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Wick: "You get a VILLAIN POINT!" Ball: "Eek! What does it do?" Meanwhile the rest of the players aren't scared of her character, or her VILLAIN POINT, they're wincing and cringing because the GM just yanked another of his gently caress-you mechanics out of his rear end, and the more perceptive ones are really skeeved out too. And good god drat, I hate it when people trot novels out as 'examples' for gaming. You know what? Novels are written by one or two people, not a bunch of dorks sitting around a table. Bifur and Bofur don't get pissed off because the special snowflake who just had to play a hobbit is soaking up all the session time, because they aren't being played by separate goddamn people who could be playing WoW or masturbating instead. Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 00:04
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Robindaybird posted:Uuuugh. the way he described "Happy Fun Ball" is just gross. That condescending slime just oozing and some barely concealed lust. Yeah, you just want to tell him "This. This is why there aren't very many women in this hobby. Because the moment you feel like you have a tiny whiff of power you start acting like this. And the worst part is that you think she either can't tell what your gross tones mean, or that she's into it. You've got such little regard for her agency that you think her literally shrinking away from your attentions is a cue and not a warning sign. Oh also because you think it's up to you to not only decide, but subsquently inform us about why she is a "girl" and not a "woman." theironjef fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 00:07
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AmiYumi posted:That, uh, sure was a lot of emphasis on how UNDERAGE and PERKY that girl was, and how much pleasure he got out of taking control of her character and then making her curl up into her hoodie no seriously someone call the loving police
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Dec 4, 2014 00:10
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Yeah, there's plenty of reasons to hate the guy already, let's not make any up. I mean the Happy Fun Ball poo poo is gross and the Villain Point stuff sounds like Fate's crippled cousin but we don't need to go that far.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:18
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Also not much to add on Dark Earth Legends (I think that book typoed the title) other than to say: Mojo Nixon is one of my hundred Pandora channels. Oh, and I picked a certain supplement for a certain game that rhymes with "Spin-a-Car". Weird thing is, it's almost all just world stuff detailing all of the races and classes more, including the optional ones, with new (and often terrible) art. So if you're wondering what a Tree Devil looks like, now you can find out. Kai Tave posted:Legit question, why do you feel like/worry about being too hard on Wick? He's not history's greatest monster, sure, but in the context of "guy publishes a book of SUPER-RAD GMing advice" 90% of the advice he gives is completely and utterly terrible wrapped in a thick veneer of smugness. That's not even taking into accounts his hilariously bitter reviews of games more popular than his or tales of him burning professional bridges. One of the bigger things that affected me was- I did F&Fs of a certain game by a certain designer, and I've been pretty brutal. And last Gencon, I worked to try and meet that person. Because why the hell not, really. And I try and meet them but they keep being just out of reach. Finally, I sweep by the booth and catch him in the middle of autographs. He looks up to me, I thank him for helping get me into RPG, he kind of mumbles out a greeting, and quickly turns away. Now, I've got my SA handle on my badge because I'm meeting goons. I have no idea if he knows who I am, but I realize I just got snubbed- "Huh, is he avoiding me? Did I genuinely hurt the guy?" It could be that he was just busy or tired, or just snubbed me because I didn't have the gushing fan signs of many others waiting with a dozen books in hand to be signed. But as I'm coming home from the con, I actually feel kind of bad. It doesn't matter if he's a great guy or a total jerk, I'm like "Am I just a prick?", and then I'm like "Well, if he knows who I am, then he could have approached it in any other way. If it bothers him, he could have had a conversation on that. I don't hate him. But he's built a bubble for himself, and those are the choices he's made, and it's not for me to bow to that out of some presumed guilt." Still, though, Wick's just a guy and I don't know what his games really are like. All evidence points to him being abrasive, egotistical, and temperamental, and unlike the aforementioned designer, I've met Wick and talked to him at length, got yelled at and apologized to, shared in some of his frustrations over the Legend of the Five Rings storyline, etc. I was a big fan but I outgrew it, but when I bought Play Dirty, I genuinely did it because I liked the column. But I can't say if he's the dragon he presents himself as. For a good long while I ran Legend of the Five Rings, and I was really influenced by Wick at the time. If the dice killed your character, that was that. I didn't fudge, and I sure as hell didn't pull punches. If you were a samurai, you had best wake up in the morning ready to die without regrets, because every day could be your last. At one point we had a big battle, and a new player has his Unicorn samurai, and he faces off against a Crane samurai with a powerful defensive technique. He comes at the Crane, and I describe how the Crane is backing off, fighting defensively, and then lashes out with his powerful counterattack, because he's got a move for that. Each time the Unicorn charged in uncreatively, and each time I emphasized that the Crane is going back into the same stance, the one he used for the counterattack. Well, four counterattacks and the Unicorn was dead. "Should've taken the hint.", I sneered privately to other friends. "I made it clear what was going on- why'd he keep doing that?" Another time a player was running a Dragon tattooed monk. Now, his was a player that loved having insurance for every circumstance, to make untouchable characters that would walk out of anything. So he's got Great Destiny, which can keep you from dying once every so often, and a magic tattoo that heals his character back up to full. He's basically got three lives. Now, he runs into a demon cult as they're summoning a demon. Now, as I'm thinking as a GM, he's going to have to warn the other PCs so they can team up, but nope- time to fight a demon. Those who know Five Rings know demons are bad news, but worse, this is a berserker demon that for X turns after being summoned is going to be an unstoppable whirlwind of death. He gets taken down, heals up to full and chases after the demon. He meets up with the party and the demon gives them a drubbing, particularly our poor monk, who has lots of bravery but no armor. He "dies", but his destiny keeps him alive. The demon runs out of time, goes out of its berserker rage, and the PCs can make short, painful work of it. Now our monk is practically bleeding out. When a crowd gathers, he sees one of the cultists in the crowd, recognizing them from the ceremony. She puts her finger to her lips in a "shhh" motion, because he's in no shape for a brawl. In my mind I'm giving him a choice - live and let her get away, or call her out and... well. He calls her out on the spot. She casts a spell that causes him to bleed out, though the other PCs accost her afterwards. And that was absolutely inspired by Wick. "Are you willing to die to be a hero?" Well, he was. Also he quit. I feel for how clever he thinks it is because I was that guy, too. But I've realized that kind of swaggering RPG machismo was keeping me from telling good stories. It made me feel smug, sure, but not everybody enjoyed it. Oh, don't get me wrong, the majority of the players involved loved my Legend of the Five Rings games. It's my most-requested game to run amongst my old-time gaming crew, and I get harassed to this day on a regular basis to run it again. But I pushed some players too hard, too soon, and for bad reasons. I know the excitement those Champions players felt because I've evoked it myself. But I learned I don't have to play dirty to do that.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:47
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theironjef posted:Yeah, you just want to tell him "This. This is why there aren't very many women in this hobby. Because the moment you feel like you have a tiny whiff of power you start acting like this. And the worst part is that you think she either can't tell what your gross tones mean, or that she's into it. You've got such little regard for her agency that you think her literally shrinking away from your attentions is a cue and not a warning sign. Oh also because you think it's up to you to not only decide, but subsquently inform us about why she is a "girl" and not a "woman."
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Dec 4, 2014 00:54
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theironjef posted:Yeah, you just want to tell him "This. This is why there aren't very many women in this hobby. Because the moment you feel like you have a tiny whiff of power you start acting like this. And the worst part is that you think she either can't tell what your gross tones mean, or that she's into it. You've got such little regard for her agency that you think her literally shrinking away from your attentions is a cue and not a warning sign. Oh also because you think it's up to you to not only decide, but subsquently inform us about why she is a "girl" and not a "woman." There are several reasons why we are not the majority in this hobby and while that creepy dude's attitude is only one of them it's telling of a much bigger problem.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:00
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Also not much to add on Dark Earth Legends (I think that book typoed the title) other than to say: Mojo Nixon is one of my hundred Pandora channels. Not much to add, really. It was a boring book. Very hard to pick apart and make fun of because it's not the first boring fantasy heartbreaker we've seen and I doubt it'll be the last. At least Maid is something completely different. And what do tree demons look like? I'm probably going to keep imagining them as red ewoks with one super hipster gay one.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:00
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Happy Fun Ball clearly isn't a member of Clan Scorpion though.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:00
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theironjef posted:Well yeah, the big story about how he had a villain kill a character's grandmother, causing that character to retire in shame, is total STDH. We're supposed to believe a player was so beaten at a table that they quit, but literally quit from the story and not just because the DM was being an rear end in a top hat? I think you infected me with your attitude from System Mastery, because when I read that the villain killed that heroine's grandmother, I immediately brought up the mental image of her leaping into the air going "Yes, free points"! Also, who says you can't have dead family members and still be a superhero? I can think of at least two examples. Honestly, I'm really in favor now of Fate-like traits that reward points in game than during character creation. That way, taking care of Grammy-Num-Nums before going on patrol allows you to pull off a Kamehameha on Dr. Braino. Or, if Dr. Braino kills Grammy, you can "take care" of Grammy by doing things in her memory and gain points that way, like leave roses on her grave or beat Dr. Braino so hard his axons shits out inhibitory neurotransmitters.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:09
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Young Freud posted:I think you infected me with your attitude from System Mastery, because when I read that the villain killed that heroine's grandmother, I immediately brought up the mental image of her leaping into the air going "Yes, free points"! Oh, you mean my inordinate hatred for merit/flaw systems? Yeah, that's a real thing with me. All the way back to our like second episode with Buffy and flaws like "have to always be telling jokes".
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Dec 4, 2014 01:20
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ARB, I'm saying this as someone who really likes ypur GMing and roleplaying. Your comments and reviews are in no way going to really hurt someone who is worth paying attention to. John Wick does not sound like the kind of person who would lose sleep over one person's review of his product, for better or worse, and nobody with a hint of sense is going to do that either. If people got upset because one person thought something they did was poo poo we'd never get out of bed in the morning. We all laugh when an rpg designer gets mad at us for making fun of their product, because they're clearly not mature enough to handle critique. As for the con, it's likely that designer was tired and had a long day of talking to nerds and so he just dealt with you quickly. I highly doubt that he snubbed you personally, and I doubt he even remembers you. Obviously you've had more contact with John, but that doesn't mean you need to handle him with kid gloves. His opinions are poo poo and he clearly plays rpgs like a bully. I'm honestly glad you broke away from his style, because Wick-style DMing sounds miserable to be on the recieving end of. This should probably go into another thread or somewhere more private, but in summary, people who get upset at others making fun of them on a comedy forum are dumb, and you don't need to feel sorry for them. Just write what you think. The Deleter fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 01:29
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theironjef posted:Oh, you mean my inordinate hatred for merit/flaw systems? Yeah, that's a real thing with me. All the way back to our like second episode with Buffy and flaws like "have to always be telling jokes". The funny thing is John Wick actually agrees with you. He's specifically had several things to say about how merit/flaw systems of the positive/negative point variety suck, and 7th Sea ditched the conventional setup for one in which you actually had to pay points for your flaws with the reasoning that a flaw was basically a way of saying "please give me spotlight time for this."
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Dec 4, 2014 01:34
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Not all of those are bad, just most. In fact, basically all flaw lists except Ars Magica's.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:37
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Siivola posted:"Out of high school" sort of implies that she's 18 or above. Man writes like a loving bully, going by ARB's choice quotes, but let's not crucify him for pedophilia while we're at it, good grief.  I mean, honestly, can you blame me for taking that one extra mental step?
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Dec 4, 2014 01:51
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theironjef posted:Oh, you mean my inordinate hatred for merit/flaw systems? Yeah, that's a real thing with me. All the way back to our like second episode with Buffy and flaws like "have to always be telling jokes". Nah, I was more specifically thinking that bit in the Cthuhlutech review where you talk about buying a Repulsive: Stinky then getting a roll on the "Warp Phenomenon" chart when spell casting and get the "permanent smell like vanilla" than your general hate for merit/flaw systems. I like merit/flaw systems, but I do think that flaws really need to have a statistical drawback to actually earn points for character generation. I've been working on a heartbreaker myself and I've been thinking about separating statistical flaws from storytelling/character flaws, which cost nothing during generation, but, borrowing a bit from Fate aspects, would allow the character to earn points when invoking those flaws, motivations or needs they can use to "power" other abilities, either gameplay or narrative-wise.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:59
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I wonder if I can dig up my copy of Orkworld. I think I read it quickly when it came out and then it's been on the shelf for ages. Don't recall much beyond "well this is not the usual GURPS/D&D thing".
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Dec 4, 2014 02:18
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Tolan posted:I wonder if I can dig up my copy of Orkworld. I think I read it quickly when it came out and then it's been on the shelf for ages. Don't recall much beyond "well this is not the usual GURPS/D&D thing". It has rules for tactics AND strategy, and not only medicine...but sickness!
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Dec 4, 2014 03:58
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Darth Vader certainly fits better with the petulant manchild ideal. I know this is from a while ago, but this pretty much describes everyone I've known who thought Sith were better than Jedi.
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Dec 4, 2014 04:11
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To be fair, plenty of people writing official Star Wars-y stuff, including George Lucas himself, have gone out of their way to portray the Jedi as a bunch of incompetent fuckups and/or trying to spin the Sith as bad but misunderstood or something, it's not just RPG geeks that do that stuff.
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Dec 4, 2014 04:18
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Star Wars seems sufficiently hosed up and convoluted at this point, you can't blame someone for doing whatever they want with it. It's a black box of cultural cachet that you reach into and pull out different things. It's nearly a genre unto itself like that.
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Dec 4, 2014 04:25
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Kai Tave posted:To be fair, plenty of people writing official Star Wars-y stuff, including George Lucas himself, have gone out of their way to portray the Jedi as a bunch of incompetent fuckups and/or trying to spin the Sith as bad but misunderstood or something, it's not just RPG geeks that do that stuff. The Sith are assholes by design, the Jedi are assholes because George Lucas is a bad writer.
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Dec 4, 2014 04:27
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The Deleter posted:Obviously you've had more contact with John, but that doesn't mean you need to handle him with kid gloves. His opinions are poo poo and he clearly plays rpgs like a bully. I'm honestly glad you broke away from his style, because Wick-style DMing sounds miserable to be on the recieving end of. Thanks for the compliments. Honestly, I don't think I handled him with kid gloves, I just didn't, you know, or comment on his personal life or curse his name, which I did a lot more of in Way of the Scorpion. It's weird in doing F&Fs sometimes where you get to know a writer well enough that- well, for example, after doing my Pathfinder review, people were surprised to see me defend the idea of people playing it, because I'm don't really have a problem with that, I just think the game is dumb. But people can still enjoy stuff I think is dumb! I don't think I really held back on criticizing the work, though. AmiYumi posted:I mean, honestly, can you blame me for taking that one extra mental step? I think it's mostly just that he describes her using terms I would use to describe a pet. It doesn't mean there's anything actually untoward going on, I would have no idea, but I did include it largely in its entirety because it's somewhat uncomfortable to read in retrospect because of that.
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Dec 4, 2014 04:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I think it's mostly just that he describes her using terms I would use to describe a pet. It doesn't mean there's anything actually untoward going on, I would have no idea, but I did include it largely in its entirety because it's somewhat uncomfortable to read in retrospect because of that. Yeah, that's just it. You don't have to comment on, or even know a thing about someone's personal life to read a thing like that which they wrote, published, and sold thinking "yes, this is what I want people to imagine when they think of me," and come away thinking that dude is kind of a toolbox and maybe skeezy too (for real, "skeezy" is not a word I would have used to describe John Wick before but reading that passage cinched it). It's not unfair to dog on Wick when he publishes a self-aggrandizing tome of "how to be a miserable rear end in a top hat," then turns around and decides to go for an encore.
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Dec 4, 2014 05:27
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I legitimately will never understand why GMs like Wick think they 'win' in these stories. Like, you control the world, that's the entire point of your role in the story, no poo poo you can declare a woman...sorry...girl who plays in your game A Villain and taunt her about it because she failed a dice roll...you did that thing. Like, you're not watching a program play out, you did a thing in a situation where you had ultimate power and you made someone go 'ugh poo poo'. If one day I hide my dog's treats and then laugh while he's sniffing around trying to find them again I didn't 'beat' my dog at anything, I just hosed with something that has no power to stop me beyond going 'gently caress this I quit' and walking away.
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Dec 4, 2014 06:13
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I'd like to imagine that if the one woman did use the Villain Point, Wick would have no idea what to do because they weren't following his master plan.
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Dec 4, 2014 06:16
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Green Intern posted:I'd like to imagine that if the one woman did use the Villain Point, Wick would have no idea what to do because they weren't following his master plan. I think there's no corner anyone can turn to escape his master plan of "be a raging cockwad."
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Dec 4, 2014 06:18
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Green Intern posted:I'd like to imagine that if the one woman did use the Villain Point, Wick would have no idea what to do because they weren't following his master plan. I have no doubt he planned a way where she'd succeed but hurt/kill another player because she's so bloodthirsty and evil and heartless Because Wick Said So.
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Dec 4, 2014 06:27
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I legitimately will never understand why GMs like Wick think they 'win' in these stories. Like, you control the world, that's the entire point of your role in the story, no poo poo you can declare a woman...sorry...girl who plays in your game A Villain and taunt her about it because she failed a dice roll...you did that thing. Like, you're not watching a program play out, you did a thing in a situation where you had ultimate power and you made someone go 'ugh poo poo'. I had the same thought when I was reading this bit: Alien Rope Burn, quoting Wick posted:So, your next combat should sound like this: To me, this sounds like he's encouraging his reader to abuse the fact that, as DM, you have complete narrative control, while in most traditional games the PCs have limited or no ability to affect the narrative. I get trying to make combat more colorful than "I roll to hit, I roll damage," but there are ways to do that other than constantly making new rules so your NPCs can go all MMA on the players. I'm sure a Wick-style GM would be much less generous if I, as a player, tried to do the same thing to his NPCs. As a DM myself, I can't imagine trying this sort of poo poo without having a lot of empty seats at the table next session.
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Dec 4, 2014 07:22
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AmiYumi posted:I mean, honestly, can you blame me for taking that one extra mental step?
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Dec 4, 2014 10:07
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quote:The workplace was Neopets. Wait, hold the goddamn phone, are you serious? What was he doing on friggin' Neopets? I had an account there like a decade ago, when was he there?
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Dec 4, 2014 10:37
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If it's not touching the poop I too would like to know the tale of John Wick and Neopets.
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Dec 4, 2014 10:46
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Thanks for the compliments. I'm not sure how to respond to this. You start the review by saying that you don't want us to judge John Wick too harshly, and that you've talked to him for hours about things and that he's grown as a person. I find that hard to believe when he's successfully kickstartered a second book that's presumably full of the same stupid, poisonous advice and smug attitude as this one. I agree that you show off the dumb stuff he wrote, but at the same time you did hold back, especially compared to your Way of the Scorpion review. Now that's fine, because god knows we've had enough super-angry reviews of bad RPGs in this thread already. But when Ettin did his Cthulhutech reviews, he didn't let the fact that there were interesting ideas in there stop him from deriding it as the piece of poo poo it was. I'm not privy to what your personal experience with John Wick actually entailed, but it shouldn't stop you from saying that what's in Play Dirty and Way of the Scorpion creates a picture that Wick is a spergy rear end in a top hat with the same "we do this MY WAY" delusions of any low-rate bad GM. On a side note, trying to parcel people into things like "Wick the writer" and "Wick the person" has always been dumb to me, because he's clearly put himself into his writing and this is actually what he does when he plays games. He's inserted himself and his (ex?)wife into Legend of the Five Rings, and this book is his drat manifesto of roleplaying. It's not like he has dissociative identity disorder or something. The Pathfinder comment doesn't work. I agree it's a dumb product, but people are entitled to like it - hell, I used to play it a lot when I was younger. But Play Dirty is not a dumb product, it's a harmful product. It advocates that GMs should bully their players, present them with unwinnable situations, corral them into acts that make them feel lovely and stop playing, and to be proud of it. This is literally advocating the stupid behavior that people see when they imagine roleplaying games. The "interesting ideas" are either not original in the slightest, or have been done better by games written by people who don't take it as a point of pride that they're miserable to play with, or aren't miserable to play with full stop. You could time travel to any point in RPG history and find something John Wick has talked about being done better. It angers me that people not only like Play Dirty, but wanted a sequel so much they gave him the money to do it. People deserve better than that. Edit: I'm not trying to tell you to hate John Wick. That's up to you. But he's doing more harm than good. The Deleter fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 11:53
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Young Freud posted:I like merit/flaw systems, but I do think that flaws really need to have a statistical drawback to actually earn points for character generation. I've been working on a heartbreaker myself and I've been thinking about separating statistical flaws from storytelling/character flaws, which cost nothing during generation, but, borrowing a bit from Fate aspects, would allow the character to earn points when invoking those flaws, motivations or needs they can use to "power" other abilities, either gameplay or narrative-wise. In the new World of Darkness (1st ed.), the optional Flaws systems works in the way that you have Flaws, they cost nothing, and they earn you XP when they significantly disadvantage you during the game. So if you're wheelchair-bound, and you spend the entire session running research plots in the library, you're considered to be playing on an equal line with the other player characters. But when the bad guys take you out before combat starts by toppling your wheelchair, you get tasty XP in return for your disadvantage. It has the advantage of not advantaging players who get their "100% deadly allergy to this extremely rare fish", "addiction: common substance available at every corner store", or "psychological disorder: acting like a Player Character" Flaws.
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Dec 4, 2014 13:17
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I liked the concept behind those sorts of flaws, but I was always leery about that 'significant disadvantage' leading to bad flare-ups of thumb-in-rear end syndrome.
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Dec 4, 2014 13:28
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I also like that flaw system better than the usual, but I don't like unbalanced XP progression in the first place, especially when it contributes to what I see as bad incentives. I don't really want to play with someone who's going to not play a character in a wheelchair, the character they presumably want to play, just because they won't get special extra numbers for doing so.
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Dec 4, 2014 14:21
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Kavak posted:Wait, hold the goddamn phone, are you serious? What was he doing on friggin' Neopets? I had an account there like a decade ago, when was he there? Around 2004? I can't find exact dates, but a rulebook from '04 lists him under "Creative Direction", along with a bunch of other bodies. Here's a list of stories he did for Neopets. You can find more stuff likely by doing a search on his site, but it looks like he's long gone from the Neopets site itself. The Deleter posted:On a side note, trying to parcel people into things like "Wick the writer" and "Wick the person" has always been dumb to me, because he's clearly put himself into his writing and this is actually what he does when he plays games. He's inserted himself and his (ex?)wife into Legend of the Five Rings, and this book is his drat manifesto of roleplaying. It's not like he has dissociative identity disorder or something. Well, bear in mind Play Dirty was written by John Wick shortly after his departure from AEG, and though it's likely Wick was a hard guy to work with, how he was treated at AEG was no doubt infuriating for a young writer, constantly being forced to revise his creative work to fit a marketing plan. (I mean, he worked for Ryan Dancey, which seems like a situation ripe with frustration.) He also struggled with going through a failing marriage and a divorce and a job market that didn't have much of a place for "guy who writes flavor text on CCG cards". And I'm not saying that all as a defense, but I think it's more interesting to consider all that goes into something like Play Dirty than just "well, he's a jerk!" Is he a different person? Of course not. But he's also admitted finding Play Dirty a little embarrassing now, too, but didn't want to sugarcoat or revise who he was at the time. It's also important to note it that it gives a distorted view of Wick as a GM; since he's cherry picking his meanest moments, I don't think we get a great picture of him as a GM. What he shows us isn't very flattering at all, but there are all the victories his players have that get glossed over. The Deleter posted:The Pathfinder comment doesn't work. I agree it's a dumb product, but people are entitled to like it - hell, I used to play it a lot when I was younger. But Play Dirty is not a dumb product, it's a harmful product. Some people have told me Pathfinder is a harmful, poisonous product, too. Somebody even said I may as well be encouraging people play FATAL. If I wanted anything out of that review, it wasn't to get people to stop playing it, but to be more aware of its foibles if they do play it. I don't necessarily want John Wick Presents to fail or implode, but I am certainly expounding on his foibles. The Deleter posted:It advocates that GMs should bully their players, present them with unwinnable situations, corral them into acts that make them feel lovely and stop playing, and to be proud of it. This is literally advocating the stupid behavior that people see when they imagine roleplaying games. The "interesting ideas" are either not original in the slightest, or have been done better by games written by people who don't take it as a point of pride that they're miserable to play with, or aren't miserable to play with full stop. You could time travel to any point in RPG history and find something John Wick has talked about being done better. It's unfair, ugly, and mean, yes. At the same time the articles were written to get a reaction, so I would also not take Wick as the most reliable narrator. Whether he's innovative or not is certainly a point of debate, but at least he's trying, which is more than can be said for a big chunk of the hobby. I just got to the point where his angry outbursts eventually overrode any interest I had in his ideas. The Deleter posted:It angers me that people not only like Play Dirty, but wanted a sequel so much they gave him the money to do it. People deserve better than that. Play Dirty 2 is going to be a different book and I wouldn't sweat it. I don't know if it's going to be a good book, I have serious reservations about giving Wick $10 to find out. And like, 800 people backed for Play Dirty, which may sound like a lot, but it's about the same number of folks that backed for a number of goon projects, despite John Wick being famous enough to have his own chapter in Designers & Dragons. Here's a guy that's inarguably important to the history of our hobby, but he's still only pulling about half the funbux as two goons on their first project. A lot of people boarded the Wick Express but a lot of folks jumped off, too.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:09
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Alien Rope Burn posted:*many words* I would respond here, but I think it would be better if we talked about this elsewhere, on irc or something, so we don't swallow the thread with John Wick chat. I'm interested in debating more with you, though. That said, people who say Pathfinder is actually harmful are wrong - it's bad, but it doesn't encourage GMs to literally ruin games for players. I might give them the tools to do that, but doesn't explicitly tell them to. The Deleter fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 15:23
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theironjef posted:
If you don't know Mojo Nixon then your show could use some fixin'. 
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Dec 4, 2014 15:39
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Evil Mastermind posted:If you don't know Mojo Nixon then your show could use some fixin'. 
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Dec 4, 2014 15:40
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