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Ahh, Maid. The game where the translator had a character sodomized in the example of play, by mistake.
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Dec 22, 2014 03:30
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Finishing up the podcast, I think the question of "who plays something like Maid? misapprehends the tone. It's that weird anime thing where the sexuality is generally played for laughs, in theory... but it goes too far. I'm reminded of an old anime called Sorcerer Hunters that would constantly bust out S&M as a punchline (I was about to type "gags", but, well...), and it's loaded with sexual kinks in a very creepy an ignorant way, intending it as humorous, but it got me to generally walk out of the anime club whenever it came up. And I think Maid is very similar in that regard - it's not intended for folks to do hardcore sex RP, but is stuck in that weird anime tease realm where characters constantly try and inflict their desires and kinks on others but the stories often stop short of actual sex, or veil the sex in some bizarre metaphor. It's a sort of weird ignorance in the anime subculture where you have that kind of thing that is a joke because it makes the characters uncomfortable without realizing that it makes a lot of readers uncomfortable. It's very exploitative, crass, and inappropriate, but lack of self-awareness is a perennial trait of anime fandom, even if things are (slowly) starting to change, at least here in America.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:01
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Finishing up the podcast, I think the question of "who plays something like Maid? misapprehends the tone. It's that weird anime thing where the sexuality is generally played for laughs, in theory... but it goes too far. I'm reminded of an old anime called Sorcerer Hunters that would constantly bust out S&M as a punchline (I was about to type "gags", but, well...), and it's loaded with sexual kinks in a very creepy an ignorant way, intending it as humorous, but it got me to generally walk out of the anime club whenever it came up. And I think Maid is very similar in that regard - it's not intended for folks to do hardcore sex RP, but is stuck in that weird anime tease realm where characters constantly try and inflict their desires and kinks on others but the stories often stop short of actual sex, or veil the sex in some bizarre metaphor. It's a sort of weird ignorance in the anime subculture where you have that kind of thing that is a joke because it makes the characters uncomfortable without realizing that it makes a lot of readers uncomfortable. I've still never met a group of people that I enjoyed gaming with, but thought "the only way we can really enhance our Sunday game night is if each of us has embarrassing boners and we verbally detail our personal sexual fantasies. Also, dice rolling".
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Dec 22, 2014 07:16
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neonchameleon posted:One of my friends calls it the 'mo people, 'mo problems scale. That the bigger your footprint in the game is the more the game comes up with problems for you to solve and the less able to solve the in-game problems on your own you are. This isn't a bad description for what it's like playing a hardholder. You find yourself leaning on the other PCs to help solve your problems, at least the ones who aren't adding to them. Mind, there're some problems that you can solve with violence or the threat of violence. They're just not the complicated ones.
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Dec 22, 2014 09:19
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Alien Rope Burn posted:It's that weird anime thing where the sexuality is generally played for laughs, in theory... Just to briefly mention it, it's not like the sexual farce isn't a cultural mainstay in the west too. It's been around since the ancient Greeks in the form of satyr plays as well as general comedies about sex. There are many farces where the primary source of entertainment is the raunchy situations the characters constantly get into. So to say that sexuality being played for laughs is a "weird anime thing" is kind of strange to me since it's been such a big part of western culture as well for centuries... just not generally in the form of cartoons, and perhaps not with quite as many 11-year old boys (well, I don't know about the ancient Greeks...). Naturally, the Japanese approach to the sex farce is going to be different in the details from what we're used to here, but the basic premise is pretty close to humanly universal. Nevertheless the big question remains of why you would want to sit down at a table with a bunch of people who you're also going to be playing Magic: the Gathering with next week and roleplay out a sex comedy involving housekeeping staff. I just can't see any way that this wouldn't be tremendously awkward, even sans rampant concealed boners, unless you go to some length and excise all the naughty bits and just do straight up PG-13 "bake Master the best cake for his birthday" type play.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:26
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Just to briefly mention it, it's not like the sexual farce isn't a cultural mainstay in the west too. It's been around since the ancient Greeks in the form of satyr plays as well as general comedies about sex. As a Brit, Maid appears to be aimed at about the same tone of comedy as the (for some reason much loved) Carry On films. Although there aren't the same underage issues in Carry On films (not that they aren't vastly problematic in their own ways).
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Dec 22, 2014 11:54
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homeless poster posted:I've still never met a group of people that I enjoyed gaming with, but thought "the only way we can really enhance our Sunday game night is if each of us has embarrassing boners and we verbally detail our personal sexual fantasies. Also, dice rolling". so you've never played monsterhearts then (hue hue hue)
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Dec 22, 2014 15:45
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Finishing up the podcast, I think the question of "who plays something like Maid? misapprehends the tone. It's that weird anime thing where the sexuality is generally played for laughs, in theory... but it goes too far. I'm reminded of an old anime called Sorcerer Hunters that would constantly bust out S&M as a punchline (I was about to type "gags", but, well...), and it's loaded with sexual kinks in a very creepy an ignorant way, intending it as humorous, but it got me to generally walk out of the anime club whenever it came up. And I think Maid is very similar in that regard - it's not intended for folks to do hardcore sex RP, but is stuck in that weird anime tease realm where characters constantly try and inflict their desires and kinks on others but the stories often stop short of actual sex, or veil the sex in some bizarre metaphor. It's a sort of weird ignorance in the anime subculture where you have that kind of thing that is a joke because it makes the characters uncomfortable without realizing that it makes a lot of readers uncomfortable. I think anime clubs are going to suffer a similar problem that this game will, namely that the average issue of La Blue Girl isn't meant to be read by five people at once. I wonder if hentai discussion circles are common after class in Japan, or if that's an American phenomenon. I feel like if I went to a "what did you do on the internet all week club" I'd probably want to walk out when everyone got to the Redtube part of the event instead of sharing, too. Oh well, next week we'll be doing some other fantasy heartbreaker and can shake the anime out of our heads for a while, til someone sends us a copy of Bliss Stage or something.
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Dec 22, 2014 17:26
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theironjef posted:til someone sends us a copy of Bliss Stage or something. Is that a request? 
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Dec 22, 2014 18:05
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Kurieg posted:Is that a request? It's on the recent request list along with the regular suspects you'd expect. Commenting listeners want FATAL, they want Bliss Stage, they want various flavors of D&D, Rifts, and GURPS. Also a surprising amount of requests for Twilight Imperium, which I'm sure we'll honor at some point. My deep fear with Bliss Stage is that everyone recommending it says "If you guys didn't like this one sexy anime game, you WILL like this other sexy sex game."
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Dec 22, 2014 18:14
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theironjef posted:It's on the recent request list along with the regular suspects you'd expect. Commenting listeners want FATAL, they want Bliss Stage, they want various flavors of D&D, Rifts, and GURPS. Also a surprising amount of requests for Twilight Imperium, which I'm sure we'll honor at some point. Nah - unless it's that one guy who is always talking about making a Bliss Stage Visual Novel, most people tend to knock it. While Maid can be played PG-13, Bliss Stage is explicitly about emotional manipulation and underaged sex
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Dec 22, 2014 18:35
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I got one for you to review: Hobomancer. I'm actually finishing up the PDF and the game is really interesting. It's also a QAGS game, so you can probably wrap up several other games into one podcast.
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Dec 22, 2014 19:16
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Tasoth posted:I got one for you to review: Hobomancer. I'm actually finishing up the PDF and the game is really interesting. It's also a QAGS game, so you can probably wrap up several other games into one podcast. You know I think that might have come up in discussion at one point between the two of us but had fallen off the radar. It's completely right for the podcast though, definitely putting it on the shortlist.
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Dec 22, 2014 19:21
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Just to briefly mention it, it's not like the sexual farce isn't a cultural mainstay in the west too. It's been around since the ancient Greeks in the form of satyr plays as well as general comedies about sex. There are many farces where the primary source of entertainment is the raunchy situations the characters constantly get into. So to say that sexuality being played for laughs is a "weird anime thing" is kind of strange to me since it's been such a big part of western culture as well for centuries... just not generally in the form of cartoons, and perhaps not with quite as many 11-year old boys (well, I don't know about the ancient Greeks...). Naturally, the Japanese approach to the sex farce is going to be different in the details from what we're used to here, but the basic premise is pretty close to humanly universal. I didn't mean to say it's unique to Japan, but some of the details are. Mainly, the division between ecchi and hentai (or more properly, oiroke and seijin manga) is key. Maid leans more towards ecchi than outright hentai, so I think labeling it a vehicle for actual sex RP isn't actually correct . Sex is undoubtedly an element but it doesn't dwell on actual sexual acts. It may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but I think it's a big part of how those ideas can seem acceptable for Maid at Japanese gaming tables, where the titillation has a weird modesty and often paired with humor. Lumping it in with La Blue Girl or Urotsukidoji strikes me as inaccurate, and I don't say that as a defense of the regressive elements in Maid, but that a description of it being a vehicle for blue balls is likely an exaggeration mainly because of how those elements are treated. I don't intend that as a defense of those regressive and creepy elements, but just as an explanation of them. That's not to say Maid couldn't spill over into outright hentai very easily, but I would be surprised if a lot of groups play it that way.
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Dec 22, 2014 19:57
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theironjef posted:It's on the recent request list along with the regular suspects you'd expect. Commenting listeners want FATAL, they want Bliss Stage, they want various flavors of D&D, Rifts, and GURPS. Also a surprising amount of requests for Twilight Imperium, which I'm sure we'll honor at some point. Well for what it's worth I really want you to review Bliss Stage and I know you'll hate it.
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Dec 22, 2014 20:19
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theironjef posted:It's on the recent request list along with the regular suspects you'd expect. Commenting listeners want FATAL, they want Bliss Stage, they want various flavors of D&D, Rifts, and GURPS. Also a surprising amount of requests for Twilight Imperium, which I'm sure we'll honor at some point. You can get it for the low low price of $0 at the author's site. And I would love to hear someone talk about Bliss Stage, it's a bad game, but in a pretty interesting way, I think.
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Dec 22, 2014 20:57
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Tulul posted:You can get it for the low low price of $0 at the author's site. Yeah, I've read like half of it this morning so far. I'm sure we'll do it eventually.
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Dec 22, 2014 21:03
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I didn't mean to say it's unique to Japan, but some of the detailsintent Mainly, the division between ecchi and hentai (or more properly, oiroke and seijin manga) is key. Maid leans more towards ecchi than outright hentai, so I think labeling it a vehicle for actual sex RP isn't actually correct . Sex is undoubtedly an element but it doesn't dwell on actual sexual acts. It may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but I think it's a big part of how those ideas can seem acceptable for Maid at Japanese gaming tables, where the titillation has a weird modesty and often paired with humor. Lumping it in with La Blue Girl or Urotsukidoji strikes me as inaccurate, and I don't say that as a defense of the regressive elements in Maid, but that a description of it being a vehicle for blue balls is likely an exaggeration mainly because of how those elements are treated. I don't intend that as a defense of those regressive and creepy elements, but just as an explanation of them. Oh, just to be clear, I totally agree with you on this point. In fact, the translator says outright that the intent behind the game is risqué humor and not porn, but they had real trouble getting this across and actually cut some stuff. I am down with the idea that a Japanese audience would see that more readily. However, my point is I can't actually see that working out without getting awkward either. Neither the porn RPG nor the sex comedy RPG sound like things I'd like to do, and I kinda can't see how you'd make it work either I guess?
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Dec 22, 2014 21:15
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One thing to keep in mind with Japanese RPGs in general, not just Maid, is that they generally assume you're playing in a public space. Like at school, or a a rented location in a store (Karaoke booths are pretty common since there's a table and chairs and a drink service) . So that kind of encourages to keep things low key, or at least, not much past the level of "Same sort of dirty jokes people start telling with a couple of drinks in them."
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Dec 22, 2014 21:22
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To be fair, though, I think being able to game in a karoke-bar-style private room where you can order drinks and snacks would be pretty sweet.
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Dec 22, 2014 21:38
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Tulul posted:You can get it for the low low price of $0 at the author's site. Bliss Stage got reviewed in one of the earlier threads here.
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Dec 22, 2014 21:39
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Hey, did someone mention roleplaying games with underage sex?Gazetteer posted:Not that you'd actually want to take any of the Beast's moves, as it is literally the single worst and most broken PbtA playbook I have ever seen for any game. The Ancient The Ancient's gimmick is that it is a Lovecraftian deity pretending to be a human. Everything about this Skin--the origin, backstory, moves, and playing advice--makes it clear that you are not an angsty teenager who is also a monster. No, you're Cthulhu wearing a meat-suit, and you have no recognizable human motivations or relationships at all. And this isn't a joke Skin--the author fully expects you to play your character as Zalgo in high school. Name: "A mythological name" and "a unpronounceable name" sum it up, and the examples include "Alhazred" and "Tchphlch." You are expected to introduce yourself to your homeroom class as Mhl’gyroth Allen Peabody, of the Boston Peabodys. Look: The options here are all overblown, like having a "slimy" or "impossible" look and eyes "of nothingness” or “of the void.” The void’s not the same as nothingness, I suppose. Origin: Except for the option to be a cultist, all the options are the same thing restated different ways: you’re a Lovecraftian god in a human shell. Elder Form: Like the name of the Infernal’s dark power, this is part of your description and not a Move in itself. You’re supposed to pick 2-4 traits from suggestions such as “impossible angles,” “amorphous blasphemy,” and “blob of suppurated pus.” Backstory: You take 2 Strings on someone whose sanity you’ve unhinged, and someone you “can’t figure out” gets 2 Strings on you. The Ancient’s good stats are Cold and Dark. It has no set move, and picks two Skin moves. Elder Horror automatically inflicts the Madness Condition and a roll to hold steady on anyone who sees your Elder Form. Cosmic Horror gives you +1 on rolls against anyone with the Madness Condition. Using a Condition against someone already gets you +1. The author doesn’t know how Conditions work. Unspeakable Holiness gives you +2 to hold steady in “fearful or insane” situations. When does that not apply to holding steady? Ancient Gospel is basically stolen from Apocalypse World’s Hocus playbook. It allows you to roll Dark to manipulate a crowd giving you things, becoming your followers, or entering an orgy of joy, grief, sex, or violence. Dark Omen allows you to predict that “horrible things” will happen to someone by rolling Dark. On a 7-9, they get to take a String on you or place a Condition on you. However, you can give them a command and cancel the omen if they obey. Beacon for the wicked allows you to roll Dark+1 to summon and give commands to anyone who has the Madness condition. Sex Move: When you have sex with someone, they gain the Madness Condition. Darkest Self: You transform into your Elder Form, “spreading fear, madness, and destruction.” Of course, there is no mechanical benefit to your Elder Form, and unlike the werewolf you don’t even have a good Volatile stat. If you didn’t take Eldar Horror, all this means is that you lurch around making people go “Egads! A giant blob of suppurated pus! It’s even slimier than that weird kid from homeroom!” Worse yet, you only leave your Darkest Self “when some sort of convoluted, out of nowhere plot twist hits you in the face.” What? As far as Playing the Ancient goes, the author fully admits that the Ancient’s only schtick is to try to inflict Madness on everyone, mainly through shutting someone down, and that everything it does plays off of driving people crazy and loving them up. It says “The ancient is a creature unfathomable to the human brain. It's not necessarily all-mighty or all-powerful, but it is of an alien nature that the human brain just cannot process and understand.” It goes on to say “What does it mean to be a teenager and an ancient?” The answer is that it doesn’t mean anything! You just said that the Ancient is not really a person. The same author concocted The Nymph (a nymph who wants to sex everyone) and The God (literally a god) for Monsterhearts, as well as The Butcher (a cannibal butcher) and The Joker (literally Heath Ledger) for Apocalypse World. The Ancient is the worst of the lot. It could just as well be a Skin called "The Bob-omb." It's schtick is "You are actually a nuclear bomb with a face painted on it. Roll Volatile to explode and kill everyone."
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Dec 22, 2014 21:54
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I was going to say "stop talking about games with underage sex you loving weirdos" but considering some of the playbooks I've got coming up... 
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Dec 22, 2014 21:58
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I feel like the Bom-Omb's stats would be Hot and Volatile. Hot because A: puns and B: because you could get people to worship you and fear you Planet of the Apes style and Volatile because, well, ain't no such thing as a calm bomb. Are there any good "tantrum characters" in MonsterHearts or made for it? What I mean by that is "I have a shtick, I have a worldview, and I am GOOD at doing what I do. And when I can't do what I do, poo poo gets ruined because I can't be me and I will punish you all for denying me my pleasure". I'm not saying that a tantrum character would be pleasant to play with, because the game would revolve around appeasement, but I'm just wondering if any could be construed as such.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:31
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Pretty sure that's literally the Werewolf, down to the high stats, but I'm not certain on that.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:35
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Davin Valkri posted:Pretty sure that's literally the Werewolf, down to the high stats, but I'm not certain on that.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:37
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pkfan2004 posted:The werewolf is...a timebomb, not a tantrum. Yeah there's some things that let you wolf out to overcome your problems, but most of the time you don't transform out of spite. Being around a werewolf is counting down to when the beast comes out, not "I WILL TURN INTO A WEREWOLF AND TAKE THE BIGGEST DOGSHIT IN YOUR WOUNDS IF YOU DON'T LET ME CUT 3RD PERIOD ALGEBRA". Tantrum classes are about spite. Guess that's kind of the Witches Darkest Self? Or possibly the Infernal. But since those are actually well designed they lack the utterly disruptive aspect. There's plenty of spite and selfishness in Monsterhearts, it just uses that to propell things forward instead of shutting everything down until the character is appeased.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:46
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pkfan2004 posted:Are there any good "tantrum characters" in MonsterHearts or made for it? What I mean by that is "I have a shtick, I have a worldview, and I am GOOD at doing what I do. And when I can't do what I do, poo poo gets ruined because I can't be me and I will punish you all for denying me my pleasure". I'm not saying that a tantrum character would be pleasant to play with, because the game would revolve around appeasement, but I'm just wondering if any could be construed as such.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:48
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Halloween Jack posted:The Ancient Okay, yes, that skin is utterly incompetent for basically being beamed in from an entirely different genre and really not fitting in with how the game is supposed to work at all. I mean, one thing you can say for Topher's skins is that he seems to understand what Monsterhearts is supposed to play like, he's just not always great about reflecting it in his mechanics. Whoever made this skin is like... bad on a completely different level. pkfan2004 posted:I feel like the Bom-Omb's stats would be Hot and Volatile. Hot because A: puns and B: because you could get people to worship you and fear you Planet of the Apes style and Volatile because, well, ain't no such thing as a calm bomb. Are there any good "tantrum characters" in MonsterHearts or made for it? What I mean by that is "I have a shtick, I have a worldview, and I am GOOD at doing what I do. And when I can't do what I do, poo poo gets ruined because I can't be me and I will punish you all for denying me my pleasure". I'm not saying that a tantrum character would be pleasant to play with, because the game would revolve around appeasement, but I'm just wondering if any could be construed as such. The Wyrm's whole thing is like, carefully and meticulously collecting strings on everyone they want to control and maintaining that control whenever possible. Then their darkest self results in them flipping poo poo and just trying to forcefully remind their Treasures (characters who they specifically want to "collect") that they are in control, and quite possibly turning into a giant dragon monster at an inopportune moment (the Wyrm has access to the ability to turn into a big scary dragon once per session, but after they do this they're really vulnerable, so it's more like a nuclear option where the threat of it is more valuable than actually using it recklessly). Under the Second Skins refers to this whole process as "stomping all over their toys". So... they have a big meltdown and maybe attack some people, but they also probably wreck whatever plans they'd put into motion over the course of the game. And it works, because most of the time the Wyrm is a really low-key skin who kind of quietly plots in the background, and all of their social power is by proxy. It's probably my favourite out of the Second Skins, so I would probably term it as a "good tantrum skin." I am coincidentally almost done a writeup for The Muse, and will be posting that up later tonight.
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Dec 22, 2014 23:19
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Yea Wyrm is pretty great for the trope of 'cool and in control manipulator who just LOSES THEIR poo poo when things go bad'. If I remember right it's a pretty solid skin all in all, too.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:04
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  The Muse So, like I said before -- sexy teenage phantom of the opera. You’re a prodigy of some kind, incredibly gifted in a certain kind of performance or art. But you’ve got some kind of disability or fatal flaw that prevents you from actually doing this thing, so… you’re going to become someone else’s weird creepy stalker and push them to achieve the greatness you deserve, living vicariously through them. I can get behind the “weird stalker” thing, although I think some of the core skins already tackle that kind of fixation from a few different angles. At the same time, literally trying to be the Phantom kind of makes it not work as well, because rather than also being a monster or something… you’re also basically a helicopter parent/washed up dancing coach whose self esteem is based on the success of someone else? It just doesn’t work very well, because that doesn’t feel like the kind of problem that a teenager is going to have. The actual mechanics are a mixed bag. In general, they’re better than almost everything else in this collection, and mostly deliver on the kind of play that the skin’s concept/play advice suggests, but they’re definitely rough around the edges in a lot of places, and outright bad in a couple. In order to actually talk about this skin, I’m going to have to point out what the biggest flaw in the way I’ve been writing about the previous ones has been -- I’ve been omitting the Backstory section. The Backstory section is where you’re told to pick some people around the table to have pre-existing relationships with. Primarily, it’s just the way that you dole out starting strings, so I just kind of figured it wouldn’t be that important to cover. What I failed to recognise, though, is that for a couple skins, Backstory is super important and it forms the character’s primary motivation. For example, the Chosen’s enemy is handled in that section, rather than with a move. Likewise, the Muse has a “protogé” -- which is a character you name when you’re handing out backstory strings. They’re really important for how your skin actually functions. You start out with three strings on your protogé, and they start with one on you. As with most backstory strings, they can theoretically be an NPC or a PC… but it’s almost never a good idea to make them an NPC. You also pick someone else who you’ve been spying on, and take another string on them. Before you pick your Origin, you need to Pick a Virtuoso Skill from a long list of talents including “creating visual art”, “performing one style of music or dance”, and “playing one sport.” All of the Muse origins are based around why you can’t do the poo poo you you’re amazing at for yourself. “Terrible accident” and “targeted by a rival” imply a physical disability, “crippling insecurity” implies that you’re just suffering from extreme social anxiety, and “Faustian bargain” that your situation is literally the result of a deal with the devil or something. The Muse’s good stats are Cold and Dark, and their bad ones are Hot and Volatile. This is the same loadout that skins like The Witch and the Ghost have -- I’ve referred to them as “specialist stats” in the past, because they lock you out of using most of the proactive basic moves with any effectiveness, so they’re usually about working around those with magic or other special abilities. This is a pretty good fit for someone like The Muse, who needs to live through a secret identity and a protogé. Skin Moves You start out with Masked Angel, Catacombs and one other skin move of your choice: Masked Angel When you’re wearing a mask, no one can recognise you. If you spend a scene training your protogé in whatever your virtuoso skill is while wearing a mask, you take a string on them. The next time they perform that skill in public, they do it so awesomely and like, waaay better than they normally could have or something. So, this move is like phantom of the opera crossed with Tuxedo Mask. Which leads to me spending way too much time thinking about how you could use this skin to play as a Tuxedo Mask rip off, which is amusing but genre ruining. Anyway, this is not a terrible move; people not being able to recognise you with your mask on is important. I don’t know if literally just saying “no one can recognise you unless you take it off” is the most interesting way to go about it, though. Second Skins has The Cuckoo, which is a shapeshifting doppelganger -- they have a move that means that pretty much any PC can choose to see through their disguise any time they start to act suspicious… but at the cost of the PC doing the illusion-breaking taking harm. Because the illusion is sharp, and will cut whoever’s looking too closely when it shatters (yes, really). So what that does is create this narrative where it’s possible to find the Cuckoo out if you need to, but people aren’t going to do it all the time at the drop of a hat. While it would make a lot more sense to make it harder to unmask the Muse than just going “wait, that looked like Denny!”, I wish there were like… more of a mechanic in place. Unmasking the Muse should feel important/climactic, but it should also happen. So there should be a thing in place to make sure it happens. As for the rest of the move, in order for this skin to work on any level, “training” scenes like the one this move describes must take place. When they happen, the Muse gets leverage on the person they’re stalking, and the protogé gets to be awesome at this particular skill. The presence of the Muse means that whatever the virtuoso skill is is probably going to be a big deal, story wise -- if their skill is acting, then the MC is more or less required to try to work in a school play subplot (why have I never been in a Monsterhearts game with a school play subplot? gently caress homecoming dances, that sounds amazing). So… while intangible, “they do this one skill really well when they let this creepy masked kid train them” is probably of material benefit to the protogé. Catacombs You’ve got a secret lair under your school with like, lots of secret entrances that only you know about. If you’re at school and you roll to Run Away, you can treat a “6-9” as a 10+, but whoever is chasing you becomes aware that the catacombs exist. So… if you’re adding a consequence like that, it is not a 10+. What this move should really do is something like… add one to run away rolls made at school, add “someone becomes aware that the catacombs exist” as a 7-9 option. The 6-9 thing is a little weird, but I take it that that is a roundabout way to grant the Muse a +1 rather than a typoed “7-9”. Since, you know, their Volatile sucks without something to compensate for it. This is more or less workable, but described in the most awkward way possible. Don Juan Triumphant When you’re performing you virtuoso skill, you can use Cold to make Turn Someone On and Manipulate an NPC rolls. You take an additional +1 if you’re performing for your protogé So at first, I thought “well, if they need to like, be playing a grand piano or something, then maybe it’s not so bad that this stat swaps for both Hot moves.” Then I remembered the actual tone of most Monsterhearts games and reconsidered that. Because, like, if your Virtuoso skill is singing, then you can ignore your lovely Hot stat entirely if you just go around obnoxiously singing the chorus from random pop songs, or quoting Shakespeare inappropriately if your thing is acting. Even if you did pick something like piano playing, then there’s nothing to stop you from whipping out your iPhone and booting up one of the many keyboard aps that exist. Bonus points if you actually do that at the table when you’re using this move. Now, these are all things which could be hilarious in the right circumstances, but they probably should not give you that sweeping an advantage. I also can’t help but feel that this should let you roll Dark to Turn Someone On instead of Cold -- The Ghoul already has a move that lets you Turn Someone On with Cold, and it would reinforce the idea that your talents are somewhat uncanny or borderline supernatural. The additional +1 to turning on your protogé pushes this over the top -- that should be part of a different move. This isn’t nearly as bad as the Mummy’s Royal Decree, since it actually has patterns of behaviour that specifically trigger it, but you’re still basically cramming at least two move’s worth of bonuses into this thing. O.G. I really hope I’m not missing a Phantom of the Opera reference here and this is literally just a move called “Original Gangster.” Anyway, when you send a threatening or blackmailing note to someone you have at least one string on, you get a +1 to Shut Them Down even if you’re not in the scene when they read the note. Texting someone from an unknown number or leaving creepy threatening notes in their locker is definitely a thing that the Muse should be able to do. I’m just not sure that Shut Someone Down is the right move to do it with -- Shut Someone Down is primarily a defencive/responsive move that triggers when someone says or does something you don’t like. Doing it anonymously also gets weird when it can result in things like you getting a condition, or losing a string on the target, because even if the masked weirdo who lives under the gym now has the “Psychostalker” condition, it doesn’t actually make sense for Denny from band class to also have it since no one knows Denny is the one who sent the note. This move should either do something to address those problems, or just divorce itself from Shut Someone Down. Grasshopper or Scorpion? When you put your protogé in a position where they need to choose between spending time you or another interest or relationship, they choose one from the following list:
First of all, since Monsterhearts is not a game with a skill system, I don’t know what carrying 1 forward toward this performance is going to do, unless they’re going to like… try to turn it into a Turn On/Manipulate roll or whatever against someone in particular (“I Shut Him Down by challenging him to a dance off!”). Masked Angel didn’t describe any sort of roll associated with your protogé using you Virtuoso skill, so this is kind of confusing the mechanics a bit. Basically, though, this is a move where your protogé chooses between placating their weird stalker or going to go do something fun and risking said weird stalker showing up to like, try and break their boyfriend’s leg. Appropriate insofar as supporting the skin’s concept goes. Judas Hole If you are in your Catacombs and spy on someone through a secret peep hole, you take a string on them. You take an additional string on them if they’re your protogé. This is… kind of more similar to the Ghost’s Creep move than I’m comfortable with -- that one specifies that you need to be spying on someone sleeping or showering or whatever, rather than the actual method you spy with, but there’s just too much overlap. Enforcing the idea that you’ve got little spy holes and poo poo all over the school is a good idea, but it should do something other than give you strings on people. Punjab Lasso Oh good, another stat swap move. If you spend a scene setting up an elaborate trap, you get to roll with Dark instead of Volatile to Lash Out Physically against whoever comes into it. Your Catacombs are always considered to be trapped. I think I like the idea of this. Although necessitating someone to spend an entire scene alone rigging up trip wires or whatever is a little boring. It’s a cool idea, in that it lets the Muse like… attack someone moving in on their protogé without actually having to do it personally. Toccata and Fugue When your protogé discovers your secret identity for the first time, you mark experience. they can either choose to stick with you, or to abandon you. If they abandon you, they mark experience, you pick a new protogé, and your carry 1 forward harming the old one. If they choose to stick with you, they don’t actually get anything aside from you not trying to kill them. At which point this move becomes completely useless. So, this move actually does give you a reason to try and reveal your secret identity, but only to your protogé. And like I said, if they don’t choose to abandon you at that point, you’ve gotten a one-off experience bonus… but then you literally can’t do anything else with the move after that point, because it specifically says when your protogé finds out for the first time. So if at any point someone you’re training elects not to ditch you permanently, you have pretty much wasted an advancement on this move that now does nothing. You can do a bit more with your Sex Move, but that’s not going to be enough to justify this move’s existence. This is also the only mechanic by which your main protogé can stop being your protogé -- you’re not given any option to pick another. The rest of the move is okay -- the main downside is that it presents a choice, and then completely falls apart if someone chooses a certain way. Sex Move If you have sex with your protogé, they can act like they have your Catacombs move until one of you has sex with someone else. If you have sex with someone who is not your protogé, you can treat them as if they were a second protogé until either of you have sex with someone else. The first part is kind of interesting, although it is tied to the awkwardly-worded Catacombs move. I don’t know how that’s going to work if you have sex with your protogé as yourself and not as your masked stalker alter-ego, though -- or why they’d just suddenly lose access to the Catacombs if they cheat on you. The second just makes things weird. Having multiple protogés makes the whole situation way more complicated and I don’t know how you reconcile it with the premise of your Darkest Self. Also… if you have sex with someone who is not your protogé, then have sex with that person again, I guess they can also get the Catacombs benefit? Darkest Self The only one who understands “your genius and your toment” is your protogé, so you kidnap them and take them down to your lair and make it clear that they are going to spend the rest of their life with you, perfecting your Virtuoso skill and making you happy. You destroy anyone who tries to get in your way. You can only leave your Darkest Self when your actions cause your protogé to be harmed. Only one person in all the world gets you! … oh, other than that vampire chick you got with the other day. I guess you just pick one, or only go for your original protogé instead of one resulting from your sex move? The skin doesn’t say. I think we all saw this narrative coming for the Darkest Self, though, since this is a Phantom of the Opera skin. Nothing too unexpected here. Reminds me a bit too much of The Creature’s Darkest self, if you’ll think back that far. Other Stuff The Muse’s gang advancement is Secret Minions. Which is incredibly vague, but I still kind of like it. I hope they also get capes and domino masks to match yours. At first, I was ready to say “actually, this might be the best skin in this whole collection, mechanically,” before I realised that… the only way to name someone as a protogé is through your backstory strings and your sex move. Which no other skin has access to beyond, like… the Hollow mimicking your sex move. So, there are a number of moves here which are absolutely 100% worthless for other skins to try to take, in a way that goes well beyond even other Skins for the Skinless entries like The Beast -- there, at least, you can get access to the other Beast moves by first taking their starting move (you know, if you hate you or anyone else at your table having fun). No option for that here! If you’ll take a look at the official skins that establish an important relationship with the Backstory section -- such as The Chosen, or the Wyrm -- the moves they have which work off of those relationships never specifically name those relationships by name. So, other skins can still make use of Wyrm moves even though they don’t have Treasures, as they only talk about “people you covet” and poo poo like that in the actual move texts, whereas The Muse’s moves frequently talk about your protogé directly. Next Time: The Proxy -- The other mask wearing pop culture reference.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:26
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Halloween Jack posted:The Ancient The really hilarious bit is that you can spin "Lovecraftian god" to teenager metaphor; the Complete Outsider. They enter at the exact bottom of the social hierarchy because they've never been a part of it, maybe they were at a much different school or even homeschooled for much of their childhood. This is obviously a bad thing, but the thing is that the Outsider understands how ridiculous the whole dance is. They're something alien to the social web, something who can examine it clinically and guess at who people actually are beyond its bounds, and that scares the social web. Yes, this also means the Lovecraftian God is the sane Skin. Darkest Self could easily be losing patience with the whole thing combined with feelings of worthlessness from how it's affected them anyway, focused into tearing apart social bonds and identities (which may or may not involve whispering forbidden knowledge into the ears of the cheerleading squad, more likely switching incriminating items around).
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Dec 23, 2014 02:06
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Gazetteer posted:Punjab Lasso I notice this has the same problem as O.G. - if you get a 7-9 on Lash Out Physically, how do you explain the consequence you select? You're not in the scene or directly attacking them, so they can't harm you back. Getting a string on you doesn't work since presumably they don't know who did it. I guess going into Darkest Self could work, maybe? I dunno though.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:08
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Erebro posted:The really hilarious bit is that you can spin "Lovecraftian god" to teenager metaphor; the Complete Outsider. They enter at the exact bottom of the social hierarchy because they've never been a part of it, maybe they were at a much different school or even homeschooled for much of their childhood. This is obviously a bad thing, but the thing is that the Outsider understands how ridiculous the whole dance is. They're something alien to the social web, something who can examine it clinically and guess at who people actually are beyond its bounds, and that scares the social web. Serious - this is actually a good skin concept. Think Mean Girls only Lohan's character didn't get caught up in the social bullshit. If I actually knew how to make skins, I'd slam something out along those lines. Call it the Deep One or Yith Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 02:27
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Heliotrope posted:I notice this has the same problem as O.G. - if you get a 7-9 on Lash Out Physically, how do you explain the consequence you select? You're not in the scene or directly attacking them, so they can't harm you back. Getting a string on you doesn't work since presumably they don't know who did it. I guess going into Darkest Self could work, maybe? I dunno though. That's a very good point. I hadn't considered that -- Lash Out Physically kind of assumes that both parties are present.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:28
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Erebro posted:The really hilarious bit is that you can spin "Lovecraftian god" to teenager metaphor; the Complete Outsider. They enter at the exact bottom of the social hierarchy because they've never been a part of it, maybe they were at a much different school or even homeschooled for much of their childhood. This is obviously a bad thing, but the thing is that the Outsider understands how ridiculous the whole dance is. They're something alien to the social web, something who can examine it clinically and guess at who people actually are beyond its bounds, and that scares the social web. You could also call this skin the Zim and be basically right.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:28
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Erebro posted:The really hilarious bit is that you can spin "Lovecraftian god" to teenager metaphor; the Complete Outsider. They enter at the exact bottom of the social hierarchy because they've never been a part of it, maybe they were at a much different school or even homeschooled for much of their childhood. This is obviously a bad thing, but the thing is that the Outsider understands how ridiculous the whole dance is. They're something alien to the social web, something who can examine it clinically and guess at who people actually are beyond its bounds, and that scares the social web. Holy crap, that is a wonderful skin idea, and somebody should try drawing it up.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:31
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Gazetteer posted:if their skill is acting, then the MC is more or less required to try to work in a school play subplot (why have I never been in a Monsterhearts game with a school play subplot? gently caress homecoming dances, that sounds amazing). I've no idea - everything from the backstabbing auditions to the star-crossed lovers who are paired up with the wrong people is great. If set in Britain, a Christmas pantomime rather than a normal play works even better - with little things like automatic cross-dressing (it's what passes for childrens' entertainment in Britain - and was a definite influence on Rocky Horror). Or for Shakespeare fans, Twelfth Night and The Taming of the Shrew both work well depending on the tone of the game. Just a warning - the play is about as likely to actually happen without fairly severe editing as a party is to reach the end without cops being called.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:58
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Gazetteer posted:O.G. "O.G." (for Opera Ghost) is how the Phantom signed his notes to the opera management. I guess it looked better than signing them T.P.o.t.O.
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Dec 23, 2014 03:33
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That is, in retrospect, an incredibly obvious reference and I think I feel kind of silly for missing it.
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Dec 23, 2014 03:47
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