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bloops
Dec 31, 2010

Thanks Ape Pussy!

hobbesmaster posted:

So the navigator is kind of a liaison between the mission crew and the flight crew? Seems like an odd position on a modern plane, E-3/JSTARS must be the last planes with a dedicated navigator. (Not navigator/bombardier or whatever)

No one really occupies that role. If anyone, it's the FE who serves as a buffer between mission and flight.

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CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

holocaust bloopers posted:

No one really occupies that role. If anyone, it's the FE who serves as a buffer between mission and flight.

On JSTARS its the Navigator. Our FE is too busy watching our very old engines chew through fuel.

bloops
Dec 31, 2010

Thanks Ape Pussy!

CommieGIR posted:

On JSTARS its the Navigator. Our FE is too busy watching our very old engines chew through fuel.

Same thing I did on the awacs.

Prop Wash
Jun 12, 2010



CommieGIR posted:

C-130H2 and C-130H3 still use them, as well as the EC-130s, HC-130s, KC-130s, etc.
I don't know, but I think the KC-135 still have a nav.

On most planes with a full digital flight system, they are largely obsolete, as mission planning is done ahead of time and all waypoints and nav information is stored.

But on JSTARS, the mission can change mid flight and nav solutions have to be re-plotted as they go. Also, when a call comes up for a scan, the nav will plan the orbits and proper spacing to get the best resolution.
So, yeah, just a liaison really.

The standard argument is that during any real war we'd all be hosed ten ways if all we do is plug in waypoints and depend on the GPS for the rest. Still, nobody seems to care and cutting nav positions saves money, so I guess it's all good. Anyway modern INSes are pretty great and if you've got two of them then even if you lose the GPS what could go wrong?

The US air force, in its infinite wisdom, has reclassified navigators as "combat systems officers" and that's the majority of what we do on the C-130H (and yes, we still have plenty of '74 C-130H1s in service). Over time the C-130 picked up a ton of weird missions and hardware (defensive systems, JPADS, sight angle airdrops, approximately ten laptops, etc.) for which it helps to have someone who isn't directly handling the controls. The idea is that on the C-130J most of these missions have been baked directly into the software.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd

bitcoin bastard posted:

Drone operator: Okay Doddie, fly over to that wedding and...
*Star Trek TNG playing in background* Picard: Engage!
Doddie: *ding dong* Engaging wedding

E: Also if DoD ever does release a Siri clone, I hope they name it Doddie.

If GA builds it the weddings will be safe, it'll crash the plane well before it gets within range of any sort of social gathering terrorist camp.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

holocaust bloopers posted:

No one really occupies that role. If anyone, it's the FE who serves as a buffer between mission and flight.

The nav is too busy reading or jerking off to answer the net. Or keep us inside the goddamned orbit and out of Iran. :ninja:

charliemonster42
Sep 14, 2005

MrYenko posted:

(I still hear JT8D compressor stalls in my sleep.)

Googling this led to this pretty neat video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQWYhsYfMxE

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011

Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"
Have some pilots flying insanely low.










More here: http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/325/Lower-than-a-Snakes-Belly-in-a-Wagon-R.aspx

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






:stare:

xergm
Sep 8, 2009

The Moon is for Sissies!

Bacarruda posted:

Have some pilots flying insanely low.

My favorite has always been this pass:

External view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntN_cZUQg8

Cockpit view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1G-RrZbTL4

Barnsy
Jul 22, 2013

xergm posted:

My favorite has always been this pass:

External view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntN_cZUQg8

Cockpit view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1G-RrZbTL4

That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Gibfender
Apr 15, 2007

Electricity In Our Homes

xergm posted:

My favorite has always been this pass:

External view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntN_cZUQg8

Cockpit view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1G-RrZbTL4

:aaa: Jesus Christ

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Just a reminder that you can only ever tie the record for lowest flight.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

MrChips posted:

Just a reminder that you can only ever tie the record for lowest flight.

How many planes have crashed into the Dead Sea?

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

priznat posted:

How many planes have crashed into the Dead Sea?

Hmmm. I suddenly see a clever way of getting into the history books of aviation. Or at least the news.

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011

Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

Barnsy posted:

That's a disaster waiting to happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esIihVb-Jus

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist

This is the best low pass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOoiEbtf2w

Barnsy
Jul 22, 2013

Is it me or was he a few cm away from scraping his prop on the turf?

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Barnsy posted:

That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Can anyone find the incident report of the Viggen (I think) that did a low pass over a hilltop and actually burned a number of people who were watching with its exhaust? I read it before but lost it.

A Melted Tarp
Nov 12, 2013

At the date

Phanatic posted:

Can anyone find the incident report of the Viggen (I think) that did a low pass over a hilltop and actually burned a number of people who were watching with its exhaust? I read it before but lost it.

If that's true, it owns

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.
Found a news article but somewhere at some point someone posted the actual report on what happened, and I can't find that.

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jun/21/world/fg-briefs21.5

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

Phanatic posted:

Can anyone find the incident report of the Viggen (I think) that did a low pass over a hilltop and actually burned a number of people who were watching with its exhaust? I read it before but lost it.
Accident involving a JA37 Viggen on the 20th of June 2002, at Upplands Wing/F 16, Uppsala, County [pdf]:

quote:

The pilot of P 11 (the leader) carried out a take off with a lit AB (zone 3).After rotation and retraction of the landing gear, the pilot turned to the left, after passing the intersection of the runways, and flew over the grass infield at a very low altitude towards the hill on which the visitors stood. The pilot passed over the hill under a weak climb with such an aircraft attitude that three persons in the group were seriously injured due primarily to the AB flame and pressure wave. Several persons threw themselves out of the way or attempted to take cover. A woman was thrown 15 meters from her original position.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Here's one of the many other ties for the low altitude record. Love the matter of fact narration. Impact at 3:59.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i7rVD8kRFU

marumaru
May 20, 2013




This is my fave low pass. I was trying to remember what it was called earlier when the discussion started, thanks!

Hexyflexy
Sep 2, 2011

asymptotically approaching one

I've had that happen to me, and I almost poo poo myself. Riding a bike along a road outside a field as a younger hexyflexy, and suddenly, random hurricane out of nowhere (well that'd be the airfield I just rode past the end of). 50 foot above my head. Those things are loud, seriously loud.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


True fact: the bottom of the hull is on a single roller skate.

Colonel K
Jun 29, 2009
There's always the harvards water skiing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGHQ1pYXsHo

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless
FCLP's are always fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKccxJmEodU

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe

Alain de Cadenet is the best

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE




Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Browsing through the F-1* wikipedia pages either I'm noticing a strong bias or an incomplete story about the F-14

It sounds like the F-14 has a higher max takeoff weight + greater fuel + munitions takeoff weight than the F-18 super-variant, and was getting major avionics upgrades as recent as 2005 before Cheney killed it

Did it have to die to create a need for the F-35 or what

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Hadlock posted:

Browsing through the F-1* wikipedia pages either I'm noticing a strong bias or an incomplete story about the F-14

It sounds like the F-14 has a higher max takeoff weight + greater fuel + munitions takeoff weight than the F-18 super-variant, and was getting major avionics upgrades as recent as 2005 before Cheney killed it

Did it have to die to create a need for the F-35 or what

Its understandable to want only one type of fighter-bomber if you can at all manage it. Of course as everything armed services related, the USMC screwed that up.

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.
Weren't the Tomcats also incredibly labor-intensive to maintain?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

F-14 had absolutely hilarious maintenance requirements and costs, plus two crew instead of one, but yes, the F-14 probably was a superior fighter, by quite a few metrics.

In a perfect world, the Navy wouldn't have bungled the A-12, which would have probably meant no Super Hornet, and budget room for a fifth generation carrier fighter, instead of a multirole jack of all, master of none.

That's like third-level alt-history, though. :v:

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

If we're going alt history then the F-14 would have been replaced by the F-22.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

hobbesmaster posted:

If we're going alt history then the F-14 would have been replaced by the F-22.

It could have happened, if the NATF program didn't stink to high hell from the get-go. It was originally supposed to be a straight F-22 derivative, then as the program progressed it evolved into an entirely new aircraft with VG wings and everything, then someone smart pointed out that "hey, if we're basically building an entirely new aircraft, doesn't this mean there won't be any cost savings whatsoever?". Then the A-12 debacle happened and finally killed off NATF once and for all, probably for the best.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist

I'm suddenly struck by the term "Tactical Fighter". Like, aren't all fighters inherently tactical? Is there a such thing as a Strategic Fighter?

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Fucknag posted:

I'm suddenly struck by the term "Tactical Fighter". Like, aren't all fighters inherently tactical? Is there a such thing as a Strategic Fighter?

Ace Combat

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Fucknag posted:

I'm suddenly struck by the term "Tactical Fighter". Like, aren't all fighters inherently tactical? Is there a such thing as a Strategic Fighter?

SAC used to have fighters. I assume the term is a holdover from when a fighter didn't do everything. You had pursuit, intercept, escort, etc.

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Fucknag posted:

I'm suddenly struck by the term "Tactical Fighter". Like, aren't all fighters inherently tactical? Is there a such thing as a Strategic Fighter?

Following "strategic bomber" I'm going to guess a strategic fighter would be an interceptor. Possibly carrying a nuke. (I love how the solution to "our guidance systems are terrible" in the 50s was "oh ok just put a nuke in it")

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