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pram posted:then it wouldnt meet the posix spec you dumb bastard hence "i wish"
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Dec 3, 2014 05:42
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BobHoward posted:hence "i wish" just add symlinks in /System and suppress the entries from getdirent on /
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Dec 3, 2014 05:53
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nfs is still trash
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Dec 3, 2014 06:00
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write a better one
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Dec 3, 2014 06:12
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pram posted:uhhhh lol are you serious lol I know right this fuckin guy
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Dec 3, 2014 06:34
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Subjunctive posted:my plan is to require systemd, Wayland, and root on btrfs. 
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Dec 3, 2014 06:35
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Mr Dog posted:If you're actually talking about X11 then holy so here's the thing: remotely displaying emacs for a beardlord is a real world, right-now, works-just-loving-fine-thank-you use case for real users who actually exist. developing a great leap forward in architecture that leaves behind actual users is gonna result in a lot of pissing and moaning. hate on X11 all you want. it doesn't matter how ugly the guts are: if you break remote emacs, a real use case for real people, you're gonna piss off users.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:22
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that stack is profoundly hosed (for reasons why it took so long to fix it by way of Wayland see: resistance from beardlords, again, who don't know much about post-1985 GUI development but certainly have Opinions about it, pissing and moaning hysterically if you threaten their ability to remotely display Emacs)
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And I have replied that we will not break remote emacs for people many, many times.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:37
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The only use I ever found for x forwarding was avoiding purchasing a license for maple. It seemed like it was a fraction of a second faster on an RS/6000 than my laptop anyways.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:56
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Suspicious Dish posted:And I have replied that we will not break remote emacs for people many, many times. you are not mr dog, who espoused the view that it doesn't matter, because he doesn't care what a bunch of beardlords think.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:33
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keyvin posted:The only use I ever found for x forwarding was avoiding purchasing a license for maple. It seemed like it was a fraction of a second faster on an RS/6000 than my laptop anyways. maple, matlab, and mathematica have all dropped legacy unix support linux on the desktop supremacy
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Dec 3, 2014 21:39
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Suspicious Dish posted:And I have replied that we will not break remote emacs for people many, many times. yeah, hasn't wayland had a proper rdp protocol that supports rootless windows for over a year now? the beardlords will still complain because it's "too windows like" and thus "not the unix way", it's slower over their 14.4 modem or because it's too easy and thus something that normal people who aren't afraid of the sun can use, but they aren't actually losing any functionality. The_Franz fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 21:39
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i'm gonna lol so hard if anyone claims that x11 was ever "the unix way" of anything
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Dec 3, 2014 21:54
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Gazpacho posted:i'm gonna lol so hard if anyone claims that x11 was ever "the unix way" of anything some beardlord posted:I've used it on LANs. I've used it across my crummy IDSL link. And I've even used it on dial-up. Only when using very graphics intensive applications on dial-up did I find the performance awful (and, fortunately, I only needed to resort to dial-up during those rare times that the VPN access was down). Caveat: I'm not trying to play games via X11 connections which may be why it works well for me and so badly for the folks who are in favor of Wayland. The_Franz fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 22:00
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Gazpacho posted:i'm gonna lol so hard if anyone claims that x11 was ever "the unix way" of anything it totally was, i.e. a big mess that only worked some of the time, that doesn't run on lots of hardware, and which you had to edit all sorts of text files to get even partially working
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Dec 3, 2014 22:33
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as recently as 2005 or so i had to use machines w such crappy displays that they couldnt handle all the colors for an application, so if the focus was on, say, a web browser the colors of the other windows & the wm were all hosed up
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Dec 3, 2014 22:35
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Gazpacho posted:i'm gonna lol so hard if anyone claims that x11 was ever "the unix way" of anything Linux: the laughs never stop.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:35
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fritz posted:it totally was, i.e. a big mess that only worked some of the time, that doesn't run on lots of hardware, and which you had to edit all sorts of text files to get even partially working To this day I have no idea how the xterms in our lab worked. They were configured by a consultant and as student sysadmin I was told to pretty much never touch the directory they netbooted from. The configs looked like a mass of unintelligible garbage it would take 10 years of reading a manual to understand. Was pretty cool though, they had local floppy disk drives, sound, etc. They were pretty much a really expensive PC that was worthless without a $900,000 computer. Edit: even with a "user friendly" gui no one used the rs/6000 unless they were doing research or had a unix programming assignment. $900,000 that sat idle 95% of the time. SYSV Fanfic fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 22:37
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keyvin posted:They were pretty much a really expensive PC running an X server that was worthless without a $900,000 computer. is literally how x terminals worked
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Dec 3, 2014 23:00
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Mr Dog posted:I'm not sure anybody even uses network filesystems any more these days, at least not on anything Unix,  Da gently caress ?
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Dec 4, 2014 00:21
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Suspicious Dish posted:Linux: the laughs never stop. ubnyu but with laffs
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Dec 4, 2014 00:23
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no but i mean as a serious question what do people use network filesystems for on linux these days please don't tell me they still use NFS  please don't bring up anything inside a university because the people who run IT at universities are deathly allergic to things like good ideas and the passage of time
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Dec 4, 2014 00:54
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Mr Dog posted:no but i mean as a serious question what do people use network filesystems for on linux these days accessing poo poo from my media server
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Dec 4, 2014 00:55
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Mr Dog posted:no but i mean as a serious question what do people use network filesystems for on linux these days 
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Dec 4, 2014 01:05
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Mr Dog posted:no but i mean as a serious question what do people use network filesystems for on linux these days we use NFS for home directories and utility binaries, because who's copying all that poo poo to six digits of servers. also glusterFS for I think petabytes of stuff. oh yeah, we use Lustre for some stuff too, but I don't think any of my code is still in it
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Dec 4, 2014 01:12
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fritz posted:as recently as 2005 or so i had to use machines w such crappy displays that they couldnt handle all the colors for an application, so if the focus was on, say, a web browser the colors of the other windows & the wm were all hosed up this happened because stingy loving vendors didn't contribute anything upstream in the lovely reference implementation of X11's 8 bit color, you had a global color map, but any given application would change the color map when it felt like it. so everything was a flickering mess all the time non-lovely vendors provided 8 bit "truecolor" visuals. apps were told to just request any color they wanted, and then the system would handle color mapping and dithering to get the best compromise output. this actually looked pretty good, but the vendors who did it hoarded the code like improved 8 bit color was gonna make or break their desktop offerings
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Dec 4, 2014 01:24
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:but of course stingy loving vendors didn't contribute anything upstream good username/software-license combo also if their mid-90s Motif implementations were any indication, they couldn't have upstreamed anyway because they hacked it all to gently caress and back. "hey, do we have to free the return value from this?" "are you on HPUX?" Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 01:25
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:in the lovely reference implementation of X11's 8 bit color, you had a global color map, but any given application would change the color map when it felt like it. so everything was a flickering mess all the time "Mechanism, not policy" The only people who were supposed to make the InstallColormap request were WMs, but it's not X11's job to enforce that.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:51
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keyvin posted:To this day I have no idea how the xterms in our lab worked. They were configured by a consultant and as student sysadmin I was told to pretty much never touch the directory they netbooted from. The configs looked like a mass of unintelligible garbage it would take 10 years of reading a manual to understand. Was pretty cool though, they had local floppy disk drives, sound, etc. They were pretty much a really expensive PC that was worthless without a $900,000 computer. we had those in grad school, they were 'not great" and you sometimes had to bang on them to get them to work
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Dec 4, 2014 01:58
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Subjunctive posted:we use NFS for home directories and utility binaries, because who's copying all that poo poo to six digits of servers. this. $PREVIOUS_EMPLOYER used nfs for home dirs + eda tool binaries + a system of automounts which let every workstation and server on the lan export a world writable scratch dir at a predictable mount point based on that machine's network name. very useful for running jobs on a headless compute server and then easily examining output on your workstation. being able to log in to any computer in the building and instantly have all of your work environment available is tremendously useful in some contexts
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Dec 4, 2014 02:19
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we use an NFS share to store the database for two AMQ nodes to negotiate master/server roles its lol
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Dec 4, 2014 02:21
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Mr Dog posted:no but i mean as a serious question what do people use network filesystems for on linux these days lmao nfs is used, basically anywhere with filer infrastructure. even seen it in ec2 (gluster) most people are moving to iscsi now but its still in a ton of places. its even used for oracle http://www.orafaq.com/wiki/Direct_NFS
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Dec 4, 2014 02:25
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unless you count iscsi and fc as a network filesystem then the answer is literally everyone important uses it
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Dec 4, 2014 02:27
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Subjunctive posted:good username/software-license combo ironically i hate bsd i got this in a namechange thread and i am too cheap to change it
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Dec 4, 2014 02:38
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There Will Be Penalty posted:is literally how x terminals worked By not work, I don't know how the disk drives worked with the rs/6000. I also didn't understand the configs. I wonder what happened to that thing. My student lab discovered the previous super computer cluster in surplus and abused university policy to bring it to our lab, minus the power conditioner because it was too heavy to move. It was HP/UX, and there was a central server plus about half a dozen nodes/workstations. Sometimes I miss the days of shared systems, and then I remind myself I have a super computer on my desk. I use it to browse the web and kill virtual dragons. Neither of which work well on desktop Linux. fritz posted:we had those in grad school, they were 'not great" and you sometimes had to bang on them to get them to work Ours were in mint condition from never being used. The only time someone sat at one was when they mistook it for a PC.
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Dec 4, 2014 02:49
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pleasure keyvin
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Dec 4, 2014 03:52
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ow was hpux running on a rs/6000 moron
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Dec 4, 2014 03:53
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fritz posted:it totally was, i.e. a big mess that only worked some of the time, that doesn't run on lots of hardware, and which you had to edit all sorts of text files to get even partially working
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Dec 4, 2014 05:00
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Gazpacho posted:it also did pretty well with the whole "provide some foundation bits and let everyone & their bros bodge together a different, equally bad end-to-end solution" aspect I have a web like that.
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Dec 4, 2014 05:14
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:hate on X11 all you want. it doesn't matter how ugly the guts are: if you break remote emacs, a real use case for real people, you're gonna piss off users. if you ain't using TRAMP i feel bad for you son i got 99 problems but x11 forwarding ain't one
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Dec 4, 2014 09:15
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