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I agree completely. Even if the episodes were around two hours long, it only being six episodes would have avoided all the issues they've been having. Granted, I know that given their funding status, they wouldn't have been able to do six episodes at the time; but if their format is to improve at all, they need to go shorter or denser. However, I also understand that the longer they draw it out, the more suspense they build, and then the more of a popular sensation they become. There's not really much good reason for them to do the proper thing in these circumstances.
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Dec 15, 2014 09:47
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God loving drat it goons. Koenig is a journalist . Her job is to report the facts of the case, and in the process of the investigation. And despite what it may seem, the story isn't whether or not Adnan kill Hae, but of a reporter uncovering the story. Our subject is not a storyteller or a sleuth, just a fact-gatherer and reporter. A lot of her reporting and investigation is part of a journalist process of fact checking, a process that was famously loving used in that film you saw Almost Famous. A reporter gets a fact, they get another source to objectively corroborate that fact, and anything that they can't is chucked. This doesn't mean what is objectively true, i.e. is Jay telling the truth, but if an event did happen, i.e. did Jay present this as 'his' truth. As well, a reporter is also beholden to connect the dots for their readers/viewers/listeners to inform the bigger story. Unfortunately, this leaves journalism vulnerable to a lot of biases and corruption, but it is a necessary process to turn facts into a news story. Maybe the process the team at Serial are using are abnormally thorough, but goddamn it that is their prerogative. Especially as the definition of 'journalist' become more and more objective these days. And as much as this podcast may entertain you, it is still a journalistic program. It is not a murder mystery or drama using real events. It is a woman and her team presenting some goddamn facts and events of the story of an investigation. A tweet by Best Buy is a different thing, and to be honest, a little opportunistic of a person's murder. The latest episode wasn't Sarah finding a smoking gun in the guilt of Adnan, it was checking the truth in one rumor she heard. A rumor that was posed as relevant to the murder as possible evidence. Her badgering questions wasn't to crawl under the skin and reveal the murderer, but to check the fact of if Adnan stole. And that fact was used to connect that it could possibly mean psycho-/sociopathic tenancies, but also responsibly pointed out that it is equally if not more likely that it means nothing, especially if he's not guilty. And seriously, if anyone thinks that resolution is at hand, you'd have to willingly ignore the zeitgeist of being the #1 downloaded podcast, investigated by 1000s of individual faux-sherlocks, and the fact that Adnan's upcoming appeal actually becoming a major news story, a fact acknowledged in a recent episode.
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Dec 15, 2014 10:23
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SomeJazzyRat posted:A lot of her reporting and investigation is part of a journalist process of fact checking, a process that was famously loving used in that film you saw Almost Famous. Why would I see any movie that has Kate Hudson in it
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Dec 15, 2014 10:29
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Morroque posted:After all this time, I'm still not entirely convinced that Sarah Koenig really knows what she's doing. Like, I'm really starting to wonder what the purpose of any of this is. SomeJazzyRat blew this out of the water, but I'll reiterate in case someone skips it: Koenig's a journalist. Not only does she know what she's doing, she's done a remarkable job over the past year (and even moreso over the past couple of months). She has maintained from the beginning that it isn't her job to exonerate Adnan or provide narrative closure because that's not what journalists do. You report the story you have, not the story you wish you had.
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Dec 15, 2014 11:42
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If Serial doesn't end with Sarah Koenig breaking Adnan out of prison and replacing him in his cell with the Real Killer then she has basically failed as a journalist.
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Dec 15, 2014 11:54
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The key to understanding the last episode is to think of Serial as a rough simulation of a trial. First few episodes were opening arguments, then we move into evidence and witness statements, then through expert evidence and finally to character evidence/mitigation. It's a crucial part of the process. Incidentally (and not that it really matters), but in my office of judges and law clerks we're all pretty sure that Adnan did it, the real thorny question is whether we'd move to convict if we were on the jury and how much reasonable doubt there is.
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Dec 15, 2014 11:58
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Yeah, I thought there was no way I'd suspect Adnan by the end of this thing, but we've only got one episode to go and I'm on board with the idea that he did it. Not at all on board with the notion that it's beyond all reasonable doubt, though, so I don't think he should be in jail.
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Dec 15, 2014 12:38
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Toaster Beef posted:Yeah, I thought there was no way I'd suspect Adnan by the end of this thing, but we've only got one episode to go and I'm on board with the idea that he did it. Not at all on board with the notion that it's beyond all reasonable doubt, though, so I don't think he should be in jail. And the "why" and the "how" are still very ill-defined. The first is perhaps of only minor importance to the legal process, the "how" should be critical. Why? Uh, he was jealous or something. Even though he said he wasn't and had moved on. How? Somehow or other. Lemme get back to you on that ...
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Dec 15, 2014 13:58
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Toaster Beef posted:SomeJazzyRat blew this out of the water, but I'll reiterate in case someone skips it: Koenig's a journalist. Not only does she know what she's doing, she's done a remarkable job over the past year (and even moreso over the past couple of months). She has maintained from the beginning that it isn't her job to exonerate Adnan or provide narrative closure because that's not what journalists do. I don't entirely disagree but: Maybe Serial isn't intended to be a murder investigation ... although it sometimes acts like one. And some have suggested it's an investigation into the nature of justice / the legal process / character / crime ... and certainly it looks like that at times. Sure, you could say it's about investigating "the story" ... but it's not very clear what the story is. And SK has spent a lot of the podcast on the process of chasing the story, the story of the story. So the confusion is understandable. Insert caveat here about this is a minor complaint and how I've found Serial very interesting. It's just that I can understand where some complaints are coming from.
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Dec 15, 2014 14:05
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Morroque posted:After all this time, I'm still not entirely convinced that Sarah Koenig really knows what she's doing. Like, I'm really starting to wonder what the purpose of any of this is. I'm not really sure what you (or others) are expecting this to lead? PaganGoatPants fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 14:21
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Koenig is absolutely setting this up as an unraveling mystery. Or she did at the outset anyway. It's not just reporting, there's definite narrative construction going on here, and Koenig has been in full control of it. Part of my problem with Serial as a concept is that I think it's kind of morally shaky to treat a real case with real people as a thing where you withhold important revelations until later episodes so they fit into your storytelling method. Treating this as a journalistic expose is disingenuous when in a lot of ways it's more similar to a radio drama that just so happens to involve real people.
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Dec 15, 2014 14:31
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This is basically a whodunit episode of Dateline stretched out into podcast form for effete NPR listeners
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Dec 15, 2014 18:40
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So has anyone decided to use Mailchimp after listening to this podcast? Because it seems like the stupidest app, like who really needs help writing emails outside of maybe grade schoolers.
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Dec 15, 2014 18:51
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facebook jihad posted:So has anyone decided to use Mailchimp after listening to this podcast? Because it seems like the stupidest app, like who really needs help writing emails outside of maybe grade schoolers. To be fair, Mailchimp is really good if you are an oraganization and need to send out cool looking emails with news updates. For individuals, it's not super useful.
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Dec 15, 2014 18:54
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facebook jihad posted:So has anyone decided to use Mailchimp after listening to this podcast? Because it seems like the stupidest app, like who really needs help writing emails outside of maybe grade schoolers. People who manage mailing lists and do emarketing use Mailchimp. It's not meant for internet user "facebook jhad" to email his grandma.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:01
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facebook jihad posted:So has anyone decided to use Mailchimp after listening to this podcast? Because it seems like the stupidest app, like who really needs help writing emails outside of maybe grade schoolers. I use Mailchimp. I DOOO ... at work, when I send out newsletters to hundreds of people. It serves a purpose. They also have really easy to use plugins for CMSs like Wordpress, to get people to sign up for said mailing list. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 19:10
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SomeJazzyRat posted:God loving drat it goons. Koenig is a journalist . Her job is to report the facts of the case, and in the process of the investigation. And despite what it may seem, the story isn't whether or not Adnan kill Hae, but of a reporter uncovering the story. I can't believe people expect more than that. It's a fantastic podcast as it is, It doesn't need to end with SK breaking Adnan out of prison or anything similar. Those that complain must subscribe to the Michael Bay school of thought that everything needs to end with an epic finale. This is a real case.. if reality isn't enough then you have been reading too much fanfic or something
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Dec 15, 2014 19:45
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I'm thinking that by now, the majority of people reading and posting in this thread get that the point of the podcast is not to exonerate Adnan Syed. It looks more like people are trying to figure out what the podcast has ended up trying to do, if it even knows what it is doing, and if it's any drat good at doing it. I personally am not convinced it is a purely objective journalistic effort to dig up and examine facts. doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 21:04
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This is a TAL spinoff. You guys should go look at TAL's goals, and what they look at when they request submissions. They tell stories. The goal of Serial and TAL is to tell a story with an arc. That's what they're trying to do. Does the payoff of the Serial story need to have a firm resolution? Well that's for you to decide.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:18
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Tater Love 
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Mail...k..kimp?
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Dec 15, 2014 21:18
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The podcast was never about solving the mystery, it was about looking at this particular case and going "welp, the justice system is hosed."
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Dec 15, 2014 21:22
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It's going to end with "What if I told you I did it... Next season on Serial"
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Dec 15, 2014 21:45
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African AIDS cum posted:This is basically a whodunit episode of Dateline stretched out into podcast form for effete NPR listeners And this is why it rules. Though I do enjoy Keith Morrison's campy rear end.
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Dec 15, 2014 23:37
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CortezFantastic posted:Mail...k..kimp? "Chimp." "........shimp?" Def my favourite part of each episode.
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Dec 16, 2014 00:39
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doctorfrog posted:It looks more like people are trying to figure out what the podcast has ended up trying to do Entertain. Mission accomplished.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:05
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zakharov posted:This is a TAL spinoff. You guys should go look at TAL's goals, and what they look at when they request submissions. They tell stories. The goal of Serial and TAL is to tell a story with an arc. That's what they're trying to do. Over the last couple of years TAL has moved more towards doing actual journalism instead of stories about random poo poo like some Jewish kid's experience getting poison ivy at summer camp in upstate New York. Their coverage of the 2008 financial crisis is one prominent example, but they've also done smaller stories that are similar to Serial, like their coverage of that messed up drug court in Tennesse or whatever. That story is almost a prototype of Serial. Their response to the whole Mike Daisy fiasco with Apple also showed that they are actually really interested in journalism, and journalism ethics. I don't think they are simply trying to tell a story with an arc with Serial, or even with a lot of TAL these days. I think they are using what they learned about telling stories with an arc to create a compelling narrative though, and are trying to mix that with actual serious journalism. It was working really well for the first five or so episodes, too.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:11
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ozza posted:"Chimp." I use mail chimp. "You do?!?"
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Dec 16, 2014 02:24
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Dear Prudence posted:Entertain. Mission accomplished. Next season will be an 8-hour long squirrel fable, narrated in rhyming couplets by dour young New York "writers." USE A MAIL CHIMP.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:35
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doctorfrog posted:Next season will be an 8-hour long squirrel fable, narrated in rhyming couplets by dour young New York "writers."
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Dec 16, 2014 06:50
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deliver high fives
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Dec 16, 2014 12:28
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This is glorious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9UXw0X16TQ
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Dec 16, 2014 14:33
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The Mail Chimp ad definitely works cause two different companies I was subbed too sent me emails using them since.
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Dec 16, 2014 15:46
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There is a survey out for Serial listeners for anyone so inclined. I'm not affiliated, just thought I'd pass it along to give people a potentially academically cited outlet to gripe that there should/should not be a resolution at the end.
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Dec 16, 2014 15:51
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facebook jihad posted:So has anyone decided to use Mailchimp after listening to this podcast? Because it seems like the stupidest app, like who really needs help writing emails outside of maybe grade schoolers. My neighbourhood association uses it to send out newsletters to locals. They seem to like it and be able to use it easily enough, and this is after me trying to get them to use Google groups for the same purpose for years. nonathlon fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 15:54
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We used it to send out our monthly calendar at our theater to people that had signed up for our newsletter. It works really well for that sort of thing. Creepily, it can also tell you who opened up your email, and when.
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Dec 16, 2014 20:34
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Well, guess more people use a mailchimp than I thought
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Dec 16, 2014 23:36
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Josh Lyman posted:This is glorious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcn4Ps5c1Bs
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Dec 16, 2014 23:38
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Antifreeze Head posted:There is a survey out for Serial listeners for anyone so inclined. Thank you for the link.
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Dec 17, 2014 04:22
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We use Constant Contact at my job but I can't figure out a cute way to mispronounce it. I just marathoned through this podcast starting on Sunday and caught up with the thread. I agree that treating this as anything other than entertainment is stupid, but having the early episodes fresh in my mind I can definitely see why some people have clung to the implication of this leading somewhere beyond fact-checking journalism. Guess we'll see tomorrow? Glad I didn't listen week to week. That thanksgiving break would have been awful.
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Dec 17, 2014 14:41
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fullroundaction posted:We use Constant Contact at my job but I can't figure out a cute way to mispronounce it. Constant Contact bros! I also started this late - around episode 7, so I already knew that there were issues about the "end" and I actually think that tempered my response to it. I've enjoyed hearing about the case but I really never expected this to be a situation where SK blows the case wide open with her podcast.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:15
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