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Bularin posted:Tell that to the survivors of Ibleam. These sanctimonious fuckheads telling us they don't like it isn't the same as "can't." Hear, hear. I can't see B doing anything other than biting us in the rear end in the future, for exactly the reasons you outlined. It's also an incredibly boring choice for the already glacial pace of this game. As far as in-world considerations go, it's worth noting that just because these creatures are omniscient doesn't mean that their conclusions are correct. What I'm reading here is that they have full access to all the information in the entire world, can see and know the entire picture at once- but that doesn't mean that they have the processing power to come up with infallibly reasoned judgements based on their knowledge, as their rather short-sighted agenda proves. In other words, the idea that humans should be forever doomed to living short, brutal lives defined by ignorance and terror just because that seems 'meaningful' to the subjective instincts of more powerful beings does not fly with me. Let's be appropriately respectful, but gently caress kowtowing to these guys and assuming that they know best for us.
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Dec 3, 2014 07:59
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:30 |
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I've voted to learn to make cool poo poo with smithing several times now. Most of our balls are financially secure enough to live comfortably on what they've made for a while. I wouldn't mind putting the boys on half-time to learn a skill or follow through on a project (mining, archery, Zepath civil poo poo). There's more to life than killing monsters, and I think we should show our Balls that this is the case! Maybe the more level headed of them will go in with us on something besides the murder economy. I'm imagining hundreds of our men clad in armor on par with what we have now, patrolling the countryside on well made roads, protecting the outlying farms and mines that Zepath has never had but could really use.
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Dec 3, 2014 07:59
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A Darker Porpoise posted:♪Too many cooks!♪ Loool Anyway, #teamtruth vote* is A because I don't think we can live up to B, and even if we could I don't think that's for the best. I don't like their idea of balance, I'm pretty sure it'd have seen Ibleam destroyed. We can be super powerful and use it for meaningful/non-destructive (in every sense) purposes and I think we have an obligation to? Also, gently caress whomever is watching. We are not an abomination, we are not a slave, we do not need to be contained. Whatever the gently caress we are we were put here on the El-green planet to do some loving good. but also Ishamal please keep teaching us  disclaimer: *I can vote for #teamtruth because I am it's only member
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Dec 3, 2014 08:00
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Wait, screw smithing and cooking, Enkidel should learn the highest craft of all: pottery.
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Dec 3, 2014 08:00
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ALogo posted:Wait, screw smithing and cooking, Enkidel should learn the highest craft of all: pottery. voting to quit zepath and go be a goat herd in honour of Azzazel
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Dec 3, 2014 08:01
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ALogo posted:Wait, screw smithing and cooking, Enkidel should learn the highest craft of all: pottery. Clay golems 
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Dec 3, 2014 08:01
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ALogo posted:Wait, screw smithing and cooking, Enkidel should learn the highest craft of all: pottery. 
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Dec 3, 2014 08:03
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Ralith posted:Stop ruining the game with your railroading, team boring! no, you see I'm going to be really mad and bitch constantly because most people don't agree with me, and I can't stand the idea of people being WRONG about an internet CYOA game
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Dec 3, 2014 08:10
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bonus hole boy posted:no, you see I'm going to be really mad and bitch constantly because most people don't agree with me, and I can't stand the idea of people being WRONG about an internet CYOA game But there are only so many threads you can have here in the game room bonus hole boy. Where ever could they find the room to make a new thread of their own liking?
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Dec 3, 2014 08:13
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B
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Dec 3, 2014 08:16
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Ralith posted:I also voted for using notmagic on the assumption that Ish was only concerned that we might bottom out and go full hunger. Knowing the true state of affairs makes B an easy and obvious decision. Yeah that's what I thought as well. The revelation that our dream was actually a rip in time/space because of unleashed power has troubling implications. What if arrow-time is the same deal and is actually stopping time across the universe? We don't know, but we do know it is causing problems. I guess I mostly consider B as a giving up of arrow time and ball trance and similar abilities. And that's it. Everything else continues as normal. We can still learn and grow, just no time-space-psychic manipulations. I get that people are already frustrated as hell with Ish and are voting A out of spite but its not like we can't reneg on this promise if we find out its all bullshit and we've got kickass untapped super powers with no side effects. But I'm not going to vote to just walk away and hope for that.
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Dec 3, 2014 08:20
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Ralith posted:Stop ruining the game with your railroading, team boring! That makes no sense, Lefkandi is the least boring NPC in the whole game.
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Dec 3, 2014 08:28
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B Ask: "I have seemingly innate knowledge of when certain places are, in a sense, owned. Are these places under someone's or something's protection?" "If any of you happen to see Asahel or Azz could you tell them I said 'thanks'?" Diog, Is this place "owned"? My ideas for what to do afterwards: Free our cook and see about either freeing or giving some pay to our other slaves. Train with Ish, the club, and the bow, but timeskip liberally until a few years after our kids' manhood trials. Then go on a journey to up to Seir then east to the Kadmonim Grasslands or, if our cook wants to go home, to Baitel and the grasslands beyond then back home via Seir. In order to prepare for the coming storm we need to get a broader understanding of the world and what's happening in it.
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Dec 3, 2014 08:32
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While these guys are handy, we should thank them for their patience with us throughout our lives, and for their wisdom concerning the treatment of men. Some of us, myself included, don't think these guys are doing quite the right thing with all their power. However, they could be doing far, far worse. Furthermore, disregarding whether you think they're actually justified in their fears or not, the amount of leeway, second chances, and forgiveness they've given us despite what they fear we might become is staggering. Even if they're completely wrong about everything, in their own view they're taking immense risks for our sake without hesitating.ALogo posted:That makes no sense, Lefkandi is the least boring NPC in the whole game. Disargeria posted:Yeah that's what I thought as well. The revelation that our dream was actually a rip in time/space because of unleashed power has troubling implications. What if arrow-time is the same deal and is actually stopping time across the universe? We don't know, but we do know it is causing problems. 
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Dec 3, 2014 08:35
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B, gearing everything towards learning laser arrows.
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Dec 3, 2014 08:43
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B
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Dec 3, 2014 08:44
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By the way, Ark, where's your wife up to? I wanna hear her opinions on all this.
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Dec 3, 2014 08:46
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It's the night before our wedding all over again. We're being given a choice in the same way telling someone "Give me all your money, or I'm going to break into your house and steal all of your money." Is a choice.  : "Heh, well it isn't OUR fault. You CHOSE to hand over all your cash, no point being mad about it now."They can't outright force us, so instead they give us a "choice" that's nothing but a Catch 22. Either we let Ishamal put a collar on us, or Animal Control just happens to get an anonymous tip about us running loose around the neighborhood without any tags. That way, they get what they want without the pesky need to feel guilty over strong arming us into it. I'd almost bet money that if they gave us a night to sleep on our choices, we'd have another "EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING IS DEAD AND IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT BECAUSE REASONS" Dream.
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Dec 3, 2014 08:59
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the_steve posted:It's the night before our wedding all over again. It's not quite like that, you're implying some type of protection racket, when it's more like an insurance salesman in hurricaine alley. Yeah he's upped prices but it's HURRICAINE ALLEY.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:04
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Hey, just had a thought. Ask the little Melachim "Hey, so that was you I was chasing after back on the day of the pyre? You run pretty good, dude." the_steve posted:They can't outright force us, so instead they give us a "choice" that's nothing but a Catch 22. Either we let Ishamal put a collar on us, or Animal Control just happens to get an anonymous tip about us running loose around the neighborhood without any tags. That way, they get what they want without the pesky need to feel guilty over strong arming us into it. The analogy isn't a bad one, but only if you mentioned that the animal that needs collaring is a tiger that's already gnawed on a few people when it thought its handler wasn't looking. At which point, offering any choice at all DOES seems like a remarkable degree of forbearance as opposed to just stomping in with a giant dart gun going "OK TIME FOR EUTHANASIA!"
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Dec 3, 2014 09:14
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No, I think Protection Racket is the more apt of the two. "Well, you can either sign on with us and accept these terms, and we'll pass on the message that everything is cool. Or, you're free to walk out the door here, but we can't guarantee that maybe someone beyond our jurisdiction is watching." On a different note, I'm tickled that people are just assuming the A voters are doing it out of spite. Ok, maybe some of us are, but for the most part, I think we're choosing A because we're choosing freedom to make our own decisions, and use our own judgement to not kill everything. I'd just as much accuse some B voters of being the spiteful ones. There's a common chorus of "Enkidel is too stupid to be trusted to make his own decisions." Except, Enkidel is Goons. So basically, what I'm hearing is "Enkidel keeps doing things I voted against! He's obviously an out of control moron and NEEDS to have limitations on his life! Please have Enkidel apologize to everyone for constantly loving up by voting wrong!" Edit: Tomn posted:The analogy isn't a bad one, but only if you mentioned that the animal that needs collaring is a tiger that's already gnawed on a few people when it thought its handler wasn't looking. At which point, offering any choice at all DOES seems like a remarkable degree of forbearance as opposed to just stomping in with a giant dart gun going "OK TIME FOR EUTHANASIA!" Except we haven't mauled anyone. At worst, we've scratched the metaphysical furniture a few times. And, instead of spritzing us with the spray bottle when we did it, Ishamal instead waits a few years then neuters us. the_steve fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 09:18
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Pladdicus posted:I don't like their idea of balance l actually really like their concept of balance, because it's not some bullshit balance between good and evil, or light and dark, or even order and chaos. It's the balance between two good things: Improving people's lives and letting people think for themselves. It's a hard problem, which derives from the situation (loving people, wanting the best for people), and not an arbitrary mandate about what the universe must contain.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:32
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 I wanna talk to Azz.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:33
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B
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Dec 3, 2014 09:34
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B - I've always liked Ishamal.  I get why you guys are frustrated with him, but eh, that's the game!I wonder is the fire-shout Uriah does is upsetting to balance.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:36
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B
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Dec 3, 2014 09:36
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Nettle Soup posted:I wonder is the fire-shout Uriah does is upsetting to balance. Probably not. Near as I can tell, Enkidel is the only one capable of doing any wrong. Uriah could be using Arrow Time to open his beer, and it'd be fine, but if we so much as take too long to nock an arrow, we're throwing the world over the edge into eternal chaos.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:40
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Nettle Soup posted:B - I've always liked Ishamal. Probably not since that's an ordinary Mighty Man thing he's just extra good at. The issue isn't even the abilities themselves; it's not like casting Arrow Time is damaging the universe's fabric or weakening a barrier that keeps eldritch horrors out. Ishamal said that one of the options is to wander off into the wilderness and just go away forever, with no limitation on such abilities. Enkidel could cast Arrow Time a hundred times a day and master hitting the bullseye on a target at ever-increasing distances, and that's apparently ok. The issue is that Enkidel lives in a realm of other people who are influenced by him, and he will inevitably use his abilities to help or harm them in increasingly impressive and powerful ways. We obviously haven't been informed of the exact situation but it seems like there's some grand plan going on with the Melachim watching carefully, and if Enkidel starts manifesting all sorts of incredible feats he'll start doing things he thinks is the right thing to do, turn it all to poo poo one way or another, and either the world will be destroyed or he will be destroyed by the Magic Police, or both.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:46
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the_steve posted:No, I think Protection Racket is the more apt of the two. Remember that time we voted to stop breathing and almost ate our dog? Oh noooo we can't do magic. Literally everyone with any amount of authority in our lives who wasn't a cannibal advised us or made us promise to not do magic until we know what we're doing. Hell, I'd bet Shushem would tell us not to do magic until we're ready. MAYBE THERE'S A GOOD REASON FOR THIS!?!?!?!? paragon1 fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 09:47
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the_steve posted:On a different note, I'm tickled that people are just assuming the A voters are doing it out of spite. Ok, maybe some of us are, but for the most part, I think we're choosing A because we're choosing freedom to make our own decisions, and use our own judgement to not kill everything. You know, I'm honestly kinda curious about something: Do you feel that it is safe to use our powers? Do you feel that using our powers is always going to lead to good, and will have no negative side effects either now or down the line, ever? That we know enough about our abilities to be able to confidently predict exactly how much trouble they will cause? That it's not causing any sort of screwy metaphysical weirdness which we're not aware of? Because that's literally all that B is voting to limit - the use of our powers. That's it. Nothing else. It's not even saying "No powers, ever" - it's saying "No powers that Ishamal hasn't taught," which is to say that if he teaches us the use of other powers, THOSE we can use. Not only is that the only limit being placed on us, it's a limit we already agreed to once in the past and which we failed to adhere to. If you're voting A because you want the freedom to make our own decisions, you're straight-up telling the Melachim and Ishamal that they're wrong about the potentially dangerous side effects of our powers. Because clearly our uneducated asses know better than they do. We would be in the position of a illiterate redneck telling a bunch of nuclear engineers "Well, I ain't mebbe got that thar fancy book-learnin' you got, but I knows a good thing when I sees one and I ain't see no reason why you boys got the right to stop me usin' the nu-klee-ar reactor I inherited howsomeever I sees fit. Radiation poisoning? Environmental damage? Pshaw! I ain't see nothin' bad happen from usin' it, y'all just tryin' to scare me into kowtowin' to the Federales! Don't you go tellin' me what I can and can't do with mah property!" Even if Ishamal and the Melachim are being more cautious than they need to be (and they very well might, I'd agree), does it really seem like the best of decisions to go traipsing about on the edge of a highly dangerous unknown without a map or a guide? Or do you simply think that our powers aren't actually as dangerous as they say and that the Melachim are simply trying to control us and keep us down for their own nefarious ends?
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Dec 3, 2014 09:48
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Anyone here on team hermit? e: B voters are just statists
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Dec 3, 2014 09:50
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Tomn posted:We would be in the position of a illiterate redneck telling a bunch of nuclear engineers "Well, I ain't mebbe got that thar fancy book-learnin' you got, but I knows a good thing when I sees one and I ain't see no reason why you boys got the right to stop me usin' the nu-klee-ar reactor I inherited howsomeever I sees fit. Radiation poisoning? Environmental damage? Pshaw! I ain't see nothin' bad happen from usin' it, y'all just tryin' to scare me into kowtowin' to the Federales! Don't you go tellin' me what I can and can't do with mah property!" In this situation they're not even telling us to get rid of the reactor, we can keep it for heating and electricity, just don't use the fuel rods for deer hunting.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:55
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Basscop posted:Anyone here on team hermit? You using the anarchist definition, or the libertarian one?
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Dec 3, 2014 09:55
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paragon1 posted:You using the anarchist definition, or the libertarian one? The anarchist one. I'm founding team anarchist hermit.
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Dec 3, 2014 10:03
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Im very doubtful that I will be able to stop myself from using powers if doing so might actually save a loves one. I'm inclined to vote B. we're not getting anywhere experimenting on our own anyway. Ball trance is good. But it's also weird. I really do not like blacking out during a fight. Arrow time is not as good. With enough training it should barely be needed. C Not exactly a lie. But I'm promising knowing that I will break it if a situation warrants it. ------------ Anyway. Setting up a mining camp and protecting it ourselves might be possible now. Make money. Improve Zepath subtly. I wish we had asked about the souls of people dissipating or why we can talk to them and stuff.
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Dec 3, 2014 10:05
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How does Snarls fit in with us being generally OP for the world?FoxTerrier posted:Slightly off topic, but does anyone else find it really, really funny that even the guardians of Zepath think the dudes in the interior are assholes?  the_steve posted:But let's break it down meta. Ishamal is one person.
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Dec 3, 2014 10:06
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Shadeoses posted:Probably not since that's an ordinary Mighty Man thing he's just extra good at. Essentially this is as if Hera, Hephaestus and Athena decided to interfere in how Prometheus grew up in the hopes that he'll become their tame dog and not steal fire for men
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Dec 3, 2014 10:08
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I'm not saying that we'll 100% use our powers with no negative outcomes, because that's impossible for anyone to promise. I'm saying we can be selective enough in the usage of our powers that we can be trusted with the little hammer that breaks our "In Case of Emergency" glass, without needing to let Ishamal keep it in a sealed vault and only let us look at it on alternating Tuesdays if we're good. Had we adhered to No Magic Except the Cantrips Ishamal Taught Us, we'd have died in Ibleam. Us, Snarls, Danal, the Balls, and thousands of civilians would be dead or enslaved because we didn't use Ball Trance. We used Arrow Time for a selfish reason when we killed the Battle Toad. At the time, I'd wager most of us thought nothing of that, at least until now. Now, we know that's the sort of thing that sends red flags to the mods. Not necessarily because it harms us, but because it tells them that we're using hacks. Armed with this information, I'm willing to put faith in us that we would avoid using Arrow Time on future monster hunts, and would only use it for Good, rather than Profit or Glory. That's what I'm saying when I vote A. As to the Nuclear Plant analogy, we're uneducated but we aren't stupid. If those stuck up engineers would let us read the loving owners manual, we'd be able to do right by it, but every time we ask to look at it, we get "Noooo! You'll just use it to enrich uranium and build nukes because you're reckless and stupid!" I've said before that we obviously don't have access to the raw data that Ishamal and the Council of 3 do, but we DO have an advantage in that with all of their information, they only have their own perspective and personal biases to make decisions with it. With Enkidel, we have dozens of simultaneous perspectives to analyze and debate any given piece of data. Everyone brings their own perspectives and biases, and we're able to distill it down into a good response. So no, we don't "know" better, but if given the information, we can more thoroughly digest it and come up with viewpoints that the others may not consider. the_steve fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 10:11
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Had a good hard think about this and I'm in favor of H. I love Ishamal, Naomi, Tudiya, Danal, Zeb, Paebal, and all these other characters, but the longer we stay the more problems we will cause. It's time to leave the company of men behind. I am in favor of Asking for long enough to say goodbye before we do so, however. Edit: Voting H makes me very sad, but it is the only option I can support. I would love to support B, but goons would break the promise. Guaranteed. At least, if H wins, Bularin will never have to see Ruth again. unimportantguy fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 10:12
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:30 |
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Basscop posted:Anyone here on team hermit? I'd be okay with hermitting after the wife dies. And we learn some crafts so we can build a kickass hermit hut.
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Dec 3, 2014 10:13
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