn into a bird monster. You do 1 additional harm, and you can fly and shred things with your talons do other bird monster stuff until you calm down.

This isn’t a bad move, really. It makes you physically tougher, sure, but what I find interesting is that it isn’t optional -- if you take this move, lashing out physically will always activate it. So you hit harder, but you can’t actually attack someone without revealing yourself as the monster that you are, something you can avoid when you’re only like… emotionally destroying people. So, this is honestly a pretty good move. Build on it a little, and you could actually hang a whole skin off of that mechanic. But here, it’s just one move among many.

The skin advice notes that Alkonos is the only “overtly supernatural” move that the Harpy has, so you can theoretically play this skin as just being a tremendously lovely person if you want. I kind of disagree that none of these other moves are supernatural in nature, though, because of the next one.

Boread Chase
When you run away, you don’t need to roll -- you automatically succeed unless you’re running from someone who can fly.

This seems really hard to justify unless you also can fly, so I’m not sure if I buy the idea that it’s not inherently supernatural, but I don’t know, maybe you’re just like… an expert at parkour as well or something. Also, this is a terrible move; it’s literally a move that let’s you avoid using another move, and Run Away honestly has some of the most interesting drawbacks of any of the basic moves. And like… Volatile is one of the Harpy’s good stats, so I’m not sure why you’d include a move specifically to avoid rolling Volatile.

Defiler
When you succeed at shutting someone down, you get to choose one additional effect from the following list:
  • The target loses a string on someone other than you (it doesn’t specify who chooses this, which is regrettable)
  • They gain the condition Befouled
  • They make their next roll at -1
  • They lose access to their gang until they Hold Steady

My main issue with this one is that it could use some clearer language in places. As I noted above, it’s not clear who gets to decide who the target loses that extra string on -- you, them, the MC? The move gets a somewhat different dynamic depending on which way you interpret it. Also, does “they make their next roll at -1” mean that they make their next roll as if they had -1 in the relevant stat, or does it mean that they subtract 1 from their next roll? I’m assuming the former, but it’s still slightly confusing.

Basically, though, this move seriously beefs up Shut Someone Down, turning it from a primarily defencive move into one that has some real offencive teeth to it. Some of those penalties are really nasty -- think about that last one applied to a Queen. Sure, Cold is one of the Queen’s good stats, but it could be a major inconvenience over the short term. It's... mechanically pretty solid, because it directly ties into the skin’s core concept as a vicious bully. This is a move that lets you destroy your victim’s self worth and ostracise them from their peers.

Elegant Egotist
If you Turn Someone On when they already have a condition you’ve placed on them, roll with Cold instead of Hot. On a 10+, you can offer them a point of experience to do what you want without spending a string.

Wow, that’s, uh… incredibly dark. Honestly pretty clever and evocative, but this is literally a move to put other players into emotionally abusive, sexually charged situations. It’s probably the best usage of “roll with X instead of Y” that we’ve seen in Skins for the Skinless so far, and to be honest it’s more interesting than the way that mechanic is used in a lot of canon skins. Just… it might go a little bit too far for some peoples’ comfort. Which is kind of a running theme with this skin.

It’s also going to be very, very easy to also use that condition against the target when making these Turn On rolls, so you can pretty much assume that this move has an implicit +1 bonus on top of rolling with cold in most situations.

Lightning Talons
When you Shut Someone Down in front of others, you add 1 to the roll. If you get a 10+, you can also destroy an “intangible possession” of theirs. This can be a friendship, their feelings of self worth, their reputation... and this lasts until they successfully Shut You Down, Lash Out Physically against you, or “otherwise assert their dominance.”

So, bearing in mind that this has a lot of synergy with Defiler… this is basically a move that damages another character significantly, and forces them to pursue further confrontations with you in order to get over it. Which might be complicated if, say, they also have that “your next roll is at -1” thing in effect from Defiler. And once again, we have the issue of this move being… well, somehow more mean spirited feeling than even things like the Ghoul’s “you have to literally eat people” move. And we’re also getting to the point where this skin is verging on overpowered; I’d really like to see more tangible drawbacks here.

Rose Whip
The name of this move is, for the record, a Yu-Gi-Oh! reference. So, you can decide how you feel about that on your own, I guess.


Anyway, when you roll to Manipulate an NPC, treat 7-9s as if they were 10+s. On a 10+, the target will do what you want without being given a bribe, a threat or other explicit motive.

I guess the deal with this one is that it’s supposed to be leaning on your reputation as a scary rear end in a top hat in order to get your way without your having to explicitly threaten people -- it’s understood that if they don’t, you might get nasty. I’ve got an issue with it, though:

I’s another one of these straight “reduce the risk of a basic move” deals, although much less extreme than Boread Chase. And it’s not so bad here, since it requires you to roll Hot, one of your bad stats, in order to activate it; so it turns low-Hot Manipulate rolls into even more of a gamble than they usually are, with a bigger payoff to encourage you to try. So while I’m still not a huge fan of the fundamental mechanic, this is by far the best way Topher has implemented it so far.

Screech
When you gain a string on someone, you carry 1 forward to your next Shut Them Down or Lash Out Physically roll against them.

So… this move basically plays off of Defiler and/or Elegant Egotist, which are ways that the Harpy can employ in order to gain strings without having to roll Hot. Either way, it encourages you to target the same person with Shut Down rolls over the course of multiple scenes, because Shutting Someone Down can be used to both put conditions on someone (which you can use to gain strings on them with Elegant Egotist) and to gain strings on them directly with Defiler, and oh look by gaining those strings, I’m now even better at shutting them down. This is a move that rewards you for singling out a specific NPC or PC and making their life a living hell.

So… mechanically clever, but holy poo poo, guys.

Snatcher
When you Lash Out Physically against someone, you place a condition on them. On a 10+, you also smash or steal an item belonging to them.

So, this is another way to get conditions on people for the purposes of Elegant Egotist, and yet another way to make someone feel like poo poo. At this point I think the biggest mechanical problem is still that not enough of these moves have interesting drawbacks on the Harpy’s part. Rather than piling on an additional benefit like “you get to steal or destroy their phone”, this should expose a weakness that others can exploit in return for that condition.

Storm Wind
When you Gaze Into the Abyss about a specific person, on a 7-9 you carry 1 forward toward your next Shut Someone Down roll against them. On a 10+, you gain a string on them.

This has synergy with basically anything involving Shut Someone Down or strings. Which, uh… is almost everything. Similar issues to Rose Whip -- mechanic I’m not fond of mitigated by encouraging you to roll with a bad stat. I feel like the skin really does not need two of these.

Sex Move
After having sex with someone, you either have to compliment them, or you have to insult them. If you give them a compliment, you gain the Going Soft condition, lose all your strings on them, and you mark experience. If you insult them, you treat it as if you had just Shut Someone Down and rolled a 10. Which possibly activates moves like Defiler.

So this is simultaneously this skin’s one loving redeeming feature and another way to be an utterly terrible piece of human garbage. Or bird person garbage. Whatever.

Darkest Self
Oh boy. Here’s where it all goes a little bit too far-er than it already had been. :cripes: So, you know how most of those moves above more or less work in combination with each other in order to encourage you to single out a specific person and make their life utterly terrible? Well, the Darkest Self provides a very explicit end goal for that:

You are never going to be happy, so no one else deserves to be. In that spirit, you pick a “vulnerable target”... and you don’t stop attacking them. Emotionally, physically, whatever. You just keep on giving them poo poo until you literally drive someone to self harm. And yes, that is the only way to escape your darkest self -- loving drive someone to start cutting themselves or attempt suicide or whatever. Which, incidentally, is relatively easy to do to an NPC, because in combination with most of this skin’s moves being very good at destroying someone’s self worth and happiness, Rose Whip means that if you can score a 10+ on a Manipulate roll, telling someone to “go kill yourself” will pretty much just work. And with how many ways you have to pour on conditions and take strings, it’s pretty easy to beef up your Hot rolls until that happens, if you’re really determined.

If you pick a PC, then you’ll likely run into the problem that, well, most players not being comfortable with depicting self harm, even in a hammy teen monster drama. There’s also the very real chance that both you and the other player involved will not actually have a lot of fun with this kind of dynamic once it’s in play, because, well, Jesus Christ this is terrible.

Other Stuff
Your gang advance is Vicious Flock. At the very least, all of these moves are easy for other skins to pick up. So they too can be even shittier people than they already normally are.

Next Time: The Minotaur -- another bully skin, but a less horrifying one. Thank god.

Gazetteer fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Dec 2, 2014

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
A nitpick I also personally have with the Harpy is that it just isn't evocative of a supernatural beastie. Yeah, harpies are a known mythological critter that have been slain by many a dungeons and dragons character, but I'm not getting any fluff to go with the crunch here. Nothing about the harpy screams "bully to the point of driving someone to suicide." A demon or a revenant, sure, but the harpy just feels... random.

Doesn't help that the skin doesn't feel like it provides any pathos. You like to hurt people. You're really, really good at hurting people, physically and emotionally. The darkest self suggests a sort of abuse victim turns abuser mentality, but none of its moves play into the suggested mindset of "I'm never going to be happy, so no one else should be happy, either."

I think the Harpy works fine as a villain skin, which depending on your game's needs may not require any motivation more complex than "wants to make your life hell," but I wouldn't allow it as a PC skin in my gaming group as presented.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

I think is they're using harpy, but they're really going for Fury - whose entire shtick is lashing out and tormenting wrong-doers.

But the pathos listed in Sex Move and Darkest Self isn't anywhere else, they're just vicious bullies because... because.

Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Dec 2, 2014

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Cythereal posted:

A nitpick I also personally have with the Harpy is that it just isn't evocative of a supernatural beastie. Yeah, harpies are a known mythological critter that have been slain by many a dungeons and dragons character, but I'm not getting any fluff to go with the crunch here. Nothing about the harpy screams "bully to the point of driving someone to suicide." A demon or a revenant, sure, but the harpy just feels... random.

Actually, this is exactly what harpies did in Greek myth. They were torturers and punishers of the wicked. Their most notable appearance is when they were set to torment the prophet-king Phineus of Thrace, who Zeus blinded and put on an island with an eternal banquet, which the harpies would defile and steal and keep him from ever getting to enjoy. They are similar in this way to the Furies, but aren't the same critters. The harpies never especially cared if they were right to punish someone, see, they just enjoyed it.

Not that I like the Skin, mind, but it is accurate.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Mors Rattus posted:

Actually, this is exactly what harpies did in Greek myth. They were torturers and punishers of the wicked. Their most notable appearance is when they were set to torment the prophet-king Phineus of Thrace, who Zeus blinded and put on an island with an eternal banquet, which the harpies would defile and steal and keep him from ever getting to enjoy. They are similar in this way to the Furies, but aren't the same critters. The harpies never especially cared if they were right to punish someone, see, they just enjoyed it.

Not that I like the Skin, mind, but it is accurate.

I stand corrected.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 7 hours!
Oh, wow. I didn't think I was going to hate this skin when you said it's problem was that it's too good at what it does, but I really hate it.

Cythereal posted:

Doesn't help that the skin doesn't feel like it provides any pathos. You like to hurt people. You're really, really good at hurting people, physically and emotionally. The darkest self suggests a sort of abuse victim turns abuser mentality, but none of its moves play into the suggested mindset of "I'm never going to be happy, so no one else should be happy, either."

This is the real problem with the Harpy, much moreso than lacking a cozy fictional analogue.

I'm playing a Ghoul right now, and it's turning out to be a more subtle skin than people credit it. Because the Ghoul is stuck with Hunger, it's easy to be misled into thinking that satisfying the Hunger is the Ghoul's driving aim in life, which is not true. It's something that the Ghoul is driven to do, just like the Ghost is locked in a cycle of trauma and blame, and the Mortal is driven to codependence while the Vampire is driven to manipulation instead of real intimacy.

The Harpy, on the other hand, doesn't have any redeeming features built into it except in the Sex Move. "You're good at hurting people, except sometimes you don't, which is completely your choice and also benefits you." It's great if you want to play a teenage Francis Dolarhyde.

Not to mention that the Moves themselves are just bad. Bad as in overpowered, not understanding the structure of the rules, and putting power in the Harpy's hands at the expense of the other players and the MC.

Alkonost: Whenever you lash out physically, you are freaking out with giant bird claws. I think the discussion of the Beast gets into why this is bad. Plus, I'm not a big fan of Moves that are basically "You are extra effective if you have a supernatural freakout" without delineating a clear consequence for that. I think it invites the player to throw any scene into chaos, and no one has more incentive to do that than the Harpy.

Boread Chase: Auto-success, no consequences? No.

Lightning Talons: "Destroying intangible possessions" sounds like something Conditions are designed to cover.


Wow. This Skin is so bad. I am made at this gameelf.

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theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



It's time for System Mastery! Have you ever heard of Darkurthe: Legends? We hadn't! I bought this one because it was softcover and I need to do my research reading on a series of planes. It's a D&D heartbreaker with nothing really to recommend it. loving game design world of 1993.

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