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Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness
Assuming accurate physics models for a liquid like tar it really shouldn't be all that viable to pump it very far; tar is the kind of liquid that you really do want to transport in barrels.

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Retro42
Jun 27, 2011


Neruz posted:

Assuming accurate physics models for a liquid like tar it really shouldn't be all that viable to pump it very far; tar is the kind of liquid that you really do want to transport in barrels.

True, my playing around with modding it was more an exercise in seeing what was possible. It IS completely possible to make a liquid that is almost impossible to transport by pipe if you drop that value lower.

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness
The fact that you need an entire assembler to barrel\unbarrel liquids is really excessive too; would make more sense if there was a specialized 'barrel tap' that you could build relatively cheaply and tape to the end of any pipe to put empty barrels in and get full barrels out. Requiring me to make and run power to an assembler just to put a hose in a barrel and fill it up with liquid is too much.

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

Neruz posted:

The fact that you need an entire assembler to barrel\unbarrel liquids is really excessive too; would make more sense if there was a specialized 'barrel tap' that you could build relatively cheaply and tape to the end of any pipe to put empty barrels in and get full barrels out. Requiring me to make and run power to an assembler just to put a hose in a barrel and fill it up with liquid is too much.

That's logical if you're doing it by hand. But an assembler represents the idea of a device that can swap in a barrel, properly fill it to to the brim, cap it, and be ready for the next barrel.

Retro42
Jun 27, 2011


Neruz posted:

The fact that you need an entire assembler to barrel\unbarrel liquids is really excessive too; would make more sense if there was a specialized 'barrel tap' that you could build relatively cheaply and tape to the end of any pipe to put empty barrels in and get full barrels out. Requiring me to make and run power to an assembler just to put a hose in a barrel and fill it up with liquid is too much.

Honestly it could be done fairly quick and dirty. Just make a mini assembler(maybe using the small pump model?) with a new recipe class and link all the barrel fill stuff to it.

Loren1350
Mar 30, 2007
Yeah, I know which values to gently caress around with, it's the actual loving around I have been avoiding.

and the Liquid Stations mod adds barreling for all the vanilla fluids and, IIRC, adds a small specialized machine (1x1) just for barreling/unbarreling.

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness

ikanreed posted:

That's logical if you're doing it by hand. But an assembler represents the idea of a device that can swap in a barrel, properly fill it to to the brim, cap it, and be ready for the next barrel.

I can build a conveyor belt that runs forever with no power input out of nothing but some metal plates and gears :colbert:

Shintaro posted:

and the Liquid Stations mod adds barreling for all the vanilla fluids and, IIRC, adds a small specialized machine (1x1) just for barreling/unbarreling.

That would make using barrels to transport things over long distances a lot more attractive.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
Really there should just be liquid train cars, and I think the devs have said it's on the roadmap. Barreling and unbarreling oil is a fun intellectual exercise, but nobody moves oil like that.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house i've done pretty well for myself.
While we’re at it, why do train cars hold the same amount as man‐sized wooden chests?

Retro42
Jun 27, 2011


FISHMANPET posted:

Really there should just be liquid train cars, and I think the devs have said it's on the roadmap. Barreling and unbarreling oil is a fun intellectual exercise, but nobody moves oil like that.

I've found that modding up the stack_size for crude oil barrels goes a long way. 10 barrels per stack just isn't profitable no matter how you shake it out.

25 or 50 OTOH...

Edit:

Just for the sake of discussion here's my wishlist of tweaks that would "fix" oil/liquids.

*Slower moving oil in pipes
*25+ barrels per stack
*large footprint barreling-only building
*small footprint unbarreling/liquid storage buildings.

Overall more focus on large scale drilling/refining operations with the capability to use barrels as ship-in resources for production lines. Slower moving oil in pipes would make long distance pipelines less feasible and make alternate methods of transport more appealing. You'd still be able to move oil long distance with pumps though.

Retro42 fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Dec 3, 2014

Fans
Jun 27, 2013

A reptile dysfunction
Having just completed the train scenario I realize I am an idiot. I was meant to fix the train DURING the scenario, not wait for it to tell me to go fix it and just using conveyer belts to nearby deposits until I complete the mission without ever actually learning how to train.

Please all gather round and look at the idiot king.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Fans posted:

Having just completed the train scenario I realize I am an idiot. I was meant to fix the train DURING the scenario, not wait for it to tell me to go fix it and just using conveyer belts to nearby deposits until I complete the mission without ever actually learning how to train.

Please all gather round and look at the idiot king.

Nobody does the train scenario well. Everyone's first time is a goddamn disgrace, it's just one of those rites of passage to becoming a Factoriologist

oxbrain
Aug 18, 2005

Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.
I spent the whole time manually driving the train back and forth because I couldn't figure out how to make it switch directions.

gently caress the mission after that. I gave up after my row of 20 turrets fell like a paper wall.

Gibbo
Sep 13, 2008

"yes James. Remove that from my presence. It... Offends me" *sips overpriced wine*
What value do the biters/spitters use to determine targets? Would it be possible to mod a sort of Beacon device in the vein of Starship Troopers/Starcraft/every sci-fi with bug aliens ever?

A sort of high powered emitter to set up as a target and then defend.


Or is it still just "Set up a radar station"

Splode
Jun 18, 2013

put some clothes on you little freak
I had to watch some massive dork's youtube video to work out how to get the trains to run between stations.

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness

Gibbo posted:

What value do the biters/spitters use to determine targets? Would it be possible to mod a sort of Beacon device in the vein of Starship Troopers/Starcraft/every sci-fi with bug aliens ever?

A sort of high powered emitter to set up as a target and then defend.


Or is it still just "Set up a radar station"

You do know what radar is right? :v:

Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013

Let's go explorin' little dude!
Not to mention it's one of the highest consumers of your power. :v:

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep




New version is up! One gamebreaking bug has been found already. They're usually quick at fixing those, so I'd expect 0.11.5 tomorrow. It is an odd crash when holding a splitter and interacting with a belt.

http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7074

quote:

So the batch of fixes is finally here.
Lots of the causes of multiplayer desynchronisations have been detected and fixed, so the multiplayer stability should be much better, but there are certainly other bugs waiting to be found, oh and we still have 113 bugs reports on our forums as well. But the most dangerous problems should be fixed, let's hope we didn't break too many things by doing that.

Notes:
The mac release is delayed a bit

Features
Added preferred screen option in the graphics option. (not in linux)

Graphics
Upgraded the player running animation.

Bugfixes
Fixed 4 different problems in path finding that created desync errors.
Fixed desync problems related to the logistic network.
Fixed desync problems that would arise when something happens near the edge of the map.
Fixed desync problems that would arise when using the teleport method in the level/mod scripts.
Fixed desync problems related to working sounds near the edge of the generated map.
Fixed desync problems related to viewing edge of the map.
Fixed desync problems related to usage of furnace with fluids (can happen only with mods).
Fixed desync problems related to removing electric poles connected with circuit network.
Fixed desync problems related to having damaged items in the inventory.
Fixed that the circuit network wasn't cleared when using LuaInventory::clear on inventory of chest connected to circuit network.
Fixed crash when roboport without energy was destroyed and rebuilt by construction robot.
Fixed crash when showing the attacked alert details that contained alert of other player being damaged.
Multiple players can connect to the MP game at the same time.
Fixed problems with locale names containing dash (for example zh-CN).
Fixed case sensitivity problem with Chinese font on linux.
Fixed freeze when closing Assembler's gui with tool-tip (viewtopic.php?t=6793).
Loading MP game in SP tries to retain player's original identity (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6744).
Fixed swapping gun turret ammo types (viewtopic.php?t=6707)
Fixed that the information about which mod crated (or modified) the item/entity/recipe/technology was missing.
Fixed that the cargo wagon didn't have resistances.
Fixed that alert sounds weren't working properly (again).
Fixed adding a new train station to a schedule of a train if isn't selected destination like first
(viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6079).
Fixed replays for the singleplayer.
Fixed that LuaEntity::getcircuitcondition crashed the game for entities with non-zero condition, but no connection to the circuit network.
Fixed the infinite furnace rebuilding bug (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6873)
When there is invalid control sequence in the translation, instead of closing Factorio when it id displayed, the
text just contains the error message.
Fixed that the game removed all the gui created by mod automatically on game load.
Now it removes just gui of mods that were removed as before.
Fixed that rail over gate (or the other way around), wasn't buildable as part of the blueprint, as the first one
built removed the ghost of the second one.
Fixed that the exe file in the zip package was missing the factorio icon.
Fixed that the menu in map editor was not responsible after clicking exit and cancel.
Fixed that construction robots didn't have the working sounds.
Fixed possible crashes and logistic/circuit network inconsistances related to removal of items in inventories
that have smaller size due to different mod configuration.
Fixed that changing terrain from script (used by some mods that work with terrain), wasn't updated on screen until forced by zooming or
moving the screen away and back.
The sandbox scenario now doesn't have the character visible.

Balancing
Assembling machine 3 has up to 6 ingredient slots, so it can make any recipe in its category.

Scripting
Fixed that LuaEntity::getitemcount returned 6 times more for ammo turrets.
Removed write access to LuaGame::tick.
Disabled deactivating of rolling stock.
Lua debug library no longer return paths containing installation directory.

Modding
Fixed that the data-updates.lua of base mod would overwrite the created effect of mod entities by the
smoke effect. It now just adds the smoke effect to the specified effect.

Changes
Rail signal that is not dividing two rail blocks is changing colors the same way, as when it is connected to no rail
because it does nothing, more at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6936&start=10.
The standardized mod naming convention is now enforced.
Changed the preferred-screen-index config option to preferred-screen-index (spelling error fix).
Health description will no longer show full health when the entity has minor damage (and health bar is shown).

Boogalo fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Dec 5, 2014

Gibbo
Sep 13, 2008

"yes James. Remove that from my presence. It... Offends me" *sips overpriced wine*

Neruz posted:

You do know what radar is right? :v:

I get that, but even with Radars up I've had other targets attacked.

I want a full on placeable beacon. One I could drop a short ways outside of a nest site and they'd all leave the nest site and go check it out and you could gently caress poo poo up while they're gone instead of just walking turrets in.

dipwood
Feb 22, 2004

rouge means red in french

quote:

Multiple players can connect to the MP game at the same time.

Well, this would explain a few nights ago.

Also, is there some way to disable replays? I hear that makes map transfers quicker.

Michaellaneous
Oct 30, 2013

Is there still the issue that after some playing time, joining a server again is impossible because it takes half an hour to download the map?

Dunno-Lars
Apr 7, 2011
:norway:

:iiam:



quote:

Balancing
Assembling machine 3 has up to 6 ingredient slots, so it can make any recipe in its category.

Finally the thread title is true, you can now automate everything! Up until now, you had to craft refineries yourself due to using 5 ingredients. Not any more!

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep




0.11.5 is up! No external link yet.

quote:

Bugfixes
Fixed the faulty connection logic for splitter preview.
Fixed the crashes when doing certain actions in the sandbox mode.
Added sanity check for the coordinates of chunk creation, chunks are limited to position of 1000000.
Fixed crash in map editor when building lab.
Fixed "start level" button of transport belt madness.

My belt hell map is still desyncing :negative:

Boogalo fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Dec 5, 2014

Fans
Jun 27, 2013

A reptile dysfunction
My current game was going fine until all of a sudden the Inserters forgot how to pick things up and just wobble about uselessly occasionally manage to grab something. It's a bit broke.

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010

Fans posted:

My current game was going fine until all of a sudden the Inserters forgot how to pick things up and just wobble about uselessly occasionally manage to grab something. It's a bit broke.

Do you have yellow or red inserters trying to pick things up off express belts? because the poor babby inserters can't keep up with express belts, get some fast inserters in there.

Fans
Jun 27, 2013

A reptile dysfunction

senae posted:

Do you have yellow or red inserters trying to pick things up off express belts? because the poor babby inserters can't keep up with express belts, get some fast inserters in there.

I've just realized it's because I'm really low on power. My bad. MORE STEAM POWER!

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


So am I crazy or did we get a bunch of new experimental versions the other day.

Loren1350
Mar 30, 2007
Sometimes when you fix a bunch of bugs, you're so relieved about them you develop a blind spot to a few more you expose that you don't notice until you triumphantly put your fixes to the public. Don't know if that happened here, but it is a thing.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
My group played a few games at 11.13 until blue science, upgraded to 11.14 and it was unplayable, then upgraded to 11.15 and now it's perfect, we're on the way to a Rocket Defense, with bugs set to High/High/High. It's like starship troopers out here.

Nick Esasky
Nov 10, 2009
so, couple of really dumb questions here:

1)is there any charts somewhere demonstrating, say, how many stone furnaces a single coal/iron/copper mine can support at once?

2) Any particular way to get an inserter to alternate which items it pulls out of a single chest so i can have my red science line consistently running properly?

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


So any other multiplayer attempts I can get in on?

Ineptitude
Mar 2, 2010

Heed my words and become a master of the Heart (of Thorns).

Nick Esasky posted:

so, couple of really dumb questions here:

1)is there any charts somewhere demonstrating, say, how many stone furnaces a single coal/iron/copper mine can support at once?


1 mine = 2 furnaces

quote:

2) Any particular way to get an inserter to alternate which items it pulls out of a single chest so i can have my red science line consistently running properly?

Hard to answer this without seeing a screenshot on how you have set up your supply chain. In general you could use smart inserters, but you would need 2 of them.

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep




Desyncs halted our multiplayer progress so I've been playing the map in single.

Belt hell status: Beltier! More belts along with module and capsule production.



I still don't understand how my friend fit chem in that little space.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
Yeah, I'd love to know about some groups doing multiplayer so I could find some folks to play with, especially if I could just drop in.

I'm not a very good player :sigh:

dipwood
Feb 22, 2004

rouge means red in french
Join the goontorio steam group, add people as friends from the people in there, and message us. I don't really hang out in steam chats but if someone schedules a game with me I'd be up for it.

Michaellaneous
Oct 30, 2013

Did the new version fix the issues with the loading time on joining a server that was up for a while? The half hour map download thing?

Dunno-Lars
Apr 7, 2011
:norway:

:iiam:



Nick Esasky posted:

so, couple of really dumb questions here:

1)is there any charts somewhere demonstrating, say, how many stone furnaces a single coal/iron/copper mine can support at once?

2) Any particular way to get an inserter to alternate which items it pulls out of a single chest so i can have my red science line consistently running properly?

1 burner miner to 1 normal furnace.

1 electric miner to 2 normal furnace.

2 burner miner to 1 steel or electric furnace.

1 electric miner to 1 steel or electric furnace.

Then I think it's one to one on iron to steel, but I'm not 100% sure.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Dunno-Lars posted:

Then I think it's one to one on iron to steel, but I'm not 100% sure.

Yes

Nick Esasky posted:

2) Any particular way to get an inserter to alternate which items it pulls out of a single chest so i can have my red science line consistently running properly?

Some logic-wizard set up a system that put all 4 BlueSci items on a belt in sequential order, and sent nothing if something was missing. I went looking when you first posted, but I couldn't find it again.

Loren1350
Mar 30, 2007

Dunno-Lars posted:

1 burner miner to 1 normal furnace.

1 electric miner to 2 normal furnace.

2 burner miner to 1 steel or electric furnace.

1 electric miner to 1 steel or electric furnace.

Then I think it's one to one on iron to steel, but I'm not 100% sure.

If you want to get :spergin:

Time to mine:

Stone: burner 2.72 s, electric 1.90 s
Metal: burner 3.57 s, electric 1.54 s

Time to smelt:
Stone furnace 3.5 s, steel/electric 1.75 s

These numbers, while rounded, are still way more precise than ever likely to matter, given limited space and inserter speed.

Steel takes 5 times as long to make than iron, so as long as you're using the same furnace type it's 1-to-1. If for some weird reason you're mixing stone with others, it'd be 2 stone to 1 other, whichever way.

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Dunno-Lars
Apr 7, 2011
:norway:

:iiam:



Shintaro posted:

If you want to get :spergin:

Time to mine:

Stone: burner 2.72 s, electric 1.90 s
Metal: burner 3.57 s, electric 1.54 s

Time to smelt:
Stone furnace 3.5 s, steel/electric 1.75 s

These numbers, while rounded, are still way more precise than ever likely to matter, given limited space and inserter speed.

Steel takes 5 times as long to make than iron, so as long as you're using the same furnace type it's 1-to-1. If for some weird reason you're mixing stone with others, it'd be 2 stone to 1 other, whichever way.

I like :spergin:

Why do stone go from faster on the burner drill to slower on the electric?

With the numbers not quite rounded, that only matters if you are running hundreds of furnaces, right? If it's stone, you will get a stone or two at the end of a belt, for metals, the last furnace might be out of work for a second. Unless you flood the place with way to much ore, and way to many furnaces, and spend thousands of ores per second. Which you will once you grow a big enough factory!

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