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Unormal posted:Well, since it's not using an actual console, strictly speaking it is actually just a tile set. Just one you don't like. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > The Hell Do Words Mean (the roguelike related word definitions thread) Personally, my feeling on ASCII is weird; I vastly prefer tilesets, but I'll play ASCII if I like the game enough. But it feels an awful lot like playing, well... a 30+ year old game. Which is why ASCII was originally a thing. I'm not a big graphics whore, but below a certain level it does bother me some. SageAcrin fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 18:18
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WHAT IS A ROGUELIKE? WHAT IS A TILESET? THE WORLD DEMANDS ANSWERS TO THESE STIRRING QUESTIONS!
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I have a lot more practice quickly identifying and differentiating letters than I do pictures that some nerd drew of kobolds, goblins, orcs, etc. Tilesets that are just static images do nothing for me. There's other cool stuff you can do with tiles to make them nice though, like crawl showing equipped gear on monster tiles. I still find ascii to be the better interface there but it is a real trade-off. Running in a terminal is nice but not necessary, brogue has particularly beautiful ascii if you run outside a terminal, I'd much rather play any roguelike in something like that than drawn pictures of monsters.
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Dec 2, 2014 18:27
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I prefer tiles because trying to read white/colors on black gives me a migraine after a while.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:19
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I'm generally good with ASCII but a roguelike has to be just about flat out amazing and perfect in every way for me retrain myself on what a brown 'f' is. So it's pretty much Brogue for a good while.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:38
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Shark Tower posted:I prefer tiles because trying to read white/colors on black gives me a migraine after a while. FYI, I added a low-contrast mode in the latest (beta) version of CoQ for someone for whom this was literally true, it makes the black background a low-contrast blue-grey. 
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Dec 2, 2014 19:54
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Jordan7hm posted:My favorite is Cardinal Quest. Hoplite is really good too, though a bit easy. You gotta play Hoplite as an atheist. Skip all temples. Hardcore as gently caress, but you also need a bit of luck sometimes with the level generation. I've made it to level 16 as an atheist, but then I died. 
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Dec 2, 2014 22:17
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TOOT BOOT posted:Which still isn't a tileset. Heaven loving forbid.
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Dec 2, 2014 22:46
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SnowblindFatal posted:You gotta play Hoplite as an atheist. Skip all temples. Hardcore as gently caress, but you also need a bit of luck sometimes with the level generation. I've made it to level 16 as an atheist, but then I died. Beating all the Hoplite achievements is one of my proudest accomplishments as a gamer. A good game.
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Dec 2, 2014 23:22
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Angry Diplomat posted:I just downloaded Caves of Qud to try it for the first time. My first character, a hellish axe-wielding mass of limbs Marauder, killed a whole bunch of poo poo and then got fatally shot in the rear end with an arrow while spectacularly dismembering a dude. My second character had light manipulation and every single fire-related mutation, including spontaneous combustion. He caught fire IN THE STARTING TOWN and had to fling his blazing rear end into the watervine pits. Then he burned down a shitload of jackal dudes, including a unique, before finally being killed by an angry flaming bear (which is just about the most metal thing I can think of). Live by the flame, die by the flame.
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Dec 3, 2014 03:11
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I've necromanced some long-dormant Qud data archives. Here's some Qud lore to celebrate the occasion. Clan Karkayan Formerly one of the elder clans of true men, the children Karkayan are descendant from Karkayan called the Clay Man. He lived deep in the heart of the central Sunderlies amongst the ageless rocks, from which it was said the gods wrought him. Though the clan was counted among the true-blooded, they long held the secret of their patriarch's deific betrayal and the gift of shapeshifting bestowed upon him by the treacherous god Rorth. That secret was unveiled at the Court of Face in 24P, after which the other eight clans in their fury joined strengths, sacked the Karkayan freehold Karkanya, and wiped out the Karkayan line, though rumors persist that some of the family escaped. Clan Karkayan's sigil is a human face sculpted from stone bluff. Clan Danneskjold Boasting some of the last several centuries' fiercest warriors, Clan Danneskjold has stalked the central Sunderlies for nearly six hundred years. Their patriarch was known only as the hunter Danneskjold, the most ferocious warrior to have ever lived. As the story goes, the great clans heard the tale of a voracious warrior squatting in the comb-caves in the heart of the Sunderlies. Each clan sent their strongest man to best in single combat the beast-hunter who called himself Danneskjold. The hunter fought and slew each man in turn. As the last lay dying, he turned to the hunter and asked which of the gods had taught him to fight with such ferocity. The hunter replied, "None. My master Danneskjold taught me. I am his servant, but a tenth the man he is." Clan Danneskjold's sigil is a pair of crossed ashen mauls on a blood red field. Ruin of House Isner The seven lords of House Isner feasted on boar gut and swilled wine from gilded cups in the ivy-strewn halls of their hold. They spared no concern for temperance, for the coffers of their house had swelled with gardeners' gold amassed through the sale of water drawn from the lords' wells. But as the gluttonous barons counted seven amongst their clan, so had become numbered their days of debauchery when the son of a beggared gardener swore a vengeful oath in the name of his father against the house of Isner. The penniless boy beseeched a gunsmith of great repute to craft for him a pistol of the most exquisite artistry with which he could be sure to vanquish the seven lords, and in return the boy promised to the smith the spoils of the battle. The smith, who in the hazel eyes of the boy beheld the spirit of vengeance, agreed. And so the boy, armed with the masterwork pistol, cast open the doors of the Hall of Isner with a fury that shook their iron hinges and seized upon the supping lords. Before any of them had yet to set down their gilded cups, the boy unholstered the pistol and fanning the hammer shot dead six of the sons of Isner. The last lord rejoiced at his fortune and reached for his hip from where he would sling a pistol of his own at the spent boy. But as his crooked finger freed his holster's strap, the boy shot the lord between the eyes, for the smith had crafted for the boy a pistol with seven chambers and seven slugs. Such it was that on this day the house of Isner fell.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:05
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Last Word has 8 rounds 
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Dec 3, 2014 05:16
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victrix posted:Last Word has 8 rounds Man, that game has a ruined and sand-buried city-arcology called Freehold. 
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Dec 3, 2014 05:23
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Is danneskjold a specific reference to ayn rand's pirate ubermensch or mere coincidence?
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Dec 3, 2014 05:30
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Hi all, there is a #roguelikes on irc.synirc.com if anyone wants to come talk about your favorite ways to die in video games  We're setting up a community victory sheet so you can brag about your wins and (potentially) help people with newbie questions when they realize you beat the game they like. As the channel grows I'd like to introduce things like contests, but we need more people to make stuff like that possible, so come on in. Everyone is welcome regardless of experience level.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:31
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Unormal posted:FYI, I added a low-contrast mode in the latest (beta) version of CoQ for someone for whom this was literally true, it makes the black background a low-contrast blue-grey. Well sir, I might just have to check out CoQ now.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:37
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hand of luke posted:Live by the flame, die by the flame. I made a really really successful quad-axe marauder and was slaughtering absolutely everything. Got to level 12 or 13, completed the first few quests, reached the weird enclave thing pretty easily. Dude seemed unstoppable. Then I went to Golgotha. gently caress Golgotha. e: in fairness though, it really is a pretty awesome area, for all its horribleness. Scrambling desperately through it and discovering what lay at the bottom was probably the coolest and scariest experience I've ever had in a roguelike. That poo poo makes Dungeon Crawl's Vaults: 5 look like a birthday party. So I guess I'm still saying gently caress Golgotha, but I'm saying it in a good way. Like, a fearfully reverent way. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 07:05
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Golgotha isn't that bad, except for the slow but inevitably fatal-if-untreated disease you can get there that can only be cured with advance knowledge of a game that has no central repository of spoilers.
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Dec 3, 2014 07:25
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:No, but I think it's decent enough that you should at least give it a look first: tweet my meat fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 07:56
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Golgotha isn't that bad, except for the slow but inevitably fatal-if-untreated disease you can get there that can only be cured with advance knowledge of a game that has no central repository of spoilers. It's not fatal, it's just game-ruining. You can go on perfectly fine if you don't mind never talking to an NPC again.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:04
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:It's not fatal, it's just game-ruining. You can go on perfectly fine if you don't mind never talking to an NPC again. Depends how many of the possible diseases you get. I got the one that steadily slows you down until you can't move and the tongue-rot one at the same time, which pretty much destroyed my enthusiasm for the game. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 09:06
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Golgotha isn't that bad, except for the slow but inevitably fatal-if-untreated disease you can get there that can only be cured with advance knowledge of a game that has no central repository of spoilers. It was a massive shitstorm for me, and I imagine it's the same for almost everyone the first time. Now that I know what to expect, I'll come prepared next time. But this time around, it was just a terrifying meat grinder of a place.
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Dec 3, 2014 11:59
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:How would I get that font in my game? I remember a lot of games looking really nice in the terminal back when I had an Ubuntu laptop with it's great default font, but I'm on Windows 8 now and I'm completely clueless on how to change it. Would this be the wrong place to ask? Grab the latest private beta here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vlkzatq58yqkdl5/AAAybqz-6WaBp4NxZysLq2A8a?dl=0
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Dec 3, 2014 15:03
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:How would I get that font in my game? I remember a lot of games looking really nice in the terminal back when I had an Ubuntu laptop with it's great default font, but I'm on Windows 8 now and I'm completely clueless on how to change it. Would this be the wrong place to ask? CoQ doesn't actually run in the terminal, it's a tile-based game that just looks like a curses one. So the answer for CoQ specifically is "make sure you're running a recent version, the fonts are baked in". For windows in general I'm not sure you can, apart from installing a different terminal emulator like mintty; the windows builtin terminal emulator is a complete trainwreck.
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Dec 3, 2014 16:20
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Angry Diplomat posted:I made a really really successful quad-axe marauder and was slaughtering absolutely everything. Got to level 12 or 13, completed the first few quests, reached the weird enclave thing pretty easily. Dude seemed unstoppable. Pro shortcut: Use a rubbergum injector and fling yourself down the elevator shaft on the surface, it's totally survivable and jumps you right to the, uh, "boss" guy and the waydroid. And yeah, axes own so hard they allow you to hack apart logic itself!  
Desideratus fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 17:15
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Finally got Sproggiwood! It owns. I'm very bad and keep dying because the roguelikes I usually play are the genre hybrids like Risk of Rain/Tower of Guns/The Binding of Isaac that are more actiony and I'm bad at taking the time to think about what I'm doing. But still. This game is a hell of a lot of fun. The enemy design reminds me a lot of Crypt of the Necrodancer, in that each one feels really distinct and has its own behaviors and a different 'trick' to beating them. The skill system seems a little simple but I'm hoping there will be enough variety in all the different classes I'll be unlocking + experimenting with different item builds to keep things fresh. Not very far in yet but I'm really enjoying myself and looking forward to playing some more. Nice work Unormal.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:03
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Hey folks. I've been working on a 3d rogue-like for mobile for a while now and It’s coming along pretty well. I’m getting to the point where I’m working on the itemization system and I’m trying to explore a few different options; I would like some feedback. The idea of changing armor in a game and constantly swapping out different equipped items always seemed a little strange to me, I was thinking about another way to go about it. I already have a system in the game where you choose to equip 4 different Insignia at a time, and those 4 insignia will provide you with different skills/stats depending on what slot you put them on. The insignia will give you certain stats, as well as combine with the insignia neighboring them to decide what skills you have, basically. Instead of having armor equipped, I was thinking of just having the clothing of the character be decided by what insignia they have equiped. This basically completely removed the “mobile loot donkey” element of the game and lets the player just focus on consumable and activated items. All the players armor, resistances and stats will be derived from the insignia they equip that represent the playstyle of the character they want. Now, I like this and it seems more simplified, but I’m not sure if everyone else will. Some people find the dress-up thing (gently caress, I get it – I love Dark “fashion” souls a lot) fun and some people like being able to swap out armors, it seems to be a common roguelike denominator. Is switching through armor and items constantly (like in a game like crawl) or playing dressup (like in Dark Souls) something tedious, or an enjoyable part of the genre? I can see how constantly equipping that new better piece of armor can be a constant and steady source of that giddy feeling we get from games and I'm worried to take it away. Harvey Mantaco fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 22:00
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I, uh...I tried Caves of Qud. Maybe I'm just a baby who's too used to Crawl and ToME, but I hadn't the slightest idea what to do. I made a character and was dumped into ASCII hellscape (that looked nothing like the pretty screenshots) with no idea what to do, what was even a person, where I was, etc. I ended up accidentally throwing a flashbang when trying to examine, hurting warden somethingorother, and getting killed. Fun times!
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Dec 3, 2014 22:49
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Now, I like this and it seems more simplified, but I’m not sure if everyone else will. Some people find the dress-up thing (gently caress, I get it – I love Dark “fashion” souls a lot) fun and some people like being able to swap out armors, it seems to be a common roguelike denominator. There's a few things to look out for. The big one is the one you identified last: people like making their character better. The vast majority of roguelikes have you on some kind of upgrade treadmill so you can watch your numbers go up and steamroll over the slimes and kobolds that were giving you so much trouble in the early game. Some of them (e.g. Angband) do this more than others (e.g. Sil), but it's a pretty potent source of game enjoyment, so I'd be cautious of eliminating it altogether. Even if you aren't making your character categorically better, though, there's also sidegrades to consider. If you have the choice between Heavy Plate Armor and a Robe of Fire Resistance, that comes down to how much you hate getting your books burned vs. how much you like having your limbs staying in more or less the same place. But maybe your game has zones with varying monster loadouts -- if you're heading to the Volcano of Malnourished Dragons, then that robe starts looking a lot more tempting even if you play to spend your time in melee range. Being able to customize your loadout to adapt to circumstances is valuable, in other words. That said, it is kind of weird when the player decides in the middle of combat to shuck their current armor for a different set. You could consider allowing gear changes only between levels, and strictly limiting how much gear the player is allowed to carry with them. If you have effectively 4 equipment slots, then say you can carry 2 spares, for example.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:57
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Desideratus posted:And yeah, axes own so hard they allow you to hack apart logic itself! Combined with burrowing claws, I was regularly bashing walls in the head. Sadly, cleaving through their armour didn't appear to actually help me break them down. I did cut a bloody foot off of a robot somehow, though! You can do so much cool stuff with espers and tinkers and whatnot but it's just so drat satisfying to  QUADRUPLE AXES the poo poo out of everything in sight.
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Dec 3, 2014 23:55
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:There's a few things to look out for. The big one is the one you identified last: people like making their character better. The vast majority of roguelikes have you on some kind of upgrade treadmill so you can watch your numbers go up and steamroll over the slimes and kobolds that were giving you so much trouble in the early game. Some of them (e.g. Angband) do this more than others (e.g. Sil), but it's a pretty potent source of game enjoyment, so I'd be cautious of eliminating it altogether. This is good advice. Thanks.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:05
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I managed to figure out how to change the font in the console version. Some characters are a bit cut off or missing, but it looks great compared to default settings. I'll gently caress around with it some more later. I'm really loving the 4 armed, 2 tusked, axe wielding bandit build. Seems like a really decent, but incredibly fun beginner playstyle.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:26
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Now, I like this and it seems more simplified, but I’m not sure if everyone else will. Some people find the dress-up thing (gently caress, I get it – I love Dark “fashion” souls a lot) fun and some people like being able to swap out armors, it seems to be a common roguelike denominator. Something to consider is if you feel that you want to really hone in on a specific mechanic. A lot of games have taken to the trend of really simplifying things to a basic element and focusing on that, and it often makes them unique and/or interesting. Anything that is in the game is there for a specific reason. If you decide that the feeling of progression and preparation isn't Important or Interesting for the experience you're seeking to create then it should be fine to leave out. Equipment matters in Souls games because it lets you adjust the slider on the difficulty somewhat, and certain weapons are better in different situations or playstyles. Crawl is in large part "about" adapting to equipment you find and using it optimally, and it's all well differentiated and makes replays appealing and... different. In those games and many like them there's a very good reason for varied equipment to exist, and the complexity it adds is intended to be a positive part of the experience. Personally I find equipment pretty fun, even in something as stripped down as cardinal quest.
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Dec 4, 2014 06:07
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 Seems reasonable
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Dec 4, 2014 14:04
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:That said, it is kind of weird when the player decides in the middle of combat to shuck their current armor for a different set. You could consider allowing gear changes only between levels, and strictly limiting how much gear the player is allowed to carry with them. If you have effectively 4 equipment slots, then say you can carry 2 spares, for example. Most roguelikes I've played handle that by making it take (often quite significant) amounts of time. You can change your armour in mid-combat, but the whole time you're doing that things will be hitting you in the face.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:34
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ToxicFrog posted:Most roguelikes I've played handle that by making it take (often quite significant) amounts of time. You can change your armour in mid-combat, but the whole time you're doing that things will be hitting you in the face. I've noticed that there's a trend in newer roguelikes to do away with that, and make it take only 1 turn to equip/unequip stuff. It simplifies things a lot if you avoid having actions that take multiple turns. It means players need to be aware of what actions take a long time, and you need to design the game to handle weird cases of stuff happening in the middle of an action (what if a monster walks up to you the turn after you start to equip armour?). Especially bad if a miskey can lead to (effectively) being paralyzed for 5+ turns. Worth noting it takes 1 turn in Rogue. That game also has a very strict inventory limit, and you can't stash items.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:24
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Is switching through armor and items constantly (like in a game like crawl) or playing dressup (like in Dark Souls) something tedious, or an enjoyable part of the genre? I can see how constantly equipping that new better piece of armor can be a constant and steady source of that giddy feeling we get from games and I'm worried to take it away. I find that swapping equipment in for areas, bosses, and upgrades is fun, as it encourages thinking about tactics, potential upcoming threats, and difficulty changes (easier or harder) that result from the change. I would say that the only time that equipment swapping becomes tedious is when it's used like a consumable, like carrying a blindfold to wear to avoid being paralyzed by floating eyes or using junk weapons to fight corroding enemies. When equipment changes occur at the encounter (single/group of enemies) level and the swap is more complex than melee/ranged weapon, it feels more like something that belongs in an adventure game than a dungeon crawler.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:29
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Any turn-based 3d Roguelikes? Thinking something that plays like the oldschool dungeon crawlers, but is a roguelike. And more indepth than Dungeon Hack, which was fun but really limited.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:33
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Floodkiller posted:I find that swapping equipment in for areas, bosses, and upgrades is fun, as it encourages thinking about tactics, potential upcoming threats, and difficulty changes (easier or harder) that result from the change. I would say that the only time that equipment swapping becomes tedious is when it's used like a consumable, like carrying a blindfold to wear to avoid being paralyzed by floating eyes or using junk weapons to fight corroding enemies. When equipment changes occur at the encounter (single/group of enemies) level and the swap is more complex than melee/ranged weapon, it feels more like something that belongs in an adventure game than a dungeon crawler. Isn't in similarly "consumable" if you say, have a group of fire and cold enemies in a corridor, and swap to fire/cold resistance armor after you kill each one? It sounds like a bit much to me.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:45
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Isn't in similarly "consumable" if you say, have a group of fire and cold enemies in a corridor, and swap to fire/cold resistance armor after you kill each one? It sounds like a bit much to me. It is 'consumable', and is one of the things I dislike in Crawl (armor can't be swapped out easily, but rings can; this encourages keeping resistance rings and swapping in whatever you are missing based on what enemy is currently in front of you), but it's a really hard thing to fix (rebalancing damage/monster rarity in areas) compared to just keeping ring swapping (3 inputs to swap). It gets more unfeasible to completely eliminate tedium the larger/more complex the game gets, but that doesn't make it okay; just aim to minimize it when possible. EvilMike posted:Worth noting it takes 1 turn in Rogue. That game also has a very strict inventory limit, and you can't stash items. The only non-consumable and resistance based equipment in Rogue you would want to swap (and not just replace with a better/non-broken version based on what your strength can support) are rings, and they suffer from their own tedium in costing hunger (meaningful in Rogue), meaning that it becomes optimal to only swap them in while fighting/searching (except for slow digestion).
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Dec 4, 2014 18:14
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Ring swapping is kind of okay with me, or at least, things would be much worse without it. It doesn't seem like a problem that is really fixable in crawl. The interface could be better ("Put on the ring I want for this monster" and then automatically swap back when resting). The only really annoying ones are the ones that were useful to swap on when not fighting, like regen(now an amulet which makes it somewhat better since I'm usually wearing faith) and sustenance(before it was removed).
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Dec 4, 2014 18:39
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