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Man this thread is reminding me that I need to read HF again or something. I totally forgot about all the intricacies of the Holy Grail and poo poo like that. Oh well
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 15:20 |
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# ? Apr 24, 2024 11:58 |
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Nate RFB posted:If a Reality Marble is "just" a spell, and the underlying soul doesn't really matter, then why can't it be passed down like any other spell via a family magic crest? It should be possible with this line of thinking. Even if you go the route of "well, it's a spell that only works if you have the same aptitude/affinity/origin for the element in question" that doesn't explain how Shirou was unable to utilize Archer's UBW in Heaven's Feel. At the time he rejected it because Archer's world and Shirou's world were "different" and thus incompatible. They aren't different actually, Rin mentions in HF True that Shirou can eventually achieve UBW.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 15:30 |
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I just kind of assumed that Shirou couldn't use Archer's Reality Marble because their life experiences were too different. He can still create his own Unlimited Blade Works eventually because of all (or some) of the nonsense we just beanplated to death, but Archer's was shaped by the ideals he upheld (and Shirou discarded).
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 15:41 |
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Effectronica posted:So in other words, the three houses are guaranteed a position so long as they have someone who fits the criteria, but anyone who fits those criteria can join the war by summoning a Servant.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 15:42 |
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Rodyle posted:They aren't different actually, Rin mentions in HF True that Shirou can eventually achieve UBW. jellycat posted:I just kind of assumed that Shirou couldn't use Archer's Reality Marble because their life experiences were too different. He can still create his own Unlimited Blade Works eventually because of all (or some) of the nonsense we just beanplated to death, but Archer's was shaped by the ideals he upheld (and Shirou discarded). E: God this is nerdier than power level discussions. Next we should dissect the Shikis' mystic eyes. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Dec 17, 2014 |
# ? Dec 17, 2014 15:52 |
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Nate RFB posted:But that's my point, if it's "just a spell" then stuff about life experiences shouldn't matter. The only thing that seemingly should matter is knowing how the spell works and I suppose having some sort of affinity for the magic in question. Ah, well I'm saying that stuff about life experiences does matter and that's why it's not "just a spell"! You can't recreate someone else's Reality Marble through any amount of research because it's the manifestation of one's own unique inner reality. That's part of why the Mage's Association hunts down any magi who are capable of using a Reality Marble, it's why Shirou's Unlimited Blade Works is different from Archer's, and why he can't use Archer's in Heaven's Feel.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 16:14 |
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Shirou started getting a crest before he summoned a servant though, I always assumed from Ilya's threat that she had some hand in it. The grail played favorites and had already set aside the Saber slot for him.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 16:22 |
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I think it's mega cool that Shiro's UBW is a barren field of swords compared to Archer's which has cogs and metal works going on with a thick layer of dust in the air.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 17:21 |
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Kyte posted:The grail played favorites and had already set aside the Saber slot for him.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 18:03 |
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Paracelsus posted:I presumed that was causality wonkiness, sort of like how Rin's jewel ended up being a catalyst to summon Archer Emiya because it would be used to heal Shirou from near-death a few days later. Not really certain on this one, but I've always though that it was Archer's pendant that made Rin summon him.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 18:24 |
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Rin used it to heal Shirou, who would I guess in one timeline kept it for the rest of his life and thus become attuned to him; thus in other timelines when she uses it to summon a Servant since its attuned to the Shirou that becomes Archer it summoned Archer.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 18:46 |
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Aumanor posted:Not really certain on this one, but I've always though that it was Archer's pendant that made Rin summon him. They both have the same pendant, basically. He gave his back to her after she uses hers on Shirou and he realizes finally where it came from, and Shirou keeps the one she left.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 19:23 |
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Aumanor posted:Not really certain on this one, but I've always though that it was Archer's pendant that made Rin summon him. quote:"Tohsaka Rin did not have a catalyst to summon a heroic spirit.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 19:30 |
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I was just thinking how if servants can be summoned from any point in time and the vast majority of servants (literally every one except archer?) come from the past, that means the world must be ending soon!
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 19:39 |
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Ytlaya posted:I was just thinking how if servants can be summoned from any point in time and the vast majority of servants (literally every one except archer?) come from the past, that means the world must be ending soon! Modern humans can't become Servants (or at least it's a vanishingly small chance) because... something Alaya spread too thin, lack of fame, the weapon gets the credit now yadda yadda.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 19:41 |
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Well, setting aside the quirky circumstances behind how Archer got summoned how do you obtain a catalyst for a hero who doesn't yet exist?
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 19:43 |
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Nate RFB posted:Well, setting aside the quirky circumstances behind how Archer got summoned how do you obtain a catalyst for a hero who doesn't yet exist? You cant know, because it hasnt happened yet. It could be anything.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 19:47 |
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The hero'd need a catalyst for you. And the chances of that are vanishingly small. Which is of course why Archer had one.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 20:48 |
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It's also hinted in fate/extra that Archer's red cloth is made by Rin. It gives +100 MP, about 1/3 of a servant's MP.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 21:23 |
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Nyaa posted:It's also hinted in fate/extra that Archer's red cloth is made by Rin. It gives +100 MP, about 1/3 of a servant's MP. I recall Nasu mentioning he got it from Ciel at some point.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 21:41 |
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Rodyle posted:I recall Nasu mentioning he got it from Ciel at some point. There's no reason why both explanations can't be right. There are a lot of parallel universe Archers.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 21:54 |
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Rin makes Archer's cloak, but it gets lost in the mail and Ciel gets it instead, then she delivers it to him.
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# ? Dec 17, 2014 22:01 |
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I could be simply that Ciel gets the cloth for it, and that Rin tailors it into a cloak. Cause it was apparently originally a holy shroud.
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# ? Dec 18, 2014 02:05 |
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Myurton posted:I could be simply that Ciel gets the cloth for it, and that Rin tailors it into a cloak. Cause it was apparently originally a holy shroud. However Rin is horrible with sewing machines, accidentally cuts the drat thing into 3 pieces, and then gives the mangled piece of fabric to Shirou. Shirou fixes it and puts it over a back bodysuit to hide how ridiculous it looks otherwise. Rin takes credit.
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# ? Dec 18, 2014 02:20 |
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So yesterday I watched Fate/Zero with my brother, whose only other Type-Moon experience has been watching the UBW anime with me and our sis every Saturday. He has a pretty negative opinion of UBW - basically saying that the fights are cool but the characters act in dumb and contrived ways (which is totally true for the first half of UBW), but he absolutely loved the first five episodes of Fate/Zero. He laughed for a minute straight when it was shown that Kiritsugu fights with guns, and all he could talk about when we finished watching was how awesome Rider is.To be fair, he said that having already watched the slower UBW anime let him jump into the much more chaotic F/Z without having to try and figure out what the Servant classes are or what the hell a Noble Phantasm is. Hilariously, he totally hasn't connected the Golden Haired Guy talking to Shinji in UBW 10 to Gilgamesh in F/Z, so he keeps speculating how Gil is going to be defeated since Gate of Babylon seems so overpowered.
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# ? Dec 18, 2014 20:52 |
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Scrree posted:So yesterday I watched Fate/Zero with my brother, whose only other Type-Moon experience has been watching the UBW anime with me and our sis every Saturday. He has a pretty negative opinion of UBW - basically saying that the fights are cool but the characters act in dumb and contrived ways (which is totally true for the first half of UBW), but he absolutely loved the first five episodes of Fate/Zero. He laughed for a minute straight when it was shown that Kiritsugu fights with guns, and all he could talk about when we finished watching was how awesome Rider is.To be fair, he said that having already watched the slower UBW anime let him jump into the much more chaotic F/Z without having to try and figure out what the Servant classes are or what the hell a Noble Phantasm is. That last part is definitely chuckle worthy. Gotta wonder what your bro will feel like when F/Z ends and everyone dies.
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# ? Dec 18, 2014 21:02 |
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Lt. Lizard posted:I don't think Tokiomi knew that Zouken never intended to make Sakura a heir and was turning her into a disposable grail vessel for the next Grail War and would definitely have some issues with that, but I bet he knew all about Zouken rape worms and what it takes to grant the Matou magic to someone and just considered it a fair price for becoming the heir of a major Magi family. There's also the issue of the sealing designation: from the F/Z LN: quote:If only he would be able to pass the treasure that he got from his father onto his daughter – And Tokiomi doesn't know the exact nature of Kariya's magic, typical magi family knowledge are kept as secrets. So he would definitely wouldn't know about the more extensive procedure done especially for Sakura. And Zouken wasn't preparing Sakura for the next grail war, 1) he was more planing for the generation after Sakura, 2) the next grail war happened too soon for his plans (due to the leftover excess mana) 3) He only thought about using some pieces of the lesser grail when it was deliberately destroyed. That was why he was fine with Sakura not involving in the 5th grail war.
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 03:24 |
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BlitzBlast posted:They're of the extremist "all non-humans must die and anything out of the ordinary is evil" kind, which kind of sucks when your cast is full of non-humans or wizards. But the Executors and Burial Agency generally welcomes all sorts of freaks, for example, Merem Solomon one of the Dead Apostle Ancestors is an official member of the Burial Agency.
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 03:30 |
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:I really didn't think this fight was bullshit at all. He had the advantage of surprise, which is his specialty as an assassin. He had the skill to match a legendary warrior from his years of being a professional killer. Plus his attacks were being visibly strengthened by Caster who, if you don't remember, is a servant whose main specialty is magic. It's not really crazy that he could match a servant under those conditions. quote:Kuzuki was an assassin trained from birth to learn nothing but the same technique. His snake fist was specifically stated to be able to even deceive expert fighters. But since it is a technique of deceit at heart, experts fighters can easily learn to deal with it after witnessing it. and Caster's reinforcement magic does buff his physical capabilities, including speed. quote:Fate/Side Material - Encyclopedia: Reinforcement [Magecraft], p.058-059
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 03:37 |
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Man, I knew the F/Z novels had a subpar translation but I didn't think it'd be that bad.
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 03:37 |
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Pureauthor posted:Modern humans can't become Servants (or at least it's a vanishingly small chance) because... something Alaya spread too thin, lack of fame, the weapon gets the credit now yadda yadda. It have to due more with the cynicism of modern humans, heroic spirits are shaped by the people's perception of the heroes at the the time. Modern humans are far less likely to believe in supernatural or superhuman capabilities so they don't think any of the 'heroes' are beyond human abilities. You need to be actually Superhuman/Supernatural or have the people of the era to believe that you are to qualifies (I think being worshipped is an optional requirements). And modern weapons made many feats less impressive to people. For example it is incredible for a human with a sword to kill 500 people, but it is far less impressive to do that with a machine gun. Counter Guardians are typically a different case though. Randomzx fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Dec 19, 2014 |
# ? Dec 19, 2014 03:44 |
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I like the parts of UBW when they draw Archer to look like Shirou because he still looks like archer when they do it and it's cool this is one of the many things im looking forward to seeing adapted, thanks for listening
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:03 |
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Here's a list of some of the things I'm really looking forward to being animated: - Unlimited Blade Works - Archer and Shirou's duel - Shirou's Unlimited Blade Works in the HF movies - Nine Bullet Revolver - The sparks liner high OVA which they will make - kotomine and shirou having a fist fight to the death while shirou turns into swords some epic stuff ahead, fellow anime fans
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:11 |
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Cake Attack posted:Here's a list of some of the things I'm really looking forward to being animated: I'm excited.
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:13 |
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As am I.
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:15 |
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After having watched F/Z with me and now UBW with me, my friend also thinks Shirou is a boring character and that Kiritsugu is better. I just don't understand this but I guess it's hard to detach myself since I've played the VN
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:19 |
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Cake Attack posted:Here's a list of some of the things I'm really looking forward to being animated: There's also "Lance of sure hit, shield of no loss", as far as flashy fights go. But what I'm looking forward to the most is "End of a hero".
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:38 |
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Aumanor posted:There's also "Lance of sure hit, shield of no loss", as far as flashy fights go. But what I'm looking forward to the most is "End of a hero". i don't remember what either of these are, lol, but they sound epic
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:39 |
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The first one I think was the showdown between Lancer and Archer where Lancer throws Gae Bolg and Archer projects that shield thing. Think the other one was Berzerker's death.
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:43 |
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# ? Apr 24, 2024 11:58 |
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Aumanor posted:There's also "Lance of sure hit, shield of no loss", as far as flashy fights go. But what I'm looking forward to the most is "End of a hero". Cake Attack posted:i don't remember what either of these are, lol, but they sound epic I think the former is Archer vs Lancer with thrown Gae Bolg vs Rho Aius, which will be amazing animated. End of a Hero is when Lancer is told to kill himself via Kotomine's Command Seal, stabs himself, offs Kotomine, scares off Shinji, rescues Rin, and finally starts the fire before dying that burns down Einzbern Castle and drives off Gil when he's about to kill Shirou at the conclusion of his battle with Archer because he doesn't want to get ash on his clothing. I hope they devote the better part of an episode to that entire scene.
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# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:47 |