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Siivola posted:A tinpipe is tough enough to hike with and also handy for signaling for help if you end up in an emergency. Kantele is probably on the big side but thanks for mentioning it. Currently listening to a bunch of people playing it and it sounds quite nice.
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Dec 28, 2014 15:51
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IslamoNazi posted:Also, I'm open to suggestions of other instruments that could be taken on multi day hikes (when I'm most likely to want to use it). The blues harp is a classic for this purpose!
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Dec 28, 2014 16:22
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IslamoNazi posted:Also, I'm open to suggestions of other instruments that could be taken on multi day hikes (when I'm most likely to want to use it). Generic advice: Try ebay, craigslist, pawn establishments, thrift stores and your local music stores. Sometimes you can find real gems without having to ship them in. Legwork is all it takes. I'm going to second a tin whistle here. If you have a music store somewhere nearby, just go there. They are almost sure to have one for quite cheap. Pretty darn light and very small. I'm not sure I'd go on a trip without a dedicated signalling whistle, but in a pinch this could do as a backup. I will admit that I have mixed feelings about the songbird ocarina that you linked. It has 6 holes, which means it is going to have non-trivial fingering. Great for being compact, but not so great if you want to pick something up that is easy/intuitive. I'd suggest a 10 or 12 hole ocarina, if the ease of playing is important. It also seems to be made from clay. I'd avoid clay ocarinas on a long trip, but then again I'm a terrible klutz. What appeals to you in that instrument? I can dig up some good alternatives, if you like. Generic advice: If you want a really good ocarina, go with a Night by Noble, 50$ shipped to non-US, I believe. Beautiful instrument. Plastic, so you don't have to baby it too much on a hike. Sounds better than a lot of clay ones though. Other good option is a Focalink, but I have no idea as far as the pricing/shipping goes. One downside of a Night by Noble is the weight. It isn't the lightest thing out there, easily over 100g. Some people find it shrill too. Mountain ocarinas are quite compact, have intuitive fingering and I think they may be lighter. They don't sound quite like other ocarinas though. Shipping will be expensive, from what I recall. You used to be able to get those through Susato for cheap shipping, but not anymore. The guy who makes them is into hiking big time, and it seems to work very well for him. As suggested before: Harmonica. I personally don't care for them, but they are a classic for long trips. Comedy DIY option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XizHVnPEjwg Yes, it sounds and handles like absolute poo poo, but it does (in theory) fold up and will set you back only the price of some card stock. Don't do this under any circumstances except for a laugh. Hmm... This really makes me wonder about a "travel" end blown flute... Gotta investigate how well that works.
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Dec 29, 2014 00:05
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IslamoNazi posted:So you freaks have made me decide to buy a small instrument to play when I'm out in the bush and I'm thinking an ocarina is going to be the way to go. If you're actually carrying it around in the rough, and where weight matters, I would definitely not get a ceramic ocarina, as there's danger of that breaking. Basically any string instrument is bulkier and more fragile than you want for hiking, unless you have a really strong desire for strings. Like if someone is a dedicated guitarist I could see taking a small polymer ukulele along on a day hike, or while out sailing or kayaking, but I wouldn't go out of my way to choose any such thing for traveling light on foot. I would tend to avoid percussion just because you can improvise decent percussion with stuff laying around if you must. To one degree I thought a really small thumb piano could be kinda cool, but the downside of those is the tines kinda protrude and it takes some care to pack it in a way that doesn't make it bulky, nor inclined to tangle on things and bend a tine. So that puts us pretty squarely in the winds camp for the vast majority of likely options. I would avoid ceramics, and to a degree even metal or wood if you want something that's hardcore durable. And I'd incline to favor things that are either pretty small, or can be disassembled. Here are a few good ones that jump to mind that are compact, durable, and good quality but not too pricey: - Any of the plastic multi-piece tin wistles. A wood one could crack, a metal one could dent, so I'd favor plastic. Parks Whistles "Walkabout" model are great, designed for backpacking in the Florida Everglades swamps. Break down into three pieces, makes a package a little bigger than a pack of cigarettes. Lightweight, waterproof, etc. and they have a little "tone ring" that can be used to adjust the volume if you want to play quietly. They're $60 in either black or white PVC, and for $10 he has a uber-light nylon case for it designed for backpacking. - If you're less interested in playing specific melodies, and want an instrument that's really easy to improvise on, more meditative, etc., there are also PVC and ABS models of the Native American flute, and the Japanese shakuhachi. Both play pentatonic scales (the "can't possible sound bad on this") tuning, but NAF is foolproof to blow into, while shakuhachi takes a little practice to get the blow angle right, but that gives you more expressiveness once you get it right. The downside is that I'm not personally aware of examples of these which break down into segments, so you're looking at a 2-foot long instrument, but it's entirely possible if you contact one of the small makers and ask nice, they can make you a segmented one with an eye towards packability/durability. I think this is overkill, but a guy on one site made one for a nephew deploying to Afghanistan, with a survival kit built into it:  If you decide you're keen on NAF or shakuhachi, let me know and I can help figure out how to get the most backpackable one. - If you're going ocarina, I'd pick an "inline" vs "transverse" design. That is, one that's a straight line rather than has that spur sticking out, to make it easier to pack and avoid having a breakable protrusion. I know you've seen the Mountain Ocarina ones and wanted something maybe nicer to justify shipping, but maybe you could get a couple to give as gifts, or go in with a couple other musicians to have some mailed to Oz? - If you want something like tinwhistle but more classical and mellower, a recorder would be cool, but I don't really see any designed to break down small (though plenty of good plastic ones). Then I remembered an instrument that's a hybrid between recorder and ocarina, pretty cool, and indestructible, so a Susato gemshorn might be a fun option. It's a plastic instrument designed to imitate the traditional medieval ones made out of a horn:  So those are my main recommendations, any of those appealing to you?
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Dec 29, 2014 00:31
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Thanks for the amazing info guys. You're definitely right about ceramic being a bad idea. That Park Whistle is crazy small / light it's pretty hard to pass up on 36 grams for an instrument. The only thing would push towards an ocarina is they just sound so cool and ethereal. The NAF really has that going on too. Digging into the weight of those Mountains Ocarinas shows they come in pretty light too so grabbing a couple of them and sucking up shipping doesn't seem like a bad idea. Polycarbonate G: 48 grams; 1.7 oz Polycarbonate C: 68.0 grams; 2.4 oz
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Dec 29, 2014 01:08
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IslamoNazi posted:Thanks for the amazing info guys. You're definitely right about ceramic being a bad idea. Parks is a pretty optimal backpacking instrument, it's mainly just a question of whether you like the tone of a tinwhistle, and if you like some of the many kinds of music it plays well with. If you like Irish traditional tunes, Celtic-y stuff in general, it's a great option. That said, learning to play Irish dance tunes isn't hard per se, but it does involve having to actually sit down and carefully listen to things, practice playing slowly along with YouTube clips, stuff like that until you get a few tunes down. Ocarina or recorder similarly. That's the advantage of NAF or shakuhachi, that they're just really easy to noodle around on while still sounding good, though they can play more precise things once you get more skilled. What's I'd really love to see for backpacking is something basically a cross between a Parks whistle and the high octave 9" long High A flutes that High Spirits makes:  So something like this but made out of PVC; it'd be a somewhat wider diameter of PVC because an A is a fourth below the common D tinwhistle. And having a really low-profile windblock on the top rather than the more ornate ones. I've spoken w/ Parks before, so if you look over all the options and think a small breakdown NAF would suit you best, let me know and I can ping him to ask if he might be interested in whipping up a prototype. Otherwise a standard Walkabout Parks, or a Mountain Ocarina, would be very likely to do you right. If you do get a Parks (or something from a small individual maker) and want to maximize on shipping, you could always ask the small maker if he's cool with you having a couple small ocarinas or whatever mailed to his house, so that when he mails you the tinwhistle he can chuck in your ocarinas too so you can get all your international stuff in one package. If you do so, for kicks see if you can get one or a few of the really inexpensive little neck-pendant Susato ocarinas, they're like $6 and make fun gifts, or something casual you can carry in your pocket or chucked into your messenger bag in town.  Glad to hear we're on the right track. A small synthetic wind instrument makes a very welcome travel companion indeed. I've taken my Parks to a number of places, and I barely notice I have it in a coat pocket or on my belt. EDIT: If you like the Parks, but want something a little lower pitched, he makes an "Alto" whistle, also available in breakdown Walkabout setup. It'll be a little larger and pricier, but a little more mellow and lower. The Alto is also the same pitch that the small 9" NAF would be, so that gives you some idea of pitch. Here's a guy playing a "pocket" NAF in A, so I'm imagining something exactly like this in PVC, if a maker could be convinced to knock some out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX9-x04JlrU TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 02:06
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My new toy, atop a piece of music that no, I can't actually just pick up and sight read, as it turns out:
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Dec 29, 2014 18:12
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I am trying to decide between two dulcimers right now the first and the second. The Thomann website says that the second would need "appropriate" strings for dadd tuning, but not which strings would work. Is the scale length so unusual, or do they just come with the wrong strings for the tuning? I prefer the look of the first dulcimer, but there is a chance that the person I will gift this to gives up pretty soon (first instrument ever). In that case I would like to be able to convert it for lefty use, and that looks to be alot more complicated with the first instrument. Does anyone in Europe have experience with one of these?
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Dec 30, 2014 23:30
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I haven't seen that brand before. But a few things I do know - you can probably tune up to D-a-d-d without breaking the strings, and if you do break them, well, you bought a couple of spare sets anyway, right? You're going to have to get a new nut (and maybe a bridge) to switch either of those to left-handed - planning to make them yourself? I see what you mean about the first instrument though, you might want a new pin to receive the second melody string. But you might could also use loop-end strings and put two on one pin, like with the other one.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:36
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Oh, I did not notice the different strings. Well that makes the decision easier...thank you! I think neither are particularly great instruments, but there is not really a used marked for mountain dulcimers in Germany.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:48
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If this is in your budget and they ship to you, I can recommend these unreservedly: http://www.mcspaddendulcimers.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=4072 Still has all the challenges with changing handedness though.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:52
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Thank you, we do have a mc spadden distributor. But I think that price range would be the next step up...this is more of a test for now.
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Dec 31, 2014 00:05
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Hotzenplotz posted:I am trying to decide between two dulcimers right now the first and the second. Wait, what am I missing that's different between the two models that would make left-handifying notably harder? Mainly it looks like one has a mandolin-style tailpiece (a kinda odd choice aesthetically) and the other the more traditional pins, but I don't see those as huge impediments to switching handedness. While making a new nut and bridge is an option (and not particularly hard), I'd check first to see if there's enough space to just cut some extra slots in the nut and bridge and see how that goes. So far as strings, any strings that can do CGc can do DAd just fine, so I think Thomann just got confused there. There are different strings sets sold for DAA and DAd, though most DAA sets should be able to tune up to DAd just fine, as steel strings have a pretty wide usable range. The advantage of DAA string sets is that though they might be a little firm on DAd, they can play all the middle tunings like DAc, DAa, and DAG just fine, while a DAd set might have more trouble tuning down as low as DAG. If you're playing dulcimer in one of the styles that stays almost entirely in DAD and uses capos and extra frets to modify key, DAd strings are good, but if you're doing traditional "retune the instrument to play in different keys" than a DAA set is arguably more flexible. FAKEEDIT: cool pic of a Norwegian plucked dulcimer: 
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Dec 31, 2014 18:19
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The difference is that on the first there is a separate pin (probably not the right name) for each string, and for the double string these pins are closer. But I think that should not really be that big of a deal after all. I will look a bit more into tunings. So many options!
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Jan 1, 2015 18:11
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Might be a long shot, but... Is there somewhere out there available a free DIY guide to making zithers?
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Jan 2, 2015 00:07
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No Gravitas posted:Might be a long shot, but... Gotta narrow it down, homeslice. Are we talking fretted zithers (Appalachian dulcimer, German scheitholt, French epinette), any of the long Asian zithers (koto, qin), unfretted/unstopped things like psalteries, etc? Give a little specifics and it's way easier to help find plans. While on zithers, Jim Binkley up in Portland (OR) makes and plays the qin, and his work and music are just gorgeous. Really worth playing his whole YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA8Wzp2Z7Q0 
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Jan 2, 2015 01:02
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Heh. All right. I will be modding the hell out of the plans anyway, but a good starting point is a plucked psaltery. I'm aiming for three octaves and pentatonic (in some strange pentatonic scale, of course), so this will be fairly different from anything that you can get off-the-shelf. Thanks!
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Jan 2, 2015 01:14
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Ocarina megapost drat you, anyway! I just ordered another one, and not exactly a cheap one either. The focalink double is nice, but a bit wonky in the second chamber.
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Jan 8, 2015 05:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45m0TkLpmQg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_LW-eUYt7Y quote:Yaybahar is an electric-free, totally acoustic instrument designed by Gorkem Sen. The vibrations from the strings are transmitted via the coiled springs to the frame drums. These vibrations are turned into sound by the membranes which echo back and forth on the coiled springs. This results in an unique listening experience with an hypnotic surround sound. This is astonishing, my brain can barely comprehend how something acoustic can be making those noises.I'm stunned. I want one.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:46
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Blue Star Error posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45m0TkLpmQg I can't find the name right now, but in the famous Gravikords, Pyrophones and Whirligigs album of the mid-1990s, big compilation of weird experimental instruments, there was one track/chapter on this artist (Turkish? Armenian?) who found a dead tree about 20' long, and strung wires between all the branches and plays it as a huge harp of random pitches. That's what this reminds me of. If anyone ever runs across the Gravikords, etc. book/CD, or its sequel Orbitones, Spoon Harps & Bellowphones , it's an amazing read. It's less a CD with massive liner notes and more a book with a CD demo'ing the concepts. I have mine in storage at my other apartment, now that I think about it I'll have to dig that out for the first time in 20 years and take a good look at it again. In other heartwarming news, I was helping my girlfriend Craigslist her furniture before she moves overseas, and I had a couple dulcimers at her place that I was selling. One of her neighbors bought one for her brother, and now after the holidays is trying to buy more from me since her brother found it so fascinating. So chalk up another convert. Actually a couple converts, since another of her friends bought a dulcimer for herself when she was over for a party and saw it leaning against the wall, and a friend of hers wants one for her brother in law who's a schoolteacher. Spreading a lot of dulcimer love here in DC. EDIT: Found the tree guy, it's Nazim Özel:  quote:This current version of the instrument is about six feet high, six feet wide, and twelve feet long. There are currently close to 800 strings on it ranging from half an inch to ten feet in length, with the potential to add as many strings again as the instrument continues to take shape. Nazim sounds the strings in many ways, including various techniques for plucking, bowing and striking. He has also developed a range of techniques to bring out variety and changeability in the string sounds, creating timbral shifts and pitch bends to impart a living, organic quality to the instrument. Wind effects are finding their way into the instrument, and techniques for self-sustaining or repeating sounds based in slower oscillatory motions appear as well. Variety of sound, rather than uniformity or predictability, is the aim. There's also a guy named Diego Stocco who seems to do similar with live trees: http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/diego-stocco-music-from-a-tree https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY-ZoVMwGKM TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jan 17, 2015 |
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Jan 17, 2015 22:19
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So, after a few months of waiting, the aulos I ordered arrived today. It's a beautiful instrument, and I wish I had more experience with double-reed instruments so that I could really make it sing. It's a crazy experience, playing two pipes at once. Only played it with my plastic reeds so far - don't feel confident in trying the cane reeds quite yet, but drat, this is a wonderful instrument. I'll post pictures as soon as I find my drat camera.
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Feb 2, 2015 22:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhLfLjkYWkQ A bones player in this thread should ape this with a gourd or gascan banjo player. Barefeet mandatory.
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Feb 4, 2015 18:16
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I am looking to give someone a weird musical instrument as a gift. I'd like to keep it on the cheap side since we don't really go all out on gifts and I don't want to seem super ostentatious or anything. I know she has an interest in balalaikas, but there doesn't seem to be much of a cheap option there. Any other Russian/Eastern European follk instruments that might be available cheaply?
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Feb 8, 2015 16:06
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Domra! A four-string domra is just a mandolin with single strings. Same tuning, same pitches, same quality of sound. Where a mandolin has double string for a shimmery sound, the four-string domra is a bit simpler and clearer. Ebay has decent used ones in Europe for basic mandolin pricing. A mandolin instruction manual or tutor will also easily be able to teach her. The three-string domra is slightly more traditional with a unique tuning for a neat sound. Also available at decent prices but not quite as common on the used market to ship stateside. Either is smaller, cheaper, and easier to get than a balalaika. But you should go full retard and comission a bass balalaika for her, pay the  shipping, and have her found a street band with it 
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Feb 9, 2015 03:08
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TopherCStone posted:I am looking to give someone a weird musical instrument as a gift. I'd like to keep it on the cheap side since we don't really go all out on gifts and I don't want to seem super ostentatious or anything. I know she has an interest in balalaikas, but there doesn't seem to be much of a cheap option there. Any other Russian/Eastern European follk instruments that might be available cheaply? What does she play currently, and how cheap are you looking at? Domra is an interesting suggestion, by only caveat would be to buy from a seller who is music-knowledgeable and can guarantee an instrument in playable condition, not just a "found it in a closet and looks great to me, sounds nice!" which could easily mean the neck is warped and action terrible. Buying from just a generic dealer in old stuff would be a roll of the dice. Kinda same issue with balalaikas: there are tons of old used ones floating around cheap, but you'd really need to have someone who knows string instruments go over one to ensure the neck is good, joints stable, action right. Brand new domra, Bulgarian tamboura, and other such things aren't terrible expensive, like $265 on this site, but that's still not like novelty-gift inexpensive for most people. Are wind instruments an option? There are several Eastern European flute-type instruments. In particular, the dvoyanka is really cool, almost like an inexpensive/tiny/mellow bagpipe, and isn't hard to find online from reputable music dealers. It's kind of between a wooden tinwhistle and a Native American drone-flute. Clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaJg7gasCIQ  Also, how Slavic-y does it have to be? Like is she playing in a specifically Russian type musical environment, or just likes Russian music and anything that scratches that itch would be good? The Strumstick is vaguely balalaika-esque, costs $169 or less brand new from a reputable maker, and is really easy to play, popular total-noob instrument:  If she's new to music, or wants something strings but unlike common guitar-type stuff, the Finnish kantele is almost the same thing as a Russian gusli. Kantele aren't too expensive, $150 for a brand-new handmade one in the US, and if you're in Europe you might be able to find small used ones even cheaper online. For a real novice, and/or someone wanting a low-intensity instrument to zen out on, it'd be hard to beat a 5-string kantele. Here's its Russian close cousin:  Those are just a few ideas that jump out at me. Let me know how these compare to what you're imagining in terms of style, price, playability. And let us know how hardcore-Russian things must be, or just "Russian-ish if you squint", and what her music background is.
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Feb 9, 2015 03:40
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She is mostly a vocalist (went to school for it), she has a Guitalele (not sure how much use it sees), and I think some basic piano experience. The more Russian the better in this case, it's sort of a recurring theme. The dvoyanka looks pretty cool and seems to be in about the right price range. I don't want to ignite a gifting war or anything with this 
TopherCStone fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Feb 9, 2015 |
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Feb 9, 2015 21:43
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TopherCStone posted:She is mostly a vocalist (went to school for it), she has a Guitalele (not sure how much use it sees), and I think some basic piano experience. The more Russian the better in this case, it's sort of a recurring theme. The dvoyanka looks pretty cool and seems to be in about the right price range. I don't want to ignite a gifting war or anything with this Dvoyanka is technically more Bulgarian and thereabouts, but there are pretty similar Russian instruments. If wind instruments are what best fits into your price/size/style range, check out this page all about Russian folk winds: http://people.duke.edu/~ruslan/russwind.html It says the primary trad Russian wind is the zhaleika, basically a folk-clarinet. I dug around a little in Russian site to see what they cost, and just to pick one example (I don't know any of these Russian stores personally) this shop has them for $88 worth of rubles: http://www.ta-musica.ru/jaleyka_pro  - Here's a quick few seconds of zhaleika playing solo by an amateur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcSesYYzKwM - A longer clip by a pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwk7_xEueEM If you get captivated by one of the Russian things, let us know here and I or one of the other Russian-speaking goons can help you find where to buy one. My Russian is terrible these days, but I can read basic things and have overall analyst skills. If you want to get a dvoyanka, the best shop I know is Bulgariana.com , and a few other goons have bought from them and been pleased, including Butch as I recall.
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Feb 10, 2015 05:07
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I have a 13-string gadulka hanging on the wall of my study from bulgariana. The transaction was slow (should not be surprising) and I was more than hapoy with it. Reposting the four-string domra I briefly owned before selling to the goon friend I bought it out from under   E: Topher, TTFA is giving solid advice. But if tour friend sings, does she wamt a string or purcussion instrument to accompany herself? Small woodwinds are cool and more people should play them, but they would compete with ainging for her time. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 05:57
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Butch Cassidy posted:E: Topher, TTFA is giving solid advice. But if tour friend sings, does she wamt a string or purcussion instrument to accompany herself? Small woodwinds are cool and more people should play them, but they would compete with ainging for her time. Hm, I hadn't thought of that. Would either of you know if there's a place in NYC that sells this kind of stuff? That way instead of just surprising her we could go on a trip and pick something out.
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Feb 10, 2015 13:49
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quote:E: Topher, TTFA is giving solid advice. But if tour friend sings, does she wamt a string or purcussion instrument to accompany herself? Small woodwinds are cool and more people should play them, but they would compete with ainging for her time. For song accompaniment, you're largely looking at either strings or free reeds (accordions, etc). We've had a few goons here own small Russian accordions, and while you can sometimes find them cheap, I wouldn't say you can reliably find them, and in good enough condition they don't need repair. Russians do make the same classic "toy accordion" that's mostly made in China these days, and those can be pretty cool and in the $25-35 range, but for those it's really best to buy in person in a place that has a crate-full of them and will let you try them out and choose the best one. If you want really inexpensive, string, and really Russian, there's this omnipresent instrument you see used all the time, the little Russian psaltery (or zither):  Small harps played in the lap, Russians must've made them by the millions because they're everywhere. Normally sold as a educational toy instrument for kids (with accompanying sheets that slide under the strings and show how to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and whatnot). So they're kind of kitschy, but easy to find and cheap. I wouldn't pay more than $20 for one, unless it had really cool Russian artwork that you're set on (some of them do). To shop them, check out these terms on eBay: "russian zither", "russian harp", "russian psaltery", and the very common name "lap harp". And also just try "psaltery" and "zither" to see ones that folks missed. Note that if you get one, you need a "zither tuning wrench", a small L-shaped piece that fits over the top of the pins so you can turn it to tune them. The seller might have the wrench with the instrument, but don't assume it. But you can buy one for like $3 shipped from China, but it'll take a couple weeks, or pay more for one already in the US. Note that those wrenches work for the standard "zither pin" that's kind of a rounded square (like in the top pic), but some of the fancier toy zithers have a different really sharp square peg (like below pic), and I don't know off the top of my head where to find tuning wrenches for those.  --- Here's a video of the very standard cheapie, but played by someone with music skills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lav4aWgUX6g. Note it's a bit high and tinny in tone, but that can add to the ethereal effect. The uploader says he got it for  on Craigslist.---- Here's a video of a nicer/adult version of the same thing, and somewhat larger and lower pitched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpqQW9DfFGg Note that there are serious grown-up Russian zithers (like the gusli) that you can YouTube up. For the cheapest of those though you're looking at least the $200 range or so. Again, no idea where your budget is at, so if you clarify "under $50" or "under $500" that would help narrow this down. TopherCStone posted:Hm, I hadn't thought of that. Would either of you know if there's a place in NYC that sells this kind of stuff? That way instead of just surprising her we could go on a trip and pick something out. I perused through Yelp, trying to pick out the "weird" stores from the ones that sell high-end rock/classical/band stuff, and guitar-focused shops. Music Inn in the West Village looks the most promising for selling funky stuff. Mandolin Brothers down in Staten Island is really cool, but more like way high-end banjos, mandolins, dobros. EDIT: There's a cool Russian gusli on eBay, but turns out you can also just buy it for $129 (and probably $40 shipping from Siberia) on the maker's website: http://khomus.com/string.html They also sell a ton of Siberian-style jawharps and whatnot. And again if a kantele is close enough for jazz (it's pretty similar to the Russian zithers) you can get into one of those for around $150. 
TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 20:27
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Some of the fancier toy zithers have a different really sharp square peg (like below pic), and I don't know off the top of my head where to find tuning wrenches for those. I don't have a zither, but wouldn't a simple pair of pliers work on this?
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Feb 11, 2015 22:22
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No Gravitas posted:I don't have a zither, but wouldn't a simple pair of pliers work on this? Yes, assuming you want to never get it properly in tune and ruin the pegs in the process. The pins are rounded and smooth and a pair of pliers would chew them up before you even got the string to change pitch. I have one of the cheapie kids models that I picked up at a thrift store a couple years back and it's solid as a rock. EDIT: I didn't notice that you were asking about the square pegs. My comment was about the standard round pegs. If the square pegs are the same as the round ones, you'll want to use a socket instead of pliers. If you apply too much up or down force you can strip out the hole and/or bend the peg shaft. BigHustle fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 02:47
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BigHustle posted:Yes, assuming you want to never get it properly in tune and ruin the pegs in the process. The pins are rounded and smooth and a pair of pliers would chew them up before you even got the string to change pitch. Ah, I see. Thanks. Also: Holy poo poo. Trout mask replica avatar.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:33
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I guess some of them work OK, but I have one of those painted kiddie lap harps and it's pretty much impossible to get it in tune. I would recommend getting a lap harp which is not MusicMaker or Nepenenoyka brand if you want one. I have one from Wm. Reed Instruments which I found on eBay, and it's pretty good quality. I use an auto-harp tuner to tune them, which works well.
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Feb 12, 2015 14:28
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Hey all! I'm doing sound design for a Greek play right now and we're looking for something that sounds (in the words of the director) "foreign" without sounding like anything anyone can place. I was leaning towards some kind of tuned percussion like a Hang drum or a Hank drum, but the director ain't digging that and I was wondering if there's anything y'all might throw at me. I'm scanning through the whole thread for interesting youtube links as we speak but would really like some suggestions. Anyone remember what that ceramic-jug that could fill with water to alter its tone was? TTFA demonstrated it once but I can't recall the name.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:10
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Hey all! I'm doing sound design for a Greek play right now and we're looking for something that sounds (in the words of the director) "foreign" without sounding like anything anyone can place. I was leaning towards some kind of tuned percussion like a Hang drum or a Hank drum, but the director ain't digging that and I was wondering if there's anything y'all might throw at me. I'm scanning through the whole thread for interesting youtube links as we speak but would really like some suggestions. Anyone remember what that ceramic-jug that could fill with water to alter its tone was? TTFA demonstrated it once but I can't recall the name. This should be right up Hedningen's line, but I'll give some initial comments: tl;dr: my top recommendation would be some kind of drone or doubled simple wind instrument, backed up by maybe a hand drum. Or if you want less ancient any more just trippy, "prepared guitar" using an acoustic beater, also with some improvised percussion. Can you elaborate a little on what you're looking for, or is it extremely open-ended? If you're going for something spacy/ethereal but also ancient-sounding, the field is pretty open. Does it have to be something played by a single musician, or does a pair or duet work too? How skilled of musicians do you have available? None of my suggestions are terribly complicated for anyone willing to be adventurous, particularly if you're mostly just improvising for background. Is it supposed to be more melodic or more rhythmic, or is either fine? Anything particular about the goal other than just "exotic"? How quick do you need it? Is your budget for an instrument more like $20 or more like $200 (and does that take into account selling the instrument after the show is over)? Udu water pot drum The ceramic pot is an "udu" or "Igbo" drum. I'm not sure if all the ones on the market can have water put inside them safely, but supposedly originally udus were all water pots. I have a fibreglass one by Meinl and tried putting water in it, but I didn't find in my particular case that it made a huge difference, though other folks have gotten good effect from water. But water or no, you can change the pitch/tone of the drum in various ways. They start out pretty cheap indeed, like $60 for a generic ceramic one, and a little over $100 for a fibreglass one. Haunting and easy wind instruments If you need inexpensive, played by one person, and trippy, a number of wind instruments spring to mind. An Armenian duduk is practically the default "sounds exotic" instrument, and gets used in a ton of film soundtracks: Battlestar Galactica, Lord of the Rings, Passion of the Christ, etc. However, I'd break away from that at least slightly for something even easier to play and cheaper. If you want something slightly different and inexpensive/durable, for £85 you can get a plastic pibgorn, the Welsh hornpipe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGLkfXxYU2E That said, personally I think that wind instruments that can harmonize with themselves sound awesome, so if you can get a hold of a plastic alboka (Basque double-hornpipe), those are really haunting and freaky. If you need to get a hold of one, I've been in touch with a maker in Spain who makes plastic ones for like €60 or so. Here's a cool clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL-c50cQotU  If playing reeds is too complicated for y'all, there are a couple fipple drone instruments. There's the dvoyanka I mention above, and you an also home-rig a dvoyanka out of two $10 Irish tinwhistles, something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jras69X1XsQ If you aren't short on musicians, you could also just have the better player do the ocarina melody, and have a second person just hold a drone, or contrasting harmony notes, on a second ocarina; two quality ocarinas would be like $50 total. Lastly, edge-blown flutes are really breathy/airy and manipulable, and you get get a plastic Turkish kaval for like $20, and or cheaply get or make a plastic overtone flute. Here's an example of a kaval: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-poVyvHzPu4 Making a regular guitar sound freaky For strings, the easiest/weirdest options that come to mind would be just doing "extended technique" on a cheap guitar, like set it on the ground by your microphone, tune it to an open tuning like DADGAD and work it by say rubbing the strings with a pencil, smacking them with a plastic ruler, knocking on the head, etc. That would produce avant-gardey grating "noise music" that would sound foreign indeed. Here's some example of "prepared guitar", which means dicking with and tampering with the instrument to get strange sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHDEWItvdWo This clip is a bit more jazzy, but you could easily use the same techniques with different melody to get a more "world music" exotic sound. Cheap improvised percussion If you want to back up any of the above with percussion, I'd just assign someone creative to find a bunch of crap they can smack around rhythmically, some pots and pans and glass jars, heavy books to slap, etc. Be creative with it. Something like this is basically free: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXvpqSEm70Q, but just apply a more "world music" style rather than rock-based. Those are some initial suggestions. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 21:38
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Seconded edge-blown flutes. Cheap to buy, easy to make and you can put any drat set of notes on it. I really have to make some recordings of my backpack-sized, 70 gram "howling demon flute" some day... Also, seconding drones. I have a hulusi, but it is clearly asian sounding. Something else drony is probably great. Fits the greek theme. Alboka seems like a great fit. There was one more similar instrument that was good, I thought. Cannot remember... Also, any gamelan instrument. Can be percussive and I doubt many people had experience of it. Just don't expect it play well with other instruments. Saron, suling, etc...
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Feb 17, 2015 22:02
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Hey all! I'm doing sound design for a Greek play right now and we're looking for something that sounds (in the words of the director) "foreign" without sounding like anything anyone can place. I was leaning towards some kind of tuned percussion like a Hang drum or a Hank drum, but the director ain't digging that and I was wondering if there's anything y'all might throw at me. I'm scanning through the whole thread for interesting youtube links as we speak but would really like some suggestions. Anyone remember what that ceramic-jug that could fill with water to alter its tone was? TTFA demonstrated it once but I can't recall the name. Definitely cool stuff. Which play are you doing? I've been doing some work with a group putting on a version of Euripides' Cyclops, with some mixed success using my säckpipa and aulos - even though the aulos isn't quite in the right range for any of the remnants of theatrical aulos playing for Greek drama. Thankfully, it's a rather truncated version that's a modernized interpretation (sort of Futurist-inspired staging with some significant re-writes as part of an exercise in adapted ancient Greek theatre), so the fact I suck at aulos isn't causing too many problems. Depending on how you're doing the sound design, you've got a lot of options. TTFA really covered a lot of the bases above, and I can recommend any of the double-pipe reed instruments. When working on the design, I recommend remembering to base it around tetrachords and the older tuning variants if you can do some fabrication for instruments or use equipment that can be adjusted in terms of pitch. Part of what can make an instrument sound "correct" for this type of drama is sticking to the right sorts of scales and tuning. If you're looking for non-percussion stuff, then I'm going to be contrary and recommend the duduk - it sounds remarkably similar to the aulos, and if you know anyone with a bit of double-reed experience, then they can pick it up in no time. I had zero experience with double reeds before I bought my aulos, and I'm to the point where I can comfortably perform some simple melodies, in part due to the fact that I'm using a duduk-style reed, which tends to be a lot easier to play than the modern concert double reed, albeit with a little less expressiveness and backpressure. Otherwise, if you're looking at other doubled pipes, find something with a movable drone. If you're doing the sound prep before the show and recording it, rather than requiring live performers or on-stage appearance, then look at some of the stuff by the Lost Sounds Orchestra, who have done some sound modeling to re-create what they think the aulos would have sounded like. I always prefer doing the complex stuff like this before a show, especially if it's merely for color and you don't need to display the musicians, but I also tend to look at these things in terms of the acting, rather than sound design, so I'm not too sure what you're doing. For rhythm, try some simple frame drums along with some more exotic percussion - has your director heard the Hank drum in combination with anything else yet? Sometimes, hearing the instrument solo does no justice for what it can sound like in a small ensemble, especially if you're concentrating on low tones and the feel of things, rather than on highlighting an individual instrument. I'd love to hear more about this. On my end, aulos studies are going well - I'm finally getting the hang of the thumb motion. Unfortunately, one of my pipes is starting to crack due to the lovely dryness of my house, and while it was a relatively cosmetic fix (despite all the love - humidifier in the case, bore swabbed clean after playing, and no going from cold), I've learned that the olive wood used for these pipes apparently isn't super-stable at times. Thankfully, the maker has offered to replace the cracked pipe after seeing a couple pictures and my description of the care that's been going into it, and it's still really playable, so I'm not too worried, but it's a bit annoying to see something so beautiful develop a little cosmetic damage for crap that's pretty much outside of my control.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:41
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I'm doing a production of The Cure At Troy, an Irish translation of Philoctetes. She envisions it as the story of a PTSD-suffering veteran. Philoctetes was poisoned/cursed on the island of Lemnos and left to die by Odysseus and company, who then find out that due to some prophecy or other they cannot win without Philoctetes and his bow. They return to retrieve him and crack open Troy, and Odysseus decides to try to trick Phil into coming with them. She's decided to distance the show from Ireland, Greece, and any specific modern conflict, with a more general focus on warfare throughout the ages and its effect on the psyche. And here's where I get red-faced. I had a meeting with the director tonight and she's decided she wants to scrap her earlier ideas. She wants discordant electric guitar riffs. I'm gonna look up some videos featuring the instruments y'all posted and see if I can get her on board, but I feel like I'mma get overruled, so my hope is I can track down something oddball that fits the bill. One thing she particularly dug from my earlier research was a few riffs from this track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UVPJQeAncA - around ~30 seconds in, near the start of the vocals. The guitar under them particularly interested her. Up to this point (this is my third full sound design), my sound designs have been soundscapes designed to evoke place or feeling without really getting all that musical. But the director really wants music to underscore the Chorus. I have access to a guy who builds and plays weird instruments for a hobby, so if I'm lucky he'll have it or something like it that I can record. Thanks TTFA, No Gravitas, and Hedningen! Sorry to throw a curveball at y'all so soon after asking for help. note for own use: currently reading page 16 Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 08:00
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EDIT: Hedningen, I'm back in contact with that alboka maker, and want to get one now since he can be hard to get a hold of and I don't know if he'll be making them in the future. Do you want to either hold on to mine while I'm out traveling for the forseeable future, and/or go in on a package of two of them to save shipping, and you keep yours and hold on to mine while I'm out bouncing around? Back to theatre. Hmmm, clearly the director's vision will be the final word, but a few thoughts on this one. Now that you've explained a bit more, I get that your goal is not necessarily "ancient" as much as timeless/unplaceable. Not that such necessarily negates the drone ideas, just means that the drones don't have to fake any pseudo-medieval/Arab/ancient riffs. My stance though: the guitar riff you demonstrate kinda defeats the "timeless" motif. It's very much a late-20th C kind of riff. Which is fine if she's okay with that, but I think it being a timeless abstraction is the goal, you can take this other ways. The closest compromise I can think of would be to go along with the electric guitar idea, but instead of just having some indie-rocker buddie strumming along behind the scenes, turn back to the "prepared guitar" idea. You can still integrate the sound of the guitar with the chorus, in terms of holding a key and rhythm they can follow, but by getting away from standard guitar techniques, you can get a more unearthly effect.  I was having trouble finding acoustic prepared guitar examples, but if electric is an option there are tons. Here's a minor amateur example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox5DlBPmt2M You don't necessarily have to get teeth-grating with it, just get away from trying to sound too conventional. And if this sort of thing is getting close to what works, I'd definitely double-down on the improvised percussion, maybe do some circuit-bending experiments, etc. There have to be some experimental music nerds at your school who could fiddle with stuff in the back to get interesting sounds, while still keeping it grounded enough that you can back up the Chorus in a coordinated fashion. 
TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 20:39
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